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The Top Ten Reasons to Keep Smoking
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Actually that's not true at all. Tobacco companies have strong growth IN THEIR TOBACCO divisions even today. In fact, if you ignored the tarnish from that whole dying thing, they are exellent performers as corporations.
Strong Growth =)
Oh and Brown and Williamson(the US arm of BAT) is merging with RJR to form a new even bigger tobacco company to fight over US market share with Altria.
You see, although smoking rates in the US have plumetted over the years you forget that it's a global economy and these companies are worldwide. You can buy Marlboros here, Ecuador, China, Japan, Russia, South Africa, wherever you wanna go.
Think about it this way: 6 BILLION people on this planet, 250 million in the USA. If you think the drop in US sales of tobacco has put the tobacco companies in a corner you're horribly wrong. They still have those 5.75 billion other people to sell cigarettes to.
And people can afford em in most of the countries of the world! Cigarettes don't REALLY cost $7 a pack like in NYC =p or $4.00 a pack like in most places(just taking a guess on the average btw). Nor do they even cost the $2.50 a pack you can probably buy em for in Tobacco growing areas. They cost probably less than 25 cents a pack to make, seeing as how you can buy cigarettes for under $1 a pack in many many countries.
So while the cigarettes are taxed like crazy here, the tobacco companies see very slim shares of the sales here, but worldwide they can take a much bigger share.
Amused
Elite Member
Harvey, no one killed my mom. She killed herself. No one killed your friends. They killed themselves. I know that's hard for you to accept, but it's a fact.
And your little turn around denies the reality that tobacco addiction would exist were there tobacco companies or not. Look at drugs. The harder we fight, the more we ban, the more people we put in prison, the more addicts we have. The war on drugs is a perfect example of the fact that blaming and targeting the supply side does NOTHING to end addiction. In fact, it makes it worse.
It wasn't targeted towards adults or kids. It was a family show, which everybody watched. And guess what? Families have children in them! Are you saying that the kids went in the other room when the Flintstones came on?
I don't think I've ever said anything about video games or violent TV influencing kids myself. But anyway, Tobacco companies know full well that they have to target kids to continue their growth in the US. They just don't want to say it since it definitely doesn't sound too good haha.
I mean, there's publicly available documents that clearly show exactly what the tobacco companies knew about advertising towards kids, and that they knew to continue growth they'd have to target people in their early teens because around the time you're 19 you're pretty much impossible to get to. Who else would they target advertising to?
Are you saying that advertisements don't affect people? Because guess what the ENTIRE ADVERTISING INDUSTRY is based on? They get PAID MONEY to INFLUENCE people. And when the only place you can obtain new customers from is kids, then you target kids. It's not rocket science.
Anyway, violent TV shows and video games DO affect kids, but no specific sector of the media should be to blame for any specific acts of violence done by kids. Parents should be responsible as to what their kids can see though, as I'm sure most 8 year olds shouldn't be watching Species or Species II(well yeah the nudity too) or playing Grand Theft Auto 3. If you think that there wouldn't be an affect from playing Grand Theft Auto 3 all the time from the time you're 8 till you're 20, you're crazy too =p Since kids usually do this kinda stuff at home(and most movie theatres are very hardliner about you not being too young to see a movie in NYC anyway) it's pretty much something the parents can control. Cigarettes on the other hand aren't $49.99 each, and you can smoke em anywhere, so control is harder for parents to enforce...plus once you're addicted it's a moot point anyway.
Heh you ever play Max Payne 2? You know that makes you wanna go around blasting bad guys with Mac 11's lol.
Heh
I've seen the actual document referenced here but I don't happen to have it on hand =p but you can probably look it up if you want to. And it's not the only document from tobacco companies that explicitly states their intentions of going after young teens.
So to assume that their ads target anybody BUT teens is absurd. They wouldn't bother to advertise on the Flintstones if there weren't teens and kids watching. Simple as that.
However, current day ads probably target adults somewhat more, because targeting kids is taboo now so they fight more for market share. But all the older ads were EXPLICITLY targeting kids.
And even today I have a hard time believing that some of those magazine inserts aren't targeting teens.
I've seen the actual document referenced here but I don't happen to have it on hand =p but you can probably look it up if you want to. And it's not the only document from tobacco companies that explicitly states their intentions of going after young teens.
So to assume that their ads target anybody BUT teens is absurd. They wouldn't bother to advertise on the Flintstones if there weren't teens and kids watching. Simple as that.
However, current day ads probably target adults somewhat more, because targeting kids is taboo now so they fight more for market share. But all the older ads were EXPLICITLY targeting kids.
And even today I have a hard time believing that some of those magazine inserts aren't targeting teens.
Exactly how bad is that reading disorder of yours? Go back and check what I said. The tobacco companies knew their products were addictive and carcinogenic over than fifty years ago, they worked very hard to keep that information secret from the public, and they bribed our legislators to keep it that way, and they did it for greed. What part of CRIMINAL CONSPIRIACY and CORRUPTION AND BRIBERY OF PUBLIC OFFICIALS do you not understand? :disgust:
No, I don't want to take away the rights of other, but I have no problem with stopping the wrongs of others. No, I don't want a cookie. Too sweet and too much fat for me.
NO, I get too many hot deals from Staples. If Kraft foods, Cool Whip and Co are quality, and Country Time Imitation Lemonade are the staples of your diet, you lead a very sheltered and very deprived existence.Yes, let's boycott some of the staples of consumer life.
About blaming McDonalds. Their food might not be too healthy, but if you actually exercised I'd be willing to bet that eating at McDonald's 3 times a week wouldn't make you obese. Shocking isn't it? That exercising like you're supposed to would help your body burn off FOOD it ingests? That's why those lawsuits were garbage. McDonald's isn't bad for you if you actually got off your butt and exercised. If you sit on your butt all day and eat Chicken Ceasar salads all day long you could probably still get fat. Maybe McDonald's shouldn't have pushed super sizing and such things, but the lawsuits were about obese Children anyway, and last I checked those Happy Meals consisted of pretty small portions. If you get obese because you ate a cheeseburger, a kid sized fries, and a kid sized drink, you either have serious thyroid problems or you're sitting around and playing video games all day long while smothering your face with doritos and chocolate too.
And McDonald's doesn't force you to SuperSize anything. The regular prices posted are still for the same ole' sizes, and that's what you'd normally get. I'm sure you could have ordered two orders of fries if you were still hungry, and the fact that they offer an option for you to just get a bigger fries to begin with isn't really wrong of them.
And heck, if you exercised regularly all week, and you usually eat at home(like you should), and you head out on Saturday night with your friends and you figure you want a Supersized Double Quarter Pounder meal, I'm not gonna say that that's any good for you but it's not gonna kill you or make you obese.
That's why we need these diets where you don't have to do anything like get off your butt. If people just got OFF their butts we could eat anything we want. Buttery Buscuits ahoy!
And McDonald's doesn't force you to SuperSize anything. The regular prices posted are still for the same ole' sizes, and that's what you'd normally get. I'm sure you could have ordered two orders of fries if you were still hungry, and the fact that they offer an option for you to just get a bigger fries to begin with isn't really wrong of them.
And heck, if you exercised regularly all week, and you usually eat at home(like you should), and you head out on Saturday night with your friends and you figure you want a Supersized Double Quarter Pounder meal, I'm not gonna say that that's any good for you but it's not gonna kill you or make you obese.
That's why we need these diets where you don't have to do anything like get off your butt. If people just got OFF their butts we could eat anything we want. Buttery Buscuits ahoy!
ReiAyanami
Diamond Member
feh! everytime i order a double cheeseburger (for a dolla) its dripping wet with fat lard, enough to fill up a cup with that stuff let it solidify and call it a flurry
it'd be nice if they tried licensing some george foreman technology
it'd be nice if they tried licensing some george foreman technology
lowfatbaconboy
Golden Member
I like Europe and Canada's warning labels that they put on their packs.....its not small and say maybe this or that
my friend came back from England and her pack of cigs said SMOKING KILLS in big letter that took up 1/3rd the pack
here are some other examples they are using in canada....and i think in europe...
Warning labels on cig packs
not sure that these labels would help as much but they might
my friend came back from England and her pack of cigs said SMOKING KILLS in big letter that took up 1/3rd the pack
here are some other examples they are using in canada....and i think in europe...
Warning labels on cig packs
not sure that these labels would help as much but they might
IN GENERAL SMOKING IS UNHEALTHY AND BAD EVERYONE WHO IS ALREADY ADDICTED OR LIKES IT GO AHEAD AND CONTINUE AND DON'T TRY TO PERSUADE SOMEONE TO DO SO!...but nobody who has tried it don't even bother with it. WHY? BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO GAIN...yes you can say its your life, free country whatever, but its people like this that make it more and more difficult...:disgust:
The things you accuse the tobacco execs of are the same thing virtually every corporation in the nation has done. As I said, it's a very irrational and short-sighted view to take, and I have been reading your posts. I too have seen plenty of people who were addicted to dope and cigarettes, but it isn't that nicotine is more addictive. It's that dope causes immediate problems whereas cigarette's problems can be lessoned or ignored for a good while. You can't see the forest for the trees is all and I hate to be cliche.
Brutuskend
Lifer
Hasn't happend yet! 🙂
I mean 🙁
BULLSH8! :disgust: Every for profit corporation in the nation tries to make a profit, but every such corporation is NOT in the business of producing a product the only foreseeable end result of which is ADDICTION, DISEASE and DEATH. :|
The American Lung Association states:
- Smoking remains the nation's leading preventable cause of death. Lung disease death rates continue to increase while other leading causes of death have declined.
- [*]Secondhand smoke is the third leading preventable cause of death in the U.S. killing 38,000 to 65,000 nonsmokers every year.
[*]Secondhand smoke causes lung cancer, other types of cancer, and heart disease in nonsmokers.
[*]Exposure to secondhand smoke can cause children to develop asthma, bronchitis, pneumonia, other respiratory infections, and ear infections. Exposure to secondhand smoke also increase the risk that infants will die of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS)
[*]Cigarette smoke contains over 4,700 chemicals, over 200 poisons, and over 50 human carcinogens. The poisons in cigarette smoke include carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide, and methyl isocyanate. The carcinogens in cigarette smoke include benzo[a]pyrene and NNK, which cause lung cancer; nitrosamines, which cause cancer of the lung, respiratory system, and other organs; aromatic amines, which cause bladder and breast cancer; formaldehyde, which causes nasal cancer; and benzene, which causes leukemia. The carcinogen NNK has been found in nonsmokers who have been exposed to secondhand smoke.
[*]Each year environmental tobacco smoke kills approximately 53,000 Americans, the same number of Americans killed in the Vietnam War.
[*]The Environmental Protection Agency has classified environmental tobacco smoke as a ?Group A? Carcinogen ? a substance known to cause cancer in humans.
BULLSH8! :disgust: First, people can. and often do, live with other addictions. In fact, many heroin addicts can live very normal lives, to outward appearance, as long as they have a reliable maintenance fix available. The biggest problems they face is finding clean dope from a safe, non-criminal source. I don't mean that as any form of approval for heroin addiction; it's just a fact. Heroin is highly addictive and destructive, but the most immediate problems from its use arise from those conditions. The same is true for many other addictive substances. OTOH, crack addiction is very quick, and can lead almost immediately to severe phyisical and mental problems.
That said, on a more generalized level, the major difference between tobacco and other addictive, destructive drugs is a cultural history that has left tobacco legal where other drugs are not. This is so only because the tobacco industry has willfully covered up the information they had for over fifty years and prevented legislative control through conspiracy and corruption of our democratic processes.
And you think I'm irrational?
I see both the forest and the trees. The only way you will avoid being cliche about this is to inform yourself before you speak.
< unrealistic hyperbole >
DEATH TO ALL TOBACCO EXECS AND THEIR COMPANIES! :|
< /unrealistic hyperbole >
Originally posted by: Harvey
BULLSH8! :disgust: Every for profit corporation in the nation tries to make a profit, but every such corporation is NOT in the business of producing a product the only foreseeable end result of which is ADDICTION, DISEASE and DEATH. :|
The American Lung Association states:The American Cancer Society reports:
- Smoking remains the nation's leading preventable cause of death. Lung disease death rates continue to increase while other leading causes of death have declined.
How the hell do you group the manufacture and sale of books, bicycles, cars, clothes, computers, food, machinery, medicine, paper, shoes, test equipment, toys, etc. in the same catagory as tobacco? 😕
- [*]Secondhand smoke is the third leading preventable cause of death in the U.S. killing 38,000 to 65,000 nonsmokers every year.
[*]Secondhand smoke causes lung cancer, other types of cancer, and heart disease in nonsmokers.
[*]Exposure to secondhand smoke can cause children to develop asthma, bronchitis, pneumonia, other respiratory infections, and ear infections. Exposure to secondhand smoke also increase the risk that infants will die of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS)
[*]Cigarette smoke contains over 4,700 chemicals, over 200 poisons, and over 50 human carcinogens. The poisons in cigarette smoke include carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide, and methyl isocyanate. The carcinogens in cigarette smoke include benzo[a]pyrene and NNK, which cause lung cancer; nitrosamines, which cause cancer of the lung, respiratory system, and other organs; aromatic amines, which cause bladder and breast cancer; formaldehyde, which causes nasal cancer; and benzene, which causes leukemia. The carcinogen NNK has been found in nonsmokers who have been exposed to secondhand smoke.
[*]Each year environmental tobacco smoke kills approximately 53,000 Americans, the same number of Americans killed in the Vietnam War.
[*]The Environmental Protection Agency has classified environmental tobacco smoke as a ?Group A? Carcinogen ? a substance known to cause cancer in humans.BULLSH8! :disgust: First, people can. and often do, live with other addictions. In fact, many heroin addicts can live very normal lives, to outward appearance, as long as they have a reliable maintenance fix available. The biggest problems they face is finding clean dope from a safe, non-criminal source. I don't mean that as any form of approval for heroin addiction; it's just a fact. Heroin is highly addictive and destructive, but the most immediate problems from its use arise from those conditions. The same is true for many other addictive substances. OTOH, crack addiction is very quick, and can lead almost immediately to severe phyisical and mental problems.
That said, on a more generalized level, the major difference between tobacco and other addictive, destructive drugs is a cultural history that has left tobacco legal where other drugs are not. This is so only because the tobacco industry has willfully covered up the information they had for over fifty years and prevented legislative control through conspiracy and corruption of our democratic processes.
And you think I'm irrational?Searching Google for "leading preventable cause of death" brings up ten pages of links. Let's see you find ANY authoritative documentation to refute what I've said. 😛I see both the forest and the trees. The only way you will avoid being cliche about this is to inform yourself before you speak.
< unrealistic hyperbole >
DEATH TO ALL TOBACCO EXECS AND THEIR COMPANIES! :|
< /unrealistic hyperbole >
You've yet to give me any information that I wasn't aware of, and I wholeheartedly disagree about a Dope addiction being harder to break than cigarettes. I've had both and they are not even similar. Secondly, you keep screaming about death to the Tobacco execs, but I'm sure some of the executives of Philip Morris and the like never had anything to do with the tobacco side. You're advocating killing someone because they made a living. Finally, other corporations have allowed unsafe products on to the market and ignored warning signs that they were killing people. It happens all the time and they get away with it a good bit. Your problem is that it was widespread and your friends were weak-kneed when it came to handling an addiction. I'm terribly sorry that they died that way, but the addiction is not as powerful as you make it out to be. I'm a smoker and I used to be a dope fiend as well. I know which is more powerful, because I only smoke when I have a few drinks now. I haven't smoked a cigarette when not drinking for a long time now.
Gosh oh gee whizers, Mill old boy. Sorry we don't have double sized, glowing, flashing fonts for my < unrealistic hyperoble > and < /unrealistic hyperoble > tags, and dingle dongees danggers if the the braile font doesn't work on this forum, either. 😛
I appreciate it that you felt the need to quote my whole post, but if you already knew all of that, and you're still smoking, perhaps you needed to see it, again, and maybe reposting it will work like writing it 100 times on the blackboard to help you remember it. I think your doping experience may have damaged some of your cognitive and memory functions, because, contrary to your statement, I did NOT say dope addiction is harder to break than tobacco addiction. Every addictive drug has its own addiction cycle, and from all I've read and heard from actual doctors, tobacco addiction is comparable to heroin. I know for a fact that it takes fewer contacts with crack to become physically dependent because I have witnessed it n friends, and breaking that addiction is no picnic.
It doesn't matter. Congratulations on gotting away from whatever illegal addiction had you. The cigs are just one more to go for you, and I wish you the best in getting your bod free.
Meanwhile, you can rant all you want, but you still haven't provided anything more than unfounded verbal attacks on me and your own sad excuses apologies to yourself about tobacco. I asked you, before, and I'll ask you again, for a link that presents any credible proof that ANY other legally sold product exists that provides ONLY the down sides of addiction, disease and death.
Go ahead, and name one, or please, STFU.
I appreciate it that you felt the need to quote my whole post, but if you already knew all of that, and you're still smoking, perhaps you needed to see it, again, and maybe reposting it will work like writing it 100 times on the blackboard to help you remember it. I think your doping experience may have damaged some of your cognitive and memory functions, because, contrary to your statement, I did NOT say dope addiction is harder to break than tobacco addiction. Every addictive drug has its own addiction cycle, and from all I've read and heard from actual doctors, tobacco addiction is comparable to heroin. I know for a fact that it takes fewer contacts with crack to become physically dependent because I have witnessed it n friends, and breaking that addiction is no picnic.
It doesn't matter. Congratulations on gotting away from whatever illegal addiction had you. The cigs are just one more to go for you, and I wish you the best in getting your bod free.
Meanwhile, you can rant all you want, but you still haven't provided anything more than unfounded verbal attacks on me and your own sad excuses apologies to yourself about tobacco. I asked you, before, and I'll ask you again, for a link that presents any credible proof that ANY other legally sold product exists that provides ONLY the down sides of addiction, disease and death.
Go ahead, and name one, or please, STFU.
I haven't attacked you Harvey. All I've done is tell your that your logic was illogical and that your points didn't make much sense. Alcohol is a legally sold product that pretty much provides all the down sides you talk about. It has its positives, but a lot of people never see any of the positive of it. Same goes for tons of other things out there, but you are intelligent enough to know that there are more.
Alcohol is just as addictive for some people as smoking, but most people don't drink all the time because it isn't socially acceptable. As I mentioned already, I'm not in the least bit addicted to cigarettes. Smoking 2 or 3 while drinking is certainly not an addiction, but I'm sure you'll say I'm rationalizing it.
No, it doesn't, but chemical (as opposed to psychological) addiction is a biochemical process. The more you do it, the stronger the physical addiction. If you don't believe "smoking 2 or 3 while drinking" is volunteering for it, you didn't learn much from your previous encounters with physiological chemical dependency.
You get to live with the results if you don't quit. I wish you well.
My main point wasn't your particular problem. It is (to belabor it one more time) that, regardless of the responsibility of each individual for him/herself, that tobacco is nasty, deadly, addictive stuff with no redeaming social value, and the companies that make and sell it are a serious societal evil. I started because I didn't think Brutuskend's "joke" was even slightly funny considering all the pain and death it causes, and I hold those companies directly responsible for it, especially since they have engaged in criminal acts to further their own enrichment.
I've said about all I have to say on this one, except to repeat:
< unrealistic hyperbole >
DEATH TO ALL TOBACCO EXECS AND THEIR COMPANIES! :|
< /unrealistic hyperbole >
Happy New Year. Out. 🙂
And guess what, doctors agreed! They prescribed smoking to patients. Lets sue them, and their families and the schools which gave them their accreditation.
But, no, doctors are infallable right?
No, you are taking away the rights of others. Your blind hate makes you unable to realize.
Attack the person and not the arguement. Classic when you have nothing good to say.
Well, you set up the question to be so restricted, it can't be answered. Great way to win an argument.
To answer, Alcohol.
LordMorpheus
Diamond Member
HAHAHA!! Thats one of the funniest things EVER!!
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