The Three Easy Steps to Avoid Poverty

[fskimospy]

So is your conclusion that it must be racism? Any other factors that may contribute as to why people can't succeed?

I'm sure there are other factors, but racism definitely seems to be a big part:

http://paa2012.princeton.edu/papers/120818

http://scholar.harvard.edu/sendhil/...able-lakisha-and-jamal-field-experiment-labor

 

[JockoJohnson]

I'm open, what do you have?

Look at Philadelphia and Baltimore. Bastions of Democrats run mostly by black people. These cities have large amounts of black people doing just as good as the average or worse. Why are they doing so poor in cities where it is black led Democrat strongholds?

Are the politicians somehow now racist against their own race? Why hasn't there been a big improvement for the average black person there?

I am not stupid enough to say racism isn't causing problems to some degree for some black people somewhere in this country. But it certainly isn't a big contributing factor. If it was, I would think it would be more obvious. And the usual shills (Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson) would be right on top of it if it was so obvious.

 

[JockoJohnson]

I'm sure there are other factors, but racism definitely seems to be a big part:

http://paa2012.princeton.edu/papers/120818

http://scholar.harvard.edu/sendhil/...able-lakisha-and-jamal-field-experiment-labor

Just saw your post after replying. I am sorry, I am not going to read 42 pages on one link but the other doesn't explain how cities like Baltimore and Philly are doing so poor when white people are a minority.

I need cliff notes for the first link. I skimmed it though. Temple University is a large university in Philly and has a good portion of black students. I am sure that this isn't the only university like them.

My main point is why are Philadelphia and Baltimore not succeeding where the supposed racism shouldn't be there --- or at least not a main factor?

 

[Jhhnn]

Race and/or sex is not a hindrance in being hired and/or successful at the company where I work. Minorities and women are in senior executive positions.

That's obviously not universal.

 

[fskimospy]

Just saw your post after replying. I am sorry, I am not going to read 42 pages on one link but the other doesn't explain how cities like Baltimore and Philly are doing so poor when white people are a minority.

I need cliff notes for the first link. I skimmed it though. Temple University is a large university in Philly and has a good portion of black students. I am sure that this isn't the only university like them.

My main point is why are Philadelphia and Baltimore not succeeding where the supposed racism shouldn't be there --- or at least not a main factor?

Both of them have abstracts you can read, which are like half a page long. Surely that's not too much.

In a nutshell, both experiments find that in randomized trials with employers black people are selected for employment significantly less often than white people even when their credentials are equivalent (or even superior). If that's not racism, I don't know what is.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

That's obviously not universal.

Pretty much par for the course for large corporations in the US.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Both of them have abstracts you can read, which are like half a page long. Surely that's not too much.

In a nutshell, both experiments find that in randomized trials with employers black people are selected for employment significantly less often than white people even when their credentials are equivalent (or even superior). If that's not racism, I don't know what is.

Sorry, missed the abstract. I skimmed too quickly. I will reread.

And yes, I do agree that is racism. So is that the conclusion that you draw as it relates to cities that blacks are not the minority? I guess it is possible if there are a lot of non-black owned businesses that would discriminate against their potentially largest pool of applicants.
WTF are they even doing business in a city like those if they are going to be racist?

Edit: Read the abstract on the first and re-read abstract on 2nd. I am surprised by the results in Chicago and Boston. Evidence does show that racism is there. Now how about they run those "Name" tests in Baltimore and Philadelphia.

My point still stands: Why are Philly and Baltimore not doing better? Perhaps there is racism there as well.

 

[Pneumothorax]

Ceteris Paribus, that is. Which isn't the case in real life:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_gap_in_the_United_States

I would bet large amount of money if you create the same distributions in o/p for Asians, they'd dominate the other two cohorts.

I love how everyone ignored your post. Asians are the minority group (who are discriminated all the time BTW, as I've been told being 'slanty-eyed' 'beloved patriot' 'go back to China' in the past) that flies against the discrimination=poverty mantra. It's cultural and also natural selection has had more pressure on people who can't just walk over the border to get here, nor were we brought over by slave ships: you tend to get the best of the best who immigrate here...

 

[JockoJohnson]

I love how everyone ignored your post. Asians are the minority group (who are discriminated all the time BTW, as I've been told being 'slanty-eyed' 'beloved patriot' 'go back to China' in the past) that flies against the discrimination=poverty mantra.

These charts do show that ,which is why I am trying to beat a dead horse apparently. True, racism plays a part but I don't think it is the dominating factor. Are Philly and Baltimore such racist cities? They have a great mix of races/ethnicities. Asians succeed there and they are the minority.

 

[fskimospy]

I love how everyone ignored your post. Asians are the minority group (who are discriminated all the time BTW, as I've been told being 'slanty-eyed' 'beloved patriot' 'go back to China' in the past) that flies against the discrimination=poverty mantra. It's cultural and also natural selection has had more pressure on people who can't just walk over the border to get here, nor were we brought over by slave ships: you tend to get the best of the best who immigrate here...

Are you saying that economic discrimination against Asians is equal to that of black and hispanic people?

If you aren't, then that pretty much answers your question. If you are, what data is this based on?

 

[SMOGZINN]

My main point is why are Philadelphia and Baltimore not succeeding where the supposed racism shouldn't be there --- or at least not a main factor?

There are many reasons this could be the case. The first is that black people can be racists against other black people, especially the ones that rise to the top of a mostly white controlled system.

Next is that, as has already been pointed out in this thread, a good part of the discrimination comes in the form of the war on drugs and how unequally it affects black people. Neither of those cities have done much to change that.

Finally, there is only so much that local political leaders can do, they have limited power that is often overshadowed by state and national leaders. They have almost no ability to make any change in discriminatory business practices.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I love how everyone ignored your post. Asians are the minority group (who are discriminated all the time BTW, as I've been told being 'slanty-eyed' 'beloved patriot' 'go back to China' in the past) that flies against the discrimination=poverty mantra. It's cultural and also natural selection has had more pressure on people who can't just walk over the border to get here, nor were we brought over by slave ships: you tend to get the best of the best who immigrate here...

While there is discrimination against asians, it is a different kind of discrimination.
The main difference is in perception. The general perception of asians is that they are smart and highly motivated. This creates an entirely different set of expectations.

In some ways these prejudices can be just as deleterious to asians as the ones against blacks, but they tend to affect asians in social advancement rather than economic.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The American dream died before you or, the OP were born.

"Daddy!! I want to own an oil company when I grow up!!"

"That's great, son! You know, if you live in America, you can do . . ANY-thing!!"
:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[piasabird]

You might also include get married. Single parents or households with one income are particularly vulnerable to cases of job loss. This is what makes certain demograpic groups who tend to have single parent families appear to be more poor. Marriage is beneficial in many ways.

 

[shira]

That is bullshit.. I have all of these 3 yet it's been hard to get a full time well paying job since 2008. I've had to work in Singapore as they offered better pay and benefits than America.

Um, the chart tells us that 27% of whites and 41% of blacks are below the 300% income level even though they satisfy all three "norms." So you're a part of the 27% or 41%, depending on your race.

So how, exactly, is the chart "bullshit?" Are you saying that it's impossible for you to be a member of the 27%/41%?

Edit: And in your case, where you're finding it difficult to find full-time work, the second chart applies: Only 23%/11% of whites/blacks reach the 300% income threshold when they can't find full-time work but satisfy the other two "norms." So again, why is this chart "bullshit?"

 

[glenn1]

That is bullshit.. I have all of these 3 yet it's been hard to get a full time well paying job since 2008. I've had to work in Singapore as they offered better pay and benefits than America.

Necessary vs. sufficient; meeting those 3 thresholds doesn't guarantee you a middle class job. It just means you'll meet minimal qualification standards required for most employers to even get any position beyond the very most minimum wage/fast food type, and should allow you the opportunity to advance to a middle class level job. It doesn't mean you still won't screw up the second part if you're incompetent, can't muster minimal interpersonal skills, get caught in a drug test or have a DUI, etc.

 

[halik]

I love how everyone ignored your post. Asians are the minority group (who are discriminated all the time BTW, as I've been told being 'slanty-eyed' 'beloved patriot' 'go back to China' in the past) that flies against the discrimination=poverty mantra. It's cultural and also natural selection has had more pressure on people who can't just walk over the border to get here, nor were we brought over by slave ships: you tend to get the best of the best who immigrate here...

In every single conversation ( especially involving social justice warriors) asians get pilled into the white bucket and not considered "minority", simply because it does go against the dogma of "it's racism" that the SJW crowd wishes to push.

It's the type of escapism that's rampant these days - it's a lot easier to blame some external agent - be it a flag, law enforcement, nebulous discriminatory system - than to do an honest introspection. I suppose with the latter, you run the risk of finding you, yourself, are at fault.

 

[Indus]

What kind of work are you doing that a company in Singapore (A nation where there a view toward Westerners as being lazy and whiny by default though that is true for most of Asia) would hire you versus a US company here in the states?

Art director in advertising.

 

[First]

Didn't read the study so forgive me if this has already been addressed in it, but I imagine the fact that prior generations of blacks not being able to pass on estates (i.e. unable to legally own title to property due to Jim Crow/Reconstruction ancestors) plays a huge part in this. For example, my father inherited a little bit of wealth from his parents via property and assets, helping get us through a difficult financial stretch in my childhood. His parents inherited a nice sum themselves during the Depression, enabling them to eventually pass on those assets to my father.

Overall, this generational wealth will be almost invaluable to millennials like myself. While I could survive well without it, I will certainly now be able to pass on substantially more wealth to my son, ultimately because greatparents were successful enough (and fortunate enough) not to be racially discriminated against. From the perspective of an African American, I find this generational wealth to be an immense privilege, something I cannot and have not taken lightly or for granted. In many ways, my great fortune was winning the genetic lottery, in the sense that I was lucky enough not to be discriminated against as a Caucasian.

 

[First]

In every single conversation ( especially involving social justice warriors) asians get pilled into the white bucket and not considered "minority", simply because it does go against the dogma of "it's racism" that the SJW crowd wishes to push.

It's the type of escapism that's rampant these days - it's a lot easier to blame some external agent - be it a flag, law enforcement, nebulous discriminatory system - than to do an honest introspection. I suppose with the latter, you run the risk of finding you, yourself, are at fault.

Well the Asian community has an entirely different history, for one. I get there was certainly discriminatory practices like the Chinese Exclusion Act, Japanese internment in WWII, etc. While tragic, I think it's a whole other ball of wax compared to slavery. It also says something positive about many Asian cultures. If you want to blame some small aspect of corrosive black culture on their current plight, I won't begrudge you, but I would say it's certainly a small aspect of why black communities are the way they are. The far bigger issue with black communities is the prior multi-century enslavement/discrimination that was far more stark than what was experienced by Asian communities in the U.S. I can tell you firsthand that discrimination exists in spades today in plenty of urban locations.

 

[fskimospy]

In every single conversation ( especially involving social justice warriors) asians get pilled into the white bucket and not considered "minority", simply because it does go against the dogma of "it's racism" that the SJW crowd wishes to push.

It's the type of escapism that's rampant these days - it's a lot easier to blame some external agent - be it a flag, law enforcement, nebulous discriminatory system - than to do an honest introspection. I suppose with the latter, you run the risk of finding you, yourself, are at fault.

You realize that people can be racist against some races and not others, right?

I'm struggling to understand the argument that people aren't being racist against black people because they aren't being racist against asians.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Art director in advertising.

So when is your work pass up? Also very surprised you're living there considering Singapore's views/policies when in comes to LGBT.

 

[dank69]

It's clear the fourth easy step is don't be black.

 

[SMOGZINN]

It's clear the fourth easy step is don't be black.

I think the unsaid step 0 is start out middle class.
As my dad always said, if you want to make a small fortune it is best to start with a large one.

 

[MongGrel]

Your results can vary over time, even without kids.

But I guess I'm still not in poverty, by a long shot.