The Times They Are A-Changin'

[Zorkorist]

Hint, Obama's health plan is not the solution.

We need to get back to basics... hard work, straight language; government, lawyers, and insurance companies be damned.

 

[dmcowen674]

The New York Times had an epiphany today. Someone woke up and realized that we're in financial trouble.

Wave of Debt Payments Facing U.S. Government


The thread continues to unravel for this administration.

and the country was perfectly ok up until Obama took office in January eh?

Why do you hate America? Why are you here?

 

[Zorkorist]

The interesting point in this thread is that it seems President Obama's honeymoon is over.

I'm just hoping it is enough to stem the tide of Health Care Reform.

 

[TruePaige]

If you shat million dollar bills your hole would still be sore when all was said and done..and you'd have nothing left to wipe with.

Pssh..million dollar skidmarks could be all the dirty money this country needs.

 

[ebaycj]

this.

the new king is the same as the old king. but spending is really out of control. then again it would be nice if politicians were honest and no so damn corrupt.

Let's start by getting them to be actually somewhat interested in what their constituents want.

Outlawing lobbying of any kind, outlawing special interest groups (swift-boat ads), and limiting political donations to $1000 per individual / organization, would be a good start.

 

[StageLeft]

When debt growth exceeds income growth long-term, you will have a come to Jesus. The US is simply putting its awakening off and the longer it goes the rougher it's going to be. Nobody would argue that somebody taking out more and more debt to maintain their personal living standards is going to have a problem down the road, and it will get worse as time gets on, but since nobody specifically _owns_ the US debt, the tragedy of the commons mindset comes into play and it's just kicked down the road.

The only way this debt would make sense is if it was going to have a break even or net pay off, but since it's not being used to invest into money-making schemes (like power savings, infrastructure or whatever) and simply "cost of living", like social security, medicare, military, the longer this goes on the more it's going to hurt down the road as taxes either go up or standard of living goes down. It quite literally is borrowing from future productivity.

There is an essential problem with the democratic system in the way it works now in that those who can vote are able to exert themselves upon those who don't. In this case debt is passed onto kids, or it's used up by people (e.g. seniors) who can vote for spending now but soon enough will die, but their debt won't. Wouldn't we have a problem if adults were able to legally garnish wages from their children? How is this different?

And the reason the public doesn't care about this is because they are not convinced. Case in point their own finances: debt ridden is how they live. They do not understand a better way and thus do not demand it from their leaders. Financial ignorance is rampant from the worker's paycheck up to the top.

 

[Pneumothorax]

And the reason the public doesn't care about this is because they are not convinced. Case in point their own finances: debt ridden is how they live. They do not understand a better way and thus do not demand it from their leaders. Financial ignorance is rampant from the worker's paycheck up to the top.

Yup, this is how slowly the majority of the US will live. So, they elect people who are just like them, spend your way out of bankruptcy. Remember folks, just like a significant other, people get the government they think they deserve.

 

[Mursilis]

Let's start by getting them to be actually somewhat interested in what their constituents want.

Outlawing lobbying of any kind, outlawing special interest groups (swift-boat ads), and limiting political donations to $1000 per individual / organization, would be a good start.

Too bad that silly ol' First Amendment gets in the way of a lot of that.

Edit: And BTW, "what their constituents want" is usually unsustainable - high-value benefits paid for with low-level taxes (and tons of debt). Skoorbs' right - most people are financial morons, and vote for the same. Politicians are corrupt because that's the only kind we'll elect. We can't handle the truth, and don't want to hear it.

 

[Chunkee]

Another right-wing rag posting scare tactics and lies!

Yeah, go ahead and think that. Greatest achievement of the devil was convincing people he did not exist.

Scare tactics? No, what is really scary is what data is NOT divulged? What is not spoken or told... This public tabloid items are usually just the tip of the iceberg.

Go ahead and think its all propaganda...and when China quits loaning us money, or you start seeing skyscrapers and utility companies with the red star on them...perhaps you will be SCARED enough.

 

[CPA]

I'm just waiting for someone to say they are just going to write off the debt, in essence bailing themselves out.

Hey, if we're lucky maybe the IMF, Amnesty International and other groups will ask China and others to forgive our debt, just like they asked us to do for South and Central American countries in the late 80s, early 90s. Tit for tat, right?

 

[TruePaige]

Hey, if we're lucky maybe the IMF, Amnesty International and other groups will ask China and others to forgive our debt, just like they asked us to do for South and Central American countries in the late 80s, early 90s. Tit for tat, right?

:biggrin:

Fair is fair!

 

[werepossum]

Yeah, go ahead and think that. Greatest achievement of the devil was convincing people he did not exist.

Scare tactics? No, what is really scary is what data is NOT divulged? What is not spoken or told... This public tabloid items are usually just the tip of the iceberg.

Go ahead and think its all propaganda...and when China quits loaning us money, or you start seeing skyscrapers and utility companies with the red star on them...perhaps you will be SCARED enough.

Dude, that was clearly sarcasm. Turn your detector on.

I'm looking for a big rate jump on short-term T-bills in the next few months, and long-term T-bills are pretty much gone as a significant part of financing our debt. The world recession is pretty much over, at least the worst of it, and the USA is no longer (apparently) the safest place to park money. In fact, there of places one can invest money and actually even expect a return on it. We're facing inflation and possibly even default in the coming years. The only tool the Democrats have is raising taxes, first on the rich and business, then inevitably on the middle class, thus removing money from the economy. And tax increases trickle down a hell of a lot faster than does wealth or even tax breaks.

 

[Mursilis]

Dude, that was clearly sarcasm. Turn your detector on.

I'm looking for a big rate jump on short-term T-bills in the next few months, and long-term T-bills are pretty much gone as a significant part of financing our debt. The world recession is pretty much over, at least the worst of it, and the USA is no longer (apparently) the safest place to park money. In fact, there of places one can invest money and actually even expect a return on it. We're facing inflation and possibly even default in the coming years. The only tool the Democrats have is raising taxes, first on the rich and business, then inevitably on the middle class, thus removing money from the economy. And tax increases trickle down a hell of a lot faster than does wealth or even tax breaks.

The Dems won't raise taxes by significant amounts, if only because they, like any other politicians of whatever party, don't want to be voted out of office, and raising taxes is a sure-way recipe for defeat. Everyone (even those people who pay no income taxes at all) thinks they're over-taxed but under-served. The Dems will just keep piling on the debt until we hit default. The GOP would do the same.

 

[werepossum]

The Dems won't raise taxes by significant amounts, if only because they, like any other politicians of whatever party, don't want to be voted out of office, and raising taxes is a sure-way recipe for defeat. Everyone (even those people who pay no income taxes at all) thinks they're over-taxed but under-served. The Dems will just keep piling on the debt until we hit default. The GOP would do the same.

Maybe, but several Dem senators have already said that if Obama sends more troops to Afghanistan, then they are going to introduce a surcharge tax on high earners to finance it. Democrats want high taxes on high incomes not just as a means of financing, but also as a matter of morality, which is why I think they're going to raise taxes. But that's a guess, you may be right.

 

[Specop 007]

OK I guess you have the answers for all the problems then?

Cut all the enabling welfare handouts and wealth redistribution programs by half.

Yeah, that'd be a good start. Course then lazy welfare moms would have to actually get a job. Damn wouldnt that be a terrible thing.

 

[StageLeft]

Everyone (even those people who pay no income taxes at all) thinks they're over-taxed but under-served.

This

 

[Jaskalas]

So we need the party of No to lead us to the promise land?

When spending is a problem, not spending is the solution. I can see the disconnect there, seeing as you're spending other people's money and all. Who wouldn't want the free ride to continue?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Cut all the enabling welfare handouts and wealth redistribution programs by half.

Yeah, that'd be a good start. Course then lazy welfare moms would have to actually get a job. Damn wouldnt that be a terrible thing.

Yeah, buddy ... let's kick around those lazy 'welfare mothers'. That is clearly where the problem lies.

You have now, officially, been hoisted by your own canard. Feel free to cling to your guns and religion.

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[Specop 007]

Yeah, buddy ... let's kick around those lazy 'welfare mothers'. That is clearly where the problem lies.

You have now, officially, been hoisted by your own canard. Feel free to cling to your guns and religion.

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Well, you certainly have a valid counter point. I submit. Clearly the answer is to simply tax the working folks more and more.

 

[alchemize]

The only politically expedient way out is to *really* print money at some point in the future, and deflate the debt away. I wonder if China would go to war with us over that.

 

[BoberFett]

OK I guess you have the answers for all the problems then?

The answer has been there for hundreds of years. It's called a limited federal government. When those limits went out the window, so did this country's future.

 

[BoberFett]

You have now, officially, been hoisted by your own canard. Feel free to cling to your guns and religion.

What does a duck have to do with anything, moron?

 

[PingSpike]

The only politically expedient way out is to *really* print money at some point in the future, and deflate the debt away. I wonder if China would go to war with us over that.

Just threaten to nuke the shit out of them. I mean, if we're going to be huge dicks we might as well go all out.

 

[Robor]

Cut all the enabling welfare handouts and wealth redistribution programs by half.

Yeah, that'd be a good start. Course then lazy welfare moms would have to actually get a job. Damn wouldnt that be a terrible thing.

Cut war mongering and nation building defense spending in half while you're at it.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Yeah, go ahead and think that. Greatest achievement of the devil was convincing people he did not exist.

Scare tactics? No, what is really scary is what data is NOT divulged? What is not spoken or told... This public tabloid items are usually just the tip of the iceberg.

Go ahead and think its all propaganda...and when China quits loaning us money, or you start seeing skyscrapers and utility companies with the red star on them...perhaps you will be SCARED enough.

Might want the check the batteries.