The Steady and Perpetual Decline in the Standard of Living

[tcG]

I get the feeling that over the past 50 or so years, American purchasing power has steadily eroded. People are working more hours to buy lower quality goods. This is especially true for "core" goods like housing and food which haven't been made cheaper through technological innovations.

...all of this when purchasing power and standard of living should be INCREASING due to technology, large scale production, et. al. What gives?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I get the feeling that over the past 50 or so years, American purchasing power has steadily eroded. People are working more hours to buy lower quality goods. This is especially true for "core" goods like housing and food which haven't been made cheaper through technological innovations.

...all of this when purchasing power and standard of living should be INCREASING due to technology, large scale production, et. al. What gives?

Off shoring and a global market. When much of the world's economy is far below the U.S., the average lifestyle in the U.S. falls as the poorer countries rise.

 

[ivwshane]

I get the feeling that over the past 50 or so years, American purchasing power has steadily eroded. People are working more hours to buy lower quality goods. This is especially true for "core" goods like housing and food which haven't been made cheaper through technological innovations.

...all of this when purchasing power and standard of living should be INCREASING due to technology, large scale production, et. al. What gives?

We've been trained to feel bad for wanting to take care of ourselves via something other than buying crap.

Want to retire? You are a taker.
Want to go on vacation? You are lazy and will be replaced.
Want a raise? You don't deserve it, the company isn't making enough money and people are losing their jobs.
Want a better job? Good luck with your healthcare.
Want to keep your pay and healthcare from being lowered by incompetent management? Fine we will just close down the business.

There are at least two things that I see that are issues; 1st no universal heslthcare is making the job market uncompetitive, whether it's people wanting to go to a different company but can't because of healthcare associated reasons or small companies unable to compete with larger ones that offer healthcare.
2nd is that consumers have lost sight of the fact that money talks and if they don't like a product or company they should be expressing it by taking their business somewhere else.

 

[tcG]

Off shoring and a global market. When much of the world's economy is far below the U.S., the average lifestyle in the U.S. falls as the poorer countries rise.

Aren't both of those things theoretically supposed to drive down prices? More abundance (whether from technology increases, trade, or large scale production) -> lower prices (and thus higher real wages/standard of living)

Jobs may be temporarily lost, sure, but that's just readjustment.

 

[IronWing]

Aren't both of those things theoretically supposed to drive down prices?

Jobs may be temporarily lost, sure, but that's just readjustment.

They transfer the benefits of increased productivity from the worker to the company owners. The good paying jobs are effectively gone forever as employers practice labor arbitrage chasing ever more impoverished labor markets via "free trade" agreements. Employers have decided that they are entitled to cheap labor. Unions and tariffs used to be a bulwark against this type of abuse but employers have convinced workers that unions are bad and the cause of the workers' woes instead of the remedy.

 

[rudder]

Off shoring and a global market. When much of the world's economy is far below the U.S., the average lifestyle in the U.S. falls as the poorer countries rise.

In addition to an influx of 20 million illegal laborers who depressed wages in many industries that used to support people living in the middle class.... masons, plumbers, carpenters, heavy construction, etc.

 

[Jhhnn]

Aren't both of those things theoretically supposed to drive down prices? More abundance (whether from technology increases, trade, or large scale production) -> lower prices (and thus higher real wages/standard of living)

Jobs may be temporarily lost, sure, but that's just readjustment.

Well, yeh, but there's a catch- price doesn't matter if you don't have income... if you don't have a job or some sort of assistance...

Unless you're like Mitt, who doesn't really have a job, either...

 

[OverVolt]

Yea when it comes to the economy people can't even tell up from down. Its a lost cause lmao.

 

[OverVolt]

In addition to an influx of 20 million illegal laborers who depressed wages in many industries that used to support people living in the middle class.... masons, plumbers, carpenters, heavy construction, etc.

But they produced real wealth locally in the country. Brick walls, running faucets, large buildings.

Hmm :hmm:

 

[OverVolt]

Aren't both of those things theoretically supposed to drive down prices? More abundance (whether from technology increases, trade, or large scale production) -> lower prices (and thus higher real wages/standard of living)

Jobs may be temporarily lost, sure, but that's just readjustment.

I think it is kinda odd that it is still cheaper to ship a $5 T-shirt 18,000 miles from China meanwhile energy prices are a constant complaint. Ignoring money, it doesn't actually make sense that we practice this.

 

[Slew Foot]

I think it is kinda odd that it is still cheaper to ship a $5 T-shirt 18,000 miles from China meanwhile energy prices are a constant complaint. Ignoring money, it doesn't actually make sense that we practice this.

Shipping things on a freighter is pretty much damn near free or so Im told.

Sure SOL in the US maybe going down, but labor isnt an american market anymore, its a world market, and we're getting dragged down to the standards of China and India.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Aren't both of those things theoretically supposed to drive down prices? More abundance (whether from technology increases, trade, or large scale production) -> lower prices (and thus higher real wages/standard of living)

Jobs may be temporarily lost, sure, but that's just readjustment.

Driving prices down doesn't do much if if government erodes the value of the currency people hold onto in order to falsely promise a figurative free lunch.

 

[Zebo]

You have seen nothing yet wait until credit bubbles run their course completely that has been cushioning blow. business credit bubble crash, stock market bubble crash, credit card bubble crash. real estate bubble crash. We are in last throws with govt bubble. Soon that will blow and Americans will be completely fucked. Tapped and no one to help them and owing rich bond holders any fruits of their labor.

Americans went from owing total debt of 10Trillion when RR was president to 100 trillion today. That 90 trillion somewhat softened blow from outsourcing, insourceing with illegal labor, cutting wages where workers get less of what they produce, and so on so we could look somewhat prosperous while general decline was perpetrated by financial and business elites who u owe BTW for fucking you and extending you credit while they fucked u.

And don't tell me about the 10 savings bonds grandma bought u when you graduated hs or something. You're not the holder of all that debt but a small group of business and financial elites.

 

[Zebo]

Shipping things on a freighter is pretty much damn near free or so Im told.

Sure SOL in the US maybe going down, but labor isnt an american market anymore, its a world market, and we're getting dragged down to the standards of China and India.

it's about $1200 a container. before my dad sold his lighting company in Anaheim to Chinese thats what it cost at least back in 2003. My dad had 24 workers that was way more hence he sold out before he got competitioned out of business.

It should be way less than that and will be when they break backs of longshoremen union. You know some of those guys in Long Beach make 300K a year with OT? If you think that's sustainable think again. Ports are opening in baja Mexico and Mexican truckers will deliver goods.

 

[dmcowen674]

We've been trained to feel bad for wanting to take care of ourselves via something other than buying crap.

Want to retire? You are a taker.
Want to go on vacation? You are lazy and will be replaced.
Want a raise? You don't deserve it, the company isn't making enough money and people are losing their jobs.
Want a better job? Good luck with your healthcare.
Want to keep your pay and healthcare from being lowered by incompetent management? Fine we will just close down the business.

This sums it up well except management is not incompetent, they are just pocketing everything they can at the expense of the Company and it's employees.

 

[randomrogue]

I get the feeling that over the past 50 or so years, American purchasing power has steadily eroded. People are working more hours to buy lower quality goods. This is especially true for "core" goods like housing and food which haven't been made cheaper through technological innovations.

...all of this when purchasing power and standard of living should be INCREASING due to technology, large scale production, et. al. What gives?

For the most part goods in the USA are pretty cheap. The reason the standard of living is decreasing is because you're spending a lot more money on healthcare, education, daycare, housing, and debt.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

For the most part goods in the USA are pretty cheap. The reason the standard of living is decreasing is because you're spending a lot more money on healthcare, education, daycare, housing, and debt.

...the big items.

In other news...the Rich are doing fantastically well and better than ever!

 

[Doppel]

US still is among top in the world for standard of living.

Don't confuse absolute with relative. Relatively, Americans are getting poorer against the rich, but in absolute terms the country is still vastly wealthy and those in poverty live in better conditions than they did in the past.

I see an increasing irrelevance, economically, for America's lower classes. I think technology will continue to push out the bottom rungs and they'll end up as permanently kept classes, who are such poor economic producers that they never get a job and never need to, subsisting upon the scraps of welfare, food stamps, etc. Already millions live in this way and as a percentage of the population they will increase.

 

[boomerang]

In other news...the Rich are doing fantastically well and better than ever!

Amazingly, they spend no time on internet forums.

 

[IronWing]

Amazingly, they spend no time on internet forums.

They can count on yap dogs to defend their interests.

 

[Genx87]

I get the feeling that over the past 50 or so years, American purchasing power has steadily eroded. People are working more hours to buy lower quality goods. This is especially true for "core" goods like housing and food which haven't been made cheaper through technological innovations.

...all of this when purchasing power and standard of living should be INCREASING due to technology, large scale production, et. al. What gives?

Has it? I believe food prices have fallen and the cost of purchasing technology has also fallen. 30 years ago a color TV at 30 inches as the top end and that cost quite a bit. A computer was unheard of unless you had 2-3000 to drop. That is in 1980 dollars.

Housing had a bubble from the 1990s until 07-08. Housing is very affordable again.

What exactly do you think has become more expensive in the past 50 years?

 

[sm625]

The monetary system is specifically designed to enrich the top 1%, and to give an outsized amount of table scraps to the top 10% or so below that. This top 10% group gets just enough for them to support the system and keep it from failing. They are the ones who are benefitting from the Fed funny money flowing into stocks and bonds. The bottom 90% have either no savings, or they have savings but cannot risk them so they sit in some bank making 0.5% interest, which is nothing. They are actually paying the bank to hold their money, because every measure of inflation is higher than the 0.5% the bank pays in interest.

But the real meat of the scam is how the inflation is tucked away under the rug. Beef prices, bacon, milk, cheese, bread, all manner of foods up more than 3 times the reported inflation rates. Then there's things like healthcare and education expenses, which are up more than 5 times the rate of inflation. And then there's energy. Energy is in everything and it is rising much faster than the reported rates of inflation. The top 10% benefit from this, and thus they simply will not force inflation to be measured correctly. All it takes is for the bottom 90% to simply throw out anyone who refuses to pass a law that forces the BLS and the Fed to use correct inflation measurement methodologies. All the handouts and welfare is put out there to keep the masses from revolting in this way. And as long as it stays this way, the top 10% will continue to funnel Fed funny money into their accounts, thus debasing every other dollar currently in the system.

As bad as the poor in this country get screwed, it is really countries like Greece and Spain that really get screwed. They get absolutely none of the Fed funny money. So the dollars that they do hold are the ones that lose the most value. Thus they get poorer faster. That's another reason why the top 10% have no interest in changing any of this. But obviously this is blatant economic warfare, perpetrated by the Fed and the upper class who supports it. There will obviously be consequences. Instead of facing the dishonesty of this whole system, this upper class will collectively fawn and drool when the elite controlled media tells them they must bomb Iran or wtf ever it is they are going to do next. And they all get in line and do what they're told like good little frickin nazis.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Amazingly, they spend no time on internet forums.

Maybe they don't have much to gripe about? Alternatively, instead of fighting meaningless light sabre battles on the Internet, they can afford to hire lobbyists and/or donate to PACs to actually try to effectuate part of their ideological agenda?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

US still is among top in the world for standard of living.

Don't confuse absolute with relative. Relatively, Americans are getting poorer against the rich, but in absolute terms the country is still vastly wealthy and those in poverty live in better conditions than they did in the past.

The U.S. might still be one of the leading nations for standard of living, but that really isn't saying much. Imported electronic gadgets might be cheap, but the expensive items are very problematic--health care, housing, having an affordable car, the cost of higher education at a time of worsening employment prospects for the college educated, etc. Our nation has very serious economic problems.

One of the big issues is whether the rich are taking a disproportionate share of the value of the wealth created by labor.

 

[nehalem256]

So is anyone going to provide any evidence for this?

I remember my grandma telling me about how in the 1950s they had 2-party line telephones.

Now teenagers in poverty have smartphones.

Decline in living not found.