The State of PC Gaming and Microsoft

[motsm]

I'm surprised there are as many people that game on PC as it is, if you are playing mostly the same AAA games you can play on a console, it just seems pointless these days. PC gamers are a weird bunch to put up with the kind of shit the AAA industry puts you through, or perhaps people have just gotten to a point where they don't care.

 

[shortylickens]

I'm surprised there are as many people that game on PC as it is, if you are playing mostly the same AAA games you can play on a console, it just seems pointless these days. PC gamers are a weird bunch to put up with the kind of shit the AAA industry puts you through, or perhaps people have just gotten to a point where they don't care.

http://www.nexusmods.com/


Most of them DONT work on a console.

 

[Morbus]

I'm surprised there are as many people that game on PC as it is, if you are playing mostly the same AAA games you can play on a console, it just seems pointless these days. PC gamers are a weird bunch to put up with the kind of shit the AAA industry puts you through, or perhaps people have just gotten to a point where they don't care.

Well, no, because you have to have a PC anyway, and since you're spending money on that, why not spend a bit more and buy yourself a 200USD graphics card and you're good to go, and you can game MUCH more cheaply (I spend less than 50 bucks a month and I play all the time, loads of games, thanks mostly to steam-sales and humble bundle - all for charity), and you have a vast backlog of games that you can play, like, to mention the last few old games I've played recently, Planescape Torment, Icewind Dale 2, Temple of Elemental Evil, Half Life 2 and episodes, Psyconauts, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (and last year I played Heroes of Might and Magic 3, 4 and 5)...

Anyway, PC is probably the only choice for the smart gamer. I mean, if you JUST play AAA games that are released on both the PC and consoles, I guess it kind of makes sense to buy a console, but why invest in a machine that's not as fast, not as convenient, not as durable and certainly not as functional as a PC? Unless you only have a crap laptop, in which case, it makes more sense to buy a console, but then let me go back to my comment about a smart gamer: smart people don't use laptops at home, and I'm sorry if that offends you, but that's the truth. There's not better than having a good sound system, a good keyboard, a good mouse and a nice 24 inch screen to look at while your browsing the web or doing some work or whatever. Laptops are great if you're on the train, or at school/university or if you don't work at a desk, but everywhere else they're shit, and people only buy them instead of a desktop because they think they're cheaper. Well, they are, like a console is cheaper than a gaming PC, but that's like buying a bicycle instead of a car because it's cheaper!

 

[BladeVenom]

I'm surprised there are as many people that game on PC as it is, if you are playing mostly the same AAA games you can play on a console,

Those games are usually cheaper on the PC, and they get discounted faster.


I'm going to have a decent PC anyways, so to turn it into a gaming PC all I need is a video card. Most of my video cards have been cheaper than a console. So PC gaming is a lot cheaper.

Then there's the mods. Mods can keep a game interesting and fresh for a long time. Some of them are even better than the original game.

I can also play 20 year old games on my current PC.

With all that going for the PC, I don't understand why anyone would play console games.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I don't really agree with that last statement. There are plenty of good console games assuming you don't just like one type of game. If a game comes out on both PC and console, I'll get it on PC, but I have no issues playing console games if there are games to justify it. Granted these days there are SOOO many games around it's hard to justify having 2 or 3 gaming systems unless you do nothing but play games.

 

[motsm]

Everyone seems to be ignoring that I said if you play primarily AAA games, as I just don't think it's worth putting up with their shit. To me, it's a completely silly thing to support AAA studios on PC, as all they do is continually screw us over with embarrassingly bad ports. Everyone seems to have lowered their standards and has no problem throwing money at studios that obviously treat you like second class citizens, I'm just done with them. I still love playing old games, and occasionally a new game comes out with a PC focus, so that's why I game on a PC.

To actually bring this into the topic directly, I wouldn't blame Microsoft. Consoles are much easier to use and obtain, and much more controlled than PC's, so they are the natural choice for mass market games. So maybe an argument could be made that MS accelerated the console focused market we now have, but it was an unavoidable shift as studios saw the potential to grow.

 

[daxzy]

I think it's Microsoft's lack of attention to the Windows Store.

The fact that Steam continues to outdo it is embarrassing. Hopefully with Valve's posturing to take the Linux kernel and make a viable gamer friendly OS out of Steam, it'll jolt Microsoft to do something with Windows gaming.

 

[Morbus]

The problem with windows store is that everything is 1.99 or 0.99 or some crap like that. You know software that's worth that much is better left unbought. No software I've ever paid for was less than 10/15USD.

So Windows Store just screams "hey, come here and buy some casual games for your tablet that you bought even though you don't need!" and not "hey, come here to find, in one easy and convenient place, all the software you can buy for Windows".

Windows store is for kids. The end.

 

[HeXen]

Well, no, because you have to have a PC anyway, and since you're spending money on that, why not spend a bit more and buy yourself a 200USD graphics card and you're good to go, and you can game MUCH more cheaply (I spend less than 50 bucks a month and I play all the time, loads of games, thanks mostly to steam-sales and humble bundle - all for charity), and you have a vast backlog of games that you can play, like, to mention the last few old games I've played recently, Planescape Torment, Icewind Dale 2, Temple of Elemental Evil, Half Life 2 and episodes, Psyconauts, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (and last year I played Heroes of Might and Magic 3, 4 and 5)...

Anyway, PC is probably the only choice for the smart gamer. I mean, if you JUST play AAA games that are released on both the PC and consoles, I guess it kind of makes sense to buy a console, but why invest in a machine that's not as fast, not as convenient, not as durable and certainly not as functional as a PC? Unless you only have a crap laptop, in which case, it makes more sense to buy a console, but then let me go back to my comment about a smart gamer: smart people don't use laptops at home, and I'm sorry if that offends you, but that's the truth. There's not better than having a good sound system, a good keyboard, a good mouse and a nice 24 inch screen to look at while your browsing the web or doing some work or whatever. Laptops are great if you're on the train, or at school/university or if you don't work at a desk, but everywhere else they're shit, and people only buy them instead of a desktop because they think they're cheaper. Well, they are, like a console is cheaper than a gaming PC, but that's like buying a bicycle instead of a car because it's cheaper!

$200 graphics card?.....ewww, what's the point. If your going to PC game, then either take your games to the max with 60fps + or go console. I would never have wasted my time with anything but the highest end graphics card replacing at least every 2 years or generations. It's enough that you have to waste time updating drivers or tweaking/hacking certain games every now and then just to get it working but going mid level is pathetic and doesn't future proof enough to reach the next AAA title. Say whatever you want but I know for a fact and from 15 yrs experience that more time is spent preparing and tweaking games than actually playing especially on an individual basis.

Remember, graphics and mods IS THE reason why PC gaming is worth jack cause it's certainly not for the stability and streamlined experience when everything else aside those two reasons is identical with the console counterparts aside controls for all those PC people that think they're pro gamers.
Now back in the day, PC games used to sometimes be almost completely different than console versions right down to the music, now it's mostly the same.

 

[cmdrdredd]

$200 graphics card?.....ewww, what's the point. If your going to PC game, then either take your games to the max with 60fps + or go console. I would never have wasted my time with anything but the highest end graphics card replacing at least every 2 years or generations. It's enough that you have to waste time updating drivers or tweaking/hacking certain games every now and then just to get it working but going mid level is pathetic and doesn't future proof enough to reach the next AAA title. Say whatever you want but I know for a fact and from 15 yrs experience that more time is spent preparing and tweaking games than actually playing especially on an individual basis.

Remember, graphics and mods IS THE reason why PC gaming is worth jack cause it's certainly not for the stability and streamlined experience when everything else aside those two reasons is identical with the console counterparts aside controls for all those PC people that think they're pro gamers.
Now back in the day, PC games used to sometimes be almost completely different than console versions right down to the music, now it's mostly the same.

This is pretty much my thoughts too. The reason I buy any game on PC vs console is because it can look better. Higher resolution, larger textures, and it can run faster with the correct hardware. There are times though where the console game is identical, exactly the same. Then it wouldn't matter unless I wanted to use a mouse. There are exceptions to this like the new Tomb Raider release for the PS4 and XB1 that has added effects unavailable in the PC version or the console version of NBA 2k14 on PS4/XB1 getting a refined graphics engine for the character models. You can find mods for the PC version of NBA 2k14 though that add lots of touches.

Still the whole point is because it can look better, I can add my own levels of AA, I can run 2560x1440 if I choose, and I can control FPS games with a mouse. I will let it be known that I do not feel that using a controller for FPS games is terrible, I handle it just fine. It's not as precise and not as fast, but I don't hate it.

 

[Morbus]

$200 graphics card?.....ewww, what's the point. If your going to PC game, then either take your games to the max with 60fps + or go console.

Well, I've been a PC gamer for 12 years and I've bought these video cards:
2002: Geforce TI4200 - 120€
2004: Geforce FX5600 - free (my Ti died and Asus gave me a new VGA)
2006: Geforce FX6600GT 256MB - 110€ (used)
2008: X1950Pro 135€
2011: HD4890 1GB 120€ (used)
2013: GTX760 2GB 220€

I can't say I've always maxed out all my games, but for what I play (which encompasses most graphically demanding games), I can't say I've ever gone a long way bellow pretty high graphical settings. But then again, I'm smart, and only upgrade when I find the second game I can't play (which is usually 6 months after the first one, and usually means I can play pretty much every other game maxed out without issue). This time it was Rome 2 (which I ended up not buying, cause it's crap), second to Crysis 3... Next time will be something else, but I've always enjoyed way more graphical quality than any console, from the times of GTA3, to the times of today.

I would never have wasted my time with anything but the highest end graphics card replacing at least every 2 years or generations.

Well, you can call yourself an enthusiast. I'm not. And I'm not rich either.

It's enough that you have to waste time updating drivers or tweaking/hacking certain games every now and then just to get it working

I never bother with any of that. Games just work, or they don't and I wait for a patch. Better than on console where they work, or they don't and no patch is coming. Modding, that's a different story.

but going mid level is pathetic and doesn't future proof enough to reach the next AAA title.

Bollocks. Specially now where the high graphic cards are made for very high resolutions. For 1080p, or, god forbid, 1366x768, any old clapper will future proof you just as much as a top graphics card. Sure, a 760 will only last me until 2016, 2017 tops, if I don't want to play the news bangers of the time, but a 780Ti won't be going much beyond 2017 either, specially if you consider how spoiled you've been with your 4K screen and 16xSSAA and whatnot.

Say whatever you want but I know for a fact and from 15 yrs experience that more time is spent preparing and tweaking games than actually playing especially on an individual basis.

Yeah, but that's because you're...

I don't mean to insult, Jeremy Clarkson has a very amusing way of putting it, all I can say is, if you buy high end cards you certainly don't need to spend more than 2 minutes tweaking any game, and it's usually just install, crank everything to the max and go. It is with me, and I don't own or ever owned high end cards (apart from the 4890, but that was old when I bought it).

If you're on the cheap, and running non-gaming cards, then of course you need to tinker with things. But if your time is valuable, buy yourself something better.

Remember, graphics and mods IS THE reason why PC gaming is worth jack cause it's certainly not for the stability and streamlined experience when everything else aside those two reasons is identical with the console counterparts aside controls for all those PC people that think they're pro gamers.

Lies! The reason PC gaming is worth "jack", as you put it, is the backlog, the price, the performance, and, sure, the graphics, but I'd rather much have every single game released for PC up to 2010 than every single game released for any one console from 2010 til now.

Granted, people have different priorities. But I can't part with my yearly Fallout and Fallout 2 playthrough, or my fun with Richard Burns Rally and my Logitech wheel, or an MMO from time to time (World of Tanks, for example, and it's FtP!), or the phenomenal indie scene, just last year I bought the whole Geneforge series for 4€ and I had a blast!

Course, it's not for everyone, I don't expect it to be. But if one merely limits oneself to playing all and only just the latest graphical simulator shooter-fest, well, one doesn't have any business arguing gaming.

 

[Red Hawk]

$200 graphics card?.....ewww, what's the point. If your going to PC game, then either take your games to the max with 60fps + or go console. I would never have wasted my time with anything but the highest end graphics card replacing at least every 2 years or generations. It's enough that you have to waste time updating drivers or tweaking/hacking certain games every now and then just to get it working but going mid level is pathetic and doesn't future proof enough to reach the next AAA title. Say whatever you want but I know for a fact and from 15 yrs experience that more time is spent preparing and tweaking games than actually playing especially on an individual basis.

Remember, graphics and mods IS THE reason why PC gaming is worth jack cause it's certainly not for the stability and streamlined experience when everything else aside those two reasons is identical with the console counterparts aside controls for all those PC people that think they're pro gamers.
Now back in the day, PC games used to sometimes be almost completely different than console versions right down to the music, now it's mostly the same.

If everyone thought as you did -- that the point of PC gaming is to spend loads of cash on super-high-end hardware -- that would actually kill PC gaming. Not everyone has the free money to spend on such a setup. Not everyone has the know-how to utilize such a set up. Some people are content with mid-range cards that make their games run fine. Some people, believe it or not, are even content with integrated Intel and AMD graphics. If they thought they had to spend $300-400 on just the GPU, they would not game on PC; that's millions of lost customers, hundreds of millions of $ of lost revenue on games, developers moving on to greener pastures, and a dead industry. At that point, who cares about your $2000 gaming PC setup if you have nothing to actually play on it?

Graphics and mods are not the only reason PC gaming is worthwhile. There's game genres which really only work on PC with mouse and keyboard controls, like RTS/4X games. There's the cheaper price of games themselves, thanks to digital storefront sales and the fact that publishers can sell their games at a lower MSRP to begin with since they don't pay royalties to a console manufacturer. People may simply only have the budget for a PC and can't afford a console, but want to play games anyways. The huge library of PC gaming makes PC gaming worthwhile. Mods are a big point for PC gaming, but mods don't necessarily tie back to making use of your PC's graphics capabilities. Mods include user-made gameplay patches and tweaks, total conversions like Sins of a Solar Empire's Star Trek mods, projects like the KOTOR 2 restored content mod, user-made additional levels, characters, skins, equipment, etc., not just making everything in the game shinier and more detailed.

 

[frozentundra123456]

If everyone thought as you did -- that the point of PC gaming is to spend loads of cash on super-high-end hardware -- that would actually kill PC gaming. Not everyone has the free money to spend on such a setup. Not everyone has the know-how to utilize such a set up. Some people are content with mid-range cards that make their games run fine. Some people, believe it or not, are even content with integrated Intel and AMD graphics. If they thought they had to spend $300-400 on just the GPU, they would not game on PC; that's millions of lost customers, hundreds of millions of $ of lost revenue on games, developers moving on to greener pastures, and a dead industry. At that point, who cares about your $2000 gaming PC setup if you have nothing to actually play on it?

Graphics and mods are not the only reason PC gaming is worthwhile. There's game genres which really only work on PC with mouse and keyboard controls, like RTS/4X games. There's the cheaper price of games themselves, thanks to digital storefront sales and the fact that publishers can sell their games at a lower MSRP to begin with since they don't pay royalties to a console manufacturer. People may simply only have the budget for a PC and can't afford a console, but want to play games anyways. The huge library of PC gaming makes PC gaming worthwhile. Mods are a big point for PC gaming, but mods don't necessarily tie back to making use of your PC's graphics capabilities. Mods include user-made gameplay patches and tweaks, total conversions like Sins of a Solar Empire's Star Trek mods, projects like the KOTOR 2 restored content mod, user-made additional levels, characters, skins, equipment, etc., not just making everything in the game shinier and more detailed.

I have a 100.00 graphics card, and it is more than good enough for me. I simply added it to a PC I have anyway, and good to go. The other pluses for pc gaming is the ability to use a keyboard/mouse, availability of a much wider variety of games, the ability to play older games, and the fact that the games become cheaper much faster than on console.

So to me, it is not really about graphics at all. I can see the point of a console though, if you only play AAA games or console exclusives.

 

[BladeVenom]

A $200 graphics card is still superior to console graphics. Plus there's still all the other benefits of PC gaming.

 

[Red Hawk]

A $200 graphics card is still superior to console graphics. Plus there's still all the other benefits of PC gaming.

Eh, even with console graphics is a more accurate way to put it. The PS4 has a graphics chip with theoretical performance between the 7870 and 7850, and they'll probably be able to get more out of it thanks to console optimizations.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Eh, even with console graphics is a more accurate way to put it. The PS4 has a graphics chip with theoretical performance between the 7870 and 7850, and they'll probably be able to get more out of it thanks to console optimizations.

Sure, in 4+ years when they have figured out how to get the most out of them and after there are much better cards on the market to more than make up for it.

 

[Red Hawk]

Sure, in 4+ years when they have figured out how to get the most out of them and after there are much better cards on the market to more than make up for it.

That just means a console is a better investment than a $200 graphics card right now.

 

[Rezident]

No. PC Gaming is great, Microsoft is still underperforming. They botched the last Windows release (and let's not even talk about Vista) and they're getting hammered by the playstation 4. Why do you think they had to get rid of their chief executive?

PC Gaming on the other hand, is booming, google it
PC game sales predicted to rise to $25b in 2014
http://www.pcgamesn.com/pc-gaming-doing-fine-3-billion-growth-predicted-year

I don't see how MS is relevant to PC gaming since the are rarely involved in a decent PC game. Remember Games for Windows Live? That's what I think of when I think of Microsoft - an anti-consumer, spectacular failure. Leave PC gaming to the experts, like valve, MS are irrelevant.

 

[destrekor]

Sure, in 4+ years when they have figured out how to get the most out of them and after there are much better cards on the market to more than make up for it.

Right now, there is also very little overhead. And more importantly, the overall system is x86 so I don't think figuring out how to extract all that is possible is going to be a major concern. They will try and wring everything possible out of it, unlike with desktop coding, in the later years of the device, just to try and have a visual edge.

That's the big draw of having the Mantle API on the desktop, or having any low-level API for GPUs. The latest DirectX tries to get as low as possible, but for the general purposes of compatibility, it can never get as close to the hypervisor level as Mantle does. It's basically pure hardware.

That said, if you ignore Mantle (if you have anything other than AMD GPUs (possibly only discrete chips), then you have to recognize that the desktop has significant overhead when it comes to video games.

You can have the same hardware on a console as a desktop, and the desktop will be much worse in comparison. So the PS4 and XBONE having a similar GPU means it will outperform the PC at similar specs.

 

[Rezident]

Steam has it's issues... You can be vac banned simply over a text edit in a cfg file and have absolutely no recourse to have it removed. It's pure BS. At least with EA ... <snip>.

What!? is this true? I've been editing .cfg's for years, since TFC at least, you absolutely have to for some games, although I have not needed to for a while. They would hardly ban you for changing say, the FOV in a .cfg would they?

 

[natto fire]

That just means a console is a better investment than a $200 graphics card right now.

I wouldn't consider either purchase an investment in the financial sense. I get that you are using it in the colloquial sense that the console improves over time. In any event, you can easily end up paying more for software and accessories for the console which could instead go into a new video card for the PC. That would take a long time if buying the exact same games, I suppose.

Also, I don't think we are going to see as much of a linear boost in performance this generation of consoles because they have common µarch in the CPU and GPU. Time will tell, and I hope both console and PC platforms thrive, while keeping tablet and other touchscreen gaming at bay...

 

[PrincessFrosty]

What!? is this true? I've been editing .cfg's for years, since TFC at least, you absolutely have to for some games, although I have not needed to for a while. They would hardly ban you for changing say, the FOV in a .cfg would they?

No, VAC is like most anti-cheat it looks for specific patterns in files and processes to indicate known cheats, pretty much like how anti-virus works.

If people have been banned for cfg edits, and I've never heard of a confirmed case before now, it's almost certainly something they'd reverse if you appealed with steam support, it's quite hard with a pattern based system to get a false positive.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

In essence, my question is: has Microsoft killed PC gaming by having so many Xbox exclusive titles that are not released for Windows?

Now, first off, let me say that I don't think PC gaming is dead at all or dying.

Seems like you answered your own question.

Periodically it seems like it becomes in vogue to say that pc gaming is "dead" or "dying." But its still here, and will be for a looooooong time. At least as long as I am alive.

 

[destrekor]

No, VAC is like most anti-cheat it looks for specific patterns in files and processes to indicate known cheats, pretty much like how anti-virus works.

If people have been banned for cfg edits, and I've never heard of a confirmed case before now, it's almost certainly something they'd reverse if you appealed with steam support, it's quite hard with a pattern based system to get a false positive.

I imagine anyone who has been banned for file edits have not entirely admitted to performing edits that are NOT approved.

There is editing more parameters than simply available in the GUI menu, or simply going about it easier than some bad menus, and then there's turning off advanced features that give an unfair advantage.

I'm fairly certain Valve's system is pretty good about figuring out which are normal edits, and which ones are known to be only done by people up to no good (in the world of multiplayer fairness, at least).

 

[Red Storm]

I'm still gaming on my old AMD 5850, and it runs everything I play at good detail @ 1080P. It has been a fantastic investment. They day I buy a console is the day they are no longer consoles.