The Truth About Socialism

[dank69]

Everyone can benefit from roads even if they never wind up driving on them. Nobody but you benefits from others paying to have your kidney stone fixed.

Pretty much the only “free” medical care which provides a positive externality to society is vaccinations. Otherwise it’s just a utilitarian function of not wanting to see dead indigents blocking doorways of hospitals when the better class of paying customers shows up; we give you minimal possible care in the ER for the cost to you of time opportunity cost.

Unless I’m one of your creditors IDGAF if you go bankrupt. If you (wrongly) think it’s a benefit to society then pull out your wallet and pay for it yourself.

Socialized healthcare seems to drastically lower the cost per capita while also raising the quality of care. Wouldn't everyone, including the weathy, benefit from that? The amount of taxes we'd need to collect would likely be lower than the cost of premiums. Perhaps significantly.

 

[mikeymikec]

Everyone can benefit from roads even if they never wind up driving on them. Nobody but you benefits from others paying to have your kidney stone fixed.

I think glenn1 imagines a world where no-one ever interacts with anyone else, let alone does anything that might benefit anyone else... and talks about it on an Internet forum.

 

[fskimospy]

Everyone can benefit from roads even if they never wind up driving on them. Nobody but you benefits from others paying to have your kidney stone fixed.

Pretty much the only “free” medical care which provides a positive externality to society is vaccinations. Otherwise it’s just a utilitarian function of not wanting to see dead indigents blocking doorways of hospitals when the better class of paying customers shows up; we give you minimal possible care in the ER for the cost to you of time opportunity cost.

Unless I’m one of your creditors IDGAF if you go bankrupt. If you (wrongly) think it’s a benefit to society then pull out your wallet and pay for it yourself.

This is bafflingly naive. As an easy example ‘free’ medical care also enables entrepreneurial activity by allowing people who want to start their own business to do so without fearing the loss of insurance from their current employer. This benefits all of society.

It’s always funny to see someone who thinks is they are just telling it like it is who clearly doesn’t know what they are talking about.

 

[twjr]

Socialized healthcare seems to drastically lower the cost per capita while also raising the quality of care. Wouldn't everyone, including the weathy, benefit from that? The amount of taxes we'd need to collect would likely be lower than the cost of premiums. Perhaps significantly.

I was going to say this too but sometimes no matter how evidence you provide there's no convincing some people. The US spends not only more money per capita than OECD countries with socialised healthcare, they spend more public money per capita.

 

[glenn1]

Socialized healthcare seems to drastically lower the cost per capita while also raising the quality of care. Wouldn't everyone, including the weathy, benefit from that? The amount of taxes we'd need to collect would likely be lower than the cost of premiums. Perhaps significantly.

No one is stopping your state from implementing its own universal healthcare, or you personally funding your own hospital where care is provided for free. Only thing holding you guys back from your utopia is yourselves, not my FYGM attitudes. It’s pathetic you can’t even be honest enough with yourselves to admit that. “I could have helped that poor person but didn’t because Glenn1 didn’t ageee to help as well” is as self-serving and dishonest as you could get.

 

[sdifox]

No one is stopping your state from implementing its own universal healthcare, or you personally funding your own hospital where care is provided for free. Only thing holding you guys back from your utopia is yourselves, not my FYGM attitudes. It’s pathetic you can’t even be honest enough with yourselves to admit that. “I could have helped that poor person but didn’t because Glenn1 didn’t ageee to help as well” is as self-serving and dishonest as you could get.

Sounds like someone doesn't understand how insurance works.

 

[Thebobo]

Heh! I knew it wouldn't be long before the age old tactic of magically redefining socialism on the fly was employed to exclude the latest failed state that fell for way too damn much of it.

"Why... that socialist state Sean Penn type dipshits couldn't get enough of?? Doesn't count!

....Norway!"

Lol!

Maybe if you picked an Avatar with a smiley face you wouldn't be pissed off all the time.

 

[twjr]

No one is stopping your state from implementing its own universal healthcare, or you personally funding your own hospital where care is provided for free. Only thing holding you guys back from your utopia is yourselves, not my FYGM attitudes. It’s pathetic you can’t even be honest enough with yourselves to admit that. “I could have helped that poor person but didn’t because Glenn1 didn’t ageee to help as well” is as self-serving and dishonest as you could get.

You know things like collective bargaining that underpin universal healthcare really only work if everyone buys into it? You know, kind of like vaccination that you suggested earlier. Basically, you are an anti-vaxxer, but for things like cancer, heart disease and diabetes.

 

[glenn1]

You know things like collective bargaining that underpin universal healthcare really only work if everyone buys into it? You know, kind of like vaccination that you suggested earlier. Basically, you are an anti-vaxxer, but for things like cancer, heart disease and diabetes.

Vaccination helps prevent contagious diseases from spreading. Cancer and such aren’t contagious and refusing to implement state-based universal healthcare or private charity only prevents liberals’ wallets from being opened.

 

[glenn1]

Sounds like someone doesn't understand how insurance works.

Nothing about our current “health insurance” market is truly insurance and “universal healthcare” even less so.

 

[sdifox]

Nothing about our current “health insurance” market is truly insurance and “universal healthcare” even less so.

Lulz you guys spend like twenty times what cuba spends on healthcare yet your life expectancies are pretty close. Hell, you have worse infant mortality rate than Cuba!

Just maintain your current funding level and you'll get better coverage under one payer system.

 

[twjr]

Vaccination helps prevent contagious diseases from spreading. Cancer and such aren’t contagious and refusing to implement state-based universal healthcare or private charity only prevents liberals’ wallets from being opened.

What about cancers caused by contagious diseases? Happy to immunise against HPV but tough shit if you get cervical cancer, you're on your own.

I live in a country that is sensible enough to have universal healthcare, despite the best efforts of the Liberals (the conservative party in Australia), and am happy to open my wallet to help others. Although I don't actually open my wallet, it just comes out of my taxes. Much like it comes out of yours. Wouldn't you like to get something for the ~$4000/yr of your taxes that are put towards public healthcare? Or are you happy to get nothing for something?

 

[sdifox]

What about cancers caused by contagious diseases? Happy to immunise against HPV but tough shit if you get cervical cancer, you're on your own.

I live in a country that is sensible enough to have universal healthcare, despite the best efforts of the Liberals (the conservative party in Australia), and am happy to open my wallet to help others. Although I don't actually open my wallet, it just comes out of my taxes. Much like it comes out of yours. Wouldn't you like to get something for the ~$4000/yr of your taxes that are put towards public healthcare? Or are you happy to get nothing for something?

We (Canadians) can learn a thing or two from you guys.

 

[brycejones]

Vaccination helps prevent contagious diseases from spreading. Cancer and such aren’t contagious and refusing to implement state-based universal healthcare or private charity only prevents liberals’ wallets from being opened.

Diseases that cause cancer are currently contagious. HPV says hello.

 

[fskimospy]

Nothing about our current “health insurance” market is truly insurance and “universal healthcare” even less so.

Of course it is, this has been explained to you before. You decided it wasn’t insurance based on a definition you made up in your head. We are using the actual definition, which it meets perfectly well.

 

[mikeymikec]

No one is stopping your state from implementing its own universal healthcare, or you personally funding your own hospital where care is provided for free. Only thing holding you guys back from your utopia is yourselves, not my FYGM attitudes. It’s pathetic you can’t even be honest enough with yourselves to admit that. “I could have helped that poor person but didn’t because Glenn1 didn’t ageee to help as well” is as self-serving and dishonest as you could get.

So what you're saying is, you're fine with people creating their own universal healthcare plan as long as it's not universal and you don't have to help pay for it.

I'm sure this makes sense to you.

 

[glenn1]

Of course it is, this has been explained to you before. You decided it wasn’t insurance based on a definition you made up in your head. We are using the actual definition, which it meets perfectly well.

LOL here we go again. There’s a reason why U.S. Code specifically uses terms like “health plan” or “employee welfare benefit plan” instead of “health insurance.” That’s because it doesn’t meet the legal definition of insurance anymore with defining features such as insurable interest at stake, etc.

You can call it whatever the hell you want (and most people do and will understand you) but that still doesn’t make you correct. It’s like going around claiming the proper term is “funny bone” rather than ulnar nerve then arguing the definition with a physician.

 

[twjr]

We (Canadians) can learn a thing or two from you guys.

Australia isn't too bad but I actually prefer the New Zealand system. There accidents (not just vehicular), even if it is your own fault in most cases, are covered. Also not generally possible to sue for personal injury unless it is gross negligence. You'd be amazed how much money you can save when you don't waste it on lawyers.

 

[fskimospy]

LOL here we go again. There’s a reason why U.S. Code specifically uses terms like “health plan” or “employee welfare benefit plan” instead of “health insurance.” That’s because it doesn’t meet the legal definition of insurance anymore with defining features such as insurable interest at stake, etc.

You can call it whatever the hell you want (and most people do and will understand you) but that still doesn’t make you correct. It’s like going around claiming the proper term is “funny bone” rather than ulnar nerve then arguing the definition with a physician.

No, it uses ‘employee benefit plan’ because insurance is only one of many ways that goal can be met. In fact, it explicitly mentions insurance.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/300gg-91

Again, if you want to invent definitions in your head that make you feel good that’s your business. Don’t expect the rest of us to use them though.

 

[dank69]

No one is stopping your state from implementing its own universal healthcare, or you personally funding your own hospital where care is provided for free. Only thing holding you guys back from your utopia is yourselves, not my FYGM attitudes. It’s pathetic you can’t even be honest enough with yourselves to admit that. “I could have helped that poor person but didn’t because Glenn1 didn’t ageee to help as well” is as self-serving and dishonest as you could get.

What the hell are you talking about? You know who is stopping universal healthcare? Conservatives. In most if not every state. For no good reason except they are afraid of the "socialism" bogeyman.

You also didn't answer the question. You would personally benefit from universal healthcare. So why don't you support it?

 

[glenn1]

What the hell are you talking about? You know who is stopping universal healthcare? Conservatives.

You also didn't answer the question. You would personally benefit from universal healthcare. So why don't you support it?

California had a veto-proof supermajority for quite some time and didn't implement universal healthcare in their state, why? Vermont had passed universal healthcare and yet abandoned it, why? Social policy changes have been implemented and successfully demonstrated as a proof of concept numerous times from same-sex marriage to MJ decriminalization and yet with universal healthcare all of a sudden you get cold feet. That's because you know damn well you won't "personally benefit" from it otherwise you'd already have implemented it and your amazing success with it would be leading to red states demanding to implement it also.

 

[mikeymikec]

ANSWER THE FREAKING QUESTION NUMBNUTS

In case you need reminding:

You also didn't answer the question. You would personally benefit from universal healthcare. So why don't you support it?

 

[dank69]

California had a veto-proof supermajority for quite some time and didn't implement universal healthcare in their state, why? Vermont had passed universal healthcare and yet abandoned it, why? Social policy changes have been implemented and successfully demonstrated as a proof of concept numerous times from same-sex marriage to MJ decriminalization and yet with universal healthcare all of a sudden you get cold feet. That's because you know damn well you won't "personally benefit" from it otherwise you'd already have implemented it and your amazing success with it would be leading to red states demanding to implement it also.

Why do you think it works in other countries but will not work here?

 

[glenn1]

ANSWER THE FREAKING QUESTION NUMBNUTS

In case you need reminding:

If you liberals want to personally guarantee from your own pockets that everyone "personally benefits" from universal healthcare with a direct transfer payment to me if I don't "personally benefit" then I'd support it. But you won't because you know damn well that folks like me are the ones you plan to fleece to pay for it all and we won't come out ahead in any way, shape, or form.

 

[mikeymikec]

If you liberals want to personally guarantee from your own pockets that everyone "personally benefits" from universal healthcare with a direct transfer payment to me if I don't "personally benefit" then I'd support it. But you won't because you know damn well that folks like me are the ones you plan to fleece to pay for it all and we won't come out ahead in any way, shape, or form.

So what you're saying is that you want a healthcare scheme that you'll get money (your money back?) if you "don't personally benefit from it" (whatever this bit in quotes means)?

I just want to establish that I have your position correctly before I try to respond from it.