The start to the end of tipping

[Black Octagon]

Tipping fascinates me. It's sometimes done but NEVER expected here in continental Europe. Some places have terrible customer service and I do suspect that one reason for this is that the staff are already being paid as much as they are going to get.

In the US, waiting staff are almost always excellent because they want their tip. It's therefore a pleasure to be a tourist in North America, even though it can take real effort to always remember to carry cash for tips.

Still, doesn't make the tipping system superior. Why should I tip my waited for a particularly delicious meal? In a rational world, I should head into the kitchens and tip the chef. Likewise, if my food is mediocre but the service is exceptional, why should the waiter have to put up with my mediocre tip, just because the chef lessened my overall net experience?

All things considered, an ideal system is one in which there are no tips at all, but if you go somewhere decidedly more expensive than the average, then everything is better, ALWAYS! Despite the fact that we like to say "you get what you pay for," it is unfortunately not a guaranteed rule.

 

[DigDog]

i actually agree with most of the protips camp (i tip), but what pisses me off is when they try to place on me the guilt for a server's wage (i worked 6+ years in restaurants).

"here's a job, you carry plates to the customers and then arry them away; it pays [insert wage here]. do you want it?"

how is any of that my fault. too low wage? quit. when nobody wants to work for that wage, the boss will have to raise it. did you take it? then dont complain, nobody forced you.

 

[It's Not Lupus]

Don't forget to the add a tip to the jar for the cashier at Subway. Not.

 

[Carson Dyle]

What mechanism does the restaurant have in place too [sic] deal with customer complaints about poor service?

It's called "keeping your job". At least that's what it's called in just about any other line of work.

 

[Artorias]

One of the most ridiculous things I've seen regarding tipping in Toronto is at a Burgers Priest joint. After the lady at the cashier finished taking my order, the first thing that popped up on the debit machine was "Enter Tip".

Like are you fucking serious? For what?

 

[werepossum]

The way I do things is you start at 20%. Based on your service, this percentage can either go up, down, or stay the same. You can work your way all the way down to 0% and I have no qualms about doing that.

This, exactly. Why on Earth would I want to forgo my already limited control over my service? Although like smackababy I always leave something; if they were horrible at their job I don't want them to think I just forgot.

Neil Boortz has a thing he does in expensive restaurants. He prefigures the tip and lays it out in cash, then tells the waiter "This is your tip. Every time I need something and you aren't there, I take something out."

I'd also like to add that 20% is too generous for normal everyday service. In my book, 15% is for nominal service. 20% is for great service meaning my glass of water is always filled, I am greeted with a smile, I am checked up on numerous times in my meal and I am made to feel that I being waited on and the server pays prompt attention to me.

I dont always receive service that merits 20% gratuity and therefore from this premise I dont like this place.

Doesn't that depend on the restaurant? If it's a very high end place then yes, 15% for good service is reasonable. If it's Cracker Barrel or some such, even 20% is too low for good service. The food just isn't that expensive, and since I still have a vested interested in the employees being motivated, happy and capable, I want them earning reasonably good money. Broadly speaking I want the same service for $9 Cracker Barrel as for a $25 steak, so I expect to pay a higher percentage to ensure it. Also it makes the servers happy, and that's worth a few bucks.

 

[DrDoug]

The way I do things is you start at 20%. Based on your service, this percentage can either go up, down, or stay the same. You can work your way all the way down to 0% and I have no qualms about doing that.

I think more businesses need to do this. Lop employee pay by 20% and then 'tip' the employees based on their daily performance. After all, employers are paying for services to be performed and have the right to decide if the work performed that day merits a tip.

:biggrin:

 

[Xcobra]

I don't like how the prices in the food will already take into account tipping. Tipping is subjective. I don't want to pay that much for service if it's crap. I do love the idea of including the tax there though. It's handy.

 

[Markbnj]

It just seems silly to accept that tips are an unalterable way of life in restaurants and would be ridiculous in most other places.

The idea of a "share of the catch," though, is not ridiculous in lots of occupations. In fact it's closely related to the idea of piecework. It's not a perfect analogy for tipping, of course, but it's closer than not, imo.

 

[werepossum]

One of the most ridiculous things I've seen regarding tipping in Toronto is at a Burgers Priest joint. After the lady at the cashier finished taking my order, the first thing that popped up on the debit machine was "Enter Tip".

Like are you fucking serious? For what?

For me it was a Subway shop in Key West with a jar labeled "Tips please". I was the first person in, waiting as he unlocked the place, and the sullen teenager behind the counter had already primed it with a fiver - and this is twenty-five years ago.

 

[zerocool84]

I agree with this. What mechanism does the restaurant have in place too deal with customer complaints about poor service? The tipping system guarantees the server will make an effort to provide good service by holding the tip as "collateral".

Hahaha no it doesn't guarantee any good service. If you get horrible service, they still expect a tip. That's how sad it's gotten. God forbid they actually provide decent customer service that's in their basic job description!!!

 

[Bateluer]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/23/luxury/no-tipping-policy/index.html?hpt=hp_t5

-Instead, owner Thad Vogler has decided to increase his menu prices by 20% to pay the staff and eliminate any end-of-dinner math calculations.

-He built tax and gratuity into his menu prices when he opened the restaurant at the start of 2014. The wait staff makes either $10 an hour or 20% of sales (whichever is higher) and Conway said his servers average about $16.50 an hour.

-In Packhouse, despite a (no tipping) sign on the floor when you come in the front door and a note in the menu about the policy, Conway said some of his customers can't walk away without leaving something.

"This will be the most controversial and most discussed movement of the next year," predicted Andrew Freeman, president of restaurant consulting firm AF&Co.


yeah!
surprised it took this long

In a few months, we'll be reading about how he's had to lay off half his wait staff due to slow business since everyone pretty much went across the street.

 

[disappoint]

Oh no this is terrible news.

If people don't tip they won't need to do math in their heads as often anymore. With less math in head practice everyone will become dumb and noobs will flood ATOT with "Does your poop sometimes smell weird if you eat fermented cabbage?" and "Oh I didn't know that was just sauerkraut!" or some such.

The stuff will cost the same in the end tho.

 

[disappoint]

One of the most ridiculous things I've seen regarding tipping in Toronto is at a Burgers Priest joint. After the lady at the cashier finished taking my order, the first thing that popped up on the debit machine was "Enter Tip".

Like are you fucking serious? For what?

I think I've seen those "Enter Tip" machines in China. I would but I'm always worried I'll get arrested if anyone sees me.

 

[NetWareHead]

It's called "keeping your job". At least that's what it's called in just about any other line of work.

"Keeping their job" is for the waiter to be concerned about. My concern is paying for what I was sold. My point is that after dinner, if unsatisfied with the service, you then need to go through a manager to get a portion of your bill reduced, argueing about the poor service not worth 20%. My previous point about going out to eat to relax holds true; who wants to get involved in this sort of debate and pointing out every flaw of the service rendered? What if I am in front of colleagues, family, friends, date etc... I have to eat this automatic 20% "tip" because then disputing it will make me look like a cheap ass. No thanks. I prefer the current tip system where I'll leave exactly how much I feel the service was worth.

 

[Exterous]

I don't think it will work. Gratuities are very ingrained in the culture, and it's not all that easy to change.

Agreed. The first time I went to Europe I felt very weird leaving the restaurant without leaving a tip. I knew that was acceptable but it still felt wrong. Even now when I go I feel a little bit of a twinge for the first couple of days

One of the most ridiculous things I've seen regarding tipping in Toronto is at a Burgers Priest joint. After the lady at the cashier finished taking my order, the first thing that popped up on the debit machine was "Enter Tip".

Like are you fucking serious? For what?

What really gets me are the ones that has options starting 15% and go up from there for a place where you place your order at the front, they bring out the food and thats it for service. To enter anything less than 15% you have to hit 'Other' and then enter your own amount. Yeah - fuck you very much

 

[sourceninja]

...

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Start to the end of decent service. Wait staff who make decent money know how to treat a table full of people. Flat rate pay = lowest common denominator service.

 

[smackababy]

I know of noone in the restaurant industry (and I know several servers) who think they are at fault for poor tips. It's always "that customer was an asshole" and never "What did I do wrong?"

The only way to fix bad service is to ask for a manager.

Sadly, this is the case for me as well. I have a few friend's wives on my FB and they are always posting stupid crap about how hard a servers life is and the kind of customers they hate. There are always stupid crap about poor tippers. It never dawns on them, if every tipper is poor, perhaps they aren't the problem.


But, I don't typically eat out and when I do, it is at nicer places. They tolerate poor waitstaff less than I do, so I always get a great experience. They are tipped well, too.

 

[Mixolydian]

I don't mind tipping. Not sure why it pisses so many people off.

 

[smackababy]

I don't mind tipping. Not sure why it pisses so many people off.

The act of tipping doesn't piss me off. It is the attitude that servers are deserving of extra, regardless of service quality because they are paid less than the standard minimum wage, which they aren't.

 

[torpid]

It's not that innovative or new. If you want something new that's slowly catching on, it's ticketing systems instead of reservations. You pay up front for the prix fixe meal, including service.

 

[TheSlamma]

It's a bad idea, I prefer good service and to control how much I'm tipping, some deserve 10%.. some deserve 20%. The owner of the place doesn't get to tell me that Sally who didn't get me a refill on my water for 15 minutes is worth 15% tip.

Go to Europe sometime and it only takes a day to find out that the service is MISERABLE in comparison. They know they are getting their tip no matter what from VAT so you will not see a water refill for 10-20 minutes at best.

 

[Fritzo]

I'd be for this. I hate tipping. I'm a generous tipper (I always do at least 20%), but I purposely avoid eating at diners for lunch due to tipping. Why spend $2 more on a meal I can get faster through a drive through?

The act of tipping doesn't piss me off. It is the attitude that servers are deserving of extra, regardless of service quality because they are paid less than the standard minimum wage, which they aren't.

How often do you get bad service though? Overall, I'd say 99% of my servers have been great.

 

[Puppies04]

In an ideal world tips would be worked out on the service provided and not a percentage of the meal. Why should you tip a waiter $100 on a $500 3 course meal but only tip $10 on a $50 3 course meal.

$5 per course with an extra few $ added for excellent service seems more than generous enough. I would be happy to subscribe to this model or even pay more if that was deemed "fair" what I don't agree with is the whole % thing, it makes no sense whatsoever.