look, this article is old news that has been dissected numerous times over on the prius forums. What it boils down to is this, they're rating the prius to last only as long as the 100,000 mile warranty whereas thousands of prius owners are way beyond that number and still going strong. There is a prius cab driver that had over 250,000 miles on his prius before toyota traded a new prius with his old one to study it. Yes, nickel is used in the batteries but nickel is used is batteries everyone uses, older laptops, cell phones, you name it. Are you going to stop using all these devices just because the nickel in them is manufactured in an environmentally unfriendly way? i doubt it. And like some posts in this thread have already said, A GM vehicle lasting 300,000 miles? what a joke. This is all Detroit propaganda and skewed facts. Is the Prius perfect? absolutely not, there are inevitable environmental damages that occur but it occurs with any vehicle. The Prius is however, a step in the right direction that American manufactures are a decade behind in. Instead of putting their money to R&D for better vehicles, they're spreading lies to promote their own agenda. No educated person will fall for it.
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The Toyota Prius is LESS environmentally friendly than a Hummer..
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Oregonian Letters to the Editor
Hybrid vs. Hummer: Question research
Tuesday, April 10, 2007
James L. Martin's essay concerning the alleged non-green effect of hybrid autos such as the Toyota Prius ("Hybrids might look green, but look behind that battery," April 8 ), makes a completely fallacious comparison between the hybrid and the Hummer. (Note: I do not own either vehicle.)
By pegging the life expectancy of a Prius at 100,000 miles and that of a Hummer at 300,000 miles, Martin automatically triples the impact of the Prius' fixed manufacturing costs. The 100,000/300,000 comparison itself is erroneous in that given the reliability records of the two manufacturers' products, the Prius is far more likely to last the greater distance.
The Prius is generally expected to last a minimum of 250,000 miles, and many have already exceeded that figure. Martin's article is just another example of how, by massaging numbers, any preordained position can be supported.
DENNIS McNISH Lake Oswego
You would think by reading James L. Martin's essay that hybrids are to blame for sulfur dioxide-scorched earth in Canada. After all, Hummers don't have a battery-powered engine, and they have a lower energy cost impact than the Prius.
But batteries don't have anything to do with the purported high energy cost of the Prius. Instead, the problem is substandard research by CNW Marketing Research. Martin has merely imputed a bad conclusion from bad research.
After spending eight hours on Sunday reading and analyzing the 458-page "Dust to Dust" report from CNW Marketing, I can report that this document has no basis for its findings, and lacking these, I can only attack the ludicrous conclusions that follow from the endless tables of results.
Did you know that at the end of a car's life, the societal energy cost to dismantle the Prius is $326,000; $363,000 for the H3 Hummer, and $400,000 for the Honda Civic? There is no information to suggest why the end-of-life energy costs are about 10 times higher than the car's initial purchase price. And this is purported to be only energy cost -- no labor, no equipment.
Here is the crowning gem: If you take the reported energy cost and apply it to the 14.6 million vehicles scrapped each year, you can calculate that the total annual incurred societal energy cost is $6.2 trillion. This is higher than all U.S. energy expenditures as reported by the U.S. Census Bureau.
Keep driving the hybrids and don't trust marketers to report societal energy cost information!
CONRAD EUSTIS Southwest Portland
James L. Martin claims that the "energy cost" of a Toyota Prius is $3.25 per mile, relative to $1.95 per mile for a Hummer. While there is some interesting thinking in the research, examining the energy cost of manufacturing and disposing of a vehicle as well as its cost of use, the difference in these numbers seems to be primarily based on the assumed life expectancy of the vehicles: 100,000 miles for a Toyota Prius vs. 300,000 miles for a Hummer. There is no justification or evidence cited for this significant disparity.
Using similar logic, payday loans are the cheapest money on the street, at a mere 10 percent per week -- clearly much less than a credit card at 18 percent per year!
CNW Marketing Research's Web site states that its "clients include major automobile manufacturers . . .." I wonder who is its larger client, GM or Toyota?
MARK FRISCHMUTH Southwest Portland
Hybrid vs. Hummer: Question research
Tuesday, April 10, 2007
James L. Martin's essay concerning the alleged non-green effect of hybrid autos such as the Toyota Prius ("Hybrids might look green, but look behind that battery," April 8 ), makes a completely fallacious comparison between the hybrid and the Hummer. (Note: I do not own either vehicle.)
By pegging the life expectancy of a Prius at 100,000 miles and that of a Hummer at 300,000 miles, Martin automatically triples the impact of the Prius' fixed manufacturing costs. The 100,000/300,000 comparison itself is erroneous in that given the reliability records of the two manufacturers' products, the Prius is far more likely to last the greater distance.
The Prius is generally expected to last a minimum of 250,000 miles, and many have already exceeded that figure. Martin's article is just another example of how, by massaging numbers, any preordained position can be supported.
DENNIS McNISH Lake Oswego
You would think by reading James L. Martin's essay that hybrids are to blame for sulfur dioxide-scorched earth in Canada. After all, Hummers don't have a battery-powered engine, and they have a lower energy cost impact than the Prius.
But batteries don't have anything to do with the purported high energy cost of the Prius. Instead, the problem is substandard research by CNW Marketing Research. Martin has merely imputed a bad conclusion from bad research.
After spending eight hours on Sunday reading and analyzing the 458-page "Dust to Dust" report from CNW Marketing, I can report that this document has no basis for its findings, and lacking these, I can only attack the ludicrous conclusions that follow from the endless tables of results.
Did you know that at the end of a car's life, the societal energy cost to dismantle the Prius is $326,000; $363,000 for the H3 Hummer, and $400,000 for the Honda Civic? There is no information to suggest why the end-of-life energy costs are about 10 times higher than the car's initial purchase price. And this is purported to be only energy cost -- no labor, no equipment.
Here is the crowning gem: If you take the reported energy cost and apply it to the 14.6 million vehicles scrapped each year, you can calculate that the total annual incurred societal energy cost is $6.2 trillion. This is higher than all U.S. energy expenditures as reported by the U.S. Census Bureau.
Keep driving the hybrids and don't trust marketers to report societal energy cost information!
CONRAD EUSTIS Southwest Portland
James L. Martin claims that the "energy cost" of a Toyota Prius is $3.25 per mile, relative to $1.95 per mile for a Hummer. While there is some interesting thinking in the research, examining the energy cost of manufacturing and disposing of a vehicle as well as its cost of use, the difference in these numbers seems to be primarily based on the assumed life expectancy of the vehicles: 100,000 miles for a Toyota Prius vs. 300,000 miles for a Hummer. There is no justification or evidence cited for this significant disparity.
Using similar logic, payday loans are the cheapest money on the street, at a mere 10 percent per week -- clearly much less than a credit card at 18 percent per year!
CNW Marketing Research's Web site states that its "clients include major automobile manufacturers . . .." I wonder who is its larger client, GM or Toyota?
MARK FRISCHMUTH Southwest Portland
mercanucaribe
Banned
That original article got OWNED
mercanucaribe
Banned
I'd say that most of those hidden costs trumpeted by anti environmentalists are blown out of proportion and exaggerated. People say that a solar panel takes more energy to make than it ever creates, but this isn't true.
iamaelephant
Diamond Member
Why don't you RTFT and see how the article gets pulled apart, not by "eco-theists" but by clear thinkers and skeptics.
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