Or those people with enough disposable income to blow tons of money all the time. I think that's the crowd they're advertising to. It's a very small crowd
Or those people with enough disposable income to blow tons of money all the time. I think that's the crowd they're advertising to. It's a very small crowd
Originally posted by: BD2003
Originally posted by: kb3edk
What's the state of PC gaming?
Well, if you're a Linux or Mac user it's pretty sorry right now. But as a Windows gamer I'm pretty happy where the market's at. Samduhman up near the top of the thread mentions Xbox 360, and how it's stealing away a large portion of the Windows gamer user base. Well that's the "glass half empty" take on the situation.
The "glass half full" opposite of it is that for every gamer we lose to 360 due to upgrade/bug fatigue, we are probably gaining another gamer who has "outgrown" his/her console and is moving to Windows for greater performance and flexibility. Rather than ridicule my 360-playing friends I tell them how much I like 360 games like BioShock, Oblivion, and Gears Of War and then point out to them how I think each of these games is better on Windows than 360, and that's why I game on a PC. You can at least HAVE this conversation with a 360 gamer, unlike other consoles out there. Well, unless you're trying to sell a Wii gamer on the merits of Peggle or something
Are those games really *better* though? Theres plenty of ways one could argue just the opposite. I dont disagree that there are certain aspects in which they are superior, but if I'm being perfectly honest, I find the concept of "graduating" from console to PC a bit ridiculous.
Top PC Games of 2007:
1. PC World Of Warcraft: Burning Crusade Expansion Pack*, Vivendi 2.25mm
2. PC World Of Warcraft, Vivendi 914K
3. PC The Sims 2 Seasons Expansion Pack, Electronic Arts 433K
4. PC Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare*, Activision 383K
5. PC Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars*, Electronic Arts 343K
6. PC Sim City 4 Deluxe, Electronic Arts 284K
7. PC The Sims 2, Electronic Arts 281K
8. PC The Sims 2, Bon Voyage Expansion Pack Electronic Arts 271K
9. PC MS Age Of Empires III, Microsoft 259K
10. PC The Sims 2 Pets Expansion Pack, Electronic Arts 236K
The glass isnt half full, its almost empty. The gamers ARE leaving. Whether or not you believe the PC or Console is superior, PC gaming is a niche composed of WoW and Sims players. Both of which are great games for sure, but hardly the kind of hardcore games that going to get console gamers to "move up" to the PC.
There comes a point in every console cycle about 2-3 years in, where the PC graphics have evolved to the point that theyre so superior (at least on the top end), that the consoles begin to look really weak, and all the "PC gaming is dead" talk really goes away. I dont see that happening nearly as much this time around, because it seems like rather than the consoles getting second hand PC ports of games like Doom 3 and HL2, the PCs are the ones getting the second hand ports.
Let me put it this way: I want to believe that the PC is superior...I'd love the option to throw more money at gaming and get a better experience out of it. But its just not the simple anymore IMO.
That's not quite accurate though. Let's take a look at some more sources
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/n...ling-PC-Game-of-August
PC sales in August-
1) Bioshock - 2K Games
2) World Of Warcraft: Burning Crusade Expansion Pack - Vivendi
3) World Of Warcraft - Vivendi
4) Guild Wars Eye Of The North Expansion Pack - NCsoft
5) Civilization IV: Beyond The Sword Expansion Pack - 2K Games
6) The Sims 2 Deluxe - Electronic Arts
7) Age Of Empires III - Microsoft
8) Madden NFL 2008 - Electronic Arts
9) Warcraft III Battle Chest - Vivendi
10) Microsoft Flight Simulator X Deluxe - Microsoft
Console sales in august -
1) Madden NFL 08 - Xbox 360 - Electronic Arts
2) Madden NFL 08 - Playstation 2 - Electronic Arts
3) BioShock - Xbox 360 - 2K Games
4) Madden NFL 08 - Playstation 3 - Electronic Arts
5) Play With Remote - Wii - Nintendo of America
6) Guitar Hero 2 With Guitar - Playstation 2 - Red Octane
7) Metroid Prime 3: Corruption - Wii - Nintendo of America
8) Guitar Hero 2 With Guitar - Xbox 360 - Red Octane
9) Mario Strikers: Charged - Wii - Nintendo of America
10) Mario Party 8 - Wii - Nintendo of America
Let's take a look at your argument again. Hmm, it appears to me that Wow and The Sims only take up 2 slots on the PC side. In fact, The PC list has a pretty wide range of different games - we have Bioshock beating the WoW players (imagine that), Age of Empires, some NFL, WC3 (RTS), a flight sim, the Civ 4 expansion, etc.
Looking at the console sales, it appears that console gaming is a niche made of sports and party games. For console gaming, the glass isn't half full, it's nearly empty!
You see, it's easy to take a set of data and manipulate it to say whatever you want.
Let's take a look at January
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/n...S-PC-Games-Sales-Chart
1) Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare - Activision
2) World Of Warcraft: Battle Chest - Vivendi
3) World Of Warcraft: Burning Crusade Expansion Pack - Vivendi
4) World Of Warcraft - Vivendi
5) Crysis - Electronic Arts
6) The Orange Box - Electronic Arts
7) The Sims 2 Deluxe - Electronic Arts
8) Pirates Of The Burning Sea - Sony Online Entertainment
9) Warcraft III Battle Chest - Vivendi
10) Unreal Tournament 3 - Midway
11) SimCity Societies - Electronic Arts
12) The Witcher - Atari
13) Hellgate: London - Electronic Arts
14) The Sims 2 Bon Voyage Expansion Pack - Electronic Arts
15) Microsoft Flight Simulator X Deluxe - Microsoft
16) SimCity 4 Deluxe - Electronic Arts
17) World In Conflict - Vivendi
18) The Sims Complete Collection - Electronic Arts
19) Guitar Hero III: Legends Of Rock with Guitar - Aspyr Media
20) Civilization IV: Gold Edition - 2K Games
Once again, it looks like your "niche" comment doesn't have any bearing in reality. I see a pretty wide variety of games on there. Only a few spots are taken by WoW or the Sims; the majority of the spots are taken by various other games.
Yeah, but consider that only the most hardcore of the hardcore PC enthusiasts are buying the $600 "topend" video cards. That comment seems like it doesn't even belong in your post. Anyone with half a brain realizes that the people who buy the $600 cards are just trying to extend their e-penis (you can easily build a $400 rig that plays all of the modern games at modest resolution, no worse than the consoles). I guess that means you have less than half a brain?
Also, FYI, Sins of a Solar Empire topped the sales charts and has NO piracy protection. According to the SOSE post, the game posted 2nd on NPD's list, and that list does not include Walmart sales, which is where a majority of Sins of a Solar Empire copies were sold.
I swear, it doesn't make any sense. Why are all of these console people attacking the PC? No one's forcing you to buy a PC. These people claiming that one form of gaming is inherently better than another (when they're essentially equal) are assholes and should go die in a ditch.
I just wanted to say thank you for this post. I'd say you totally hit the nail on the head with "real gamers don't subscribe to the 'PC vs Console' bullshit." The PC is definitely my primary gaming platform, but if I had the money at this time, I would own a PS3 and a 360 (right now I just have a PS2 and Wii). I love video games, and I do not see that dying any time soon. I will enjoy what games I can get my hands on regardless of platform. Each console has its drawbacks just like PCs have their own drawbacks. Will PC gaming see a decline in the coming years? Sure, it's entirely possible. I think it's just as likely that a few years after a decline, PC gaming will start rising again. Consoles go through a cycle, PC gaming goes through a cycle.
I agree with both of you. All of the Console vs PC crap is nonsense. It's all about the games and the money. I sometimes wonder how much all of the debate would change if a modest gaming PC, 360, PS3, and Wii only cost $50 each. The arguments that most people make concerning PC vs Consoles revolve much more heavily around money than they might realize. If they were all cheap enough so that just about every gamer's home had them all then there would be nothing to debate except the quality of the games and maybe XBL vs PC online play. There are other topics beyond that too, but most of them are only worth nickels and dimes.
Krakn3Dfx
Platinum Member
- Sep 29, 2000
- 2,969
- 1
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I totally agree that PC gaming is diminishing in popularity as consoles become more advanced and accessible in the short term. However...
...as consoles have become more advanced and accessible, you can already see the cracks in the "100% fullproof and compatible" mystique that consoles have always had start forming. As soon as consoles started going online and developers started having the ability to patch console titles like SSBB, R6V2, Motorstorm, CoD4, Assassin's Creed, etc., you see a lot of those titles coming out with major problems out of the box, whether it be online play, crashing, or level design speed issues.
Also, you see the number of defective consoles increasing exponentially as you see hardware makers trying to squeeze the power of a cutting edge PC into a box that is small and attractive enough for most people to consider adding to their home entertainment center. Forget the XBox 360, which is the most unreliable and flaky console system we've seen to date, there are quite a few PS3 and Wii systems going belly up due to heating and quality control issues as well.
I've seen 9 Wiis die or have to be sent back to Nintendo due to problems with SSBB since it's the first Wii title use a DL disc. Seriously? We're well over 10 years since the launch of the original DVD player, and you still have issues with your console reading dual layer technology? Pretty disgusting IMO.
And the PS3's BD drive assembly has been blowing out and having to be replaced by Sony on a fair number of 40GB and 80GB PS3s, likely due to the so-called "cuts" in production costs that Sony likes to boast about. They'll never say it, of course not, but these problems didn't plague the original 20GB and 60GB units as much as the newer SKUs, so it makes you wonder.
This hasn't just been an issue with current gen consoles though, the PS1 and PS2 lines had laser calibration issues, serious ones, that required owners to either have costly repairs made to them, or encouraged them to just go out and buy a whole new unit to replace the defective one. Sony talks about the PS2 shipping 120 million units worldwide, but how many of those are just replacements for the ones that crapped out? Again, I'm sure we'll never have solid answers on that.
And then you have the cost issue, console gamers claiming PC gaming is too expensive to justify and PC gamers disputing it. Here's hard facts: It's going to be awhile before you can load MS Office on your Xbox 360 or even browse the web on it. The PS3 has a web browser, but it's a framework of a PC browser like Firefox or Explorer at best, and is severely hindered by codec and memory issues. The same problems plague the web browser on the Wii. It's usable, about as usable as those old WebTV units that people used and abandoned quickly in favor of getting a real PC. My point is, you're going to have a PC regardless, so that's money spent, there's a premium for owning a PC period. It's not like people are buying a console system and just not having a computer in the house anymore. Of course they're still running at least one PC in their house, and if you're going to have a PC, you might as well have one that can be upgraded well enough to play games. Yes, you may need to buy a new PC in 3-5 years. How is that any different than a console?
Not to mention, these days, to get the most out of a current gen console, you really need a hi-definition TV. Those aren't cheap. Show me a decent sized 1080 based LCD to play console games on that is the same price as a $250 22" PC monitor, and hell, I'll buy one.
Finally, PC gaming is, most of the time, about a certain level of control in-game that you cannot reach with a console system. Yes, at some point from what I've been hearing since the PS1, you'll be able to hook up a keyboard and a mouse to your PS3 or XBox 360 and a lot of the games will come with the option to use them. Haven't seen it, haven't seen any real indication that it's coming either. You can hook a keyboard and mouse to the PS3, but it'll be BT, and as an owner of a PS3, I can tell you, when the signal on my sixxaxis drops for a second in Motorstorm, which it does more than I'd like, it's annoys the shit out of me. If the same thing happened in a ranked UT3 match on the PS3 using a BT keyboard and mouse, I would be livid.
I think PC gaming is in a perceived slump now, due in a large part to the vagueness of digital distribution and because we, as consumers, who have spent years looking at NPDs to tell us what we want to know, don't know the real story when it comes to sales on Steam or totallygames.net (soon to be Impulse) or any of the other online distribution companies. Brad Wardell from Stardock Games says that they've made more money on the digital distribution of Sins of a Solar Empire than on retail sales, and this is a game that was #1 in sales at WalMart the month it came out, and still continues to sell well in the retail channels. If a game like Sins, which is decidedly more complicated and highbrow than most gamers would likely be, can sell enough to make a nice profit, even counting piracy numbers, I think it's safe to say any good PC game that is developed with the expectation that it will only sell a set number of copies, which is a known quantity on the PC platform, can do the same. The problem we see as PC gamers is that companies like EA, Activision, and other big name dev houses don't see the long term strategy, they're very much about short term gains. 5 or 10 years ago, if a game sold 300,000 copies on the PC, that was considered a very respectable number by anyone's estimation, and it encouraged more development on the platform. Now that same number is suddenly a failure in the eyes of the industry. It's been a pretty startling change in the economics of game development, and because of the incorrect method developers and publishers use to look at dev costs vs. sales potential, it hurts PC gamers and their cause a lot.
I personally am a PC gamer, and I also own a PS3, a 360, and a Wii. I think there's room in the market for all 4 platforms to thrive. PC gaming isn't dying, and it won't die. Unfortunately, neither will the need to speculate that it's going to.
...as consoles have become more advanced and accessible, you can already see the cracks in the "100% fullproof and compatible" mystique that consoles have always had start forming. As soon as consoles started going online and developers started having the ability to patch console titles like SSBB, R6V2, Motorstorm, CoD4, Assassin's Creed, etc., you see a lot of those titles coming out with major problems out of the box, whether it be online play, crashing, or level design speed issues.
Also, you see the number of defective consoles increasing exponentially as you see hardware makers trying to squeeze the power of a cutting edge PC into a box that is small and attractive enough for most people to consider adding to their home entertainment center. Forget the XBox 360, which is the most unreliable and flaky console system we've seen to date, there are quite a few PS3 and Wii systems going belly up due to heating and quality control issues as well.
I've seen 9 Wiis die or have to be sent back to Nintendo due to problems with SSBB since it's the first Wii title use a DL disc. Seriously? We're well over 10 years since the launch of the original DVD player, and you still have issues with your console reading dual layer technology? Pretty disgusting IMO.
And the PS3's BD drive assembly has been blowing out and having to be replaced by Sony on a fair number of 40GB and 80GB PS3s, likely due to the so-called "cuts" in production costs that Sony likes to boast about. They'll never say it, of course not, but these problems didn't plague the original 20GB and 60GB units as much as the newer SKUs, so it makes you wonder.
This hasn't just been an issue with current gen consoles though, the PS1 and PS2 lines had laser calibration issues, serious ones, that required owners to either have costly repairs made to them, or encouraged them to just go out and buy a whole new unit to replace the defective one. Sony talks about the PS2 shipping 120 million units worldwide, but how many of those are just replacements for the ones that crapped out? Again, I'm sure we'll never have solid answers on that.
And then you have the cost issue, console gamers claiming PC gaming is too expensive to justify and PC gamers disputing it. Here's hard facts: It's going to be awhile before you can load MS Office on your Xbox 360 or even browse the web on it. The PS3 has a web browser, but it's a framework of a PC browser like Firefox or Explorer at best, and is severely hindered by codec and memory issues. The same problems plague the web browser on the Wii. It's usable, about as usable as those old WebTV units that people used and abandoned quickly in favor of getting a real PC. My point is, you're going to have a PC regardless, so that's money spent, there's a premium for owning a PC period. It's not like people are buying a console system and just not having a computer in the house anymore. Of course they're still running at least one PC in their house, and if you're going to have a PC, you might as well have one that can be upgraded well enough to play games. Yes, you may need to buy a new PC in 3-5 years. How is that any different than a console?
Not to mention, these days, to get the most out of a current gen console, you really need a hi-definition TV. Those aren't cheap. Show me a decent sized 1080 based LCD to play console games on that is the same price as a $250 22" PC monitor, and hell, I'll buy one.
Finally, PC gaming is, most of the time, about a certain level of control in-game that you cannot reach with a console system. Yes, at some point from what I've been hearing since the PS1, you'll be able to hook up a keyboard and a mouse to your PS3 or XBox 360 and a lot of the games will come with the option to use them. Haven't seen it, haven't seen any real indication that it's coming either. You can hook a keyboard and mouse to the PS3, but it'll be BT, and as an owner of a PS3, I can tell you, when the signal on my sixxaxis drops for a second in Motorstorm, which it does more than I'd like, it's annoys the shit out of me. If the same thing happened in a ranked UT3 match on the PS3 using a BT keyboard and mouse, I would be livid.
I think PC gaming is in a perceived slump now, due in a large part to the vagueness of digital distribution and because we, as consumers, who have spent years looking at NPDs to tell us what we want to know, don't know the real story when it comes to sales on Steam or totallygames.net (soon to be Impulse) or any of the other online distribution companies. Brad Wardell from Stardock Games says that they've made more money on the digital distribution of Sins of a Solar Empire than on retail sales, and this is a game that was #1 in sales at WalMart the month it came out, and still continues to sell well in the retail channels. If a game like Sins, which is decidedly more complicated and highbrow than most gamers would likely be, can sell enough to make a nice profit, even counting piracy numbers, I think it's safe to say any good PC game that is developed with the expectation that it will only sell a set number of copies, which is a known quantity on the PC platform, can do the same. The problem we see as PC gamers is that companies like EA, Activision, and other big name dev houses don't see the long term strategy, they're very much about short term gains. 5 or 10 years ago, if a game sold 300,000 copies on the PC, that was considered a very respectable number by anyone's estimation, and it encouraged more development on the platform. Now that same number is suddenly a failure in the eyes of the industry. It's been a pretty startling change in the economics of game development, and because of the incorrect method developers and publishers use to look at dev costs vs. sales potential, it hurts PC gamers and their cause a lot.
I personally am a PC gamer, and I also own a PS3, a 360, and a Wii. I think there's room in the market for all 4 platforms to thrive. PC gaming isn't dying, and it won't die. Unfortunately, neither will the need to speculate that it's going to.
Keep in mind that PC parts also break all of the time and people deal with software issues very regularly. I have spent far more time and money solving problems with PC parts breaking and software problems than I have had issues with consoles.
Then there is security to consider which is much more of an issue with PCs than consoles. A lot of people are not aware that there is great security software for free and end up buying licenses to try and solve those issues. Then you got the masses of people who really are not very PC savvy when it comes to security in general so they don't protect themselves very well. The amount of hours and money they spend to maintain and fix their those machines thanks to viruses, spyware, etc adds up to quite a bit.
When it comes to the cost of HDTVs, the same argument that people make about how PCs can be used for many things beyond gaming applies here as well. A lot of people want to buy an HDTV even if they are not a gamer for these reasons.
Lastly, while the flexibility of playing a game on the PC is something that many of us hardcore gamers really appreciate, most people who buy PC games really don't use many of those features because they either don't care to spend the time to explore them or don't know that things such as "mods" even exist. They just want to play the game as is.
Don't get me wrong. While it may sound like I am trying to support consoles here and put down PCs that really is not the case. I am just tossing out information that is important to consider in addition to your argument.
If there is one thing that is true about most of the PC vs console arguments in this forum, it is that they often forget how much the gamer consumer market consists of very casual people who are not tech savvy. They just want to buy a fun game and play it. They don't care much about anything else as long as it is a simple plug and play procedure to do so and it is cheap enough and simple to obtain. No matter how you slice it, consoles fit that bill much more the PCs do according to the opinions of the majority of the market. Casuals make up so much of the market these days that their money has become powerful enough to overrule many publishing and development decisions when it comes to video games. The proof is in the numbers.
Krakn3Dfx
Platinum Member
- Sep 29, 2000
- 2,969
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As far as the reliability issue, I was just pointing out that the gap between PC issues and console issues seems to be narrowing the more complicated the console technology becomes. Also, with a PC, you have the option or trying to fix the problem yourself or having someone you know who is more PC literate to fix it. With a console 9 times out of 10, your own option is to box it up and ship it back to the company for repairs.
I've owned a master system, megadrive, ps, n64, 360 and the name number of PC's for gaming. I've never understood "PC vs console", or console x vs y (though at least the latter is stirred up by the industry to cement consumer 'loyalty').
I would say however that I've played substantially more good games on the various consoles than on the PC. Most of the very best games have been on the PC, if forced to choose I'd say I'm a PC rather than console gamer. But lately it's been too hard to find good games on the PC, and many of what there are are also on console a year earlier. I went out and bought the 360 just to get into the back catalogue, there just isn't enough good games on the PC and it's been getting worse.
I had some cash and when deciding between upgrading the PC or buying a console, I looked at the games I wanted to play and the console had more, and was lined up for even more.
not sure what's been touched on since there' s so much there but here's my rant
. i think one of the biggest reasons is the lack of multilayer games, and by that i mean off line. i have a wii for the casual family gaming and a semi beastly pc that i use for my fps and more adult games. it looks and plays just as well as a 360 or ps3 , but i can't play games with someone sitting in the room. most pcs being sold now are at least dual core with decent video cards, and more people than ever are running them as htpcs.htpc= not being confined to a 19"lcd . i couldn't imagine how great it would be to connect 2 blue tooth controllers to my system and play cod4 or crysis in coop mode on my 50"plasma. That leads me to the second reason i think pc gamin is on the decline. interfaces dual analog is more comfy than having a bulky wireless kb and mouse. i enjoy the countless assignable buttons butt it think a controller feels more natural. i'm off to upgrade my video card...
. i think one of the biggest reasons is the lack of multilayer games, and by that i mean off line. i have a wii for the casual family gaming and a semi beastly pc that i use for my fps and more adult games. it looks and plays just as well as a 360 or ps3 , but i can't play games with someone sitting in the room. most pcs being sold now are at least dual core with decent video cards, and more people than ever are running them as htpcs.htpc= not being confined to a 19"lcd . i couldn't imagine how great it would be to connect 2 blue tooth controllers to my system and play cod4 or crysis in coop mode on my 50"plasma. That leads me to the second reason i think pc gamin is on the decline. interfaces dual analog is more comfy than having a bulky wireless kb and mouse. i enjoy the countless assignable buttons butt it think a controller feels more natural. i'm off to upgrade my video card...
That's true, but let's face it. The average consumer boxes up their machine and ships back to Dell even swapping out a stick of RAM is all that is needed.
Purely subjective, but I was somewhat pleased to see a pretty healthy selection of PC games in both Target and WalMart over the weekend. Now whether they actually work on people's machines...another story.
I do think some of the new integrated graphics solutions may invigorate at least a portion of the very casual PC gaming market (potential). It would bode well for the PC gaming world if most onboard graphics could at least achieve a playable frame rate/resolution on today's games. I realize Crysis-type games are utterly unattainable for this segment however.
. I do think some of the new integrated graphics solutions may invigorate at least a portion of the very casual PC gaming market (potential). It would bode well for the PC gaming world if most onboard graphics could at least achieve a playable frame rate/resolution on today's games. I realize Crysis-type games are utterly unattainable for this segment however.
I enjoy both, but still don't understand how console gamers play FPS's with the standard controller.
chalmers
Platinum Member
- Mar 14, 2008
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For me it's my attention span. On my computer, I can be playing a game, and tab out and check my email, run other programs, do lots of other things. Hell right now I'm playing WoW, posting on here, and playing online poker. I bought an XBox 360 and after a half hour or so of playing any new game, I'd get bored, and want to do other things/many things at once. I sold it and won't be buying one. I'm a PC gamer at heart I guess.
pc games are dead. for now. I miss the old days of the fps games like quake 2/quake 3 and unreal and unreal tournament. It was the back in like 95 to 2000. :-( what is there now?nothing. wow? cod4? and omg quake wars and ut3? what the hell happened?
- Mar 8, 2003
- 38,416
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PC game may appear dead if you don't know were to shop, and if you blindly believe everything the console fanboys say.
[/sarcasm on]
Oh wait! You say the FPS are *NOT* the only popular type of PC game out there?!? Surely you must be a n00b! The ONLY games that l33t gamers play are all FPS!
[/sarcasm off]
The 360 has certainly gotten a good jump, but the other consoles in this generation can not remotely hope to hold a candle to the original PS in terms of failures. It has nothing to do with 'cramming more technology' into a console or anything of the sort, the PS2 made PC tech seem rather antiquated on many fronts- it just has to do with a sub par product. The 360 quality wise is a sub par console(yes, I own one).
As far as the list of games and what people are buying- the ONLY way to get a good grasp on that is to list, say, the top 100 selling games period and see where things line up. You will fine console gamers have a FAR more diverse lineup in terms of sales volume then the PC does- it really isn't close. The PCs big problem as a platform is while it holds a very real edge in certain types of games(FPS/MMO/RTS) it is nigh useless for other types of games(fighting/party/live multiplayer/sports). I own all the platforms, as I refuse to miss out on a game I want to play due to some backwoods redneck style platform bigotry, but in a realistic sense I only use the PC for the particular genres it has a clear edge for, everything else I use the consoles for.
But your forgetting that same Plasma also functions as TV to watch Cable or Movies on. Spending $600 on a video card to surf the internet or work in office is stupid.
How is that? I see performance suffering because of problems interhent with the PC platform (drivers and the vast array of hardware to code too) how are they more flexible besides doing general things like Office, your checkbook, surf the internet and if your just doing that, you don't need a high end gaming PC to do so.
Those are North American Sales figures, not world wide sales. Those numbers also do not take into account digital downloads. WoW Burning Crusades is around 8million units sold worldwide. Crysis is over a million world wide.
PC Gaming has half of the market it had six or seven years ago.
There is a place for both PC and console gaming. For arcade style fast action games that you play with friends, consoles are great. For involved detailed and complicated turn based or strategy games, PC rules.
I'm just concerned for PC gaming as the rest of you. I'm also a little peeved about dev's looking at the grass on the other side of the fence and wanting to head in that direction. Then we have nVidia and ATi trying their hardest to produce the best video card... so hypothetically.. in 4+ years, we as consumers will be paying $600 for a video card.. JUST a video card.. to play 1 game title (worthy enough for the card) per year.
Great... I wonder why nVidia (or ATi for that matter) hasn't stepped up and help fund some dev's creations... because if they dont.. they will be producing a product that will be useless.
"look kids, I just bought us a $589.98 (on sale at the egg, with 2 mail in rebates, one of which never came through because the company wants to keep my money) GeForce 1.5millionGTX2BeefJerky so you can now play Nancy Drew at 10x7.. that came out... in ... 1998..."
Yeah.. that would suck.
Just my opinion.
Great... I wonder why nVidia (or ATi for that matter) hasn't stepped up and help fund some dev's creations... because if they dont.. they will be producing a product that will be useless.
"look kids, I just bought us a $589.98 (on sale at the egg, with 2 mail in rebates, one of which never came through because the company wants to keep my money) GeForce 1.5millionGTX2BeefJerky so you can now play Nancy Drew at 10x7.. that came out... in ... 1998..."
Yeah.. that would suck.
Just my opinion.
As a hardcore gamer of all, I definitely would call myself a PC Gamer first, console gamer second, portable gamer third. I do worry much about the PC Gaming platform, especially after gaming on the platform since it's inception in the 80's, through the amazing ride of the 90's with Id Software and company and now into the 00's.
It saddens me that so many developers don't make games for the PC first, which is really important to the PC platform and I feel it's necessary. Yeah, there's Blizzard and Valve who will always be loyal to the platform no matter what, but many developers are going multiplatform, and in doing so, the PC platform is getting the short end of the stick. It sucks, it really does.
I really don't enjoy FPS's with a gamepad, I just need my mouse and keyboard, period. Same with RTS and MMO for the quicksets on the keyboard. That being said, I really enjoy console games like GTA and NHL08 or whatever exclusives come out that are worth playing. I would prefer to play my games on my self built rig, but I'm willing to go where the games are to a certain extent.
I used to get a lot more worked up about the console vs. pc debate, but it just never ends nicely or proves anything. I just pray that PC genres like FPS and RTS and MMO and even the resurgence of the adventure genre stay strong on the platform, but I see many developers in the FPS genre leave, or put the PC second. Look at Crytek recently, saying no more exclusives for PC, that friggin sucks, no way around it. They've been the new shining beacon on the hill for PC gaming, and now they are joining the average fold of multiplatform developers. Who's going to push hardware if games are being made for the lowest common denominator (i'm referring the console hardware, not the gamers)?? What about Doom 4? Will it push PC technology or be scaled down to meet console concens? I'm still having a hard time dealing with the fact that Id Software is making a game for consoles and PC at the very same time. I do trust in them to give us a quality product, but I just don't have the same hope for other developers.
The main thing we can do as PC Gamers is BUY software, lots of software, and make sure to spread the word. It's no secret the PC has the largest install base, but the lousiest attach rate. This is the exact reason why many developers would rather make console games or dev them multiplatform. If PC Gamers bought their software in numbers like console gamers, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. That's not to say we should buy bad games, we should buy good games and support these developers. If Nvidia is selling millions and millions of 8 and 9 series GPU's, games like Crysis should be selling 5 to 10 million copies, not 1 or 2. There's just no excuse for the lousy numbers, none, as there are plenty of PC gamers out there.
Long live PC Gaming...
It saddens me that so many developers don't make games for the PC first, which is really important to the PC platform and I feel it's necessary. Yeah, there's Blizzard and Valve who will always be loyal to the platform no matter what, but many developers are going multiplatform, and in doing so, the PC platform is getting the short end of the stick. It sucks, it really does.
I really don't enjoy FPS's with a gamepad, I just need my mouse and keyboard, period. Same with RTS and MMO for the quicksets on the keyboard. That being said, I really enjoy console games like GTA and NHL08 or whatever exclusives come out that are worth playing. I would prefer to play my games on my self built rig, but I'm willing to go where the games are to a certain extent.
I used to get a lot more worked up about the console vs. pc debate, but it just never ends nicely or proves anything. I just pray that PC genres like FPS and RTS and MMO and even the resurgence of the adventure genre stay strong on the platform, but I see many developers in the FPS genre leave, or put the PC second. Look at Crytek recently, saying no more exclusives for PC, that friggin sucks, no way around it. They've been the new shining beacon on the hill for PC gaming, and now they are joining the average fold of multiplatform developers. Who's going to push hardware if games are being made for the lowest common denominator (i'm referring the console hardware, not the gamers)?? What about Doom 4? Will it push PC technology or be scaled down to meet console concens? I'm still having a hard time dealing with the fact that Id Software is making a game for consoles and PC at the very same time. I do trust in them to give us a quality product, but I just don't have the same hope for other developers.
The main thing we can do as PC Gamers is BUY software, lots of software, and make sure to spread the word. It's no secret the PC has the largest install base, but the lousiest attach rate. This is the exact reason why many developers would rather make console games or dev them multiplatform. If PC Gamers bought their software in numbers like console gamers, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. That's not to say we should buy bad games, we should buy good games and support these developers. If Nvidia is selling millions and millions of 8 and 9 series GPU's, games like Crysis should be selling 5 to 10 million copies, not 1 or 2. There's just no excuse for the lousy numbers, none, as there are plenty of PC gamers out there.
Long live PC Gaming...
I think a major issue with PC gaming versus console gaming is longevity. When a consumer buys an Xbox 360, he or she is buying a system which will support every game available for it for four to five years to come.
With a PC, a hardware configuration that runs a game at full settings one year is wholly unlikely to do the same with a new game even one year down the line.
Considering the rapid performance drop-offs of computer hardware and the sales trend of laptops with integrated graphics, PC game studios really need to establish ?generations? which might set a standard, operable minimum requirement for games over the next four years. While in many ways this does conflict with the ?latest-and-greatest? persona PC gaming has come to be defined by, it opens the doors for more casual adoption of non-casual computer games.
With a PC, a hardware configuration that runs a game at full settings one year is wholly unlikely to do the same with a new game even one year down the line.
Considering the rapid performance drop-offs of computer hardware and the sales trend of laptops with integrated graphics, PC game studios really need to establish ?generations? which might set a standard, operable minimum requirement for games over the next four years. While in many ways this does conflict with the ?latest-and-greatest? persona PC gaming has come to be defined by, it opens the doors for more casual adoption of non-casual computer games.
isxis said:
pc games are dead. for now. I miss the old days of the fps games like quake 2/quake 3 and unreal and unreal tournament. It was the back in like 95 to 2000. :-( what is there now?nothing. wow? cod4? and omg quake wars and ut3? what the hell happened?
--------------
Dead? Quake? :laugh: If that's your standard, I'm glad we're not going back to that. QW:ET was downright a shameless attempt to leech off the success of BF2 and BF2142 and it bombed hard. How bout Far Cry 2 coming out? BF3? Then for PC racing games, GRID is going to be a stellar game from what I've seen of the demo. Far from dead.
pc games are dead. for now. I miss the old days of the fps games like quake 2/quake 3 and unreal and unreal tournament. It was the back in like 95 to 2000. :-( what is there now?nothing. wow? cod4? and omg quake wars and ut3? what the hell happened?
--------------
Dead? Quake? :laugh: If that's your standard, I'm glad we're not going back to that. QW:ET was downright a shameless attempt to leech off the success of BF2 and BF2142 and it bombed hard. How bout Far Cry 2 coming out? BF3? Then for PC racing games, GRID is going to be a stellar game from what I've seen of the demo. Far from dead.
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