The total failure of SLI

[redmyst]

It's time for an update from 'yours truly' on this thread.

Thanks for all the confirmations, good questions, and grins (from stupid posts) that this group has provided over the last month.

VSYNC, IMAGE TEARING, FPS -> all resolved!!!

I just got my PowerColor X800XL and it works as advertised. Nice work ATI...

If I go back and retest the EXACT same points w/ the new card I get the following results:

VSYNC - OFF -> 72fps
VSYNC - ON -> 60fps (as expected locking the max FPS to the refresh rate of the screen)

With the exact same video settings I can traverse the entire world of HL2 and rarely drop below 55fps. Ah - so very nice. That's all I wanted (and a little bit of fun along the way).

2 6600GTs sold on Ebay at 15% loss. Live and learn.

BTW: I DID inform the buyers of the cards that I had problems getting this particular element of SLI working correctly on the cards. And pointed them to this very helpful thread.

For those of you who have no complaints on this issue -> continue to enjoy yourselves.

For those who have struggled along with me -> thanks for your deep expressions of love and support. Let the SLI Doctor prescribe a simple remedy to your woes. Take one X800XL pill tonight, and call me in the morning.

Dave
- why do tech posts have to be devoid of humor and prose.

 

[intranetman]

I'm in a similar boat, however, I have not yet bought my graphics cards for my SLI board under much scrutiny of the SLI system.

Anyhow, I was just wondering whether or not you were still using your SLI motherboard with the new x800 XL ATI card you got?

 

[redmyst]

Still using the x800xl and loving it. ATI really smashed one out of the park with this card. There is nothing like it for the $$$.

Listen to the Doctor! Take 1 x800xl and call me in the morning.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Try the new 71.84 Xtreme G drivers. The 71.84's reference are supposed to allow you to add game profiles (ie add games to the support SLI list).

-Kevin

 

[intranetman]

What motherboard are you using with the x800 xl?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: redmyst
Still using the x800xl and loving it. ATI really smashed one out of the park with this card. There is nothing like it for the $$$.

Listen to the Doctor! Take 1 x800xl and call me in the morning.

If they "listen to the Dr." they'll play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory in PS 1.1, Riddick w/o stencil shadows, Quake 4 much worse, Painkiller without SM3, Far Cry without SM3 and HDR, and not be able to watch WMV9 high definition video accelerated.

Sometimes the pill is just too bitter to swallow Dr., and betting on the SM2 feature set when even ATI is abandoning it soon seems questionable to me?

 

[lotus503]

I have no issues with my system. I dont mind spending the cash for some good fun.

There will always be people who have issues with certain things. I never use Vsync, never will use Vsync. So really its not a problem for me.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: redmyst
Still using the x800xl and loving it. ATI really smashed one out of the park with this card. There is nothing like it for the $$$.

Listen to the Doctor! Take 1 x800xl and call me in the morning.

If they "listen to the Dr." they'll play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory in PS 1.1, Riddick w/o stencil shadows, Quake 4 much worse, Painkiller without SM3, Far Cry without SM3 and HDR, and not be able to watch WMV9 high definition video accelerated.

Sometimes the pill is just too bitter to swallow Dr., and betting on the SM2 feature set when even ATI is abandoning it soon seems questionable to me?

You know, I was waiting for you to start with the whole SM3 and HDR thing you always rave about. Let's wait until Quake 4 actually comes out, then you can tell me how it runs on your Nvidia cards with SM3 and HDR enabled.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: redmyst
Still using the x800xl and loving it. ATI really smashed one out of the park with this card. There is nothing like it for the $$$.

Listen to the Doctor! Take 1 x800xl and call me in the morning.

If they "listen to the Dr." they'll play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory in PS 1.1, Riddick w/o stencil shadows, Quake 4 much worse, Painkiller without SM3, Far Cry without SM3 and HDR, and not be able to watch WMV9 high definition video accelerated.

Sometimes the pill is just too bitter to swallow Dr., and betting on the SM2 feature set when even ATI is abandoning it soon seems questionable to me?

You know, I was waiting for you to start with the whole SM3 and HDR thing you always rave about. Let's wait until Quake 4 actually comes out, then you can tell me how it runs on your Nvidia cards with SM3 and HDR enabled.

Also, you really cant say much about WMV HD as the 6800 series cant accelerate that. Only the 6600 would and that is with a modded .dll (unreleased) from Microsoft.

Well seeing as it is based off of the DIII engine, i may be going out on a limb here (sarcasm) but im GUESSING it will run better on Nvidia hardware

-Kevin

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: redmyst
Still using the x800xl and loving it. ATI really smashed one out of the park with this card. There is nothing like it for the $$$.

Listen to the Doctor! Take 1 x800xl and call me in the morning.

If they "listen to the Dr." they'll play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory in PS 1.1, Riddick w/o stencil shadows, Quake 4 much worse, Painkiller without SM3, Far Cry without SM3 and HDR, and not be able to watch WMV9 high definition video accelerated.

Sometimes the pill is just too bitter to swallow Dr., and betting on the SM2 feature set when even ATI is abandoning it soon seems questionable to me?

You know, I was waiting for you to start with the whole SM3 and HDR thing you always rave about. Let's wait until Quake 4 actually comes out, then you can tell me how it runs on your Nvidia cards with SM3 and HDR enabled.

Also, you really cant say much about WMV HD as the 6800 series cant accelerate that. Only the 6600 would and that is with a modded .dll (unreleased) from Microsoft.

Well seeing as it is based off of the DIII engine, i may be going out on a limb here (sarcasm) but im GUESSING it will run better on Nvidia hardware

-Kevin

Bzzzt! Wrong!

Sorry Kevin, have to correct you.

http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_support.html

Notice the difference in the PCIE 6800 and the AGP 6800? The PCIE 6800 is the nV41 chip, with all the PureVideo capabilities of the 6600GTs. You're right about the unreleased .dll AFAIK. :beer:

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: redmyst
Still using the x800xl and loving it. ATI really smashed one out of the park with this card. There is nothing like it for the $$$.

Listen to the Doctor! Take 1 x800xl and call me in the morning.

If they "listen to the Dr." they'll play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory in PS 1.1, Riddick w/o stencil shadows, Quake 4 much worse, Painkiller without SM3, Far Cry without SM3 and HDR, and not be able to watch WMV9 high definition video accelerated.

Sometimes the pill is just too bitter to swallow Dr., and betting on the SM2 feature set when even ATI is abandoning it soon seems questionable to me?

So, let's break it down:

Splinter Cell CT - not out yet.

Riddick - 2.0++ slows the game to a crawl

Painkiller - SM3.0 does what exactly visually for that game?

FarCry - PS2.0b does everything 3.0 does and HDR without AA, that's a loser.

WMV9 HD accelerated - not available and if you own a good enough system, doesn't matter.

So, you're going with exactly squat at this time.

 

[CheesePoofs]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: redmyst
Still using the x800xl and loving it. ATI really smashed one out of the park with this card. There is nothing like it for the $$$.

Listen to the Doctor! Take 1 x800xl and call me in the morning.

If they "listen to the Dr." they'll play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory in PS 1.1, Riddick w/o stencil shadows, Quake 4 much worse, Painkiller without SM3, Far Cry without SM3 and HDR, and not be able to watch WMV9 high definition video accelerated.

Sometimes the pill is just too bitter to swallow Dr., and betting on the SM2 feature set when even ATI is abandoning it soon seems questionable to me?

...... and in a year, nvidia is going to abandon SM3 and move on the the next greatest thing. Thats how it works.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: munky
You know, I was waiting for you to start with the whole SM3 and HDR thing you always rave about. Let's wait until Quake 4 actually comes out, then you can tell me how it runs on your Nvidia cards with SM3 and HDR enabled.

Don't forget the Stencil Shadows Munky!

Quake 4 is OpenGL, no SM3 or HDR. I "rave" about these features because they are the near future. It was this way when T&L on chip came out- at first a trickle of games, then all of them.

I'm just saying if you want an ATI card, waiting for their next gen might not be a bad idea.

I personally can't see spending $400-$500+ on a card right now that doesn't support these features, or give you the flexibility to upgrade by buying another down the road.

If I was a normal person who bought a card every 18-24months, no way in Hell I'd bet that SM3 won't catch on when all the big developers can be seen pimping it on nVidia's testimonial page. Early last year, so when they been using it to develop all this time, what do you think their concern is? Making things work in SM2b because it "could"? Sure.

What are you going to do if other TWIMTBP developers follow SplinterCell's example and leave out SM2 altogether because it's a pain in the ass to add it? Buy a R520 and take a huge loss on your X850XT PE because no one will want a card with a 2002 feature set as more modern games come out?

Hey, it's your money, go nuts.

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: munky

What are you going to do if other TWIMTBP developers follow SplinterCell's example and leave out SM2 altogether because it's a pain in the ass to add it? Buy a R520 and take a huge loss on your X850XT PE because no one will want a card with a 2002 feature set as more modern games come out?

That's a BIG assumption. If that's the route SCCT's developer's go I highly doubt the entire industry would follow one asinine programming team's decision. In fact, besides SCCT there is NO other game on the horizon that is excluding SM2.0 and including SM3.0

 

[MisterChief]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: munky
You know, I was waiting for you to start with the whole SM3 and HDR thing you always rave about. Let's wait until Quake 4 actually comes out, then you can tell me how it runs on your Nvidia cards with SM3 and HDR enabled.

Don't forget the Stencil Shadows Munky!

Quake 4 is OpenGL, no SM3 or HDR. I "rave" about these features because they are the near future. It was this way when T&L on chip came out- at first a trickle of games, then all of them.

I'm just saying if you want an ATI card, waiting for their next gen might not be a bad idea.

I personally can't see spending $400-$500+ on a card right now that doesn't support these features, or give you the flexibility to upgrade by buying another down the road.

If I was a normal person who bought a card every 18-24months, no way in Hell I'd bet that SM3 won't catch on when all the big developers can be seen pimping it on nVidia's testimonial page.

What are you going to do if other TWIMTBP developers follow SplinterCell's example and leave out SM2 altogether because it's a pain in the ass to add it? Buy a R520 and take a huge loss on your X850XT PE because no one will want a card with a 2002 feature set as more modern games come out?

Hey, it's your money, go nuts.

Excellent post! And thank you for reflecting my ideas. I've decided to hold off on heavy spending for now, seeing that 512MB cards and DirectX 10 are "supposedly" around the corner. Why spend $550 dollars on a card that may be reaching the end of it's potential so soon?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Bar81

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: munky

What are you going to do if other TWIMTBP developers follow SplinterCell's example and leave out SM2 altogether because it's a pain in the ass to add it? Buy a R520 and take a huge loss on your X850XT PE because no one will want a card with a 2002 feature set as more modern games come out?

That's a BIG assumption. If that's the route SCCT's developer's go I highly doubt the entire industry would follow one asinine programming team's decision. In fact, besides SCCT there is NO other game on the horizon that is excluding SM2.0 and including SM3.0

The thing is "Do you know that?"

It's obvious from your signature you bet the other way, but would you have expected SCCT to potentially alienate every ATI user like this? What about Riddick? No stencil shadows for ATI. What about Far Cry and Painkiller? Any performance enhancing patches for ATI on those? What about HDR in Far Cry?
I have an X800XT PE, and while it might have benched similar to my 6800GT for averages at Doom3, it plays Doom 3 like ass, comparatively. I don't have high hopes for X800 users on Q4, other D3 license titles.

The fact is developers are coding specifically for nV40s, and they are not for R420s. If you throw out HL2, ATIs GITG logo is as rare as Bigfoot, as are their vendor relations.

Sorry, that's the way it is now.

 

[Bar81]

You just made absolutely no sense. Your assumptions are just that. The industry standard is PS2.0. Anything outside of that IS the assumption, not the other way around. And again your examples for SM3.0 and HDR amount to squat. SM2.0b=SM3.0; HDR without AA = not acceptable; SM3.0 features killing performance in game = not acceptable. You can keep on hoping and assuming but the nvidia revolution ain't coming. Show me the "flood" of upcoming new titles that are using SM3.0

And a further reality check to all the SM3.0 champions:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1027290552#post1027290552

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Bar81
You just made absolutely no sense. Your assumptions are just that. The industry standard is PS2.0. Anything outside of that IS the assumption, not the other way around. And again your examples for SM3.0 and HDR amount to squat. SM2.0b=SM3.0; HDR without AA = not acceptable; SM3.0 features killing performance in game = not acceptable. You can keep on hoping and assuming but the nvidia revolution ain't coming. Show me the "flood" of upcoming new titles that are using SM3.0

And a further reality check to all the SM3.0 champions:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1027290552#post1027290552

SM2.0b !=SM3.0 Otherwise it would be called SM3.0 :roll: HDR is not a SM3.0 spec or feature. SM3 has nothing to do with HDR. THe only reason you cannot use AA with HDR is because of the implementation in Far Cry. SM3.0 hasn't dropped framerate yet, in fact, so far it improves it. Also take into account the fact that no games out there are native SM3.0 yet.

What is so hard to understand here. Things flow logically, after SM2 there is SM3. SM3 will therefore in the near future become the new standard, hence having that feature can/will be a nice addition.

-Kevin

 

[Bar81]

It would be nice if you had a clue what you were talking about. My statements are accurate.

edit: As to HDR no where did I imply it was specific to SM3.0 but rather it's implementation requires SM3.0 in FarCry.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Where in my post does it seem that i am wrong. Please point out a false statement.

Your statement is not accurate. For 1 example: "Shader Model 2.0b = SM3" .... No that would be false.

-Kevin

 

[Bar81]

It's called shorthand. That post was a cliff notes version of an earlier post. You are wrong in everything you state besides the clarification you made in FarCry which as I said I never stated. Look up in the thread my listing the games Rollo is touting to see what I said about SM2.0b and SM3.0 in FarCry and pretty much everything else.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Well SC will have SM3.0 Far Cry has 3.0 and Painkiller has 3.0. Once again 2.0b does not equal 3.0

Please point out where i am wrong. EVERY SINGLE thing in that thread is based on SM3.0 articles. It is not false by anymeans.

Here i will even give an example using the SM2b=SM3 quote once again.

SM2.0b does not have Hardware Displacement Mapping. Additionally in a more general respect SM3.0 requires 32bit FP Precision so that in turn complies with certain specs for certain HDR implementations.

-Kevin

 

[Bar81]

Learn how to read. I'm not going to argue this retarded point. Again, read my thread listing the games that Rollo was touting to see what I was saying about SM2.0b and SM3.0 in FarCry and stop trying to make a point out of nothing.

Upon reading your statement again I revise my comment and now I see that your post had two useless points, one assumption, one BLATANTLY ignorant comment, and an unclear comment.

Your useless points are restating what I already said which is simply (for the retarded) (1) IN FARCRY SM2.0b does everything SM3.0 does and (2) IN FARCRY you must have SM3.0 to implement HDR.

Your assumption is that SM3.0 is some kind of good feature when in reality it's completely superfluous atm.

The blatantly ignorant comment is claiming that no game takes a nose dive when implementing SM3.0 features. Purchase a clue and take a look at Riddick 2.0++ numbers.

Finally, what exactly do you mean by "native" SM3.0 support. That makes absolutely no sense. If a game has SM3.0 it has SM3.0

As far as I can tell there's about eight games (current and upcoming) that feature SM3.0 support and none released that make any kind of decent use from it or provide any advantage over SM2.0b. In essence what I'm saying, stay with me (it seems difficult for you,) that SM3.0 is simply not a feature that should factor into a buyer's decision when selecting a video card. If you want a 6800 for other reasons then sure SM3.0 is great to have. But it's FAR from a realistic consideration in a graphics card purchase based upon nvidia's current and EVEN upcoming schedule of SM3.0 enabled games.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Again, read my thread listing the games that Rollo was touting to see what I was saying about SM2.0b and SM3.0 in FarCry and stop trying to make a point out of nothing.

I did, i would think this would be evident when i quote 3 of them.

IN FARCRY SM2.0b does everything SM3.0 does

Yes for the most part from what we can tell, however Far Cry is not natively written for SM3 so it doesn't take advantage of the features that only exist in SM3

IN FARCRY you must have SM3.0 to implement HDR

You DO NOT. It is just a coincidence that the Geforce 6 series supports SM3 and 32bit FP Precision. What is required is 32bit FP Precision. Now that i think about it, IIRC you dont need it , but if that is true what about the Geforce FX series as they support 32bit FP Precision. Can anyone clarify this point.

Purchase a clue and take a look at Riddick 2.0++ numbers

Well then obviously it is poorly implemented and not working correctly seeing as that is the only game that sees a performance drop.

Finally, what exactly do you mean by "native" SM3.0 support. That makes absolutely no sense. If a game has SM3.0 it has SM3.0

No game on the market has been written from the ground up to take advantage of SM3's features. Everything that supports it supports it through a patch/addon. Seeing as no game supports HW Displacement mapping yet i would think that it is too hard to implement in a mere patch.

As far as I can tell there's about eight games (current and upcoming) that feature SM3.0 support and none released that make any kind of decent use from it or provide any advantage over SM2.0b.

How do you know. There are 8 hyped up games. Look at Far Cry not many people expected it. Additionally how do you know that they provide no advantages. Seeing as some that you are referring to are not released yet, how would you know.

If you want a 6800 for other reasons then sure SM3.0 is great to have. But it's FAR from a realistic consideration in a graphics card purchase based upon nvidia's current and EVEN upcoming schedule of SM3.0 enabled games.

I partially agree with you. I dont believe that SM3 should be the deciding factor in purchasing a gaming card unless you do not plan on upgrading at all or upgrading very late next generation in which case having it could benefit in future games. If you plan on upgrading soon or dont plan on playing future games until another upgrade (for some strange reason ) than no SM3 support is fine.

-Kevin

 

[Bar81]

Fair enough, we have a difference of opinion but I understand what you're saying. However, that eight game list is the games that have been mentioned PERIOD. I'm not picking the most hyped games. *Besides* since the hypothetical "unanounced" SM3.0 games you mention would be patched to include 3.0 "like FarCry" that wouldn't be "native" SM3.0 support so what would be the point?