The tax poll

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: ScottyB
Get rid of all sales taxes. Raise/lower income taxes to the following:

0-$25,000 (of total income) -- 0%
$25,001-$50,000 -- 20%
$50,001-$100,000 -- 35%
$100,001-$1,000,000 -- 50%
$1,000,001-$100,000,000 -- 75%
$100,000,001+ -- 90%

Corporations to be taxed as individuals. All earned money is taxed (regardless if comes from stocks, bonds, etc.) One tax exception: Personal property can be sold without taxation if it is owned for at least one year (three years for land and/or houses).

What a horrible idea.

Yeah, those poor poor rich folks. :roll:

Yes they will just take their money and move elsewhere. They are rich, not stupid.

Sounds like a sure fire way to drive all the bigger businesses and tons of jobs right of of the country (basically anyone could leave, would.)

My most hated tax? F' FICA. I'm never going to see that and its a ton a money. Prop tax can be bad as well, but is more of a state thing than Fed, so I didn't apply it here.

Hate to say it, but a sales tax combined with a mild & capped income tax seems most fair. No one can dodge sales taxes (as the wealthier you get, the more tax benefits/ loopholes you get access to) but with some small increasing income tax as not to shift tax-burden too regressively. Allow too much social/financial stratification and society will become angry and unstable. Otherwise the gov't just needs to cut down on all the money that is foolishly spent (like fish planes, ill-concieved wars, and poorly designed entitlement programs.)

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

How about instead of trying to figure out which tax is best, we just put a cap on govn't spending? Then tie spending increases to inflation. Y'know... institute a little bit of sanity into the budget process.

As for my tax preferences...

I'd get rid of the income tax (personal and corporate) and institute a sales tax.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
How about instead of trying to figure out which tax is best, we just put a cap on govn't spending? Then tie spending increases to inflation. Y'know... institute a little bit of sanity into the budget process.

:thumbsup:

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
How about instead of trying to figure out which tax is best, we just put a cap on govn't spending? Then tie spending increases to inflation. Y'know... institute a little bit of sanity into the budget process.

As for my tax preferences...

I'd get rid of the income tax (personal and corporate) and institute a sales tax.

I think you missed the point of the poll.

 

[zendari]

33/33/33% Income/Sales/Property taxes. Capital Gains/Dividends are taxed as regular income. Remove the Death Tax. Remove many deductions and loopholes.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: zendari
33/33/33% Income/Sales/Property taxes. Capital Gains/Dividends are taxed as regular income. Remove the Death Tax. Remove many deductions and loopholes.

Never thought I'd agree with you on something...

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: zendari
33/33/33% Income/Sales/Property taxes. Capital Gains/Dividends are taxed as regular income. Remove the Death Tax. Remove many deductions and loopholes.

Never thought I'd agree with you on something...

Like I said before, I believe in Fairness. Passive income is income.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: zendari
33/33/33% Income/Sales/Property taxes. Capital Gains/Dividends are taxed as regular income. Remove the Death Tax. Remove many deductions and loopholes.

Never thought I'd agree with you on something...

And that would lead to massive tax cheating or massive goverment revenues.

A sales tax of less than 25% would bring in the required revenues to run the goverment.
33% income is almost the same as our top marginal rate now.

33% property tax is unobtainable. A property tax of 3% brings howls to most homeowners.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: charrison

And that would lead to massive tax cheating or massive goverment revenues.

A sales tax of less than 25% would bring in the required revenues to run the goverment.
33% income is almost the same as our top marginal rate now.

33% property tax is unobtainable. A property tax of 3% brings howls to most homeowners.

I didn't mean it in that fashion. Given a certain required amount of tax revenue, split it up amonst those 3 categories equally.

 

[spaceman]

property taxes and excise tax are the two that really need to be done away with imo.

 

[dullard]

My favorite tax: wealth tax. Those who have the most stuff (money, property, goods) can most afford the tax and are least harmed by the tax. Sadly, we only have part of a wealth tax (property tax). I would like wealth taxes expanded and the other taxes greatly reduced.

My least favorite tax: SS tax. Its the tax that most significantly taxes the poor at higher rates than the rich. That just makes no sense at all. At least make the tax rates the same for poor/rich.

I can deal with income tax but I think there are better ways. You can have a low income and be quite wealthy or a high income and dirt poor. The income tax fails on those extremes.

I can deal with a sales tax, but it has its drawbacks.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: Train

during the great depression the USA had a max rate of 91%, and for almost 10 years the unemployment rate held steady at 19%. Then the govt reduced it to 39%, the tax revenues soared, and the unemployment rate plummeted.

[/quote]

Then it would follow that a 0% rate would lead to infinite revenue!

Of course you are the same people who cried about a recession when Clinton passed the Deficit Reduction Act with zero Republican help.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: charrison
1. Remove all corperate income taxes. Removing this would would be a boom for this country.

explain.

You are going to open a business. Country A has 0% corperate income tax, and country B has has a 30% corperate income tax. All other things being equal, where do you locate your business?

For what kind of tax doesn't that apply. Where would you rather buy land a place with 0% tax or 50% taxs. How about buy a car a place with 0% tax or 50% tax. Maybe you would rather get a job at 0% tax or 30% tax.

This is not a difficult concept.

 

[mect]

They need to get rid of tax brackets. It is stupid that one person making 50K with the same deductions can end up with less money than a person making $49,999. For an income tax, I see no reason to have the tax rate have a continuous change, maybe something like tax = (income-$25,000)*0.5 so that people making less than 25K pay no takes, at 30k you are paying about 8%, 40k 19%, 100k 37%, and it will asymptotically approach 50% (or some other value if you prefer). Now this equation I suggested would need a little tweeking (I just made it up real quick to make my point) so the rate didn't rise so fast at first, but the general idea is just that there isn't some magic number you try to stay below to stay out of the next tax bracket. If you make a little more, your tax rate will go up a little more, but there is never some sudden big jump for crossing a line. You will always be better off making more money. I am also in favor of sales tax on non-necessity items. I am against property tax. Once you own something, you should own it.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: mect
They need to get rid of tax brackets. It is stupid that one person making 50K with the same deductions can end up with less money than a person making $49,999. For an income tax, I see no reason to have the tax rate have a continuous change, maybe something like tax = (income-$25,000)*0.5 so that people making less than 25K pay no takes, at 30k you are paying about 8%, 40k 19%, 100k 37%, and it will asymptotically approach 50% (or some other value if you prefer). Now this equation I suggested would need a little tweeking (I just made it up real quick to make my point) so the rate didn't rise so fast at first, but the general idea is just that there isn't some magic number you try to stay below to stay out of the next tax bracket. If you make a little more, your tax rate will go up a little more, but there is never some sudden big jump for crossing a line. You will always be better off making more money. I am also in favor of sales tax on non-necessity items. I am against property tax. Once you own something, you should own it.

Ugh learn how the tax code works. You pay only higher taxes on the amount over 50k. So if you make more then 50K you will always take home more then a person making less then 50K all else equal.

Sales tax is the worst tax. It discruages investment and purchasing the two thing that drive the economy.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: mect
They need to get rid of tax brackets. It is stupid that one person making 50K with the same deductions can end up with less money than a person making $49,999. For an income tax, I see no reason to have the tax rate have a continuous change, maybe something like tax = (income-$25,000)*0.5 so that people making less than 25K pay no takes, at 30k you are paying about 8%, 40k 19%, 100k 37%, and it will asymptotically approach 50% (or some other value if you prefer). Now this equation I suggested would need a little tweeking (I just made it up real quick to make my point) so the rate didn't rise so fast at first, but the general idea is just that there isn't some magic number you try to stay below to stay out of the next tax bracket. If you make a little more, your tax rate will go up a little more, but there is never some sudden big jump for crossing a line. You will always be better off making more money. I am also in favor of sales tax on non-necessity items. I am against property tax. Once you own something, you should own it.

I agree with you but not for the reasons you listed. The existing tax brackets don't work quite the way you described.

(I made the tax brackets up) It's not that the guy making $49,999 pays 15% while the guy who makes $50,000 pays 20% on all $50,000. In reality the guy who made $50k paid 15% on all his income up to $49,999 and then paid the higher rate for every dollar he made above that level. That's how it works.

If we're going to have an income tax then the flat tax works for me. All income up to $35k is exempt. Then you pay 15 or whatever percent for all income generated above that level.

And yeah... property tax is a bad idea.

 

[mect]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: mect
They need to get rid of tax brackets. It is stupid that one person making 50K with the same deductions can end up with less money than a person making $49,999. For an income tax, I see no reason to have the tax rate have a continuous change, maybe something like tax = (income-$25,000)*0.5 so that people making less than 25K pay no takes, at 30k you are paying about 8%, 40k 19%, 100k 37%, and it will asymptotically approach 50% (or some other value if you prefer). Now this equation I suggested would need a little tweeking (I just made it up real quick to make my point) so the rate didn't rise so fast at first, but the general idea is just that there isn't some magic number you try to stay below to stay out of the next tax bracket. If you make a little more, your tax rate will go up a little more, but there is never some sudden big jump for crossing a line. You will always be better off making more money. I am also in favor of sales tax on non-necessity items. I am against property tax. Once you own something, you should own it.

Ugh learn how the tax code works. You pay only higher taxes on the amount over 50k. So if you make more then 50K you will always take home more then a person making less then 50K all else equal.

Sales tax is the worst tax. It discruages investment and purchasing the two thing that drive the economy.

I realize tax brackets aren't as simple as I've described, and that the taxes are only on the excess over the bracket; I just was being careless because my point was that I'm against step functions being used in taxation. (now if you want to be picky its okay if a step function based on a our current monetary step is used).

 

[mect]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: mect
They need to get rid of tax brackets. It is stupid that one person making 50K with the same deductions can end up with less money than a person making $49,999. For an income tax, I see no reason to have the tax rate have a continuous change, maybe something like tax = (income-$25,000)*0.5 so that people making less than 25K pay no takes, at 30k you are paying about 8%, 40k 19%, 100k 37%, and it will asymptotically approach 50% (or some other value if you prefer). Now this equation I suggested would need a little tweeking (I just made it up real quick to make my point) so the rate didn't rise so fast at first, but the general idea is just that there isn't some magic number you try to stay below to stay out of the next tax bracket. If you make a little more, your tax rate will go up a little more, but there is never some sudden big jump for crossing a line. You will always be better off making more money. I am also in favor of sales tax on non-necessity items. I am against property tax. Once you own something, you should own it.

Ugh learn how the tax code works. You pay only higher taxes on the amount over 50k. So if you make more then 50K you will always take home more then a person making less then 50K all else equal.

Sales tax is the worst tax. It discruages investment and purchasing the two thing that drive the economy.

How does sales tax deter people from purchasing and investing at the same time?

 

[miketheidiot]

i'm kind of surprised that so many people think income tax is less of a burden on growth than the property tax. Between corporate and persoanl income taxes its leading 18 to 6.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: dullard
My favorite tax: wealth tax. Those who have the most stuff (money, property, goods) can most afford the tax and are least harmed by the tax. Sadly, we only have part of a wealth tax (property tax). I would like wealth taxes expanded and the other taxes greatly reduced.

My least favorite tax: SS tax. Its the tax that most significantly taxes the poor at higher rates than the rich. That just makes no sense at all. At least make the tax rates the same for poor/rich.

Social security caps are also used on the payout end. If you want to tax Gates's full income he's owen millions of dollars a month come retirement.

It makes perfect sense.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: mect

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: mect
They need to get rid of tax brackets. It is stupid that one person making 50K with the same deductions can end up with less money than a person making $49,999. For an income tax, I see no reason to have the tax rate have a continuous change, maybe something like tax = (income-$25,000)*0.5 so that people making less than 25K pay no takes, at 30k you are paying about 8%, 40k 19%, 100k 37%, and it will asymptotically approach 50% (or some other value if you prefer). Now this equation I suggested would need a little tweeking (I just made it up real quick to make my point) so the rate didn't rise so fast at first, but the general idea is just that there isn't some magic number you try to stay below to stay out of the next tax bracket. If you make a little more, your tax rate will go up a little more, but there is never some sudden big jump for crossing a line. You will always be better off making more money. I am also in favor of sales tax on non-necessity items. I am against property tax. Once you own something, you should own it.

Ugh learn how the tax code works. You pay only higher taxes on the amount over 50k. So if you make more then 50K you will always take home more then a person making less then 50K all else equal.

Sales tax is the worst tax. It discruages investment and purchasing the two thing that drive the economy.

How does sales tax deter people from purchasing and investing at the same time?

lets say I want to open a new restraunt. I have to outlay 1 million dollars for capital inverstments. The ovens, building, ect. If you add a 10% sales tax I know need to outlay1.1 million. There for the tax discurages investment. It also makes it hard to compete with an established compitor because in the first year of business you are pay 100k in taxes and your competior is pay almost zero.

With income tax you don't pay a dime in taxes until your investment is succesfull which reduces risk.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
i'm kind of surprised that so many people think income tax is less of a burden on growth than the property tax. Between corporate and persoanl income taxes its leading 18 to 6.

Property tax is good for growt. It forces people to put there land to work. Use it or lose it.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: mect

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: mect
They need to get rid of tax brackets. It is stupid that one person making 50K with the same deductions can end up with less money than a person making $49,999. For an income tax, I see no reason to have the tax rate have a continuous change, maybe something like tax = (income-$25,000)*0.5 so that people making less than 25K pay no takes, at 30k you are paying about 8%, 40k 19%, 100k 37%, and it will asymptotically approach 50% (or some other value if you prefer). Now this equation I suggested would need a little tweeking (I just made it up real quick to make my point) so the rate didn't rise so fast at first, but the general idea is just that there isn't some magic number you try to stay below to stay out of the next tax bracket. If you make a little more, your tax rate will go up a little more, but there is never some sudden big jump for crossing a line. You will always be better off making more money. I am also in favor of sales tax on non-necessity items. I am against property tax. Once you own something, you should own it.

Ugh learn how the tax code works. You pay only higher taxes on the amount over 50k. So if you make more then 50K you will always take home more then a person making less then 50K all else equal.

Sales tax is the worst tax. It discruages investment and purchasing the two thing that drive the economy.

How does sales tax deter people from purchasing and investing at the same time?

lets say I want to open a new restraunt. I have to outlay 1 million dollars for capital inverstments. The ovens, building, ect. If you add a 10% sales tax I know need to outlay1.1 million. There for the tax discurages investment. It also makes it hard to compete with an established compitor because in the first year of business you are pay 100k in taxes and your competior is pay almost zero.

With income tax you don't pay a dime in taxes until your investment is succesfull which reduces risk.

When you say 'investing' people generally understand that to mean you change your currency into imaginary money by buying stocks.

mect - you realize that all you've actually done ise replaced a multiply-bracketed tax system with a system having only two brackets, right? Qualitatively, it's the same thing.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Income tax is one of the cheapest, easiest, and least intrusive of taxes, especially when compared to property taxes or the hidden costs of sales taxes.

You are on crack and living up to your username.

The personal income tax is the most expensive, most difficult, and most intrusive of all taxes. Just complying with it costs taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars every year.


My answers were:
- User fees (by far the fairest system of taxation, pay only for what you use).
- Income tax (by far the least fair, most expensive, and most intrusive of privacy).
- Personal income tax.

After user fees, the 2nd best system of taxation is real estate property taxes. It forces landowners to put their property to work (i.e. in the "highest and best use"), and helps to keep land values stable.

 

[IronWing]

For "best" tax I'm split between capital gains and the estate tax. A hefty estate tax with an equally hefty lower limit is absolutely essential to preventing the creation of a permanent aristocracy. The capital gains tax hits unearned income and is therefore somewhat preferable to taxing earned income.

Getting rid of the corporate income tax is a good idea in that the personal income tax should cover the same ground without requiring corporations to do the paperwork that is really the responsibility of the individual shareholders. The corporate income tax is also regressive in that all shareholders pay the same rate regardless of income.

Property taxes tie property ownership to local services and are a reasonable way of spreading the damage. However, the system needs to be fair, based on market values. The current system of different rates for homes, businesses, and agriculture creates market distortions that can damage communities. The Prop 13 approach to creating a favoured class of owners is obscene.


For most burdensome to growth I selected the sales tax. The "luxury" tax fiasco demonstrated the very real link between tax rate oand willingness to buy. High sales taxes deter sales.