Wasn't the towel trick a bad idea though? If you send it back working they're probably going to assume you're an idiot and send the same console back to you.
ROFLwaffles, thats it, the bear has mad repair skillz.
Reading around, it looks like the leading theory is that it remelts the crappy solder on the GPU, allowing it to make contact again. It is stated to be very temporary, so I hope that box shows up this time.
Yep, that's what I read too. I did some reading around into what caused the RRoD when I picked up my Xbox360 a few months ago, back before Microsoft extended their warranty from 1 year to 3 years to cover the RRoD.
Here's the leading theory of what causes the RRoD, based on what I read: (I'll attempt to explain it as best I can)
The CPU and GPU on the Xbox360 are BGA (ball grid array) - like what most (all?) DDR2 memory uses.
BGA, for those who don't know, works like this: instead of using pins, which are a more secure way of fastening something like a CPU or GPU to a PCB/Motherboard, they use essentially tiny 'holes' plated with gold (or another electrically conductive metal) and fill them with tiny balls of solder (an electrically conductive metal comprised mainly of tin or led). BGA is cost effective and allows for very high 'pin' density -- you can pack those balls very closely together, allowing for smaller chips to be used with less packaging, which makes them ideal for applications such as memory chips.
But do the CPU and GPU on the Xbox360 use BGA connections, when pins are clearly more secure for this application? Cost! This is the tradeoff that consoles often have to make. Sockets with pins are more expensive, even ones which are not removeable. In hindsight, with Microsoft shelling out ~100M (I think) to repair faulty consoles, and reports of as high as a 25% failure rate from first batch consoles, it may have been worth their while to use pins all along. But there was no precedent for these failures happening a couple years ago.
---------
On to the RRoD:
Scenario A: One theory says that through use the Xbox360's motherboard heats up and starts to warp a little bit, causing some BGA connections to break. Anecdotal evidence says that RRoD's tend to occur more in X360 systems that are run vertically rather than horizontally, but data is sketchy at best. I'd blame heat much quicker than I'd blame system position. Also logic would state that trauma to the system (dropping it, etc) could accelerate this kind of failure.
The other possible culprit for the loss in connection of the BGA 'connectors' is heat from the CPU or GPU (video card).
Now, the Xbox360 is a very hot running system; it has a 90nm 3-core 3.2 GHz RISC CPU from IBM (which supports hyperthreading, no less), and a hot running 90nm R500 GPU from ATI (48-pipeline unified shader GPU @ 500 MHz). The heatsinks on all but the most recent Xbox360s are puny and inadequate for cooling the CPU/GPU, allowing temperatures to reach 70C and well above, depending on how well the heatinks are making contact, how well ventilated the system is, ambient room temperature, and how long the system has been on.
The system gets much hotter when running games than when simply in the dashboard.
So what happens?
Scenario B: The leading theory is this: heat from prolonged use of the Xbox360 melts the solder from either the CPU or GPU (GPU is believed to be the culprit, but proof is sketchy), and the electrical connection on some of the BGA connections is lost -- essentially it's just like breaking off pins on a socketed CPU. System error; 3 red lights on console.
But wait - solder is a metal with a low melting point (typically 180-190C, depending on its metallic composition), so why not try to melt the solder again, thus re-establishing a connection.
That's what the towel trick purports to do - it gets the GPU and/or GPU so hot, that some of the solder melts again, and the connection re-established, albeit temporarily.
While this is a 'miracle cure' for the RRoD - be sure to keep an eye on your system. Based on the melting temperature of solder, that should set off some alarm bells -- regardless of whether or not the solder is completely turning into a liquid or not, it's definitely getting very hot with the towel trick. So please do the towel trick with some caution - don't leave the house while doing it!
--------
That, in a nutshell, is what I've read causes the RRoD. For the five people like me who actually care to know
.MY 360 reg ringed ';( just 5mins ago :!
Red Ringed of Death Quick Fix 101 Guide
Cook and Cool down your xbox 360
Towel trick works is because you stop the airflow and the GPU and CPU get so hot that melt the solder which then settles the loose component back to their place.
So you get 2 to 3 towel , Wrap it good.
* Turn on your 360 for 30mins
* turn of your 360 for another 30min so it cool down the solder , cpu and GPU.
Turn it on and you will see red ringed gone but you would be better off just sending it Microsoft for repairs.
Do this when you have a red ring !!
Red Ringed of Death Quick Fix 101 Guide
Cook and Cool down your xbox 360
Towel trick works is because you stop the airflow and the GPU and CPU get so hot that melt the solder which then settles the loose component back to their place.
So you get 2 to 3 towel , Wrap it good.
* Turn on your 360 for 30mins
* turn of your 360 for another 30min so it cool down the solder , cpu and GPU.
Turn it on and you will see red ringed gone but you would be better off just sending it Microsoft for repairs.
Do this when you have a red ring !!
It's certainly the best fix I've seen yet, barring crazy stuff like a complete lead-solder replacement on the GPU BGA.
There will never be a permanent solution, as the base hardware design by M$ is just garbage. the GPU heatsink isn't big enough, and the mainboard is too weak. The board flexes under all the heat, and the X-Clamps don't provide enough pressure to stop that flex.
Huh? There's several fixes. You can RMA your system for free to Microsoft for the RRoD for three years after the purchase date.
And more importantly Microsoft has released, along with the HDMI-equipped Premium Xboxes, new and improved cooling, with much bigger heatsinks and heatpipes connecting them. And 65nm should do nothing but help the situation. Didn't you get the memo?
bob4432
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2003
- 11,727
- 46
- 91
from all my readings (and i have done a ton) both the towel trick and the x-clamp fix are both temporary at best after you have a rrod console, it is just a matter of time before it goes again.
the key was to do the xclamp before a rrod, but now there is no reason to w/ the 3yr warranty...
the key was to do the xclamp before a rrod, but now there is no reason to w/ the 3yr warranty...
- Aug 22, 2001
- 32,117
- 32,692
- 146
Thanks for the informative post, Jiffy :beer:
My box finally arrived last evening, nearly 30 days from the original repair request. Ironic how it closely coincided with the Halo3 release. Perhaps they wanted to be certain there would be one less person slamming the XBL servers?
My box finally arrived last evening, nearly 30 days from the original repair request. Ironic how it closely coincided with the Halo3 release. Perhaps they wanted to be certain there would be one less person slamming the XBL servers?
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter