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The State of Things

T

theblackbox

Golden Member
i have been looking around at all the news sites, cnn, fox news, etc.. and everything in the news is related to the campaign, and how the democrats and the republicans are breaking laws, rules, etc.. The only other news i found was about the lady who moved into someones house while they were on vacation, and redid the house their liking, and it was only interesting because it happened in my town, and she was a customer of ours. Anyway, it got me to thinking.

What a sad state of affairs the US is in. Everything i read, and everything i see is regulated down to i hate bush, i hate kerry, republicans are stupid, democrats are stupid, the war is stupid, and on and on. The rest of the world must think us ignorant, with as much infighting as we are having. I hear excuses like it's good to know both sides, and healthy dbate is good, but this infighting is neither healthy or good. It's like our dignified society has stooped down to name calling and throwing mud. No matter who's fault it is, we are a joke.

So i look at the coming election, and look at he choices, and they make me weep. please understand where i come from on this. My wife and I are small business owners, we have a veterinary clinic in georgia and i work for a software company. I enlisted in the army in 1987 as a 96f (Psychological Operations Analyst) I have always held more conservative views because as a small business owner, i have always worked hard for my money, andlike to keep as much as i can. i'm punished in this country for being a small business owner, and being married every year by our government. (once again, i don't care who is to blame) With that in mind, here is what I see:

On one side, we have John Kerry and John Edwards. I had hoped the democrats would have offered somebody better then kerry as president. His senate record, like the record of most senators, says nothing of what he is or what he is worth, and edwards is a trial lawyer. Both of them rich, and both always talking about a divided america that favors the rich. It seems all they talk about is how bush did this and bush did that and we can do better. From what he has said, it sounds like in order to do better,it's gonna mean more taxes... More taxes mean small business owners don't have as much money to grow the small business. Less money means less headroom,means we won't hire as many people as we could, and help the economy. And i've listened to the debates and read, and it seems it's all talk, but no solution that would truly help small business owners or our country. I think if he was elected, we'd still be divided, and full of hatred, we'd just have to look at someone else to blame when things don't go well.

On the other side: Bush. Being ex military, i'm sure you'll think that immediatly i'll agree with what bush has done. not really.

I'm fine with our policy of hunting down terrorists, because if you don't have some type of plan, they'll certainly exploit you or your weakness. Iraq? who knows. I think 20 years from now if we have a good government in iraq of any form, it will be better for the world, right now it's like growing pains. Should we have fought there? maybe. maybe not. Bush probably jumped the gun and should have listened to the rest of nato, but it seems everyone, including the us had their own reasons for waht they did or did not do.
Bush has given us a couple of tax cuts and paltry credits. not realy much help, but a couple of dollars i guess.

4 more years of bush, though? I don't know if i want four more years of fingerpointing and a split government that seemsto thrive on hate and waitsfor the other to slip up.
Our political system kind of sucks right now. You thought 2000 was bad. From what i have read it looks like we might as well not even vote and just let the lawyers duke it out to see who becomes president.
All this anger everyone has against each other would be better spent working together to find a solution to our woes. Our government has gone from mediocre to just plain horrible, and thats not just the administration, thats everybody involved.

I can't honestly say i look foward to the election, because i feel no matter what, we lose, we being the people that live and work in the us, and enjoy living here.
Aren't you guys/gals afraid. All i see is everybody nitpicking, calling each other names, and calling each other idiots and liars. It's no wonder the terrorists hate us, sometimes i hate us too. We're a bunch of ninnies trying to run the world when we can't even run our own nation. Isn't anybody else sick and tired of the whole mess. We spend so much time calling each other names and treating each other like crap. Just read through some of the posts here with an open mind and you'll see what i mean. If we used half that energy to work together and do something positive, we could make change, instead of arguing over who did what or will do what.

All I have to look foward to is i'll probably have to give more money to the government, whoever wins will win because their lawyers were better and we won't know till next year for sure, and it will get worse.
Every other country will continue to sit and laugh at us, a country divided.

Last tidbit, somebody gave me the john stewart book: America. As i said, i'm not much a liberal, but read it because i just had major back sugery and needed something to do. For the most part i enjoyed it, and it had some good stuff. There was the occasional fingerpointing, they lied, it's their fault, but overall it was entertaining and educational.

Disclaimer: if i tended to ramble or made no to little sense, i apologize, i am on heavy dose of percocet 10/325 while i recover and try to be as coherent as possible.
 
Good post. You're probably right, all the more reason for Voters to shake up the system and remind Politicians who is in Control.
 
Good first post.

Welcome to ATP&N. But, you may need more medication to maintain your sanity if you hang here a lot. 🙂
 
I am glad to hear that you are disgusted with the political system. You are a dangerous person because you just might vote either way. We don't want your kind at the polls. The most committed to vote are the religious right and they are right so they should and will vote, no matter how filthy things become. The base will vote and all others be damned by intention. The election is only for the idiots and fools, please stay away. You don't belong in the pig pen with us political folk. And we know how to turn you off and away. It's not a pig pen by accident, my friend.
 
I am glad to hear that you are disgusted with the political system.
Click to expand...

not by the system itself, per se, but by the people that make the system. i think the media plays a big part by over exposing and overeducting on both sides. it makes me wonder what the public opinion would have been in ww2 if d-day had the same type of exposure vietnam, the gulf war and all are getting now. Would the public have seen normandy as a great feat or as a horrible mistake if we had constant casualty counts and the news letting us know how many civilians were killed when we invaded. It's as if when the media sensationalizes a story, it becomes gospel to the majority of people, true or not.
it's as if it is a case of our checks and balances becoming too unwieldy, and perhaps a tool instead or a method of communication.

we see death in combat now as a daily number, not after the fact or on a yearly basis. I don't have the numbers but wonder how many soldiers died in vietnam in any one year, or korea, or even in ww2. I wonder how the total losses just at normandy in 2 days compare to the war in iraq, and how our perspective has changed as technology has changed us.

it's good to have all the information necessary, and to have multiple outlets, but the info we get these days always has a slant, and we become jaded.

I know i sound naive, and reading back it seems that to be the case, but i have just tired of the last two weeks, with my laptop going from website to website and seeing the same thing everywhere i go. In 25 years, i've never seen people so divided and full of hate. I have never seen people sit and talk about how much they hate a certain politician, not the ploicies of the politician, but the actual person, making attacks on the person. it amazes me to see how low we have become.

the sad thing is, i can't go out anywhere on the internet and read any news, because it's the same thing day after day. It's embarrasing and i'm ashamed of what we have become.
 
Technology is both our biggest asset and our biggest weakness. It leads us to division, as you say, yet there is also good. Unfortunately, you can't have the good without the evil. So, we need to analyze whether the good or the evil is greater. If the evil is greater, maybe we should just all become Amish.
 
A friend cancelled his newpaper a couple weeks ago... he said he's rather be ignorant and happy. Can't blame him I guess, things can be a little discouraging. This country has been through a lot though... we'll be alright ( ever the optimist 🙂 )
 
Originally posted by: theblackbox
I am glad to hear that you are disgusted with the political system.
Click to expand...

not by the system itself, per se, but by the people that make the system. i think the media plays a big part by over exposing and overeducting on both sides. it makes me wonder what the public opinion would have been in ww2 if d-day had the same type of exposure vietnam, the gulf war and all are getting now. Would the public have seen normandy as a great feat or as a horrible mistake if we had constant casualty counts and the news letting us know how many civilians were killed when we invaded. It's as if when the media sensationalizes a story, it becomes gospel to the majority of people, true or not.
it's as if it is a case of our checks and balances becoming too unwieldy, and perhaps a tool instead or a method of communication.

we see death in combat now as a daily number, not after the fact or on a yearly basis. I don't have the numbers but wonder how many soldiers died in vietnam in any one year, or korea, or even in ww2. I wonder how the total losses just at normandy in 2 days compare to the war in iraq, and how our perspective has changed as technology has changed us.

it's good to have all the information necessary, and to have multiple outlets, but the info we get these days always has a slant, and we become jaded.

I know i sound naive, and reading back it seems that to be the case, but i have just tired of the last two weeks, with my laptop going from website to website and seeing the same thing everywhere i go. In 25 years, i've never seen people so divided and full of hate. I have never seen people sit and talk about how much they hate a certain politician, not the ploicies of the politician, but the actual person, making attacks on the person. it amazes me to see how low we have become.

the sad thing is, i can't go out anywhere on the internet and read any news, because it's the same thing day after day. It's embarrasing and i'm ashamed of what we have become.
Click to expand...

Negative campaigning drives all voters away from the polls except the most committed and that is the reason for and the purpose of negative campaigns. As a republican leaning small business man you may have missed the hate that was thrown at Clinton. But what goes around comes around.
 
I am all for splitting the parties into like 5. Equally represented.

This way we have more issues to choose from, this whole black and white thing is dangerous for the psyche of USA.
Here's a few ideas I came up with:

Green When you think one aspect of the goverment needs to focus on long term investments in our enviroment.

Conservative When you think policies have gone off track and you want to see the old-school way rolled back.

Democrat/Reform When you see reform/changes needs to be made in an area.

Socialist When workers are not getting good enough pay or benefits . Time to vote for these guys to help us when our capitalist economy is not quite spreading all the wealth 😉

Libertarian/Federalist (I may be off CK may straighten that one out for me) Our rights are being withheld for whatever reasons these would be your guys also for sovernity issues when it comes to our rights and goods etc.

What parties would you like to see represented if congress had to keep a balance for Democracys sake?
Voting sounds fun to me in this way and I'd be more interested in more elections depending on how you think about that office's performance.
Choices are good and can't but make us all more informed and diverse in our ideas.
 
no, i have sat and watched as our system degraded, and i think it started before clinton, but it certainly welled up during his tenure.

even though i was not a big fan of clintons, i watched as they put together what might as well have been lynch mobs headed by starr and others to derail the system. It's just it has progressively gotten worse, and i think we spend all of our time fueling the flames.

when i sit and read through the news or listen to people discussing (haha) the state of things, i feel like i am some greater being looking done at the world and seeing how petty some of the things they say and accuse each other of are. During the debates, i sat there in awe thinking am i really this smart that i hear the crap they spew, and realize they sound like little kids in a playground that can't get along, and that the rest of the world has just gone dumb, believing what these people say. Then i realize that can't be it, cause i'm no good with math so the whole supergenius thing is out the window.

I just hope that after this election, if that is what it is to be called, things change. I hope somebody sits and looks at the video, the news, the things they are saying and realizes what an ass they have been, and says, we need to work this out because america is/was a great country, and needs to be that again.

or, maybe either choice is no choice and we'll get status quo, except for one of the two groups is going to sit around with a smug look on their face going i told you so, and it won't mean a dam thing.



 
About Steeplerots post: It seems to run counter to our instincts, but the bipolar nature of our political system is actually very stable. The more variables there are, the more unstable things get... the factions tend to ally, then switch, then switch again, and it gets pretty messy. Personally, I like our two party system... it keeps things fairly moderate.
 
You would have to have checks and balances and this is never perfect but figuring out how to give us more freedoms in choice is bettering America IMO
Anyhow if there was a radical change in our election process like that then you might as well give us the "none of the above" option as well
so if the bastards are corrupt or slime then lets see the next canidate for his party heh. Sooner or later they will get honest if they keep getting the snub.
 
Originally posted by: theblackbox
i have been looking around at all the news sites, cnn, fox news, etc.. and everything in the news is related to the campaign, and how the democrats and the republicans are breaking laws, rules, etc.. The only other news i found was about the lady who moved into someones house while they were on vacation, and redid the house their liking, and it was only interesting because it happened in my town, and she was a customer of ours. Anyway, it got me to thinking.

What a sad state of affairs the US is in. Everything i read, and everything i see is regulated down to i hate bush, i hate kerry, republicans are stupid, democrats are stupid, the war is stupid, and on and on. The rest of the world must think us ignorant, with as much infighting as we are having. I hear excuses like it's good to know both sides, and healthy dbate is good, but this infighting is neither healthy or good. It's like our dignified society has stooped down to name calling and throwing mud. No matter who's fault it is, we are a joke.

So i look at the coming election, and look at he choices, and they make me weep. please understand where i come from on this. My wife and I are small business owners, we have a veterinary clinic in georgia and i work for a software company. I enlisted in the army in 1987 as a 96f (Psychological Operations Analyst) I have always held more conservative views because as a small business owner, i have always worked hard for my money, andlike to keep as much as i can. i'm punished in this country for being a small business owner, and being married every year by our government. (once again, i don't care who is to blame) With that in mind, here is what I see:

On one side, we have John Kerry and John Edwards. I had hoped the democrats would have offered somebody better then kerry as president. His senate record, like the record of most senators, says nothing of what he is or what he is worth, and edwards is a trial lawyer. Both of them rich, and both always talking about a divided america that favors the rich. It seems all they talk about is how bush did this and bush did that and we can do better. From what he has said, it sounds like in order to do better,it's gonna mean more taxes... More taxes mean small business owners don't have as much money to grow the small business. Less money means less headroom,means we won't hire as many people as we could, and help the economy. And i've listened to the debates and read, and it seems it's all talk, but no solution that would truly help small business owners or our country. I think if he was elected, we'd still be divided, and full of hatred, we'd just have to look at someone else to blame when things don't go well.

On the other side: Bush. Being ex military, i'm sure you'll think that immediatly i'll agree with what bush has done. not really.

I'm fine with our policy of hunting down terrorists, because if you don't have some type of plan, they'll certainly exploit you or your weakness. Iraq? who knows. I think 20 years from now if we have a good government in iraq of any form, it will be better for the world, right now it's like growing pains. Should we have fought there? maybe. maybe not. Bush probably jumped the gun and should have listened to the rest of nato, but it seems everyone, including the us had their own reasons for waht they did or did not do.
Bush has given us a couple of tax cuts and paltry credits. not realy much help, but a couple of dollars i guess.

4 more years of bush, though? I don't know if i want four more years of fingerpointing and a split government that seemsto thrive on hate and waitsfor the other to slip up.
Our political system kind of sucks right now. You thought 2000 was bad. From what i have read it looks like we might as well not even vote and just let the lawyers duke it out to see who becomes president.
All this anger everyone has against each other would be better spent working together to find a solution to our woes. Our government has gone from mediocre to just plain horrible, and thats not just the administration, thats everybody involved.

I can't honestly say i look foward to the election, because i feel no matter what, we lose, we being the people that live and work in the us, and enjoy living here.
Aren't you guys/gals afraid. All i see is everybody nitpicking, calling each other names, and calling each other idiots and liars. It's no wonder the terrorists hate us, sometimes i hate us too. We're a bunch of ninnies trying to run the world when we can't even run our own nation. Isn't anybody else sick and tired of the whole mess. We spend so much time calling each other names and treating each other like crap. Just read through some of the posts here with an open mind and you'll see what i mean. If we used half that energy to work together and do something positive, we could make change, instead of arguing over who did what or will do what.

All I have to look foward to is i'll probably have to give more money to the government, whoever wins will win because their lawyers were better and we won't know till next year for sure, and it will get worse.
Every other country will continue to sit and laugh at us, a country divided.

Last tidbit, somebody gave me the john stewart book: America. As i said, i'm not much a liberal, but read it because i just had major back sugery and needed something to do. For the most part i enjoyed it, and it had some good stuff. There was the occasional fingerpointing, they lied, it's their fault, but overall it was entertaining and educational.

Disclaimer: if i tended to ramble or made no to little sense, i apologize, i am on heavy dose of percocet 10/325 while i recover and try to be as coherent as possible.
Click to expand...

Welcome to 2004. Check your sanity at the door!

I have one quote to sum up your post: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of our patriots"
 
Originally posted by: blahblah99
Originally posted by: theblackbox
i have been looking around at all the news sites, cnn, fox news, etc.. and everything in the news is related to the campaign, and how the democrats and the republicans are breaking laws, rules, etc.. The only other news i found was about the lady who moved into someones house while they were on vacation, and redid the house their liking, and it was only interesting because it happened in my town, and she was a customer of ours. Anyway, it got me to thinking.

What a sad state of affairs the US is in. Everything i read, and everything i see is regulated down to i hate bush, i hate kerry, republicans are stupid, democrats are stupid, the war is stupid, and on and on. The rest of the world must think us ignorant, with as much infighting as we are having. I hear excuses like it's good to know both sides, and healthy dbate is good, but this infighting is neither healthy or good. It's like our dignified society has stooped down to name calling and throwing mud. No matter who's fault it is, we are a joke.

So i look at the coming election, and look at he choices, and they make me weep. please understand where i come from on this. My wife and I are small business owners, we have a veterinary clinic in georgia and i work for a software company. I enlisted in the army in 1987 as a 96f (Psychological Operations Analyst) I have always held more conservative views because as a small business owner, i have always worked hard for my money, andlike to keep as much as i can. i'm punished in this country for being a small business owner, and being married every year by our government. (once again, i don't care who is to blame) With that in mind, here is what I see:

On one side, we have John Kerry and John Edwards. I had hoped the democrats would have offered somebody better then kerry as president. His senate record, like the record of most senators, says nothing of what he is or what he is worth, and edwards is a trial lawyer. Both of them rich, and both always talking about a divided america that favors the rich. It seems all they talk about is how bush did this and bush did that and we can do better. From what he has said, it sounds like in order to do better,it's gonna mean more taxes... More taxes mean small business owners don't have as much money to grow the small business. Less money means less headroom,means we won't hire as many people as we could, and help the economy. And i've listened to the debates and read, and it seems it's all talk, but no solution that would truly help small business owners or our country. I think if he was elected, we'd still be divided, and full of hatred, we'd just have to look at someone else to blame when things don't go well.

On the other side: Bush. Being ex military, i'm sure you'll think that immediatly i'll agree with what bush has done. not really.

I'm fine with our policy of hunting down terrorists, because if you don't have some type of plan, they'll certainly exploit you or your weakness. Iraq? who knows. I think 20 years from now if we have a good government in iraq of any form, it will be better for the world, right now it's like growing pains. Should we have fought there? maybe. maybe not. Bush probably jumped the gun and should have listened to the rest of nato, but it seems everyone, including the us had their own reasons for waht they did or did not do.
Bush has given us a couple of tax cuts and paltry credits. not realy much help, but a couple of dollars i guess.

4 more years of bush, though? I don't know if i want four more years of fingerpointing and a split government that seemsto thrive on hate and waitsfor the other to slip up.
Our political system kind of sucks right now. You thought 2000 was bad. From what i have read it looks like we might as well not even vote and just let the lawyers duke it out to see who becomes president.
All this anger everyone has against each other would be better spent working together to find a solution to our woes. Our government has gone from mediocre to just plain horrible, and thats not just the administration, thats everybody involved.

I can't honestly say i look foward to the election, because i feel no matter what, we lose, we being the people that live and work in the us, and enjoy living here.
Aren't you guys/gals afraid. All i see is everybody nitpicking, calling each other names, and calling each other idiots and liars. It's no wonder the terrorists hate us, sometimes i hate us too. We're a bunch of ninnies trying to run the world when we can't even run our own nation. Isn't anybody else sick and tired of the whole mess. We spend so much time calling each other names and treating each other like crap. Just read through some of the posts here with an open mind and you'll see what i mean. If we used half that energy to work together and do something positive, we could make change, instead of arguing over who did what or will do what.

All I have to look foward to is i'll probably have to give more money to the government, whoever wins will win because their lawyers were better and we won't know till next year for sure, and it will get worse.
Every other country will continue to sit and laugh at us, a country divided.

Last tidbit, somebody gave me the john stewart book: America. As i said, i'm not much a liberal, but read it because i just had major back sugery and needed something to do. For the most part i enjoyed it, and it had some good stuff. There was the occasional fingerpointing, they lied, it's their fault, but overall it was entertaining and educational.

Disclaimer: if i tended to ramble or made no to little sense, i apologize, i am on heavy dose of percocet 10/325 while i recover and try to be as coherent as possible.
Click to expand...

Welcome to 2004. Check your sanity at the door!

I have one quote to sum up your post: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of our patriots"
Click to expand...

Thomas Jefferson, eh? 😉
 
No, it should be:

The Tree of Liberty is now the Bush of Baloney.

Uh, if you're only on percocet you're the least medicated person here.

-Robert
 
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