The Theism/Atheism Mega-thread Hullabaloo Extravaganza

[alzan]

It wasn't just a revolt, the details (Romans being encamped around Jerusalem, and the fact the temple would be destroyed).

Just not interested in talking about prophecy. He wanted a reason, I just simply gave him one.

Take that as being "cornered" all you want. Just not interested.

Could be prophecy, could be that Jesus could feel the unrest rising and made an educated guess of what the Romans would do in response to the unrest. Jesus, the historical person, was a rabble rouser and understood better than most the politics of the region.

 

[soulcougher73]

Could be prophecy, could be that Jesus could feel the unrest rising and made an educated guess of what the Romans would do in response to the unrest. Jesus, the historical person, was a rabble rouser and understood better than most the politics of the region.

Could also be that the bible was written well after the events...could squeeze just about anything into it and make it prophecy...

 

[Retro Rob]

Could also be that the bible was written well after the events...could squeeze just about anything into it and make it prophecy...

LOL -- just like I said.

 

[SlowSpyder]

It's like shooting fish in a barrel

I'd love to have some knowledge or perspective dumped on me that makes me question why I don't believe or at least makes me think of things in a different way somehow. But when you get down to the bottom of it, all they really have is 'but god' and an emotional attachment to christianity that they don't want disturbed.

 

[SlowSpyder]

LOL -- just like I said.

Something just like you said would happen did indeed happen? Look at you and your prophecy! Nice job, it must of be because you are the son of god.


For the sake of argument, let's assume that it was indeed written before it happened. Now what about the failed prophecies in the bible as well? What about other religions' prophecies that also came to fruition?

 

[soulcougher73]

I'd love to have some knowledge or perspective dumped on me that makes me question why I don't believe or at least makes me think of things in a different way somehow. But when you get down to the bottom of it, all they really have is 'but god' and an emotional attachment to christianity that they don't want disturbed.

Pretty much. Can get more intellectual conversation out of a 8 year old probably. Propoganda is a wicked thing.

 

[Retro Rob]

Something just like you said would happen did indeed happen? Look at you and your prophecy! Nice job, it must of be because you are the son of god.

Actually, atheism has become so predictable in their Biblical criticism that I can literally set my watch by them.

 

[jackstar7]

The problem is one of the power dynamic. People defending their faith are inherently in a position of weakness.

That start makes conversations of much value unlikely.

 

[jackstar7]

Actually, atheism has become so predictable in their Biblical criticism that I can literally set my watch by them.

Quick! What time is it?!

Remind me: what did the children among the Amalekites do to deserve their deaths at the command of God?

I say "remind me", but you've never given an answer beyond the rules god made for us don't apply to him. Which doesn't actually answer what those kids did...

 

[soulcougher73]

Id like to see an experiment where we took somone new born and isolted them from religion completely, but educated them and all that jazz. When they turn 18 hand them the bible and say "read this and let me know what you think". And then when they are done tell them billions of people worship the god in this book and sorta (pick and choose) to live there lives by it, and see what they have to say.

Would be a hoot.

 

[alzan]

Actually, atheism has become so predictable in their Biblical criticism that I can literally set my watch by them.

Actually, theism has become so predictable in their atheist criticism that I can literally set my watch by them.

< see what I did there? >

 

[soulcougher73]

Actually, atheism has become so predictable in their Biblical criticism that I can literally set my watch by them.

Ditto. Except ours is sound in logic and reasoning while yours is regurgitated crap from an old book that makes no logical sense and cant hold up to scrutiny.

 

[SlowSpyder]

The problem is one of the power dynamic. People defending their faith are inherently in a position of weakness.

That start makes conversations of much value unlikely.

But should it if the deity the faith is built around is real?


Let's say that I start a faith called Spyderism and my holy book says that if you pray to me, you can do anything. And indeed people were able to pray and all kinds of things happened through that praying that wouldn't normally. Amputees prayed to have limbs again and miraculously they did grow limbs. Amputee members of other faiths could not have such miracles happen. If all these miraculous things could happen by praying to the deity of a particular faith, if Spyderists could demonstrate that they are receiving blessings that other faiths and non-believers couldn't, would the faithful Spyderists be at a position of weakness in these conversations?

On the other hand if your deity isn't there and bad things happen to the faithful of that deity at the same rate as others, supposed miracles are wishy washy at best, unanswered prayers, etc. Then I could see how these discussions are difficult for the faithful of that religion.

 

[Retro Rob]

Quick! What time is it?!

Remind me: what did the children among the Amalekites do to deserve their deaths at the command of God?

I say "remind me", but you've never given an answer beyond the rules god made for us don't apply to him. Which doesn't actually answer what those kids did...

Think of the children (and similar phrases citing the interests of children including what about the children) can be used to justify why something should, or should not, be done. When used as a plea for pity, this appeal to emotion can constitute a potential logical fallacy

'Think of the children!' is a tried-and-true debate-stopper, but more often than not one that succeeds because of its ability to inhibit rational thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_The_Children_(politics)

This is why I simply ignore you here.

 

[soulcougher73]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_The_Children_(politics)

This is why I simply ignore you here.

Deflect Will Robinson, Deflect..topic too hard..Deflect.

Im sure i can dig up a grade school forum for you to discuss things with. Might be more your speed.

 

[Retro Rob]

Deflect Will Robinson, Deflect..topic too hard..Deflect.

Im sure i can dig up a grade school forum for you to discuss things with. Might be more your speed.

How have I defected? I explained why I don't respond to his "evil God MURDERS innocent children" illogical appeals.

As the link showed, "what about the children" is specifically designed to shut down debates because it hits humans dead-smack at their emotions.

Like I said, you all are very predictable.

 

[JD50]

How have I defected? I explained why I don't respond to his "evil God MURDERS innocent children" illogical appeals.

As the link showed, "what about the children" is specifically designed to shut down debates because it hits humans dead-smack at their emotions.

Like I said, you all are very predictable.

Of course we're predictable when you refuse to directly answer questions. This is text book deflection.

 

[Retro Rob]

Of course we're predictable when you refuse to directly answer questions. This is text book deflection.

Good 'ol JD-come-lately. Was counting down the time when you'd peek your little head in here.

 

[JD50]

Good 'ol JD-come-lately. Was counting down the time when you'd peek your little head in here.

I don't even know what this means. You are, once again, refusing to answer difficult questions.

 

[Retro Rob]

I don't even know what this means.

Why am I not surprised...

 

[JD50]

Why am I not surprised...

Why is it so hard to just answer the question?

 

[Retro Rob]

Why is it so hard to just answer the question?

Well, here is extensive research outlining the relationship between God and the Amalekites.

Really, really good read.

 

[alkemyst]

I'd recommend anyone that really gives a crap about this topic to read the Founder's Bible.

It's pretty interesting about how our forefathers in the US were Bible-focused even if not very religious. Some even made discoveries (like the sea's jet streams) by reading it.

I have been going to church lately (a very non-preachy, more use it to build yourself up type of practice....gochristfellowship.com and their summer program is at hellosummer.net). They are based out of Florida, but just built a church in NYC. I have a loved one dying and they had asked if I could at least make an effort to go to any church once a week, so I have been. It's been fun actually.

Things like viagra and how a husband and wife like sex/have sex/look forward to sex/etc are discussed in a tongue-in-cheek manner.

In theory I was born Catholic. I don't buy into DOGMA nor agree with many things the Catholic church did to people. Much of religion has done bad things.

Jesus was a real person, whether or not he was King of the Jews and/or the Messiah / Son of God can be debated. The Jewish powers that were in charge in Jerusalem at the time when Pilate was there lied about Jesus to flex Pilate who was already on his third strike with Caesar to have him executed. They did many things to ensure this and in reality Pilate was not for this execution, but was put between a rock and hard place. It was during Passover which even today brings tons of people to Jerusalem. At the time it was estimated nearly a half million Jewish people showed up.

That temple (technically the First Temple of Herod) was destroyed as Jesus died on the cross. He spoke about every stone in that temple would be brought down prior to that happening. There were a few other prophesies that were realized that day as well.

http://www.bibleresearch.org/articles/a11pws.htm

Just focus on the temple / prophesy part above. The raising of the dead/son of God items like others have suggested out there could have been staged. Even his resurrection could have had a body double.

You can't change history about the temple falling though and when you realize it was when Jesus died, things sort of get chilling.

 

[alkemyst]

Good 'ol JD-come-lately. Was counting down the time when you'd peek your little head in here.

He is being honest though, I can't say I care for him nor you; but you are dodging the hard questions.

However; in many holy books: the God(s) have asked a mortal to kill off a child.

The main problems with these kinds of threads are:

1) Most don't know the history of the times.

2) Most haven't read the book(s) they are defending / attacking.

3) Most haven't had non-secular instruction in the real meanings behind the original texts.

I am very open-minded about religion. I make no judgments to anyone on what faith or lack of faith they have unless they think that allows them to live their live at everyone else's expense.

 

[JEDIYoda]

while yours is regurgitated crap from an old book that makes no logical sense and cant hold up to scrutiny.

It makes no logical sense because you have never studied the book! You only regurgitate what you wish failing to realize that it is your lack of understanding that is the problem with the Bible!!

Feel free to ask for an explanation of what you claim to be things that make no sense.

That is what people like you do when confronted with the truth yet fail to see the truth before you!

You should really get yourself so study materials such as a Concordance......and study the Bible.

The reason you do not see a Loving God is because you do not understand the things of the Bible.
You do not understand the difference between the law and grace....or for that matter Dispensation. as they apply to the Bible...

It`s a true waste of time to acknowledge anything you say to be valid, when you have shown that you have no understanding of the Bible.

Peqace and May the Grace of God shine down upon you!!