The Theism/Atheism Mega-thread Hullabaloo Extravaganza

[alzan]

The bold is not true at all. You may be referring to people that do not know what they are talking about misquoting and misinterpreting events.

Humans were born with sin because our blood line was tainted.

To know what is literal and figurative is why these books are researched by scholars and a consensus is agreed upon.

Adam and Eve definitely existed...whether they were named that literally is open for debate. There was definitely a set of parents that gave birth to the original founding families many of which were mentioned in historical accounting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descendants_of_Adam_and_Eve

This does not mean that literally only two people gave birth to every single person, although that is a possibility; it just means that was the direct bloodline accounted for in th e bible.



Not true at all. Maybe their pastor/priest did so or their parents, etc. But this does not happen regularly at all.

From the Wiki page you linked: ʼĀdam) and Eve (Hebrew: חַוָּה‎, Ḥawwā, "living one"; Arabic: حواء‎, Ḥawwā&#700 were, according to the Book of Genesis of the Bible, the first man and woman created by God"

You need to at least prove indisputably that first, G-d exists, and second that the Genesis account of Creation is literal and not figurative or allegorical.

 

[alzan]

I beg to differ.

The most obvious example is that of gay marriage. For centuries, Christians taught that God condemned gay relationships, up to the Clinton administration, they still held to this.

The second gay marriage support shifted, guess what? God no longer condemns gays!

That's either a calculated move, or one hell of a coincidence. Knowing how Christianity keeps its finger on the pulse of change, I choose the former.

Same with interracial marriage. People were teaching that God condemned interracial marriage, until SCOTUS disagreed, then they stopped teaching that, but more gradually.

Unfortunately for you and some other Christians, our government separates church and state. They don't give a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys what the Bible claims G-d said about gay or interracial marriage; they care about providing all citizens with the same rights and protections.

 

[alkemyst]

From the Wiki page you linked: ʼĀdam) and Eve (Hebrew: חַוָּה‎, Ḥawwā, "living one"; Arabic: حواء‎, Ḥawwā&#700 were, according to the Book of Genesis of the Bible, the first man and woman created by God"

You need to at least prove indisputably that first, G-d exists, and second that the Genesis account of Creation is literal and not figurative or allegorical.

One doesn't need to prove God exists (BTW unless you are going to use G-d consistently it smacks you are trolling) for Adam and Eve to have existed, God doesn't have to have existed for the great flood to have happened, etc.

Most of Genesis was the best Man could handle what was discussed / told to them. No different than if an alien (if existed) landed and handed the blueprints to interstellar travel to someone with just a typical high school diploma here. They'd probably attempt to kill the alien and then deny it ever happened.

 

[alkemyst]

Unfortunately for you and some other Christians, our government separates church and state. They don't give a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys what the Bible claims G-d said about gay or interracial marriage; they care about providing all citizens with the same rights and protections.

You have to be trolling.

 

[sandorski]

Well a lot of young people have always became atheist / agnostic as another method of rebelling against society, their parents, etc.

Many later come back to the religions they were born with or seek one out as their mortality approaches.

Some do continue being a claimed Atheist/Agnostic to the very end, but some doctors/family members will witness them asking for Gods help near the end at times.

The young like to claim many things they will never do, never become; but time proves them wrong and they learn to assimilate.

More or less agree. However, that doesn't really address whether those Religious ideas are True or not.

 

[Retro Rob]

Unfortunately for you and some other Christians, our government separates church and state.

lol, I am GLAD there is that separation. What are you talking about?

They don't give a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys what the Bible claims G-d said about gay or interracial marriage;

Who said they cared?

they care about providing all citizens with the same rights and protections.

That's the point. When I said SCOTUS "disagreed", I mean that they disagreed with banning interracial marriage.

But you're so gun-ho to disagree, your reading comprehension skills obviously suffer as a result.

 

[Retro Rob]

One doesn't need to prove God exists

He was obviously moved the goalposts there, as its well-known we cannot prove God's existence no more than he can disprove it.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Unfortunately for you and some other Christians, our government separates church and state. They don't give a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys what the Bible claims G-d said about gay or interracial marriage; they care about providing all citizens with the same rights and protections.

Unfortunately for you the Bible talks about rendering unto Ceasar what is Caesars and unto god what is God`s!

There are many Bible believing Christians who believe that everyone should be treated equal...included in that is gay marriage. We also believe in the separation of church and state! Even though there is a huge misunderstanding of what that actually means....

But what I find comical and sad is how you keep bringing up stuff that has nothing to do with anything....other than to confuse the subject matter.....*yawn*

 

[alzan]

lol, I am GLAD there is that separation. What are you talking about?

Who said they cared?

That's the point. When I said SCOTUS "disagreed", I mean that they disagreed with banning interracial marriage.

But you're so gun-ho to disagree, your reading comprehension skills obviously suffer as a result.

I know you hate going back to read what you posted but:

I beg to differ.

The most obvious example is that of gay marriage. For centuries, Christians taught that God condemned gay relationships, up to the Clinton administration, they still held to this.

The second gay marriage support shifted, guess what? God no longer condemns gays!

That's either a calculated move, or one hell of a coincidence. Knowing how Christianity keeps its finger on the pulse of change, I choose the former.

Same with interracial marriage. People were teaching that God condemned interracial marriage, until SCOTUS disagreed, then they stopped teaching that, but more gradually.

What you seem to be saying is that Christianity, at least in the US, changes what it teaches based upon the whim of it's leaders. It may or may not do that but you're applying a view based on your interpretation of the Bible.

My response to that was simply that the government and it's branches aren't concerned with your, mine or anyone else's interpretation of the Bible.

It could simply be that in some Christian sects the church's leaders saw the errors of their previous ways and instituted the change.

 

[alzan]

One doesn't need to prove God exists (BTW unless you are going to use G-d consistently it smacks you are trolling) for Adam and Eve to have existed, God doesn't have to have existed for the great flood to have happened, etc.

Most of Genesis was the best Man could handle what was discussed / told to them. No different than if an alien (if existed) landed and handed the blueprints to interstellar travel to someone with just a typical high school diploma here. They'd probably attempt to kill the alien and then deny it ever happened.

I was quoting the Wiki page; it's not proper to change the quote from their page.

 

[alzan]

Unfortunately for you the Bible talks about rendering unto Ceasar what is Caesars and unto god what is God`s!

There are many Bible believing Christians who believe that everyone should be treated equal...included in that is gay marriage. We also believe in the separation of church and state! Even though there is a huge misunderstanding of what that actually means....

But what I find comical and sad is how you keep bringing up stuff that has nothing to do with anything....other than to confuse the subject matter.....*yawn*

Pray tell, what does it mean?

That's because you don't pay attention.

*yawn*

 

[Retro Rob]

It could simply be that in some Christian sects the church's leaders saw the errors of their previous ways and instituted the change.

Not when it came to gay marriage, no...I don't believe that.

We both know religion in general is becoming more and more unpopular, and young people are becoming more "unaffiliated".

Reinterpreting the Biblical view of gay marriage is a direct result of that.

 

[alkemyst]

The organized religions vs God thing are two different points.

Whether God exists or you believe in them has nothing to do if you even the DOGMA that an organized religion uses.

It's like the Democratic vs Republican bullshit...people get into a mob frenzy/team mentality and will fight blindly.

 

[alkemyst]

More or less agree. However, that doesn't really address whether those Religious ideas are True or not.

I definitely agree.

However; belief in a God(s) vs not is the basis of this discussion. Any organized religion/politics/etc is going to have human influence that goes against it's principles to suit the needs of those humans.

That's why it's critical one does their own self-study and include non-secular instruction as well as those that are secular from multiple sources.

In reality, most just don't even a shit and it's just a 'jersey' they can wear on game day.

 

[alzan]

Not when it came to gay marriage, no...I don't believe that.

We both know religion in general is becoming more and more unpopular, and young people are becoming more "unaffiliated".

Reinterpreting the Biblical view of gay marriage is a direct result of that.

AFAIK the Bible does not contain a direct verse speaking against same-sex marriage. It does speak to homosexuality but not to SSM.

 

[soulcougher73]

To maybe liven it up a bit. Christian Bale as Moses in Exodus: Gods and Kings trailer..looks pretty cool

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/fox/exodusgodsandkings/

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

It does speak to homosexuality...

That really depends on one's interpretation. There are reasonable interpretations (IMO) that call into question this widely held belief.

 

[alkemyst]

To maybe liven it up a bit. Christian Bale as Moses in Exodus: Gods and Kings trailer..looks pretty cool

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/fox/exodusgodsandkings/

This opens up a ton of stuff though, the players in Exodus are debated a lot.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Pray tell, what does it mean?

That's because you don't pay attention.

*yawn*

Just as I thought.....nothing to say -- *yawn*

 

[JD50]

Huh? I wasn't an ex-Norse mythologist, ever. So I never left it not knowing about it.

Being uninformed simply means you left something you never fully understood to begin with.

If a question about God killing the Amalakites had you baffled, which was very basic to me, then it makes one wonder what else baffled you.

As is the case with most christians, I was born into a christian family, I didn't have a choice in the first place.

I don't know how I would have answered that question because I wasn't indoctrinated to the point that I would try and justify the murder of innocent children (at least I hope I wasn't). What's your excuse?

You said yourself that you spent a lot of time researching that issue, the best that you could come up with was "God plays by different rules."

 

[alkemyst]

As is the case with most christians, I was born into a christian family, I didn't have a choice in the first place.

I don't know how I would have answered that question because I wasn't indoctrinated to the point that I would try and justify the murder of innocent children (at least I hope I wasn't). What's your excuse?

You said yourself that you spent a lot of time researching that issue, the best that you could come up with was "God plays by different rules."

You are focused on DOGMA, bro.

Learn the story. Not what someone else told you.

People kill kids all the time for profit, doesn't mean they are right.

 

[Retro Rob]

As is the case with most christians, I was born into a christian family, I didn't have a choice in the first place.

There are many things in life that children don't have a choice in, we call that proper parenting.

It's the duty of the parents to do what they deem best -- even if you later on disagree with it as a adult.

I don't know how I would have answered that question because I wasn't indoctrinated to the point that I would try and justify the murder of innocent children (at least I hope I wasn't). What's your excuse?

I think this makes it clear that your Church, like a bunch of Christian religions, simply swept the Hebrew Bible under the rug. Likey, you probably never knew the Amalakites destruction was mentioned in the Bible, so you were literally in no position to even comment on it.

So it's not that you weren't "indoctrinated" -- you were probably completely ignorant of it.

You said yourself that you spent a lot of time researching that issue, the best that you could come up with was "God plays by different rules."

Fortunately for me, these uncomfortable details were exposed to me very early on, so I don't shy away from them.

The further research was to simply uncover details (like them ambushing Israel, and raising generations of children to hate God) and why I support the actions of God seeing that he probably saw things in those people that we are completely ignorant of.

I just trust that God always makes the right decision, even if it's an unpopular one.

 

[witeken]

There are many things in life that children don't have a choice in, we call that proper parenting.

It's the duty of the parents to do what they deem best -- even if you later on disagree with it as a adult.

No, this is called indoctrination. You can't justify indoctrination.

 

[Retro Rob]

No, this is called indoctrination. You can't justify indoctrination.

What's called "indoctrination"?

Read my post carefully...I said proper parenting is limiting your children's choices.

On the religious front, I support parents teaching their kids whatever they deem necessary, even if that includes telling them there is no God.

 

[JD50]

There are many things in life that children don't have a choice in, we call that proper parenting.

It's the duty of the parents to do what they deem best -- even if you later on disagree with it as a adult.



I think this makes it clear that your Church, like a bunch of Christian religions, simply swept the Hebrew Bible under the rug. Likey, you probably never knew the Amalakites destruction was mentioned in the Bible, so you were literally in no position to even comment on it.

So it's not that you weren't "indoctrinated" -- you were probably completely ignorant of it.



Fortunately for me, these uncomfortable details were exposed to me very early on, so I don't shy away from them.

The further research was to simply uncover details (like them ambushing Israel, and raising generations of children to hate God) and why I support the actions of God seeing that he probably saw things in those people that we are completely ignorant of.

I just trust that God always makes the right decision, even if it's an unpopular one.

The minute details are only relevant if you're trying to justify the event. I don't need to know the details to know that killing innocent children is wrong, and I can certainly comment on it. Your belief in god has convinced you that under certain circumstances killing innocent children is perfectly fine, which is quite scary.