The Truth About Engineering?

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torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
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OK, I realized that people may actually want counter arguments.



1) you will miss out on a lot of fun in college, forsaking some of the best years of your life.

Bunk. A lot of majors involve as much or more hard work. It also varies GREATLY from school to school. Try majoring in something involving reading a couple books a week.


2) you will miss the best chance you'll have to enrich your mind in a variety of academic areas

May be true in some schools, but not all. There's nothing stopping you from taking other courses anyway.

3) you will be limited to working in a few major cities.

Biggest load of crap so far. This is "true" of a huge number of majors. Try being an unemployed art teacher. Note that I put true in quotes because it's mostly false. There is a concentration, but it's nowhere near as bad as the "letter" makes it out to be and certainly not significantly worse than the average major.

4) the hours will be excessively long

What? This doesn't even make sense. It depends 99.999999999% on the employer, and the rest on the employee. Any field will involve insane amounts of work when you work for some companies. Try being a resident or medical student for once, then come back and laugh at this statement.

5) you will be surrounded primarily be men at work

Define "surrounded primarily by". Makes no sense. Totally depends on the employer, once again. This guy probably works for some huge IT firm with 99% foreign employees and sits in a cubicle surrounded by other engineers and produces products that only other engineers would want. Even then there are probably some women.

6) many if not most of your coworkers are going to be foreigners

Um... well this is true of a LOT of fields. Maybe if you take out the word many it isn't. Furthermore, it does vary GREATLY based on employer.

7) your salary will top out early and those liberal-arts majors will catch and pass you
8) by the time you're in your 30's you will be worried about keeping a job
9) you're NOT going to get into management
10) the long-term outlook for engineers is dismal


These are all basically the same patently incorrect point. I think the person wrote these after reading too many dilbert comics. I have yet to work somewhere that didn't have a ladder that engineers and other technical people could climb. The only reason 7-10 would be true is if the person has no skills beyond their "engineering" skills.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
I think the over-all sentiment of his rant against engineering isn't that far off the mark.
Primarily, his point that a lot of students are lured into engineering because of the big carrot (high starting salary), but they don't take a look at the amount of hard work it's going to take, both at college, and then on the job.

That idea that the engineers are just pawns and management takes all the credit is pretty close to the truth... I haven't heard of bonuses for engineers for getting their jobs done more quickly, but I *have* heard of managers receiving outrageous bonuses for getting the engineers (and others) to get the projects out sooner.

I've kept in contact with a few of my friends who went to school for engineering (one finally quit and is happily a librarian now - truth that with an engineering degree, you can bounce into a much wider job market than just about any other major.) All of them seem dissatisfied with this particular aspect of their job: you make changes that save the company MILLIONS of dollars and are lucky to even get a pat on the back and an "attaboy." During my brief span in engineering before I realized I'd rather work with real human beings, thus I'm a math/physics teacher now (although I'm not positive that all students qualify as "real" human beings sometimes) But during that time as an engineer, I came to realize that many of the other workers in the plant I was in (tile manufacturing company) hated the engineers in their cushy air-conditioned offices. When something went wrong, we were always the first to blame for not spotting the mistakes in the manufacturing process. (I successfully defended the department on 3 occasions in 2 months for expensive mistakes that were the fault of other departments, or in one instance, the contractor who installed tile improperly (throughout an entire mall!). But, all in all, it got boring quickly... same stuff, different day.
 

huesmann

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 1999
8,618
0
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Originally posted by: CChaos
Originally posted by: sohcrates
But frankly, i like engineering undergrad. You can go into *any* field. Try getting an english degree and then trying to go into an engineering job...it's not gonna happen. But get a BSEE and try going to write for a newspaper? They'll probably hire you...and frankly probably be impressed.

Hi. I have an English degree and I'm a programmer. (I don't consider myself an engineer). I'm not sure how Engineering prepares you to be a journalist though...
Fixed that for ya.
 

kaizersose

Golden Member
May 15, 2003
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Originally posted by: LordFortius
As an engineer
1) you will miss out on a lot of fun in college, forsaking some of the best years of your life.
2) you will miss the best chance you'll have to enrich your mind in a variety of academic areas
3) you will be limited to working in a few major cities.
4) the hours will be excessively long
5) you will be surrounded primarily be men at work
6) many if not most of your coworkers are going to be foreigners
7) your salary will top out early and those liberal-arts majors will catch and pass you
8) by the time you're in your 30's you will be worried about keeping a job
9) you're NOT going to get into management
10) the long-term outlook for engineers is dismal

<--mechanical engineer

1) uh, i had a pretty good time in college. my gpa wasnt so good at first, but i brought it up by the time i was done. most of my friends who were in lib arts spent their free time being lazy and watching TV.

2) somewhat agree. you shouldnt count on school to diversify yourself, that has to be a choice you make. i chose to travel when i was done with school because i love history and i wanted to see some important historical places.

3) eng. jobs are more concentrated in metropolitan areas but there are jobs everywhere. i love the bay area and found a job here pretty readily.

4) FALSE. i work four days a week for ten hours and GET EVERY FRIDAY OFF. ask an ibanker, lawyer or doctor how many fridays they have off.

5) true, but my gf works in fashion so all of her friends are female. works out nicely.

6) FALSE. i work in aerospace and a lot of work we do is military. think about it.

7) my company is going to pay for me to get an MBA from a top ten school. my salary should be on the rise for a while

8) see #7

9) yes, with an mba they will never let me into management :roll:

10) i like my job and am pretty happy about how things are looking. with an mba i can stay here and go into management or move on if i get bored. my salary is good, my benefits are good and most importantly, i am interested in what i do.

conclusion: diversify your skill set and make sure you enjoy your work and you will always be happy and successful, no matter the industry you work in.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
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I got BSEE Magna Cum Laude. I did better on GRE writing (700) than most of the liberal arts punks, and English is my 2nd language. I took some liberal arts courses, and they were a cakewalk. I took management class, and it was a cakewalk too. After taking EE courses, most everything else seems like easy BS.
As an engineer, you are sitting between science and business, and you can benefit from both. Scientists have great theories, but they are useless without an engineer to implement them. There are a lot of business plans that are also useless without an engineer to execute them. Even in the worst of times, good engineers are going to be in demand. Because without them, your business plans are going nowhere fast.
 

Ricochet

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
6,390
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I'm a ME graduate working for a small aerospace company. There is some truth to the article, but I rather be an engineer than the alternative. Getting a good job is tough, period, regardless of whatever field you're in.

BTW, the best way to destroy an engineer is to put him in management.
 

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
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being a engineer is better than working in starbucks.... thats where most liberal arts people will work!! :D:D

 

Zombie

Platinum Member
Dec 8, 1999
2,359
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Original author provided zero facts to support his claims. His writting is similar to those bitter souls who got laid off from their overpaid .com jobs :).
 

NYHoustonman

Platinum Member
Dec 8, 2002
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Honestly this post really has me spooked... I'm starting college within a few weeks and I am looking to pursue computer engineering. My dad does it, and he often has to work insane hours, but that is mainly because he is working for a startup (Airgo).

Should I be at all concerned? And I have this entire year to choose my major essentially, right?
 

MrBond

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
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Originally posted by: LordFortius
From what I know, the author is a 30-something EE in the bay area.
Yeah, no kidding. Maybe the article should be "The Truth about Electrical Engineering".

What's nice about Chemical Engineering is that they'll always need engineers onsite here. Hell, use more oil, keep us employed. When the oil runs out, we'll make your hydrogen fuel cells for you :D
 

MrBond

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
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Originally posted by: torpid
what's computer engineering? is that EE-CS?
EECS is Electrical Engineering - Computer Science. At my school it's what 90% of the people in EE do because it's only 2-3 more classes for your computer science degree.

 

Zombie

Platinum Member
Dec 8, 1999
2,359
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Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
Honestly this post really has me spooked... I'm starting college within a few weeks and I am looking to pursue computer engineering. My dad does it, and he often has to work insane hours, but that is mainly because he is working for a startup (Airgo).

Should I be at all concerned? And I have this entire year to choose my major essentially, right?



There is no such thing as easy money no matter what your major is...well unless you major in "my dad was fat mofo and he left me his fortune".

You have to work hard to earn and keep what you earn. Do a research on how many hours a good CEO puts in.

I have yet to see a history major make anywhere near 80k unless he/she becomes a prof. and even then I doubt it.
 

Armitage

Banned
Feb 23, 2001
8,086
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Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
Honestly this post really has me spooked... I'm starting college within a few weeks and I am looking to pursue computer engineering. My dad does it, and he often has to work insane hours, but that is mainly because he is working for a startup (Airgo).

Should I be at all concerned? And I have this entire year to choose my major essentially, right?

IMHO, the first question should always be "What do I want to do with my life?" Start there, not "What will the job market be when I graduate/turn 30/etc.?"

 

torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
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Originally posted by: MrBond
Originally posted by: torpid
what's computer engineering? is that EE-CS?
EECS is Electrical Engineering - Computer Science. At my school it's what 90% of the people in EE do because it's only 2-3 more classes for your computer science degree.

I know what EECS is, but I don't know what computer engineering is.
 

Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
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As an engineer
1) you will miss out on a lot of fun in college, forsaking some of the best years of your life.
2) you will miss the best chance you'll have to enrich your mind in a variety of academic areas
3) you will be limited to working in a few major cities.
4) the hours will be excessively long
5) you will be surrounded primarily be men at work
6) many if not most of your coworkers are going to be foreigners
7) your salary will top out early and those liberal-arts majors will catch and pass you
8) by the time you're in your 30's you will be worried about keeping a job
9) you're NOT going to get into management
10) the long-term outlook for engineers is dismal

1) I had a hell of a time. Too good of a time actually. Yeah my grades weren't the greatest but I had a good time.

2) I took all sorts of classes outside my major. So I was not limited in what I learned.

3) I work in Charleston, SC along with 3000 other engineers just where I work. Charleston is far from being a MAJOR city.

4) I work 8 hours a day and any longer I get paid overtime.

5) This one is true but we have been hiring a decent amount of women lately.

6) No foreigners at all. ZERO. We have some people that are indian decent but they are american born and raised.

7) My salary won't top out until 140K/year then I just get around 3% raise every year.

8) My job is totally secure. Average age where I work is 48 years old.

9) Here we only hire Management from Engineers. If you aren't an engineer then you can't get a job here or be management.

10) My outlook is good.

Maybe I am unique but I guess the other 3000 people here are also. The truth I have seen is #5
 

LordFortius

Senior member
Mar 11, 2001
358
0
0
People are always telling me that it's very easy for engineers to make the transition from engineering to business/management, but I just don't see it... especially the people who apparently get MBA's courtesy of the company.

At least where I work, promotion opportunities are very rare. There might be openings for 3 engineers to become first level managers every 2 years. When it does happen, there are dozens of people all jockying for the same position, and who ends up getting the spot is really just a matter of favoritism.

Once one becomes a first level manager, once can expect a very slow ascent up the ladder. If the company does offer to pay to educate you somewhere, it will be once you've made it a few levels further up (many years in the future) and will probably be an executive mba program at most, as opposed to a real one.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
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Hehe, cheers LordFortus...that was an entertaining read. I see no reason why it wasn't written by a Liberal Arts major. :D

If you truely enjoy something, all of those reasons, many of which are ambiguous to say the least, shouldn't matter to you.


Hell, I've spent 7+ hours in the library without even getting out of my chair( no I wasn;t sleeping..for the entire time :D), and I have absolutely no problem with it. Knowing so much and continually learning so much more is what keeps me happy.


I have to foward this to some people...they will get a kick out of it:D
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
BTW: It should be FACT that a large percentage of undergrad Engineering students drop out. THis however does not mean that the programs are at fault.

It pains me to admit it, but I have failed out of an EE program because I was at fault, and not the program. I learned the error of my ways and am doing well now, but it is not such an easy idea to understand.

Engineering is not for everyone, sort of like waste management or Liberal Arts:D.

BTW, the best parties are after midterms and after finals. It's not like we EE's can't sneak a few in :D
 

Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
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Originally posted by: LordFortius
People are always telling me that it's very easy for engineers to make the transition from engineering to business/management, but I just don't see it... especially the people who apparently get MBA's courtesy of the company.

At least where I work, promotion opportunities are very rare. There might be openings for 3 engineers to become first level managers every 2 years. When it does happen, there are dozens of people all jockying for the same position, and who ends up getting the spot is really just a matter of favoritism.

Once one becomes a first level manager, once can expect a very slow ascent up the ladder. If the company does offer to pay to educate you somewhere, it will be once you've made it a few levels further up (many years in the future) and will probably be an executive mba program at most, as opposed to a real one.

Well where I work, basically everyone eventually becomes management unless the person has a desire to stay an engineer. We all start as engineers. Then everyone progresses up the chain. From project engineer to project leads, to project managers, to program managers, to department managers.

I have been employeed at this company for 1 year and I am already a project lead. They are looking to get me more involved iwth project management. I just don't want that responsibility at this time. I haven't been an engineer long enough in my mind.