The Three Easy Steps to Avoid Poverty

[Svnla]

In every single conversation ( especially involving social justice warriors) asians get pilled into the white bucket and not considered "minority", simply because it does go against the dogma of "it's racism" that the SJW crowd wishes to push.

It's the type of escapism that's rampant these days - it's a lot easier to blame some external agent - be it a flag, law enforcement, nebulous discriminatory system - than to do an honest introspection. I suppose with the latter, you run the risk of finding you, yourself, are at fault.

I just saw this article today, WH summit that whined and bitched about racial bias = https://www.yahoo.com/politics/at-white-house-summit-tech-entrepreneurs-talk-of-125967206571.html


and ignored how Asians (more minority (single digit in US population) than blacks (double digits) and hispanics (double digits)) are occupying double digits in tech companies = http://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-forest/index.ssf/2015/05/asian_americans_play_big_role.html

Darn those Asians, acting white and sold out to whities. 😀

No bias toward Asians? = http://www.mercurynews.com/business...assed-over-management-roles-at-silicon-valley

 

[Paratus]

These charts do show that ,which is why I am trying to beat a dead horse apparently. True, racism plays a part but I don't think it is the dominating factor. Are Philly and Baltimore such racist cities? They have a great mix of races/ethnicities. Asians succeed there and they are the minority.

Direct Link to the Study

They did look at the difference by city:

In fact, the differences hold up across many different cities. In almost every city we examined, the proportion of blacks who follow all the norms that reach the middle class is well below the proportion of white norm-adherents who do so, often by 10 percentage points or more.

You might also include get married. Single parents or households with one income are particularly vulnerable to cases of job loss. This is what makes certain demograpic groups who tend to have single parent families appear to be more poor. Marriage is beneficial in many ways.

I actually forgot this part. The third was wait for kids until 21 and married. I fixed the OP.

Didn't read the study so forgive me if this has already been addressed in it, but I imagine the fact that prior generations of blacks not being able to pass on estates (i.e. unable to legally own title to property due to Jim Crow/Reconstruction ancestors) plays a huge part in this. For example, my father inherited a little bit of wealth from his parents via property and assets, helping get us through a difficult financial stretch in my childhood. His parents inherited a nice sum themselves during the Depression, enabling them to eventually pass on those assets to my father.

Overall, this generational wealth will be almost invaluable to millennials like myself. While I could survive well without it, I will certainly now be able to pass on substantially more wealth to my son, ultimately because greatparents were successful enough (and fortunate enough) not to be racially discriminated against. From the perspective of an African American, I find this generational wealth to be an immense privilege, something I cannot and have not taken lightly or for granted. In many ways, my great fortune was winning the genetic lottery, in the sense that I was lucky enough not to be discriminated against as a Caucasian.

In the link above the author links to mobility and historical issues minority populations have had trying to live in upwardly mobile areas, political / law issues, worse schools, etc.

 

[Paratus]

I just saw this article today, WH summit that whined and bitched about racial bias = https://www.yahoo.com/politics/at-white-house-summit-tech-entrepreneurs-talk-of-125967206571.html


and ignored how Asians (more minority (single digit in US population) than blacks (double digits) and hispanics (double digits)) are occupying double digits in tech companies = http://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-forest/index.ssf/2015/05/asian_americans_play_big_role.html

Darn those Asians, acting white and sold out to whities. 😀

No bias toward Asians? = http://www.mercurynews.com/business...assed-over-management-roles-at-silicon-valley

Your article(s) says Asians are being passed over for management positions and all minorities are being discriminated against from entrepreneurial funding.

So thanks for providing more evidence of structural discrimination preventing Americans from reaching similar outcomes for similar effort. I'm not sure that's what you meant, but that's what your sources say. 😉

 

[werepossum]

Can you say oversimplification batman?

Incredible simplification. "Get a full time job" assumes that all full time jobs are equal and thus that the kid who graduated barely able to spell his own name and the kid who graduated as a highly desirable and partially trained electrical worker apprenticeship candidate are on equal footing. If you have no marketable skills, getting a full time job may be a major hurdle, and getting a good full time job may be virtually impossible. Unless you follow our manufacturing to China anyway.

 

[Paratus]

Incredible simplification. "Get a full time job" assumes that all full time jobs are equal and thus that the kid who graduated barely able to spell his own name and the kid who graduated as a highly desirable and partially trained electrical worker apprenticeship candidate are on equal footing. If you have no marketable skills, getting a full time job may be a major hurdle, and getting a good full time job may be virtually impossible. Unless you follow our manufacturing to China anyway.

Right so 2% are still poor and another 25% are between the poverty level and mid class at %300 the poverty level. One of these is where your hypothetical would end up.


Did you look at the charts?

 

[Svnla]

Your article(s) says Asians are being passed over for management positions and all minorities are being discriminated against from entrepreneurial funding.

So thanks for providing more evidence of structural discrimination preventing Americans from reaching similar outcomes for similar effort. I'm not sure that's what you meant, but that's what your sources say. 😉

Very simple to understand.

Article 1 stated many whined and complained about racial bias against minorities (funny how they ignored Asians from the article) from tech companies at the WH summit and tried to blame bias as the reason for low number of blacks and hispanics at tech companies (low digit) yet Article 2 shown there are many Asians in tech companies (double digits representation). Last time I check, Asians = minority group, more minority (6%) than blacks (12%) and hispanic (16% and growing fast) (in overall US population).

Article 3 shown that Asians faced bias too yet they don't whine and bitch as certain demographic groups.

 

[werepossum]

I think the unsaid step 0 is start out middle class.
As my dad always said, if you want to make a small fortune it is best to start with a large one.

😀 +1

Right so 2% are still poor and another 25% are between the poverty level and mid class at %300 the poverty level. One of these is where your hypothetical would end up.

Did you look at the charts?

I did, but I think you miss my point. Your study is greatly oversimplified because it is designed to find what it found, institutional racism. Many, many black people are stuck growing up in dysfunctional schools that wouldn't even merit the title except for a sign. Not being able to afford housing in districts with good schools, they are doubly disadvantaged, typically being poorly educated and forced to raise their children poorly educated as well. School choice (in conjunction with effective discipline) could solve this for those children with parents who care and are willing to make the sacrifices needed to send their kids to a good school - which I believe would be a majority of kids in failing schools. Unfortunately the left treats public education as a jobs program and adamantly opposes school choice. But if you force so many black kids to be in very poor schools, don't cry racism when they cannot compete.

TL/DR: Graduating without marketable skills is more than simply a life choice or a lack of intelligence. It's also a reflection of the available education.

 

[highland145]

I did, but I think you miss my point. Your study is greatly oversimplified because it is designed to find what it found, institutional racism. Many, many black people are stuck growing up in dysfunctional schools that wouldn't even merit the title except for a sign. Not being able to afford housing in districts with good schools, they are doubly disadvantaged, typically being poorly educated and forced to raise their children poorly educated as well. School choice (in conjunction with effective discipline) could solve this for those children with parents who care and are willing to make the sacrifices needed to send their kids to a good school - which I believe would be a majority of kids in failing schools. Unfortunately the left treats public education as a jobs program and adamantly opposes school choice. But if you force so many black kids to be in very poor schools, don't cry racism when they cannot compete.

TL/DR: Graduating without marketable skills is more than simply a life choice or a lack of intelligence. It's also a reflection of the available education.

Truth speaking again.

 

[fskimospy]

So as a fun experiment: what would a study look like that would prove racism to you guys? Be specific.

It is always amusing to watch people twist into pretzels to pretend otherwise.

 

[Paratus]

Very simple to understand.

Article 1 stated many whined and complained about racial bias against minorities (funny how they ignored Asians from the article) from tech companies at the WH summit and tried to blame bias as the reason for low number of blacks and hispanics at tech companies (low digit) yet Article 2 shown there are many Asians in tech companies (double digits representation). Last time I check, Asians = minority group, more minority (6%) than blacks (12%) and hispanic (16% and growing fast) (in overall US population).

Article 3 shown that Asians faced bias too yet they don't whine and bitch as certain demographic groups.

So basically you want to denigrate which demographic "whines" the most about discrimination and then after proving Asians are a discriminated against minority you hold them up as the ideal minority since they "take it" so well.

So tl:dr
Racists like races that don't complain about racism.

😀 +1


I did, but I think you miss my point. Your study is greatly oversimplified because it is designed to find what it found, institutional racism. Many, many black people are stuck growing up in dysfunctional schools that wouldn't even merit the title except for a sign. Not being able to afford housing in districts with good schools, they are doubly disadvantaged, typically being poorly educated and forced to raise their children poorly educated as well. School choice (in conjunction with effective discipline) could solve this for those children with parents who care and are willing to make the sacrifices needed to send their kids to a good school - which I believe would be a majority of kids in failing schools. Unfortunately the left treats public education as a jobs program and adamantly opposes school choice. But if you force so many black kids to be in very poor schools, don't cry racism when they cannot compete.

TL/DR: Graduating without marketable skills is more than simply a life choice or a lack of intelligence. It's also a reflection of the available education.

So why is this the case? Did a large portion of the African American community come to live in poor neighborhoods with bad schools in a vacuum? It's just a statistical anomaly?

What reasons would you ascribe to it?

 

[Svnla]

So basically you want to denigrate which demographic "whines" the most about discrimination and then after proving Asians are a discriminated against minority you hold them up as the ideal minority since they "take it" so well.

So tl:dr
Racists like races that don't complain about racism.

Are you that dense or are you playing stupid or are you showing your true color?

Read the 3 articles again.

Article 1 claimed racist bias against "minorities" (but totally ignored Asians in the article) yet article 2 shown Asians are doing very well in tech companies. Why is that? I am asking you WHY IS THAT? Why Asians are doing so well in tech companies and blacks and hispanics are not?

Article 3 shown of course we do not live in a perfect world, there are a lot of things to be done. Nothing to do about "take it" so well as you ignorant claimed. How about Asians are too busy to improve themselves/do something about it instead of blaming and bitching and crying, eh? Whine/bitch/cry = take it deep and unable to do a crap about it. That's pathetic and sad.

tdlr reading skill is good to have and stop putting your own words in my mouth.

 

[fskimospy]

Are you that dense or are you playing stupid or are you showing your true color?

Read the 3 articles again.

Article 1 claimed racist bias against "minorities" (but totally ignored Asians in the article) yet article 2 shown Asians are doing very well in tech companies. Why is that? I am asking you WHY IS THAT? Why Asians are doing so well and blacks and hispanics are not?

Article 3 shown of course we do not live in a perfect world, there are a lot of things to be done. Nothing to do about "take it" so well as you ignorant claimed. How about Asians are too busy to improve themselves/do something about it instead of blaming and bitching and crying, eh?

tdlr reading skill is good to have.

This has been brought up time and again. Why is it that if Asians don't suffer economic discrimination mean that other minorities don't? I can't think of any logical argument for that.

 

[fskimospy]

Although can I say it is not at all surprising that yet again a board populated by upper middle class white men struggles to see racism in society.

Do you guys think it is because of your superior analytic ability? Or?

 

[Svnla]

This has been brought up time and again. Why is it that if Asians don't suffer economic discrimination mean that other minorities don't? I can't think of any logical argument for that.

This is what I have to say.

Why Asians are doing so well in tech companies and blacks and hispanics are not?

Asians faced bias too. See article #3 from my previous post.

 

[fskimospy]

This is what I have to say.


Asians faced bias too. See article #3 from my previous post.

Have Asians faced the same bias?

If not, what's your point.

If so, where's your data? (Edit: your article comes nowhere close to the same systemic bias)

Pretty simple.

 

[Svnla]

Have Asians faced the same bias?

If not, what's your point.

If so, where's your data?

Pretty simple.

You don't or can't answer my question and you want me to answer your questions? LOL.

See article #3 above about how Asians faced bias/discrimination too. Also, Asians don't have/don't need affirmative actions programs and other set aside programs yet they are still doing a lot better than blacks and hispanics. Why is that? Hummmm.

 

[fskimospy]

You don't or can't answer my question and you want me to answer your questions? LOL.

See article #3 above about how Asians faced bias/discrimination too.

See my edit. What you cited isn't even remotely close to the bias that's been attributed to black and Hispanic people.

It appears to be a non experimental study based around analyzing trends. It's nowhere close to the studies that have shown anti-black racism.

Again, if you want to argue they are the same show how. (You won't, because you can't )

 

[Paratus]

Are you that dense or are you playing stupid or are you showing your true color?

Read the 3 articles again.

Article 1 claimed racist bias against "minorities" (but totally ignored Asians in the article) yet article 2 shown Asians are doing very well in tech companies. Why is that? I am asking you WHY IS THAT? Why Asians are doing so well in tech companies and blacks and hispanics are not?

Article 3 shown of course we do not live in a perfect world, there are a lot of things to be done. Nothing to do about "take it" so well as you ignorant claimed. How about Asians are too busy to improve themselves/do something about it instead of blaming and bitching and crying, eh?

tdlr reading skill is good to have and stop putting your own words in my mouth.

From your link

Asian Americans make up about 5 percent of the nation's population. But Asians comprise more than 25 percent of the professionals working at the tech companies Ascend studied – and more than 30 percent at Intel.

Yet just 17 percent of Intel's executives are Asian. And the percentages fall the higher you go in the chipmaker's hierarchy: Just two of Intel's top 20 executives are Asian or of Asian descent, and just one of its 11 board members is Asian.

I don't have to put any words in your mouth. Your position is quite clear

By doing well you mean they have technical jobs at Intel and other tech companies. But by your own link they don't do as well as whites when it comes to upper management.

The fact that you think being systemically passed over for promotion is fine as long as there's no whining really says a lot about your position.


But hey let's look at why you might be confused as to why Asians do "better".

Svnla
Are Asians the same minority as African Americans?
Do they have the same shared history in this country?
Is all discrimination the same?


The answers to these are fairly obvious. The fact that you even asked the questions either means you're trolling or you actually consider different minorities to be essentially the same.......

Why don't you stop playing dumb about your position and just own it.

 

[werepossum]

So as a fun experiment: what would a study look like that would prove racism to you guys? Be specific.

It is always amusing to watch people twist into pretzels to pretend otherwise.

I think it was you that linked a study comparing call-back rates for identical resumes for generic white-sounding or black-sounding names. That seems pretty cut and dried. Beyond that, it would certainly be helpful to not pretend that all high school educations and all full time jobs are equivalent. Where one grows up massively affects one's educational and employment opportunities.

SNIP
So why is this the case? Did a large portion of the African American community come to live in poor neighborhoods with bad schools in a vacuum? It's just a statistical anomaly?

What reasons would you ascribe to it?

Four main reasons. First, Jim Crow laws and similar systematic and systemic racial discrimination. Although that ended a long time ago, it still materially affects what any individual begins life with, and that's one of if not the main determinant of relative success in life. Second, the well-meaning progressive programs of the sixties devastated the black family by making fathers not only redundant but actually harmful as far as getting free government stuff. The same programs are doing the same to other races of course, but having started out much poorer on average (slavery, Jim Crow, racism) blacks found such programs more attractive and more easily obtained. (Which is not surprising since these programs were largely designed to counter the lingering effects of slavery, Jim Crow, and racism.) Third, there are counterproductive cultural elements which are more prevalent among black people than among other races. If one has visible prison-style tats, one's chances of being selected for most jobs drops considerably. And fourth, racism; people are less likely to take a chance on a black employee. Just because one particular study purporting to demonstrate racism is badly crafted has no effect on whether or not racism exists in our society.

In the sixties government began building massive apartment complexes which were nicer than what many (perhaps most) people could afford. Rents were partially or fully subsidized. Black people were the main target for this. Initially this worked well, but a couple unintended consequences soured the mash. First, the people in control pitied the black people flocking into these complexes. Pity is corrosive, and assuming that black people couldn't behave led to these complexes becoming hellholes where cops only tread in mass. Second, in an effort to be accountable intact families and men found it difficult to get qualified. Consequently poor young black women found that marriage brought a struggle to survive, whereas a child out of wedlock brought relative security - a steady check, food stamps, government health care, a home with rent paid each month by Uncle Sugar. Whether its elephants of humans, removing fathers tends to lead to poor results.

 

[werepossum]

Have Asians faced the same bias?

If not, what's your point.

If so, where's your data? (Edit: your article comes nowhere close to the same systemic bias)

Pretty simple.

But these things don't happen in a vacuum. Asians don't act white either - because they know white people are fat lazy bastards. Asians study harder and work harder; consequently they are preferentially hired and admitted to university. They aren't overly concerned with whether they are being disrespected, they don't cover themselves with tats, they just do the things that everyone in this nation used to value. If you are a young black man or woman who resembles Tiger Woods more than Snoop Dog, corporations will fall all over themselves hiring you if you are halfway qualified. Unfortunately such people have a difficult time even getting that interview, and yes, that's partially racism. But it's not all racism. The culture one embraces is entirely one's choice - culture itself is not racial, and Neil deGrasse Tyson's culture is every bit as much black culture as that of any of black person - and unfortunately we still have a lot of thinking in terms of group identity. That sucks for anyone better than the average of the group one gets shoved into.

 

[halik]

So as a fun experiment: what would a study look like that would prove racism to you guys? Be specific.

It is always amusing to watch people twist into pretzels to pretend otherwise.

Racism by whom towards whom? There's a whole bunch of data showing that whites certainly do have quite bit advantage - household net worth by race etc.

Show me a study showing crime conviction rates by race, controlled by income and priors and we can talk. Clearly that interview callback study shows there's disfavor to people that have "urban" names. I would be curious to see that for asian and indian names.

In the meanwhile, arguments like "x is underrepresented in y industry because the distribution doesn't match the population" will continue to be SJW vapidity.

 

[halik]

Although can I say it is not at all surprising that yet again a board populated by upper middle class white men struggles to see racism in society.

Do you guys think it is because of your superior analytic ability? Or?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy + AdHominen

It seems you are running out of rational arguments, sir.

 

[michal1980]

Direct Link to the Study

They did look at the difference by city:





I actually forgot this part. The third was wait for kids until 21 and married. I fixed the OP.


In the link above the author links to mobility and historical issues minority populations have had trying to live in upwardly mobile areas, political / law issues, worse schools, etc.

So ya, fuck the norms. Its just racism. Time to rob someone because it aint my fault I'm poor.

 

[fskimospy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy + AdHominen

It seems you are running out of rational arguments, sir.

That's not ad homenium.

 

[Subyman]

Both of them have abstracts you can read, which are like half a page long. Surely that's not too much.

In a nutshell, both experiments find that in randomized trials with employers black people are selected for employment significantly less often than white people even when their credentials are equivalent (or even superior). If that's not racism, I don't know what is.

I remember a study that sent off the exact same resume, the only change was the name. One was a white name and the other a black name. The resume with the white name was overwhelmingly chosen. We are talking about the exact same credentials under a different name. Perhaps that is the study you are showing in your link, I haven't looked at yours. Pretty sad.