The Theory of Evolution

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Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
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Originally posted by: dannybin1742
... and with your lack of knowledge in organic demonstrated in the three other threads on this topic, i think you are lying

ding ding ding - i really think you've hit the nail on the head here. either he went through the worse chem program known to man or he never studied chem at all - hence the lack of ability to readily argue abiogenesis or understand what others are arguing.

i have to agree i find it unlikely that anyone without an advanced degree could take on a scientific lead - i've heard of plenty of people like this taking on higher management and administration positions but certainly not scientific/technical positions. my BS detector is going off like crazy.....
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
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This thread has turned comical. It's not surprsing that given the lack of evidence for evolution, you've resorted to personal attacks agaisnt me.

Macroevolution is a sham. If all life has evolved from a single-cell organism, the fossil record should be replete with transitional forms linking one species to another. It isn't. In fact, not a SINGLE transitional fossil has been uncovered. Rather, fossils appear suddenly, fully-formed, and are similar, if not identical to organisms living today.

This, of course begs the question of how the highly complex single cell organism formed in the first place.
 

Gamer X

Banned
Feb 11, 2005
769
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Hey, I am a living evidence of evolution. I just evolved from the pond of ooze
nearby 2 years ago and I can assure; EVOLUTION IS TRUE.
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
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0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
This thread has turned comical. It's not surprsing that given the lack of evidence for evolution, you've resorted to personal attacks agaisnt me.

Macroevolution is a sham. If all life has evolved from a single-cell organism, the fossil record should be replete with transitional forms linking one species to another. It isn't. In fact, not a SINGLE transitional fossil has been uncovered. Rather, fossils appear suddenly, fully-formed, and are similar, if not identical to organisms living today.

This, of course begs the question of how the highly complex single cell organism formed in the first place.

i'll post this again since you apparently didn't read it last time (from the PBS website):

3. Does the fossil record tell us the whole story?

Opponents of evolution point to gaps in the fossil record as proof that the theory is invalid. They say the fossil record fails to show what are called "transitional forms," generally the in-between stages as one type of creature evolved into another. The fossil record certainly has gaps, mostly because the conditions required to create fossils have been rare ever since life began on Earth. A very small percentage of animals that have lived and died ever became fossils. Thus, many pieces of the puzzle are missing; some will never be found. Nonetheless, we have many, many fossils that illustrate evolutionary transitions between fish and amphibians, between reptiles and mammals, between dinosaurs and birds, and in many lineages such as whales and horses.And new fossils continue to reveal transitional forms that some said don't exist.
 

homercles337

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2004
6,340
3
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Originally posted by: Tommunist
do i need to bold the important parts for you? i guess i'll go back and do just that....

Dont bother Tom, rip has VERY selective reading skills. His IDea has been refutted time, and time again, yet he ignores alll this evidence. This is precisely why i have said that science and religion are diametrically opposed.
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
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Originally posted by: homercles337
Originally posted by: Tommunist
do i need to bold the important parts for you? i guess i'll go back and do just that....

Dont bother Tom, rip has VERY selective reading skills. His IDea has been refutted time, and time again, yet he ignores alll this evidence. This is precisely why i have said that science and religion are diametrically opposed.

well - i can at least make it clear that he is wrong so that others don't buy into this garbage. he's welcome to argue back at anytime....
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
This thread has turned comical.

It was comical when you started posting. You refuse to debate anything, you cite sources 30 years and older, you either selectively read posted documents or don't bother reading anything at all and you make wild and exagerated lies such as ID is science when in fact it's philosophy.
 

homercles337

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2004
6,340
3
71
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: homercles337
Originally posted by: Tommunist
do i need to bold the important parts for you? i guess i'll go back and do just that....

Dont bother Tom, rip has VERY selective reading skills. His IDea has been refutted time, and time again, yet he ignores alll this evidence. This is precisely why i have said that science and religion are diametrically opposed.

well - i can at least make it clear that he is wrong so that others don't buy into this garbage. he's welcome to argue back at anytime....

Eh, yea, good point.
 

piddlefoot

Senior member
May 11, 2005
226
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omfg , can you guys take it more out of context, no please try, .....ffs, the dragon fly was an exsample, of how something can CHANGE from one type of insect into another totally different from its original self, this change over a short period is a prime exsample of evolution at work in fast farward, if you cant understand them implications without implying that the theory of evolution and dragonflies is directly conected, ,,,think more.....
for longer.........
As for the fossil record, well creation puts it at 5000ish years of age, science tells us the planet is how old ?...........MMmMMM l put my money on the scientist fossil record as being CLOSER to the TRUTH..........and you ? faith or fact ?............What about carbon dating ,do you trust carbon dating to be reasonably accurate, l do, its a pretty sound science, to measure the radioactiveness, red shift, and the list goes on n on.....Do you not trust science ?
IF NOT SELL YOUR TV, PC ,AND EVERYTHING THATS BLACKMAJIC THAT USES POWER......believer yet.......

And science and the bible can come together but the bibles theory of creation can never come together with the science of evolution, the FACTS just dont support it......FACT....


lncredable the personal swipes you take in here, who cares if he s a scientist, hes like you or anyone else , just here to vent his opinion, dont believe him , ignore him.
Its only peoples opinions you are interested in anyways and unless you are ASIMO, surely you wanna hear different views, even if you consider them wrong.....
A non abusive debate ALWAYS achieves more.........

You all have fun now im of for a game of bf2.....

fx 55 ,x800xt, 2 gig ram [3200] ,160hd.
amd3200 ,x800pro, 1.5gig ram [3200], 160hd.
amd2600, nvidea5600fx vid, 1 gig ram[2700], 80 hd
amd1800,4200 ti nvidea, 1 gig ram [2100] 40 hd.
2 dead durons and 1 dead p2........
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
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0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
This thread has turned comical. It's not surprsing that given the lack of evidence for evolution, you've resorted to personal attacks agaisnt me.

Macroevolution is a sham. If all life has evolved from a single-cell organism, the fossil record should be replete with transitional forms linking one species to another. It isn't. In fact, not a SINGLE transitional fossil has been uncovered. Rather, fossils appear suddenly, fully-formed, and are similar, if not identical to organisms living today.

This, of course begs the question of how the highly complex single cell organism formed in the first place.

Just because we haven't found every transitional fossil doesn't mean they aren't there.

Very little of the Earth has been excavated for fossils, especially the sea-floor, where many of these fossils probably lie. Secondly, fossils need literally hundreds of conditions to occur to form correctly.

A freshman knows these things, let alone a graduate in Chemistry.

The molecular evidence shows overwhelmingly that we are derived from a common ancestor.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
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Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: Riprorin
This thread has turned comical. It's not surprsing that given the lack of evidence for evolution, you've resorted to personal attacks agaisnt me.

Macroevolution is a sham. If all life has evolved from a single-cell organism, the fossil record should be replete with transitional forms linking one species to another. It isn't. In fact, not a SINGLE transitional fossil has been uncovered. Rather, fossils appear suddenly, fully-formed, and are similar, if not identical to organisms living today.

This, of course begs the question of how the highly complex single cell organism formed in the first place.

i'll post this again since you apparently didn't read it last time (from the PBS website):

3. Does the fossil record tell us the whole story?

Opponents of evolution point to gaps in the fossil record as proof that the theory is invalid. They say the fossil record fails to show what are called "transitional forms," generally the in-between stages as one type of creature evolved into another. The fossil record certainly has gaps, mostly because the conditions required to create fossils have been rare ever since life began on Earth. A very small percentage of animals that have lived and died ever became fossils. Thus, many pieces of the puzzle are missing; some will never be found. Nonetheless, we have many, many fossils that illustrate evolutionary transitions between fish and amphibians, between reptiles and mammals, between dinosaurs and birds, and in many lineages such as whales and horses.And new fossils continue to reveal transitional forms that some said don't exist.

Oh, really. Consider this:

Punctuated equilibrium, or punctuated equilibria, is a theory of evolution which states that changes such as speciation can occur relatively quickly, with long periods of little change?equilibria?in between. This theory is one of the proposed explanations of the evolutionary patterns of species as observed in the fossil record, particularly the relatively sudden appearance of new species in a geologically short time period, and the perhaps typical lack of substantial change of species during their existence.

The Hopeful Monster theory was proposed by Richard B. Goldschmidt to explain the gaps in the fossil record. He proposed that the evolutionary mechanism that explains the fossil record might be embryological monsters, such as the occasional birth of a two-legged sheep or a two-headed turtle. This would explain the apparent saltations or "leaps" in the fossil record.

Stephen J. Gould made reference to the Hopeful Monster theory in proposing his alternative theory of punctuated equilibrium. In an article in Natural History, Gould noted: "the extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favorite account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." Natural History, May 1977 p.14. He penned another article for the June/July, 1977 issue of Natural History, titled The Return of Hopeful Monsters.

Punctuated equilibrium

Hopeful Monster

The lack of transitional forms linking one species to another led Gould and Eldridge to propose the theory of punctuated equilibrium based on Goldschmidt's Hopeful Monster theory.

 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
The lack of transitional forms linking one species to another led Gould and Eldridge to propose the theory of punctuated equilibrium based on Goldschmidt's Hopeful Monster theory.

You know, your idiocy wouldn't be so bad if you actually bothered to read a single thing posted. Instead you parrot the same things, OVER and OVER and OVER. I posted this exact thing one page ago, that would be like 2 days ago Rip. You didn't bother to read it, obviously. Here is Gould's statements, from 1981 mind you, on creationsts claim that he based punctuated equilibria on "hopefull monster".

We [Gould and Niles Eldredge] proposed the theory of punctuated equilibrium largely to provide a different explanation for pervasive trends in the fossil record. Trends, we argued, cannot be attributed to gradual transformation within lineages, but must arise from the differential success of certain kind of species. A trend, we argued, is more like climbing a flight of stairs (punctuations and stasis) than rolling up an inclined plane.

Since we proposed punctuated equilibria to explain trends, it is infuriating to be quoted again and again by creationists?whether though design or stupidity, I do not know?as admitting that the fossil record includes no transitional forms. Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups. Yet a pamphlet entitled ?Harvard Scientists Agree Evolution is a Hoax? states: ?The facts of punctuated equilibrium which Gould and Eldredge?are forcing Darwinists to swallow fit the picture that Bryan insisted on, and which God revealed to us in the Bible.?

Continuing the distortion, several creationists have equated the theory of punctuated equilibrium with a caricature of the beliefs of Richard Goldschmidt, a great early geneticist. Goldschmidt argued, in a famous book published in 1949, that new groups can arise all at once through major mutations. He referred to these suddenly transformed creatures as ?hopeful monsters.? (I am attracted to some aspects of the non-caricatured version, but Goldschmidt?s theory still has nothing to do with punctuated equilibrium?) Creationist Luther Sunderland talks of the ?punctuated equilibrium hopeful monster theory? and tells his hopeful readers that ?it amounts to tacit admission that anti-evolutionists are correct in asserting there is no fossil evidence supporting the theory that all life is connected to a common ancestor.? Duane Gish writes, ?According to Goldschmidt, and now apparently according to Gould, a reptile laid an egg from which the first bird, feathers and all, was produced.? Any evolutionist who believed such nonsense would rightly be laughed off the intellectual stage; yet the only theory that could ever envision such a scenario for the origin of birds is creationism?with God acting in the egg.
-Dr. Gould, May 1981 issue of Discover.

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Natural History, May 1977

Yet again, you would think there hadn't been any evolutionary science developed since 1980 . :roll:
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: Riprorin
The lack of transitional forms linking one species to another led Gould and Eldridge to propose the theory of punctuated equilibrium based on Goldschmidt's Hopeful Monster theory.

You know, your idiocy wouldn't be so bad if you actually bothered to read a single thing posted. Instead you parrot the same things, OVER and OVER and OVER. I posted this exact thing one page ago, that would be like 2 days ago Rip. You didn't bother to read it, obviously. Here is Gould's statements, from 1981 mind you, on creationsts claim that he based punctuated equilibria on "hopefull monster".

We [Gould and Niles Eldredge] proposed the theory of punctuated equilibrium largely to provide a different explanation for pervasive trends in the fossil record. Trends, we argued, cannot be attributed to gradual transformation within lineages, but must arise from the differential success of certain kind of species. A trend, we argued, is more like climbing a flight of stairs (punctuations and stasis) than rolling up an inclined plane.

Since we proposed punctuated equilibria to explain trends, it is infuriating to be quoted again and again by creationists?whether though design or stupidity, I do not know?as admitting that the fossil record includes no transitional forms. Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups. Yet a pamphlet entitled ?Harvard Scientists Agree Evolution is a Hoax? states: ?The facts of punctuated equilibrium which Gould and Eldredge?are forcing Darwinists to swallow fit the picture that Bryan insisted on, and which God revealed to us in the Bible.?

Continuing the distortion, several creationists have equated the theory of punctuated equilibrium with a caricature of the beliefs of Richard Goldschmidt, a great early geneticist. Goldschmidt argued, in a famous book published in 1949, that new groups can arise all at once through major mutations. He referred to these suddenly transformed creatures as ?hopeful monsters.? (I am attracted to some aspects of the non-caricatured version, but Goldschmidt?s theory still has nothing to do with punctuated equilibrium?) Creationist Luther Sunderland talks of the ?punctuated equilibrium hopeful monster theory? and tells his hopeful readers that ?it amounts to tacit admission that anti-evolutionists are correct in asserting there is no fossil evidence supporting the theory that all life is connected to a common ancestor.? Duane Gish writes, ?According to Goldschmidt, and now apparently according to Gould, a reptile laid an egg from which the first bird, feathers and all, was produced.? Any evolutionist who believed such nonsense would rightly be laughed off the intellectual stage; yet the only theory that could ever envision such a scenario for the origin of birds is creationism?with God acting in the egg.
-Dr. Gould, May 1981 issue of Discover.

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Natural History, May 1977

Yet again, you would think there hadn't been any evolutionary science developed since 1980 . :roll:

Stephen J. Gould made reference to the Hopeful Monster theory in proposing his alternative theory of punctuated equilibrium. In an article in Natural History, Gould noted: "the extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favorite account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." Natural History, May 1977 p.14. He penned another article for the June/July, 1977 issue of Natural History, titled The Return of Hopeful Monsters.

Wikipedia
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: rahvin
Yet again, you would think there hadn't been any evolutionary science developed since 1980 . :roll:
You'd have better luck trying to debate this with any of the following:

1) A blade of grass
2) Roadkill
3) Your carpet
4) Toejam
 

shoegazer

Senior member
May 22, 2005
313
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0
Originally posted by: shoegazer
senior scientist? but, you aren't a scientist!

if you were you would give us a falsifiable hypothesis to explain life on this planet. but, you can't even do that. i've given you an example of a way to falsify evolution.

(advanced organism millions of years before it should appear in the fossil record. ie Homo sapiens over a million years ago)

creationism and intelligent design are not falsifiable. any evidence for anything can be made to fit them.


well? do you have a falsifiable explanation for life yet?
 

abj13

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2005
1,071
902
136
Originally posted by: Riprorin

Stephen J. Gould made reference to the Hopeful Monster theory in proposing his alternative theory of punctuated equilibrium. In an article in Natural History, Gould noted: "the extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favorite account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." Natural History, May 1977 p.14. He penned another article for the June/July, 1977 issue of Natural History, titled The Return of Hopeful Monsters.

Wikipedia

It's quite comical that person with your "scientific" success could be duped by failing to actually read the literature.

"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils ?.We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study." - Stephen J. Gould - "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, vol. 86 (May 1987), p. 14.

Representative quote miner: Answers in Genesis: Hopeful monsters revisited, The Revolution Against Evolution: Transition Fossils?, and The UnOfficial Confessing Movement: eVOLUTION?"nO dEBATE aLLOWED" (sic)

A more correct and complete citation is:

Gould, S. J. 1977. "Evolution's Erratic Pace" in Natural History 86(5):12-16.

This is the same article as:

Gould, S. J. 1980. "The Episodic Nature of Evolutionary Change" in The Panda's Thumb, pp. 179-185. New York: W. W. Norton & Company.

It shouldn't surprise those familiar with Gould's books that an article for the magazine Natural History would show up in one of his essay collections, but it is surprising that it has a different title and that there are some differences in the body of the article. And so, it's now obvious why the last sentence in the above is also in Quote #14 of the original Quote Mine Project. They both refer to the same article, and in fact appear in the same pages in "The Panda's Thumb" (pp. 181-182). John Wilkins certainly did more than an adequate job of clarifying Gould's beliefs in that entry, but a slightly different claim is being made here, so I'll do what I can.

A more complete quote would be as follows (words in square brackets ([]) appear in the "Panda's Thumb" essay, and not in the original):

The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils. Yet Darwin was so wedded to gradualism that he wagered his entire theory on a denial of this literal record:

The geological record is extremely imperfect and this fact will to a large extent explain why we do not find interminable varieties, connecting together all the extinct and existing forms of life by the finest graduated steps. He who rejects these views on the nature of the geological record, will rightly reject my whole theory.

Darwin's argument still persists as the favored escape of most paleontologists from the embarrassment of a record that seems to show so little of evolution [directly]. In exposing its cultural and methodological roots, I wish in no way to impugn the potential validity of gradualism (for all general views have similar roots). I only wish to point out that it is never "seen" in the rocks.

Paleontologists have paid an exorbitant price for Darwin's argument. We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study.

For several years, Niles Eldredge of the American Museum of Natural History and I have been advocating a resolution to this uncomfortable paradox. We believe that Huxley was right in his warning [1]. The modern theory of evolution does not require gradual change. In fact, the operation of Darwinian processes should yield exactly what we see in the fossil record. [It is gradualism we should reject, not Darwinism.]


[1] Referring to Huxley's warning to Darwin, literally on the eve of the publication of Origin of Species, that "[y]ou have loaded yourself with an unnecessary difficulty in adopting Natura non facit saltum [nature does not make leaps] so unreservedly." - Ed.

So it would seem that Gould has no problems with the fossil record. But did he believe that transitional forms are lacking? Note that in the quote originally presented, the claim is made that they are rare, not absent. Also, as anyone who is familiar with Gould's writings will know, the text quoted reflects his recognition that, while there is a scarcity of transitional fossils between species, there is no such lack of transitional fossils between major groups.

- Jon (Augray) Barber

Yet once again, this is Gould discussing "Punctuated Equilibria." It is best, perhaps, simply to allow Gould to defend himself, as he did in his article "Evolution as Fact and Theory", originally published in 1981:

[T]ransitions are often found in the fossil record. Preserved transitions are not common -- and should not be, according to our understanding of evolution (see next section) but they are not entirely wanting, as creationists often claim. [He then discusses two examples: therapsid intermediaries between reptiles and mammals, and the half-dozen human species - found as of 1981 - that appear in an unbroken temporal sequence of progressively more modern features.]

Faced with these facts of evolution and the philosophical bankruptcy of their own position, creationists rely upon distortion and innuendo to buttress their rhetorical claim. If I sound sharp or bitter, indeed I am -- for I have become a major target of these practices.

I count myself among the evolutionists who argue for a jerky, or episodic, rather than a smoothly gradual, pace of change. In 1972 my colleague Niles Eldredge and I developed the theory of punctuated equilibrium. We argued that two outstanding facts of the fossil record -- geologically "sudden" origin of new species and failure to change thereafter (stasis) -- reflect the predictions of evolutionary theory, not the imperfections of the fossil record. In most theories, small isolated populations are the source of new species, and the process of speciation takes thousands or tens of thousands of years. This amount of time, so long when measured against our lives, is a geological microsecond . . .

Since we proposed punctuated equilibria to explain trends, it is infuriating to be quoted again and again by creationists -- whether through design or stupidity, I do not know -- as admitting that the fossil record includes no transitional forms. Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups.

- Gould, Stephen Jay 1983. "Evolution as Fact and Theory" in Hens Teeth and Horse's Toes: Further Reflections in Natural History. New York: W. W. Norton & Co., p. 258-260.

Gould, in this article and many more over the next twenty years, consistently and extensively explained his position and the evidence for evolution, including transitional forms found in the fossil record. The constant abuse of the body of Gould's life's work in the face of this is not merely dishonest, it is despicable.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/quotes/mine/part3.html

Hey, if you are such a great reader of Gould and intermediate fossils, why don't you quote this passage?


[T]ransitions are often found in the fossil record. Preserved transitions are not common -- and should not be, according to our understanding of evolution (see next section) but they are not entirely wanting, as creationists often claim. [He then discusses two examples: therapsid intermediaries between reptiles and mammals, and the half-dozen human species - found as of 1981 - that appear in an unbroken temporal sequence of progressively more modern features.]

Faced with these facts of evolution and the philosophical bankruptcy of their own position, creationists rely upon distortion and innuendo to buttress their rhetorical claim. If I sound sharp or bitter, indeed I am -- for I have become a major target of these practices.

I count myself among the evolutionists who argue for a jerky, or episodic, rather than a smoothly gradual, pace of change. In 1972 my colleague Niles Eldredge and I developed the theory of punctuated equilibrium. We argued that two outstanding facts of the fossil record -- geologically "sudden" origin of new species and failure to change thereafter (stasis) -- reflect the predictions of evolutionary theory, not the imperfections of the fossil record. In most theories, small isolated populations are the source of new species, and the process of speciation takes thousands or tens of thousands of years. This amount of time, so long when measured against our lives, is a geological microsecond . . .

Since we proposed punctuated equilibria to explain trends, it is infuriating to be quoted again and again by creationists -- whether through design or stupidity, I do not know -- as admitting that the fossil record includes no transitional forms. Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups.

- Gould, Stephen Jay 1983. "Evolution as Fact and Theory" in Hens Teeth and Horse's Toes: Further Reflections in Natural History. New York: W. W. Norton & Co., p. 258-260.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
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0
Originally posted by: shoegazer
Originally posted by: shoegazer
senior scientist? but, you aren't a scientist!

if you were you would give us a falsifiable hypothesis to explain life on this planet. but, you can't even do that. i've given you an example of a way to falsify evolution.

(advanced organism millions of years before it should appear in the fossil record. ie Homo sapiens over a million years ago)

creationism and intelligent design are not falsifiable. any evidence for anything can be made to fit them.

well? do you have a falsifiable explanation for life yet?

The idea of falsifiabilty comes from Popper and Gellner. Popper proclaimed that Darwinism isn't falsifiable.

I'm not really sure where you are going with this. Do you have a point?
 

shoegazer

Senior member
May 22, 2005
313
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin

The idea of falsifiabilty comes from Popper and Gellner. Popper proclaimed that Darwinism isn't falsifiable.

I'm not really sure where you are going with this. Do you have a pont?

my point is that you claim to be a scientist, but your alternate ideas for the diversity of life on this planet are not scientific because they are not falsifiable. ID and creationism don't make predictions.

evolution does allow for predictions on the fossil record. single celled organisms should appear in the record before multicelled organisms. prokartotes before eukaryotes. homo sapiens after other primates.
 

Gigantopithecus

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2004
7,664
0
71
Originally posted by: Riprorin
This thread has turned comical. It's not surprsing that given the lack of evidence for evolution, you've resorted to personal attacks agaisnt me.

Macroevolution is a sham. If all life has evolved from a single-cell organism, the fossil record should be replete with transitional forms linking one species to another. It isn't. In fact, not a SINGLE transitional fossil has been uncovered. Rather, fossils appear suddenly, fully-formed, and are similar, if not identical to organisms living today.

This, of course begs the question of how the highly complex single cell organism formed in the first place.

Maybe people are mocking your intelligence because you're incredibly dishonest in your debate strategy?

You state macroevolution is a sham, but you failed to address my point that there is no biologically sound species definition (aside from some crackpot creationist idea) - macroevolution is microevolution - no one, not even your camp has ever come up with a plausible explanation or evidence that the same factors responsible for microevolution can not be responsible for macroevolution - because they are one in the same, the difference is subjective. Show me that, and I will cede that I am wrong.

And please, stating that the fossil record shows organisms appearing suddenly, fully-formed is like looking at vidcaps from a movie taken at one second intervals and saying there's no movie.

I don't care what your degree is in, I don't care what you do for a living, even if you're a practicing scientist. Your criticisms of evolution are nothing more than mouthings of the same tired intellectual excrement that pseudo- and anti-scientists have been levying for more than 100 years because for some reason, evolutionary theory makes you insecure in your religious beliefs.

Let me ask you a question: if evolution is a sham, and creationism is the best explanation for the nature of life, why are creationists a small minority in the general population of the US, a nearly non-existent minority of scientists in the US, and virtually absent from the rest of the modernized world?
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Originally posted by: Riprorin
This thread has turned comical. It's not surprsing that given the lack of evidence for evolution, you've resorted to personal attacks agaisnt me.

Macroevolution is a sham. If all life has evolved from a single-cell organism, the fossil record should be replete with transitional forms linking one species to another. It isn't. In fact, not a SINGLE transitional fossil has been uncovered. Rather, fossils appear suddenly, fully-formed, and are similar, if not identical to organisms living today.

This, of course begs the question of how the highly complex single cell organism formed in the first place.

Maybe people are mocking your intelligence because you're incredibly dishonest in your debate strategy?

You state macroevolution is a sham, but you failed to address my point that there is no biologically sound species definition (aside from some crackpot creationist idea) - macroevolution is microevolution - no one, not even your camp has ever come up with a plausible explanation or evidence that the same factors responsible for microevolution can not be responsible for macroevolution - because they are one in the same, the difference is subjective. Show me that, and I will cede that I am wrong.

And please, stating that the fossil record shows organisms appearing suddenly, fully-formed is like looking at vidcaps from a movie taken at one second intervals and saying there's no movie.

I don't care what your degree is in, I don't care what you do for a living, even if you're a practicing scientist. Your criticisms of evolution are nothing more than mouthings of the same tired intellectual excrement that pseudo- and anti-scientists have been levying for more than 100 years because for some reason, evolutionary theory makes you insecure in your religious beliefs.

Let me ask you a question: if evolution is a sham, and creationism is the best explanation for the nature of life, why are creationists a small minority in the general population of the US, a nearly non-existent minority of scientists in the US, and virtually absent from the rest of the modernized world?

Are you arguing that natural selection gave rise to new species?

I didn't know that there were any evolutionists left that still held that view.

 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
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Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Originally posted by: Riprorin
This thread has turned comical. It's not surprsing that given the lack of evidence for evolution, you've resorted to personal attacks agaisnt me.

Macroevolution is a sham. If all life has evolved from a single-cell organism, the fossil record should be replete with transitional forms linking one species to another. It isn't. In fact, not a SINGLE transitional fossil has been uncovered. Rather, fossils appear suddenly, fully-formed, and are similar, if not identical to organisms living today.

This, of course begs the question of how the highly complex single cell organism formed in the first place.

Let me ask you a question: if evolution is a sham, and creationism is the best explanation for the nature of life, why are creationists a small minority in the general population of the US, a nearly non-existent minority of scientists in the US, and virtually absent from the rest of the modernized world?

Wht are those that are the most visible in their public promotion and defence of evolution virtually all avowed atheists?

Ernst Mayr, zoologist.

J.B.S. Haldane, geneticist, who was also a Stalinist.

Carl Sagan, a promoter of the Search for Extra-terrestrial Intelligence (SETI), and author of the anti-Christian book and movie Contact.

Isaac Asimov, science fiction writer, signatory to the Humanist Manifesto II, and past president of the American Humanist Association.

Sir Julian Huxley, first Director-General of UNESCO and signatory to the Humanist Manifesto II.

Jacques Monod, Nobel Prize-winning biologist, and signatory to the Humanist Manifesto II.1

The more recent crop of evolutionary proselytisers include:

Stephen Jay Gould, a Marxist, author of many popular works promoting the evolutionary view.

Richard Dawkins, author of The Blind Watchmaker and other anti-creationist books, now employed by Oxford University (U.K.) to promote the ?public understanding of science? (i.e. evolutionary naturalism).

Daniel Dennett, author of Darwin?s Dangerous Idea who argues gleefully that evolution eats away all foundations of religion and morality.

Eugenie Scott, head of the so-called National Center for Science Education which grew out of efforts by secular humanists to oppose creationists.

Ian Plimer, anti-creationist Australian professor of geology, and Australian Humanist of the Year in 1995.



 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
Are you arguing that natural selection gave rise to new species?

I didn't know that there were any evolutionists left that still held that view.

Is your reading comprehension that bad or are you just not reading? Seriously, you just accused him of something that he didn't even mention, didn't even hint at. It appears that when you read something you see whatever you want and do not actually comprehend or read anything.
 

shoegazer

Senior member
May 22, 2005
313
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Originally posted by: Riprorin

Wht are those that are the most visible in their public promotion and defence of evolution virtually all avowed atheists?

scientists are more often atheists than the general public. science is all about doubt, not faith. you doubt everything you see and ask yourself "what would happen if...". then you test it.

you can't test god.
 

abj13

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2005
1,071
902
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Originally posted by: Riprorin

Wht are those that are the most visible in their public promotion and defence of evolution virtually all avowed atheists?

Why are those that are the most visible in their public misinformation and distortion of evolution virtually all avowed Chrisitans?

A even better question would be:

Why are there an estimated 57,000+ scientists/PhD's who accepted the statement that:

Evolution is a vital, well-supported, unifying principle of the biological sciences, and the scientific evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of the idea that all living things share a common ancestry. Although there are legitimate debates about the patterns and processes of evolution, there is no serious scientific doubt that evolution occurred or that natural selection is a major mechanism in its occurrence. It is scientifically inappropriate and pedagogically irresponsible for creationist pseudoscience, including but not limited to "intelligent design," to be introduced into the science curricula of our nation's public schools.