The only evidence Bush saw was that he wasn't going to win any elections on the domestic issues.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Where's the leak? God only knows.
etech, please stop hijacking threads by calling my posts delusions. You just want to insult me and contribute nothing conceptual to the discusion. The fact that Bush stopped the vote count has great relevance to his lack of character.
This represents the real who did what stuff re the 2000 election and the court findings and opinions... note the 11 circuit took the pleading on 14 ammendment and maybe ever the 1st... they blew it.... I'm of that opinion... anyhow.
rulings and stuff by Florida, 11th circuit and the Coupers
You do realize that previous US presidents lied to the public and made bad decisions even though they were elected by the majority, right? That fact alone should make you think, and question the president's decisions. That's called being patriotic.
People like you remind me of that Simpsons episode where Lisa makes an intelligence test on Bart by connecting a cookie to electricity. Even though Bart is being hurt by electricity he keeps reaching for that cookie, because he simply does not have the intellect to learn that the next time he reaches for it it will most likely hurt him again.
OMG, you really don't know what the electoral college is?
sorry, just hard to not to school someone who doesn't even understand what they're talking about.
BaDa, you are a disengenuous sort, no? My comment about the electoral college was there to see if you possible could assume someone doesn't know about the electoral college. That's pretty alimentary, no?
I like your notion that the Florida electorate delegates could sort of just vote for bush if they wanted even if Gore won. I think you know better, no. Here's the law:
The People in Each State Vote for Electors in the Electoral College. In most of the states, and also in the District of Columbia, the election is winner-take-all; whichever ticket receives the most votes in that state (or in D.C.) gets all the electors. (The only exceptions are Maine and Nebraska. In these states, just two of the electors are chosen in a winner-take-all fashion from the entire state. The remaining electors are determined by the winner in each congressional district, with each district voting for one elector.)
-------------
The electorate is pledged to vote for a candidate and there isn't the slightest chance in hell that if the ballots had been properly counted and Gore was shown to be the actual winner that he was that the 25 electoral votes from Florida wouldn't have gone to him as well as the Presidency.
Please don't tell people they don't know what they are talking about when you're describing an airy fairy dream.
I like your notion that the Florida electorate delegates could sort of just vote for bush if they wanted even if Gore won. I think you know better, no. Here's the law:
The People in Each State Vote for Electors in the Electoral College. In most of the states, and also in the District of Columbia, the election is winner-take-all; whichever ticket receives the most votes in that state (or in D.C.) gets all the electors. (The only exceptions are Maine and Nebraska. In these states, just two of the electors are chosen in a winner-take-all fashion from the entire state. The remaining electors are determined by the winner in each congressional district, with each district voting for one elector.)
-------------
The electorate is pledged to vote for a candidate and there isn't the slightest chance in hell that if the ballots had been properly counted and Gore was shown to be the actual winner that he was that the 25 electoral votes from Florida wouldn't have gone to him as well as the Presidency.
Please don't tell people they don't know what they are talking about when you're describing an airy fairy dream.
No way in hell eh? Then explain this:
That's right! It's happened 156 times already. Here is a article about one of the more recent ones: http://abcnews.go.com/onair/Nightline/nl001116_leach_feature.html
There is, in fact, NO FEDERAL law that prohibits electors from changing their vote from what they pledged. Now there are some states that passed laws to prohibit this and I am not sure if Florida is among them but it still doesn't matter (especially read that last paragraph). I hope you feel stupid.
That's right! It's happened 156 times already. Here is a article about one of the more recent ones: http://abcnews.go.com/onair/Nightline/nl001116_leach_feature.html
There is, in fact, NO FEDERAL law that prohibits electors from changing their vote from what they pledged. Now there are some states that passed laws to prohibit this and I am not sure if Florida is among them but it still doesn't matter (especially read that last paragraph). I hope you feel stupid.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Quote by BaDaBoom
There is, in fact, NO FEDERAL law that prohibits electors from changing their vote from what they pledged. Now there are some states that passed laws to prohibit this and I am not sure if Florida is among them but it still doesn't matter. I hope you feel stupid.[/quote]
Ain't what Moonbeam said... he opined that there was no chance in hell.... He didn't say there never was a no no vote by the electors... I think the first one was a protest vote.
Ya gotta pin someone down before ya pounce...
There is, in fact, NO FEDERAL law that prohibits electors from changing their vote from what they pledged. Now there are some states that passed laws to prohibit this and I am not sure if Florida is among them but it still doesn't matter. I hope you feel stupid.[/quote]
Ain't what Moonbeam said... he opined that there was no chance in hell.... He didn't say there never was a no no vote by the electors... I think the first one was a protest vote.
Ya gotta pin someone down before ya pounce...
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
BaDa, you are a disengenuous sort, no? My comment about the electoral college was there to see if you possible could assume someone doesn't know about the electoral college. That's pretty alimentary, no?
I like your notion that the Florida electorate delegates could sort of just vote for bush if they wanted even if Gore won. I think you know better, no. Here's the law:
The People in Each State Vote for Electors in the Electoral College. In most of the states, and also in the District of Columbia, the election is winner-take-all; whichever ticket receives the most votes in that state (or in D.C.) gets all the electors. (The only exceptions are Maine and Nebraska. In these states, just two of the electors are chosen in a winner-take-all fashion from the entire state. The remaining electors are determined by the winner in each congressional district, with each district voting for one elector.)
-------------
The electorate is pledged to vote for a candidate and there isn't the slightest chance in hell that if the ballots had been properly counted and Gore was shown to be the actual winner that he was that the 25 electoral votes from Florida wouldn't have gone to him as well as the Presidency.
Please don't tell people they don't know what they are talking about when you're describing an airy fairy dream.
Tales of the Unfaithful Electors
One of the common criticisms of the U.S. Electoral College is that the electors are not legally bound to vote for a candidate. The "faithless electors" have never been more than one or two isolated individuals in any election, and their breach of trust has never changed the outcome of an election. Still, the idea that a single elector could change the course of history is both romantic and frightening.
...
ELECTORAL COLLEGE
Each party within a state selects a slate of electors numerically equal to the state's congressional delegation--representatives plus senators. The electors normally pledge to vote for the nominees of their party, but they are not constitutionally required to do so. When the American people vote for president and vice president, they are actually voting for slates of electors pledged to their candidates. Because the electors usually are chosen at large, the electoral vote of each state is cast as a unit, and the victorious presidential and vice presidential nominees in each state win the state's entire electoral vote. The candidates receiving a majority of the total electoral vote in the United States are elected.
List of Electors Bound by State Law and Pledges, As of November 2000
No Legal Requirement. Electors in these States are not bound by State Law to cast their vote for a specific candidate:
ARIZONA - 8 Electoral Votes
ARKANSAS - 6 Electoral Votes
DELAWARE - 3 Electoral Votes
GEORGIA - 13 Electoral Votes
IDAHO - 4 Electoral Votes
ILLINOIS - 22 Electoral Votes
INDIANA - 12 Electoral Votes
IOWA - 7 Electoral Votes
KANSAS - 6 Electoral Votes
KENTUCKY - 8 Electoral Votes
LOUISIANA - 9 Electoral Votes
MINNESOTA - 10 Electoral Votes
MISSOURI - 11 Electoral Votes
NEW HAMPSHIRE - 4 Electoral Votes
NEW JERSEY - 15 Electoral Votes
NEW YORK - 33 Electoral Votes
NORTH DAKOTA - 3 Electoral Votes
PENNSYLVANIA - 23 Electoral Votes
RHODE ISLAND - 4 Electoral Votes
SOUTH DAKOTA - 3 Electoral Votes
TENNESSEE - 11 Electoral Votes
TEXAS - 32 Electoral Votes
UTAH - 5 Electoral Votes
WEST VIRGINIA - 5 Electoral Votes
Legal Requirements or Pledges. Electors in these States are bound by State Law or by pledges to cast their vote for a specific candidate:
ALABAMA - 9 Electoral Votes
Party Pledge / State Law - § 17-19-2
ALASKA - 3 Electoral Votes
Party Pledge / State Law - § 15.30.040; 15.30.070
CALIFORNIA - 54 Electoral Votes
State Law - § 6906
COLORADO - 8 Electoral Votes
State Law - § 1-4-304
CONNECTICUT - 8 Electoral Votes
State Law § 9-175
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA - 3 Electoral Votes
DC Pledge / DC Law - § 1-1312(g)
FLORIDA - 25 Electoral Votes
Party Pledge / State Law - § 103.021(1)
HAWAII - 4 Electoral Votes
State Law - §§ 14-26 to 14-28
MAINE - 4 Electoral Votes
State Law - § 805
MARYLAND - 10 Electoral Votes
State Law - § 20-4
MASSACHUSETTS - 12 Electoral Votes
Party Pledge / State Law - Ch. 53, § 8, Supp.
MICHIGAN - 18 Electoral Votes
State Law - §168.47 (Violation cancels vote and elector is replaced).
MISSISSIPPI - 7 Electoral Votes
Party Pledge / State Law - §23-15-785(3)
MONTANA - 3 Electoral Votes
State Law - §13-25-104
NEBRASKA - 5 Electoral Votes
State Law - § 32-714
NEVADA - 4 Electoral Votes
State Law - § 298.050
NEW MEXICO - 5 Electoral Votes
State Law - § 1-15-5 to 1-15-9 (Violation is a fourth degree felony.)
NORTH CAROLINA - 14 Electoral Votes
State Law - § 163-212 (Violation cancels vote; elector is replaced and is subject to $500 fine.)
OHIO - 21 Electoral Votes
State Law - § 3505.40
OKLAHOMA - 8 Electoral Votes
State Pledge / State Law - 26, §§ 10-102; 10-109 (Violation of oath is a misdemeanor, carrying a fine of up to $1000.)
OREGON - 7 Electoral Votes
State Pledge / State Law - § 248.355
SOUTH CAROLINA - 8 Electoral Votes
State Pledge / State Law - § 7-19-80 (Replacement and criminal sanctions for violation.)
VERMONT - 3 Electoral Votes
State Law - title 17, § 2732
* VIRGINIA - 13 Electoral Votes
State Law - § 24.1-162 (Virginia statute may be advisory - "Shall be expected" to vote for nominees.)
WASHINGTON - 11 Electoral Votes
Party Pledge / State Law - §§ 29.71.020, 29.71.040, Supp. ($1000 fine.)
WISCONSIN - 11 Electoral Votes
State Law - § 7.75
WYOMING - 3 Electoral Votes
State Law - §§ 22-19-106; 22-19-108
FLORIDA Political Party central committee Fla. Statutes 103.021 unnamed slate (at-large) No
I see no reason to add any comment to this.
So 156 times in American history is no chance in hell?
The last one was, in fact, in the election of 2000 by an elector from Washington DC.
Thanks etech, hopefully this will finally stop Moonbeam bullsh1t rantings on the 2000 elections. Every time after this I will just link to this thread.
Thanks etech, hopefully this will finally stop Moonbeam bullsh1t rantings on the 2000 elections. Every time after this I will just link to this thread.
Exactly, no chance in hell. Like I said, you are dreaming. The 25 Gore delegates would have voted for Gore.
Edit: You are entitled to your opinion, Carb, but Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and I completely disagree. America was spun into war by the neocon New American Century in the Bush Admin.
Edit: You are entitled to your opinion, Carb, but Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and I completely disagree. America was spun into war by the neocon New American Century in the Bush Admin.
"I feel the need to tell you that DE NILE is not just a river in Egypt!"
Then again, he may just keep being as thick-headed as usual.
Edit: you still don't know what that word means, do you?
Lets try to get our bearings here pince pedantry is running rampid. BaDa made this fantastic claim:
"OMG, you really don't know what the electoral college is? How can you go around spouting about how the president stole the election when you don't even know how our elections work? Well, if you knew what the electoral college was then you would know that it doesn't matter whether Gore won Florida or not. When it comes to who really ends up in the white house, it is the electoral college that votes who gets there - not the people of the United States. 95% of the time those in the electoral college vote for whoever won in the state that they represent, however this is NOT required. As I stated before there have been 3 other presidents who did not have the popular vote. Also it has happened that a state has voted for a candidate in the electoral college who did NOT receive the popular vote in that state and it was perfectly legal. Go read some government books. "
Note the intention to claim I'm ignorant and that the Pres can be elected without the popular vote as if I made that claim. Straw dog. Then we se 95% follows the vote. WOW sort of what I said later. Don't know the percentage. Do know that state vote and electoral vote and will of the people has always been 100 percent according to other sites. Then notice the implication that the deligates aren't required to vote for the winner as if this had anything to do with what actually would have happened in Florida.
You are talking airy fairy theory and I was talking reality.
To etech. Below is 103.021 of Florida law. Notice that party members who take an oath to vote for their candidate are the only ones who the Governor can appoint. I think an oath is better than a law, don't you. Remember, my point only, was that Gore lost the election because his deligates weren't allowed to vote in the Electoral College. That didn't happen because, although it was later determined that he got the most legal votes state wide, which means that he was the actually winner, Bush prevailed in stopping the vote count and preventing the will of the people from being expressed.
103.021 Nomination for presidential electors.-
Candidates for presidential electors shall be nominated in the following manner: (1) The Governor shall nominate the presidential electors of each political party. He or she shall nominate only the electors recommended by the state executive committee of the respective political party. Each such elector shall be a qualified elector of the party he or she represents who has taken an oath that he or she will vote for the candidates of the party that he or she is nominated to represent. The Governor shall certify to the Department of State on or before September 1, in each presidential election year, the names of a number of electors for each political party equal to the number of senators and representatives which this state has in Congress. (2) The names of the presidential electors shall not be printed on the general election ballot, but the names of the actual candidates for President and Vice President for whom the presidential electors will vote if elected shall be printed on the ballot in the order in which the party of which the candidate is a nominee polled the highest number of votes for Governor in the last general election. (3) Candidates for President and Vice President with no party affiliation may have their names printed on the general election ballots if a petition is signed by 1 percent of the registered electors of this state, as shown by the compilation by the Department of State for the last preceding general election. A separate petition from each county for which signatures are solicited
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the words of GUTB, keep it real.
"OMG, you really don't know what the electoral college is? How can you go around spouting about how the president stole the election when you don't even know how our elections work? Well, if you knew what the electoral college was then you would know that it doesn't matter whether Gore won Florida or not. When it comes to who really ends up in the white house, it is the electoral college that votes who gets there - not the people of the United States. 95% of the time those in the electoral college vote for whoever won in the state that they represent, however this is NOT required. As I stated before there have been 3 other presidents who did not have the popular vote. Also it has happened that a state has voted for a candidate in the electoral college who did NOT receive the popular vote in that state and it was perfectly legal. Go read some government books. "
Note the intention to claim I'm ignorant and that the Pres can be elected without the popular vote as if I made that claim. Straw dog. Then we se 95% follows the vote. WOW sort of what I said later. Don't know the percentage. Do know that state vote and electoral vote and will of the people has always been 100 percent according to other sites. Then notice the implication that the deligates aren't required to vote for the winner as if this had anything to do with what actually would have happened in Florida.
You are talking airy fairy theory and I was talking reality.
To etech. Below is 103.021 of Florida law. Notice that party members who take an oath to vote for their candidate are the only ones who the Governor can appoint. I think an oath is better than a law, don't you. Remember, my point only, was that Gore lost the election because his deligates weren't allowed to vote in the Electoral College. That didn't happen because, although it was later determined that he got the most legal votes state wide, which means that he was the actually winner, Bush prevailed in stopping the vote count and preventing the will of the people from being expressed.
103.021 Nomination for presidential electors.-
Candidates for presidential electors shall be nominated in the following manner: (1) The Governor shall nominate the presidential electors of each political party. He or she shall nominate only the electors recommended by the state executive committee of the respective political party. Each such elector shall be a qualified elector of the party he or she represents who has taken an oath that he or she will vote for the candidates of the party that he or she is nominated to represent. The Governor shall certify to the Department of State on or before September 1, in each presidential election year, the names of a number of electors for each political party equal to the number of senators and representatives which this state has in Congress. (2) The names of the presidential electors shall not be printed on the general election ballot, but the names of the actual candidates for President and Vice President for whom the presidential electors will vote if elected shall be printed on the ballot in the order in which the party of which the candidate is a nominee polled the highest number of votes for Governor in the last general election. (3) Candidates for President and Vice President with no party affiliation may have their names printed on the general election ballots if a petition is signed by 1 percent of the registered electors of this state, as shown by the compilation by the Department of State for the last preceding general election. A separate petition from each county for which signatures are solicited
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the words of GUTB, keep it real.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
LOL! God you are naive. Right, that's why in approximately 50 presidential elections, 18 of them had electors that went against their oath.
Yeah, I'm the one who's naive all right. If Gore had won Florida in the original phony count he would have lost anyway because his 25 delegates who swore an oath to vote for him would have voted for Bush. In your hallucinations, maybe. Keep it real.
Boy are you naive, BaDa. I got news for you, your ridiculous claims not withstanding. The sky actually is blue. That fact noted and reported on round the world is also known by every child. I just can't believe you would claim otherwise. What more simple fact could their be easier to verify than that and yet you think you can convince me otherwise. You are not only naive, your argument with me was all self manufactured and had nothing to do with anything I said. How dumb can you be? The sky really really really is blue. Get with it please. Stop this silly argument to the contrary. You are just going to lose. You don't have a chance against my superior eyesight and lack of color blind reasoning. You are over the ropes. Give it up. I win. The sky is blue. Really.
Amazing.
------------------------
FormnotC: Gore won. Shut up.
Boy are you naive, BaDa. I got news for you, your ridiculous claims not withstanding. The sky actually is blue. That fact noted and reported on round the world is also known by every child. I just can't believe you would claim otherwise. What more simple fact could their be easier to verify than that and yet you think you can convince me otherwise. You are not only naive, your argument with me was all self manufactured and had nothing to do with anything I said. How dumb can you be? The sky really really really is blue. Get with it please. Stop this silly argument to the contrary. You are just going to lose. You don't have a chance against my superior eyesight and lack of color blind reasoning. You are over the ropes. Give it up. I win. The sky is blue. Really.
Amazing.
------------------------
FormnotC: Gore won. Shut up.
Gore conceded, hehe. For eight years the Republican's trashed the Presidency of poor Bill Clinton driving him to extramarital sex and then lying about it. All we heard was character character character and family values family values. And what did we get, a thief, afraud and a boob who can't talk. We got an empty suit, a poser and a stooge. Gore is irrelevant as long as we are willing to see that Bush is every bit as worthless as Clinton and will, in the long run, probably have done far more real damage. Preemptive war. What a joke, what a crime. The only grace is that he was not the will of the people.
It's important to look in the mirror.
It's important to look in the mirror.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Thanks for the laugh. The rest of your post should just go in your sig. so you don't have to keep re-typing it over and over and over and over . . .
Yep, that vast right wing conspiracy. Oh, wait a minute, that's what Hillary said before her child molester husband got caught porking the porker.
Moonbeam, as you can see, everyone is telling you to shut up about it already. We have slapped you in the face with fact backed up by sources. You are just being completely irrational and are in major denial evident by your ramblings of blue skys and "You're on the ropes". Of course that's what you had to turn to because you can't rebutt etech or my posts about the facts of how US elections work. Even those that share your views on the war are ashamed of your pathetic Custer-stand whining about the election.
Hehe, I see you've looked in the mirror. Now you just have to identify the body.
BaDa: Moonbeam, as you can see, everyone is telling you to shut up about it already.
-----------------
There are millions of galaxies beyond your ken that scream for your silence. Can you hear them?
BaDa: We have slapped you in the face with fact backed up by sources.
---------------------
You invented the obvious, pretended it was in contention, and claimed a victory. You slapped yourself with a silly stick and continue to do so because you think my lack of submission is like your will to win. For me you are an illustration on how people don't think.
BaDa: You are just being completely irrational and are in major denial evident by your ramblings of blue skys and "You're on the ropes".
-------------------
I merely showed you directly how ridiculous you look.
-----------------------------
BaDa: Of course that's what you had to turn to because you can't rebutt etech or my posts about the facts of how US elections work. -------------------------------
We know the sky is blue so we know you lose. See how you run from the real facts. The sky is blue. Sorry!
------------
BaDa: Even those that share your views on the war are ashamed of your pathetic Custer-stand whining about the election.
----------------------
Ah yes, you are ashamed. No need to be. You merely created an argument out of nothing and claimed you won. I see it happen here every day. You are not alone in your absence of critical thinking skills. That's why I'm helping you. No need to feel ashamed. It just turns your mind off to seeing. Be open and frank about your errors. Galaxies of people are cheering you on. Whole civilizations of sentient beings have transcended shame.
BaDa: Moonbeam, as you can see, everyone is telling you to shut up about it already.
-----------------
There are millions of galaxies beyond your ken that scream for your silence. Can you hear them?
BaDa: We have slapped you in the face with fact backed up by sources.
---------------------
You invented the obvious, pretended it was in contention, and claimed a victory. You slapped yourself with a silly stick and continue to do so because you think my lack of submission is like your will to win.
For me you are an illustration on how people don't think.BaDa: You are just being completely irrational and are in major denial evident by your ramblings of blue skys and "You're on the ropes".
-------------------
I merely showed you directly how ridiculous you look.
-----------------------------
BaDa: Of course that's what you had to turn to because you can't rebutt etech or my posts about the facts of how US elections work. -------------------------------
We know the sky is blue so we know you lose.
See how you run from the real facts. The sky is blue. Sorry!------------
BaDa: Even those that share your views on the war are ashamed of your pathetic Custer-stand whining about the election.
----------------------
Ah yes, you are ashamed. No need to be. You merely created an argument out of nothing and claimed you won. I see it happen here every day. You are not alone in your absence of critical thinking skills. That's why I'm helping you. No need to feel ashamed. It just turns your mind off to seeing. Be open and frank about your errors. Galaxies of people are cheering you on. Whole civilizations of sentient beings have transcended shame.
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