The Trayvon Martin case -- DC discussion thread

[werepossum]

Seems odd and sort of a tantrum. Not sure what to make of it. If you consider prior to evidence dumps there was somewhat of a chance the state had compelling evidence. From there it's been all disappointment for the state, maybe it's getting to them.

I have to agree with OCNewbie. I'm having a very hard time believing this is actually written by an assistant DA. Or a lawyer. Or an adult.

 

[OCNewbie]

From the TalkLeft forums:

Re: Dee Dee's statement in the letter to Sybrina Fulton, Exhibit B - "In my mind it was just a fight". That doesn't seem consistent with her statements at the end of her interview with BDLR:

~22:10 - Link

Dee Dee: "Cuz I know him" - "He would never fight, that's his problem"

BDLR - "He was not one of those people?"

Dee Dee: "Mm-mm [No]... he would never fight."

Pretty interesting I think.

 

[Geosurface]

I agree that the BDLR response is amazingly unprofessional. I've felt oftentimes that his conduct in the courtroom is likewise. Then again, I'm no expert and I had tried to be charitable and chalk it up to his personal style, and him trying to be a strong advocate for his side, but more and more I think all this bluster is a reaction to him and Angela Corey being aware of how weak their case is, and how incredibly problematic Witness 8 is.

Speaking of which, I agree that the "In my mind it was just a fight" bit doesn't fit very well with the scary, creepy man stalking her best friend... who she said she knew Trayvon was afraid of... and who she was desperately beseeching him to run from...

Even if we believe she thought it was just a fight, exactly how many days after the shooting are we meant to believe she became aware that he'd died? And how many days after that (or should I say weeks) before she let anyone know what she'd heard?

All I can say is, the entire Witness 8 construct is incredibly fishy to me. I have no idea what she really heard, but there are about a hundred different things about her testimony and how it has been revealed to us which don't smell right to me. The behavior of the state toward her deposition, etc only reinforces this.

EDIT: Oh and I also find her not knowing the proper spelling of her best friend since kindergarten's first name to be deeply odd. Plus? How does she speak so poorly but have such nice handwriting? Just strange to me. Perhaps her mother wrote the note for her, or something like that.

 

[werepossum]

I agree that the BDLR response is amazingly unprofessional. I've felt oftentimes that his conduct in the courtroom is likewise. Then again, I'm no expert and I had tried to be charitable and chalk it up to his personal style, and him trying to be a strong advocate for his side, but more and more I think all this bluster is a reaction to him and Angela Corey being aware of how weak their case is, and how incredibly problematic Witness 8 is.

Speaking of which, I agree that the "In my mind it was just a fight" bit doesn't fit very well with the scary, creepy man stalking her best friend... who she said she knew Trayvon was afraid of... and who she was desperately beseeching him to run from...

Even if we believe she thought it was just a fight, exactly how many days after the shooting are we meant to believe she became aware that he'd died? And how many days after that (or should I say weeks) before she let anyone know what she'd heard?

All I can say is, the entire Witness 8 construct is incredibly fishy to me. I have no idea what she really heard, but there are about a hundred different things about her testimony and how it has been revealed to us which don't smell right to me. The behavior of the state toward her deposition, etc only reinforces this.

EDIT: Oh and I also find her not knowing the proper spelling of her best friend since kindergarten's first name to be deeply odd. Plus? How does she speak so poorly but have such nice handwriting? Just strange to me. Perhaps her mother wrote the note for her, or something like that.

People tend to speak like those around them; it isn't necessarily indicative of their intelligence. I knew an older black man who spoke pretty much a caricature of ebonics, but was actually a very smart cookie. Some people make the same judgments of me for my heavy southern accent. (Of course, other people make those judgments for other reasons. LOL) I haven't heard Dee Dee, but if she's black or raised in majority black areas, she could speak quite poorly by standard English rules without necessarily being stupid. Conversely, handwriting is largely something learned in school, with the quality dependent most on one's dedication and fine motor skills. I don't think people emulate the handwriting of those around them, because we don't ostracize those who write differently.

As for her spelling, that may be our education system. There has been a fad over the last forty or fifty years that correcting a child's spelling hurts her self-confidence, so teachers have been taught not to correct spelling until late in school. Often outside of English classes, teachers don't correct spelling, either because they consider that someone else's job or because they aren't competent. After you've learned something wrong, it's hard to re-learn it correct.

 

[Druidx]

I'll give her this, out of the dozen hand written statements, DeeDee's was the only one easy to read.

 

[lotus503]

I think if Martin had planned to fight Zimmerman he would have told deedee.

She either knows more than she is saying or that wasn't martins intention at all.

Opinion of course

 

[OCNewbie]

I think if Martin had planned to fight Zimmerman he would have told deedee.

She either knows more than she is saying or that wasn't martins intention at all.

Opinion of course

I believe the underlined is likely too. I believe that's quite consistent with trying to explain why she knows her friend from kindergarten/boyfriend was "murdered" (or died as a result of his assault), and yet makes no efforts to come forward with the information she knows (she had to be contacted some time later... ~3 weeks or so).

 

[Londo_Jowo]

As I've re-read and thought about the letter from DeeDee, it's odd that it's written using words/phrases that doesn't match up with what she used or how she said things during the interview or depositions. Is it possible that this was a script to follow (from Crump via Sybrina) rather than a letter written by DeeDee? It seems odd that Sybrina was with DeeDee during the interview and deposition (moral support or helping her remember the script?).

I also wonder why BLDR/prosecution fought DeeDee's deposition with the defense being recorded. Afraid that the defense would be able to get a body language expert to analyze her actions/reactions when certain questions were asked/answers given?

 

[Fern]

I'm very disappointed the judge isn't allowing Crump to be deposed.

Fern

 

[Druidx]

I'm disappointed but not surprised, I don't think it's a clear cut as people make it. She won't reverse herself if there is any grey area. Why admit you were wrong unless you absolutely have to.

 

[werepossum]

Have to ask DVC, but I believe a lawyer with potential civil litigation for or against one party is pretty much off limits without clear evidence of involvement in the charges being brought. Crump's involvement (if any) in the criminal case seems limited to driving it from investigation to prosecution. If clear evidence is brought of Crump tampering with witnesses or tampering with evidence then he can be sanctioned, but would likely still not be part of these proceedings, especially when he is representing the deceased's family and there is an expectation of a civil lawsuit. Lawyers give themselves a great deal of latitude. This is not necessarily a bad thing, otherwise their lawyers could depose or sue your lawyers.

/amateur Internet lawyer

 

[RampantAndroid]

I'm very disappointed the judge isn't allowing Crump to be deposed.

Fern

I thought Crump was deposed....

 

[Fern]

I thought Crump was deposed....

Not by MOM.

IIRC, Crump just wrote up a paper and submitted it, or something similar.

Fern