The union - i want out

[pstylesss]

I'm sick and tired of the step system and I want it changed to a merit system, at least for the IT department (which is negotiated under the machinists union). I talked with HR and there really is no way for me to move to a contract position with the same benefits without the union throwing a fit.

Those of you who have tried something like this, please chime in. There is little chance in voting out the union here because too many people would find themselves on the doorstep, however I think that many people would like a move to a merit system... not sure though.

What tips can you offer in successfully getting your voice heard in a contract negotiation. They negotiate every 3 years and this is tail end of negotiations so I fear it may be too late, however I could get lucky and they might not agree by the 1st of the year and we renegotiate next year.

 

[waggy]

hahah good luck.

very few are going to vote to go to a merit system. far to many have put in the time already.

one of the reasons i hate unions.

but one of the few IT departments that are union heh

 

[meltdown75]

I was about to add the obligatory "I HATE UNIONS" comment... but I see that has already been done.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
I was about to add the obligatory "I HATE UNIONS" comment... but I see that has already been done.

Won't stop me:

I HATE UNIONS!

 

[kranky]

The reality is that you will find almost no support for a merit-based system, at least among the union members.

It will come down to this: management likes merit systems, so the union must oppose it. The union will argue that merit systems lead to preferential treatment, cronyism, etc. Just the fear of what *could* happen would guarantee overwhelming opposition to a merit system.

"Going away from the step system is taking a step backwards! Do you want to let the people who suck up to management get all the raises? Why, if you stand up for your rights, you will be punished by not getting a raise if we did what ZeroIQ wants!"

The union leaders will look at you as if you are a management stooge. Just the fact you would openly support such a system will make you a pariah to the union.

I am all for people trying to improve things, but in this case I must say: Don't waste your time. It's hopeless. The solution for your problem is to find a way to get promoted to a non-union position.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
I'm sick and tired of the step system and I want it changed to a merit system, at least for the IT department (which is negotiated under the machinists union). I talked with HR and there really is no way for me to move to a contract position with the same benefits without the union throwing a fit.

Those of you who have tried something like this, please chime in. There is little chance in voting out the union here because too many people would find themselves on the doorstep, however I think that many people would like a move to a merit system... not sure though.

What tips can you offer in successfully getting your voice heard in a contract negotiation. They negotiate every 3 years and this is tail end of negotiations so I fear it may be too late, however I could get lucky and they might not agree by the 1st of the year and we renegotiate next year.

You said it right there. Without the union you would undoubtedly be paid less and have less benefits.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: meltdown75
I was about to add the obligatory "I HATE UNIONS" comment... but I see that has already been done.

Won't stop me:

I HATE UNIONS!

I won't ask why because I highly doubt you have personal experience with one, so it doesn't matter to me. Very few (if any) of the union haters here have ever had a job saved or contract hammered out because of the presence of a union.

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: kranky
The reality is that you will find almost no support for a merit-based system, at least among the union members.

It will come down to this: management likes merit systems, so the union must oppose it. The union will argue that merit systems lead to preferential treatment, cronyism, etc. Just the fear of what *could* happen would guarantee overwhelming opposition to a merit system. The union leaders will look at you as if you are a management stooge. Just the fact you would openly support such a system will make you a pariah to the union.

I am all for people trying to improve things, but in this case I must say: Don't waste your time. It's hopeless. The solution for your problem is to find a way to get promoted to a non-union position.

Aside from a Director's position, I believe everything is represented... especially in IT.

 

[tw1164]

If you want to move to a merit system you're working too hard You'll have better luck working elsewhere.

 

[FoBoT]

then live with the status quo or get a job somewhere else

 

[hiromizu]

What's the problem with onions? I love them.

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: kranky
The reality is that you will find almost no support for a merit-based system, at least among the union members.

It will come down to this: management likes merit systems, so the union must oppose it. The union will argue that merit systems lead to preferential treatment, cronyism, etc. Just the fear of what *could* happen would guarantee overwhelming opposition to a merit system. The union leaders will look at you as if you are a management stooge. Just the fact you would openly support such a system will make you a pariah to the union.

I am all for people trying to improve things, but in this case I must say: Don't waste your time. It's hopeless. The solution for your problem is to find a way to get promoted to a non-union position.

Aside from a Director's position, I believe everything is represented... especially in IT.

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
I'm sick and tired of the step system and I want it changed to a merit system, at least for the IT department (which is negotiated under the machinists union). I talked with HR and there really is no way for me to move to a contract position with the same benefits without the union throwing a fit.

Those of you who have tried something like this, please chime in. There is little chance in voting out the union here because too many people would find themselves on the doorstep, however I think that many people would like a move to a merit system... not sure though.

What tips can you offer in successfully getting your voice heard in a contract negotiation. They negotiate every 3 years and this is tail end of negotiations so I fear it may be too late, however I could get lucky and they might not agree by the 1st of the year and we renegotiate next year.

You said it right there. Without the union you would undoubtedly be paid less and have less benefits.

No, what I said right there is the union would slam down an unfair labor practice lawsuit and cause the city lots of problems. We have awesome management here, I would get better pay and probably the same benefits (which aren't bad).

I take a lot of initiative and it can't be rewarded with a raise (come January) because the union would flip a bitch. Right now I'm in a temp position, but come January I move to a represented position.

I started here as an intern and when I was moved to a temp position I asked for and received a 2x what I was receiving as an intern, which was $11/hr. Not bad for only being here a year at that time, IMHO.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
I'm sick and tired of the step system and I want it changed to a merit system, at least for the IT department (which is negotiated under the machinists union). I talked with HR and there really is no way for me to move to a contract position with the same benefits without the union throwing a fit.

Those of you who have tried something like this, please chime in. There is little chance in voting out the union here because too many people would find themselves on the doorstep, however I think that many people would like a move to a merit system... not sure though.

What tips can you offer in successfully getting your voice heard in a contract negotiation. They negotiate every 3 years and this is tail end of negotiations so I fear it may be too late, however I could get lucky and they might not agree by the 1st of the year and we renegotiate next year.

You said it right there. Without the union you would undoubtedly be paid less and have less benefits.

BS. My company has union and non-union employees. The non-union benefits are better than the union and in many areas of the country pay is better as well. The only benefit to the union members is this feeling that their job is more secure.

 

[meltdown75]

Think about what you're asking to be done.

If you weren't in a temp position and someone IN a temp position was given a raise, you'd probably have something to say about it. Fortunately, the wording in the contract would prevent this from happening...

Sounds like you want the contract to change just for your selfish little reasons and then change back when it no longer applies to your status.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
I'm sick and tired of the step system and I want it changed to a merit system, at least for the IT department (which is negotiated under the machinists union). I talked with HR and there really is no way for me to move to a contract position with the same benefits without the union throwing a fit.

Those of you who have tried something like this, please chime in. There is little chance in voting out the union here because too many people would find themselves on the doorstep, however I think that many people would like a move to a merit system... not sure though.

What tips can you offer in successfully getting your voice heard in a contract negotiation. They negotiate every 3 years and this is tail end of negotiations so I fear it may be too late, however I could get lucky and they might not agree by the 1st of the year and we renegotiate next year.

Why do you want a pay cut?

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
Think about what you're asking to be done.

If you weren't in a temp position and someone IN a temp position was given a raise, you'd probably have something to say about it. Fortunately, the wording in the contract would prevent this from happening...

Sounds like you want the contract to change just for your selfish little reasons and then change back when it no longer applies to your status.

Uhm, I am in a temp position and I did get a pay raise and can receive as many pay raises as they will hand me without anyone being able to say anything because right now, I am not represented.

In my opinion, if someone deserves a raise, they should be given a raise temp or no temp.

I put a lot of extra work in right now because it is recognized. Come January no matter how much or how little work I put it I will still receive the same 3% raise every 2 or 3 years. I don't like that.

I don't see how it is for my own selfish reasons, unless my selfish reasons is wanting to receive rewards for working hard doing a good job.

 

[BoomerD]

I think you should go to the union meetings, stand up and voice your opinion and let the members decide.

Please send pics of the ensuing beat-down you will likely receive as a result.

Also, post copies of the police reports and hospitalization bills.

Seriously, you knew it was a union job when you hired on. If you don't want to be a member of the union, go find another job...

 

[thepd7]

Did anyone else read this as the OP wanting to secede from the Union (United States)?

Maybe it's just because I am from the south.

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
I'm sick and tired of the step system and I want it changed to a merit system, at least for the IT department (which is negotiated under the machinists union). I talked with HR and there really is no way for me to move to a contract position with the same benefits without the union throwing a fit.

Those of you who have tried something like this, please chime in. There is little chance in voting out the union here because too many people would find themselves on the doorstep, however I think that many people would like a move to a merit system... not sure though.

What tips can you offer in successfully getting your voice heard in a contract negotiation. They negotiate every 3 years and this is tail end of negotiations so I fear it may be too late, however I could get lucky and they might not agree by the 1st of the year and we renegotiate next year.

You said it right there. Without the union you would undoubtedly be paid less and have less benefits.

BS. My company has union and non-union employees. The non-union benefits are better than the union and in many areas of the country pay is better as well. The only benefit to the union members is this feeling that their job is more secure.

QFT. No matter what some people do here, they cannot get fired. The process for getting rid of a dead weight is ungodly.

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
I'm sick and tired of the step system and I want it changed to a merit system, at least for the IT department (which is negotiated under the machinists union). I talked with HR and there really is no way for me to move to a contract position with the same benefits without the union throwing a fit.

Those of you who have tried something like this, please chime in. There is little chance in voting out the union here because too many people would find themselves on the doorstep, however I think that many people would like a move to a merit system... not sure though.

What tips can you offer in successfully getting your voice heard in a contract negotiation. They negotiate every 3 years and this is tail end of negotiations so I fear it may be too late, however I could get lucky and they might not agree by the 1st of the year and we renegotiate next year.

Why do you want a pay cut?

I would not receive a pay cut. I would advance much fast being non union. No matter what my deadbeat of a co-worker will make more and receive a possible IT manager position (since that is a union position) in a few years when its needed because he has a year seniority on me and thats how the union works. It won't make a difference that the degree I'm receiving is specific to an IT director or manager position, that I do the IT budget, plan, organize, and schedule the projects we do.

Not being in the union, I am reviewed every 3 - 6 months and given a raise (or no raise) according to achievements. Under the union I get a yearly review and a standard 3% raise(not sure how often), whether I rotted in my chair or busted ass.

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I think you should go to the union meetings, stand up and voice your opinion and let the members decide.

Please send pics of the ensuing beat-down you will likely receive as a result.

Also, post copies of the police reports and hospitalization bills.

Seriously, you knew it was a union job when you hired on. If you don't want to be a member of the union, go find another job...

I was not aware when I was brought on contract that I would advance to a full time employed position, and I was unaware that IT was union... I love working here, the people, and the management... I just don't like the contract.

I am job hunting and have applied for a job in Seattle, IT is union there but they are on an equality based merit system.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: meltdown75
Think about what you're asking to be done.

If you weren't in a temp position and someone IN a temp position was given a raise, you'd probably have something to say about it. Fortunately, the wording in the contract would prevent this from happening...

Sounds like you want the contract to change just for your selfish little reasons and then change back when it no longer applies to your status.

Uhm, I am in a temp position and I did get a pay raise and can receive as many pay raises as they will hand me without anyone being able to say anything because right now, I am not represented.

In my opinion, if someone deserves a raise, they should be given a raise temp or no temp.

I put a lot of extra work in right now because it is recognized. Come January no matter how much or how little work I put it I will still receive the same 3% raise every 2 or 3 years. I don't like that.

I don't see how it is for my own selfish reasons, unless my selfish reasons is wanting to receive rewards for working hard doing a good job.

Sounds like a case of their way or the highway.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: meltdown75
Think about what you're asking to be done.

If you weren't in a temp position and someone IN a temp position was given a raise, you'd probably have something to say about it. Fortunately, the wording in the contract would prevent this from happening...

Sounds like you want the contract to change just for your selfish little reasons and then change back when it no longer applies to your status.

Uhm, I am in a temp position and I did get a pay raise and can receive as many pay raises as they will hand me without anyone being able to say anything because right now, I am not represented.

In my opinion, if someone deserves a raise, they should be given a raise temp or no temp.

I put a lot of extra work in right now because it is recognized. Come January no matter how much or how little work I put it I will still receive the same 3% raise every 2 or 3 years. I don't like that.

I don't see how it is for my own selfish reasons, unless my selfish reasons is wanting to receive rewards for working hard doing a good job.

Start slacking off, don't work as hard. That IS the union attitude. Anyone saying different is full of shit.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: meltdown75
I was about to add the obligatory "I HATE UNIONS" comment... but I see that has already been done.

Won't stop me:

I HATE UNIONS!

I won't ask why because I highly doubt you have personal experience with one, so it doesn't matter to me. Very few (if any) of the union haters here have ever had a job saved or contract hammered out because of the presence of a union.

I prefer to take responsibility for ensuring I have job security and negotiate my own deals with my employer so you are correct that I have never had to deal with the presence of a union. It's one of the benefits of living in a right to work state.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: KK
Start slacking off, don't work as hard. That IS the union attitude. Anyone saying different is full of shit.

I work hard and I'm in a union. Blow me.

 

[AZGamer]

You live in a right to work state?

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: KK
Start slacking off, don't work as hard. That IS the union attitude. Anyone saying different is full of shit.

I work hard and I'm in a union. Blow me.

Do you get rewarded for it?

Originally posted by: AZGamer
You live in a right to work state?

No, I don't.