The tone of the board seems to be changing....
- Thread starter Deeko
- Start date
I think that the 3dfx supporters were always around, but the 3dfx bashers were so loud and basically intimidating.
As soon as DaveB3D (and other educated users) started to refute many of the 3dfx bashers claims, other 3dfx supporter felt more comfortable in posting.
(But yeah, the much improved benchmark performance of the 1.03 drivers sure helped.)
As soon as DaveB3D (and other educated users) started to refute many of the 3dfx bashers claims, other 3dfx supporter felt more comfortable in posting.
(But yeah, the much improved benchmark performance of the 1.03 drivers sure helped.)
You cant' blame people for jumping to conclusions. And just remember 1st impressions last and that isn't a good thing for 3dfx. But these new ideas they have may be able to bring back there reputation a little more.
I think it has alot to do with our ways of embracing the underdogs in any situation. Just look at how AMD is now loved by many.
i think it has more to do with the nvidiots being so vocal that the 3dfx people were afraid to speak out, definately..heh
however...that said...they are both good cards..
however...that said...they are both good cards..
AMD is loved by many because they provide competition for Intel, who once dominated the processor area. It used to be that Cyrix was a bit more competitive and AMD a lot less, while Intel remained on top pretty much. Nobody had heard about Cyrix and/or AMD, and the name "Pentium" was associated with performance, even if a K6 based processor offered better performance for its price.
But now AMD is starting to become more widely known, and its products seriously put up good competition for Intel's products. We didn't have things like the Athlon, Duron and Thunderbird.
Many people love AMD with good reason! That doesn't give them any right to bash Intel or anyone else though. Bashing=trollesque/bad.
I think 3dfx has always put out a relatively good product, and they kicked major ass when they first introduced the Voodoo II. Now video card prices are sky-high, but 3dfx still puts out a good product, although there are more apparent competitors now like nVidia. Arguments can be made endlessly as to which is better (I'm not excluding ATi, Matrox, etc, just speaking generally kind of).
But it's not always about what is better, because in most cases one card is better at one thing compared to the other. It's all about which card suits your needs.
So before you think about purchasing something because you think it's good or because everybody is saying good things about it, think about what you will be using it for presently and in the future.
For most people, something that handles 2D well and has a decent amount of features with a nice price tag is good. But then there's the hardcore gamer who can't suffer a single frame per second. In which case they don't care if they have to run their desktop at 85Hz instead of 120Hz.
The above may or may not be large generalizations/etc, so don't flame me out about it.
Cretin
But now AMD is starting to become more widely known, and its products seriously put up good competition for Intel's products. We didn't have things like the Athlon, Duron and Thunderbird.
Many people love AMD with good reason! That doesn't give them any right to bash Intel or anyone else though. Bashing=trollesque/bad.
I think 3dfx has always put out a relatively good product, and they kicked major ass when they first introduced the Voodoo II. Now video card prices are sky-high, but 3dfx still puts out a good product, although there are more apparent competitors now like nVidia. Arguments can be made endlessly as to which is better (I'm not excluding ATi, Matrox, etc, just speaking generally kind of).
But it's not always about what is better, because in most cases one card is better at one thing compared to the other. It's all about which card suits your needs.
So before you think about purchasing something because you think it's good or because everybody is saying good things about it, think about what you will be using it for presently and in the future.
For most people, something that handles 2D well and has a decent amount of features with a nice price tag is good. But then there's the hardcore gamer who can't suffer a single frame per second. In which case they don't care if they have to run their desktop at 85Hz instead of 120Hz.
The above may or may not be large generalizations/etc, so don't flame me out about it.
Cretin
everyone here is clueless.
I'M THE REASON 3DFX IS GETTING GOOD PRESS HERE!! I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY!!!
seriously. I think what has happneed is that the initial "benchmark shock" has worn off, and people are starting to play their games and realizing that all the "big 3" are damn good cards. The 5500 now provides the best value of the "high end" cards with the recent price drop and driver release, so the 5500 is getting more people who try it, and they're realizing what I've known (and other 5500 owners have known) for quite some time. It kicks a$$.
I'M THE REASON 3DFX IS GETTING GOOD PRESS HERE!! I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY!!!
seriously. I think what has happneed is that the initial "benchmark shock" has worn off, and people are starting to play their games and realizing that all the "big 3" are damn good cards. The 5500 now provides the best value of the "high end" cards with the recent price drop and driver release, so the 5500 is getting more people who try it, and they're realizing what I've known (and other 5500 owners have known) for quite some time. It kicks a$$.
I always hated the 3dfx bashing that went on in this and other forums, but I knew better than arguing with anyone about it. I thought 3dfx had released a very good product with the Voodoo 5 5500, but most here were really harsh on it for some unknown reason. Yes there were alternatives, some arguably better. But my goodness, some of these kids here were acting like 3dfx was public enemy number one. Was it the best product available when it came out? Certainly not! But it sure wasn't chop liver. It was a darn good product that had some benefits to it that some people preferred. So why criticize it to the nth degree? Who knows why they did. Some said that they hated 3dfx because of some guy named "Bubba" in a PR dept. that lied, but then, when Nvidia's PR guy got caught lying, no-one seemed to care, citing that "that's what PR people do, why are you surprised?". Hmm..
It was actually kind of ironic. Anyhow... myself, after seeing the Voodoo 1 card run Tomb Ho (Dirk's label there) is what made me buy a PC (kind of a console gamer before that) and run out and put a Voodo card in it. Then I upgraded to a Voodoo 2, then eventually a Voodoo 3 (even though, when the V3 came out, the bashing had begun with the TNT crowd). But I really never saw much difference between a TNT and Voodoo 3, I looked them both over very carefully, and they both had there strengths and weaknesses, and one wasn't VASTLY superior to the other IMHO, so I went with the 3dfx because I knew them. No big deal to me really. But somehow, that supposedly made me a "zombie" or something to that effect. I really didn't care to be labeled like that, and my thoughts were that this had sprung from the kiddie arguments. Seemed pretty lame to me at the time, but who cares, I was just playing games.
After that though, after some more thorough research, I got me a GeForce. Not because of the incessant ranting's from the freaky anti 3dfx zealots, but because it was the best solution at that time (I still have it btw) and it was/is a nice video card. I like it... but it never made me go "oh my, how'd I ever live with a Voodoo 3???" or anything like some would have liked you to believe.
Honestly, I never really understood the kids that were screaming and hollering about the different video cards... it seems kind of childish to me. Why waste so much of ones time devoted to such a useless cause? I mean, and really... there never is THAT much of a difference. It's astounding what lengths that some will go to in deterring people from one video card, or trying to sell others on another. The video card companies seemed to really be playing people to this also... hey, free advertising I guess.
But I guess your right, it seems 3dfx isn't being beaten down to the ground by the chickadees of late... guess they found something else to scream about for now.
For me... I'm playing consoles again (Dreamcast is awesome!) and so I haven't upgraded (nor will I ever again probably with the Xbox and GC coming out next year) and haven't been on the lookout for the latest video cards or whatever anymore (thank God, this stuff is to expensive with a family and all).
But, I should say... this kiddie arguing isn't anything new, it was around on the consoles too...
Genesis/SNES - (virtually the same graphically, but people somehow have it in their minds one is/was *vastly* superior than the other. They weren't, it was all in their heads. Ask grandma which one was better in a side by side comparison... she probably couldn't tell any difference at all. It took a highly skilled trained eye).
TNT/Voodoo 3 - (same as above).
Expect to see it on the Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox and Gamecube in probably the biggest way ever, with the greatest amount of fervor ever.
I really don't know what the psychology is behind the loyalty one derives to a given product and why one will argue/defend in it's favor for no apparent reason other than to justify ones purchase. Perhaps it's deep in the male psyche or something. Maybe something like men not liking to ask for directions or whatever... who really knows. I would be interested in a professional study on it though (any college student here should take note to this subject matter, I doubt this has ever been done).
Really though, as smart as most of the techie's are here, it actually surprises me that they don't see their own ignorance and especially their immaturity towards this issue.
I guess men have to fight about something though... it's our duty or something, so what better way than on video cards? (sarcasm)
See how stupid that sounds?
It was actually kind of ironic. Anyhow... myself, after seeing the Voodoo 1 card run Tomb Ho (Dirk's label there) is what made me buy a PC (kind of a console gamer before that) and run out and put a Voodo card in it. Then I upgraded to a Voodoo 2, then eventually a Voodoo 3 (even though, when the V3 came out, the bashing had begun with the TNT crowd). But I really never saw much difference between a TNT and Voodoo 3, I looked them both over very carefully, and they both had there strengths and weaknesses, and one wasn't VASTLY superior to the other IMHO, so I went with the 3dfx because I knew them. No big deal to me really. But somehow, that supposedly made me a "zombie" or something to that effect. I really didn't care to be labeled like that, and my thoughts were that this had sprung from the kiddie arguments. Seemed pretty lame to me at the time, but who cares, I was just playing games.
After that though, after some more thorough research, I got me a GeForce. Not because of the incessant ranting's from the freaky anti 3dfx zealots, but because it was the best solution at that time (I still have it btw) and it was/is a nice video card. I like it... but it never made me go "oh my, how'd I ever live with a Voodoo 3???" or anything like some would have liked you to believe.
Honestly, I never really understood the kids that were screaming and hollering about the different video cards... it seems kind of childish to me. Why waste so much of ones time devoted to such a useless cause? I mean, and really... there never is THAT much of a difference. It's astounding what lengths that some will go to in deterring people from one video card, or trying to sell others on another. The video card companies seemed to really be playing people to this also... hey, free advertising I guess.
But I guess your right, it seems 3dfx isn't being beaten down to the ground by the chickadees of late... guess they found something else to scream about for now.
For me... I'm playing consoles again (Dreamcast is awesome!) and so I haven't upgraded (nor will I ever again probably with the Xbox and GC coming out next year) and haven't been on the lookout for the latest video cards or whatever anymore (thank God, this stuff is to expensive with a family and all).
But, I should say... this kiddie arguing isn't anything new, it was around on the consoles too...
Genesis/SNES - (virtually the same graphically, but people somehow have it in their minds one is/was *vastly* superior than the other. They weren't, it was all in their heads. Ask grandma which one was better in a side by side comparison... she probably couldn't tell any difference at all. It took a highly skilled trained eye).
TNT/Voodoo 3 - (same as above).
Expect to see it on the Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox and Gamecube in probably the biggest way ever, with the greatest amount of fervor ever.
I really don't know what the psychology is behind the loyalty one derives to a given product and why one will argue/defend in it's favor for no apparent reason other than to justify ones purchase. Perhaps it's deep in the male psyche or something. Maybe something like men not liking to ask for directions or whatever... who really knows. I would be interested in a professional study on it though (any college student here should take note to this subject matter, I doubt this has ever been done).
Really though, as smart as most of the techie's are here, it actually surprises me that they don't see their own ignorance and especially their immaturity towards this issue.
I guess men have to fight about something though... it's our duty or something, so what better way than on video cards? (sarcasm)
See how stupid that sounds?
Psychologically speaking, people almost invariably over time manage to justify even what we would think their mistakes, to themselves. It causes less cognitive dissonance or anxiety. It's completely widespread and not particular to computers at all.
And of course, yes, a lot of people remain ignorant about the other video cards anyway!
Some people had to bash Voodoo as if they were actually telling us something we didn't know about the relative performance. They wished to try to dominate the Voodoo owners. Simple macho silliness.
My impression was that 3dfx were quite pragmatic in what features they included and what they didn't. I think the V5 has very good FSAA or Tbuffer. But the fact that 3dfx need two chips and 64Mb whereas Geforce GTS outperforms it with one shows clearly who is better at R&D. And I think guys like Bubba did annoy people here. If 3dfx keeps going on and on about frame rates, then when they get beat they try to tell us that frame rates don't matter, that hypocrisy annoys people.
And of course, yes, a lot of people remain ignorant about the other video cards anyway!
Some people had to bash Voodoo as if they were actually telling us something we didn't know about the relative performance. They wished to try to dominate the Voodoo owners. Simple macho silliness.
My impression was that 3dfx were quite pragmatic in what features they included and what they didn't. I think the V5 has very good FSAA or Tbuffer. But the fact that 3dfx need two chips and 64Mb whereas Geforce GTS outperforms it with one shows clearly who is better at R&D. And I think guys like Bubba did annoy people here. If 3dfx keeps going on and on about frame rates, then when they get beat they try to tell us that frame rates don't matter, that hypocrisy annoys people.
I have a quick questions about the v5 5500. How is the win2k support. The reason i ask is that i have heard the nvidia win2k support is better than the others and this would be a big purchasing desicion.
Thanks
Thanks
But, with all due respect... who cares? I really don't care about trivialities such as those. I mean, if I looked at what companies claim and say to get you to buy their product, I'd never buy anything.
I'm a pretty shallow guy, so I just look at the product itself and separate myself from anything else... and really, anything else just seems immature to me. Especially going out of your way to try and convince a whole forum towards your line of thinking. But moreover, spending a lot of your free time into accomplishing just that. I've seen quite a few around here seemingly give up their social lives during points in time just to see to it that 3dfx "dies" or whatever. That is just sad. In a cold hearted way, I look at that and say to myself... "that person needs to get a life".
I'm a pretty shallow guy, so I just look at the product itself and separate myself from anything else... and really, anything else just seems immature to me. Especially going out of your way to try and convince a whole forum towards your line of thinking. But moreover, spending a lot of your free time into accomplishing just that. I've seen quite a few around here seemingly give up their social lives during points in time just to see to it that 3dfx "dies" or whatever. That is just sad. In a cold hearted way, I look at that and say to myself... "that person needs to get a life".
Its not really a 3dfx or an NVidia thing that is hurting this board. The real problem is the "fan-mentality" that is pervasive across many posts here. It means that people are biased and easily offended when others don't share their viewpoints. Its not alot of fun interacting with such people.
Napalm
Napalm
hanpan, win2k support started off kinda rough, but go to NT Compatible 3dfx FAQ and 3dSpotlight and voodoosource and you'll find all you need for the 5500. With DX8 + new drivers (1.04), the 5500 has VASTLY improved thier win2k performance
chad, you are forgetting those ignorant voodoo fanboys. unlike robo or dave, they would just say "fsck all others voodoo is the best!" that was freakin annoyin... the problem was there were quite few of thsoe bastards out there, which ticked the hell out of people.
Yeah, I'm sorry... I wasn't only including Nvidia, Matrox, ATI fans etc... it was on both sides of the fences for sure.
I was only menaing the fanboyism as a whole was immature (exactly what you are speaking of with some of the 3dfx fanboys).
But, overall my point was that it got to the extreme against 3dfx that it seemed like their product was unjustly mortified because of it.
That's all I was saying.
I was only menaing the fanboyism as a whole was immature (exactly what you are speaking of with some of the 3dfx fanboys).
But, overall my point was that it got to the extreme against 3dfx that it seemed like their product was unjustly mortified because of it.
That's all I was saying.
But the fact that 3dfx need two chips and 64Mb whereas Geforce GTS outperforms it with one shows clearly who is better at R&D.
It's that kind of ignorant talk that brings out the flame wars. How does that show nVidia is better at R&D? It doesn't. It just shows that 3dfx and nVidia chose to go in separate directions when it came to their tech. 3dfx went with a dual-chip solution, expecting high memory prices for DDR, while nVidia went for the all-in-one, perhaps because they didn't have enough time to develop a SLI solution, which 3dfx already had. Either way, they bet on different supplies. But the fact that 3dfx can sell a two-chip 64MB card for the same price as nVidia's one-chip 32MB card shows that they know a little something about what they were doing.
I think the 3D tide is turning because we want cheap prices, and the way to that is competition, so we bolster the underdog (currently 3dfx). Still, the market is much better now that ATi has a competitive solution. I'm looking forward to many more advances with the next round of chips because of the great competition going. Ultimately, we benefit from healthy competition. otherwise, we get a Creative, who hasn't done squat with their sound cards since Aureal caved, other than building more proprietary functions into their cards to tie in with Cambridge SoundWorks, now that they've bought them.
It's that kind of ignorant talk that brings out the flame wars. How does that show nVidia is better at R&D? It doesn't. It just shows that 3dfx and nVidia chose to go in separate directions when it came to their tech. 3dfx went with a dual-chip solution, expecting high memory prices for DDR, while nVidia went for the all-in-one, perhaps because they didn't have enough time to develop a SLI solution, which 3dfx already had. Either way, they bet on different supplies. But the fact that 3dfx can sell a two-chip 64MB card for the same price as nVidia's one-chip 32MB card shows that they know a little something about what they were doing.
I think the 3D tide is turning because we want cheap prices, and the way to that is competition, so we bolster the underdog (currently 3dfx). Still, the market is much better now that ATi has a competitive solution. I'm looking forward to many more advances with the next round of chips because of the great competition going. Ultimately, we benefit from healthy competition. otherwise, we get a Creative, who hasn't done squat with their sound cards since Aureal caved, other than building more proprietary functions into their cards to tie in with Cambridge SoundWorks, now that they've bought them.
MGallik
Golden Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 1,787
- 4
- 81
There are also those like myself, who've just turned down an IT position
at Argonne National Labs, that read reviews on products from literally every
site on the web we can find.
I have neither the time, nor inclination to chase down links to disprove
the twisted statements of the (for the most part) teenage zealots.
We do, on occasion, jump in with a few "one liners" in the hope that it may
help the wacko to slow down and realize it's only a "product", that someone
is painting in the best possible light, to sell for a profit.
Anyone, with any real amount of functional literacy, can discern the
direction of a web sites bend (preference for product X) within a few
paragraphs. Shouldnt that also be mentioned in the argument? Of course,
thats a whole new rant in and of itself, isnt it?
One would have to actually write a book in the thread to cover every
base, to totally kill the zealots every twist and turn. But then, of
course, the next just pipes in, with that all to familiar blank stare,
"Yeah, well, it just sucks!"
edit) spelling
at Argonne National Labs, that read reviews on products from literally every
site on the web we can find.
I have neither the time, nor inclination to chase down links to disprove
the twisted statements of the (for the most part) teenage zealots.
We do, on occasion, jump in with a few "one liners" in the hope that it may
help the wacko to slow down and realize it's only a "product", that someone
is painting in the best possible light, to sell for a profit.
Anyone, with any real amount of functional literacy, can discern the
direction of a web sites bend (preference for product X) within a few
paragraphs. Shouldnt that also be mentioned in the argument? Of course,
thats a whole new rant in and of itself, isnt it?
One would have to actually write a book in the thread to cover every
base, to totally kill the zealots every twist and turn. But then, of
course, the next just pipes in, with that all to familiar blank stare,
"Yeah, well, it just sucks!"
edit) spelling
I'm sorry if anyone found my R&D quote stupid! I fingered it from a magazine PC PRO, one of the most boring computer magazines. Actually they were writing about the MAXX at the time I think. It was more like "With Nvidia leading the way in speed with a single chip it is clear who is in front of the performance market".
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,789
- 6,349
- 126
Everyone has missed why 3dfx is suddenly more acceptable, it's the V5 5500's recent price drop. There is a recent influx of 5500 owners(myself included) who finally see why this is one awesome card. Add to that months of posts from former GF2 owners(who have flocked mostly to the Radeon) and you suddenly have a situation where Nvidia fans can no longer comfortably claim Nvidia's dominance. After the initial fanwars wore off, the weaknesses of the GF2 became well known which left a wake of dissatisfied GF2 owners and a second more sober look at what was available. Hence, the 5500 and Radeon are now as fashionable as the GF2.
"I'M THE REASON 3DFX IS GETTING GOOD PRESS HERE!! I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY!!!" --RoboTECH
Sorry man, but its all MY doing!!!
Sorry man, but its all MY doing!!!
"I remember when EVERYONE bashed the V5 constantly and held the GTS high above it. Lately, especially with the new drivers and the price reductions, it seems to me that more people are supporting the V5 than before, anyone else notice this?"
There isn't any more V5 supporters now(or very few), they just are more vocal and coming out of the Video forum(Robo and Wingznut spring to mind, things have died down over there and picked up here). I highly doubt it could be the price drop, the GF2 still is cheaper, just as much now as it was when the V5 first shipped. Perhaps with the new drivers the V5 owners are feeling they have a second wind and have had their defensive postures bolstered.
I think having Dave around helps many of the more reserved members out. Most of the guys who will enter into 100+(200+ and 300+ in some cases) post arguments are over in the video card forum or have already stated their view on the subject if they frequent GH. Now with Dave around, many of the V5 owners have seen that they have someone to back them with a great deal of technical knowledge.
I also think that most of the 3dfx backers suffer from paranoia. Take an honest look through the threads, there has always been more nVidia bashing, and ATi bashing for that matter, then there has been aimed at 3dfx. The majority of monster anti-3dfx threads start when Bubba opens his mouth, and unlike someone tried to falsely claim above, nVidia did get a very hostile response last time their PR department stepped out of line.
There isn't any more V5 supporters now(or very few), they just are more vocal and coming out of the Video forum(Robo and Wingznut spring to mind, things have died down over there and picked up here). I highly doubt it could be the price drop, the GF2 still is cheaper, just as much now as it was when the V5 first shipped. Perhaps with the new drivers the V5 owners are feeling they have a second wind and have had their defensive postures bolstered.
I think having Dave around helps many of the more reserved members out. Most of the guys who will enter into 100+(200+ and 300+ in some cases) post arguments are over in the video card forum or have already stated their view on the subject if they frequent GH. Now with Dave around, many of the V5 owners have seen that they have someone to back them with a great deal of technical knowledge.
I also think that most of the 3dfx backers suffer from paranoia. Take an honest look through the threads, there has always been more nVidia bashing, and ATi bashing for that matter, then there has been aimed at 3dfx. The majority of monster anti-3dfx threads start when Bubba opens his mouth, and unlike someone tried to falsely claim above, nVidia did get a very hostile response last time their PR department stepped out of line.
One thing that a lot of you seem to forget is that the geforce 2 gts was released MONTHS before the voodoo 5500. For the Voodoo 5500 to be released after the geforce 2 gts and still perform worse all around and still be priced more (however slightly) is a shame!
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