The start to the end of tipping

[JEDI]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/23/luxury/no-tipping-policy/index.html?hpt=hp_t5

-Instead, owner Thad Vogler has decided to increase his menu prices by 20% to pay the staff and eliminate any end-of-dinner math calculations.

-He built tax and gratuity into his menu prices when he opened the restaurant at the start of 2014. The wait staff makes either $10 an hour or 20% of sales (whichever is higher) and Conway said his servers average about $16.50 an hour.

-In Packhouse, despite a (no tipping) sign on the floor when you come in the front door and a note in the menu about the policy, Conway said some of his customers can't walk away without leaving something.

"This will be the most controversial and most discussed movement of the next year," predicted Andrew Freeman, president of restaurant consulting firm AF&Co.


yeah!
surprised it took this long

 

[Markbnj]

I don't think it will work. Gratuities are very ingrained in the culture, and it's not all that easy to change. If his food is outstanding he could easily get away with a 20% premium, but I wonder if people will accept it when they know it's overhead and not on the plate? That's a 20% they'll be paying every time, whether the service was excellent or terrible.

 

[JEDI]

I don't think it will work. Gratuities are very ingrained in the culture, and it's not all that easy to change. If his food is outstanding he could easily get away with a 20% premium, but I wonder if people will accept it when they know it's overhead and not on the plate? That's a 20% they'll be paying every time, whether the service was excellent or terrible.

But most diners don't tend to give tips based solely on service, according to Martin O'Neill, Hotel and Restaurant Management program director at Auburn. "People tip regardless. It's more societal pressure that weighs on the decision."

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I don't think it will work. Gratuities are very ingrained in the culture, and it's not all that easy to change. If his food is outstanding he could easily get away with a 20% premium, but I wonder if people will accept it when they know it's overhead and not on the plate? That's a 20% they'll be paying every time, whether the service was excellent or terrible.

Yup. Tipping is only spreading.

Tip your barber.
Tip your cab driver.
Tip your maid.
Tip your bellhop.
Tip your starbucks barrista.
Tip your doorman.
Tip your tour guide.
Tip your ski instructor.
Tip your grocery bagger.
tip your tip tippoty tip top.

OMG YOU DIDNT TIP? WHAT AN ASSHOLE!!!! You ungrateful piece of trash! You don't carry cash on you?! You're a shithead! Sorry, one outstanding restaurant isn't going to make the slightest difference.

 

[soulcougher73]

Good, I hope it dies

 

[CoPhotoGuy]

But most diners don't tend to give tips based solely on service, according to Martin O'Neill, Hotel and Restaurant Management program director at Auburn. "People tip regardless. It's more societal pressure that weighs on the decision."

The way I do things is you start at 20%. Based on your service, this percentage can either go up, down, or stay the same. You can work your way all the way down to 0% and I have no qualms about doing that.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I don't think it will work. Gratuities are very ingrained in the culture, and it's not all that easy to change. If his food is outstanding he could easily get away with a 20% premium, but I wonder if people will accept it when they know it's overhead and not on the plate? That's a 20% they'll be paying every time, whether the service was excellent or terrible.

I went to [Electronics Retailer] and bought a TV. The service is always terrible but they never discount the TVs and the people in the back who make the TVs don't get a sales commission.

It's almost as though the overhead is built into the price of the product everywhere else. :awe: (I don't think people will have a problem with this once it's explained to them, except for small-pricked power tripping asswipes who enjoy being able to punish what they perceive to be bad service.)

Anyway, isn't this guy doing what the anti-tipping "the-waitress-ate-my-baby-and-spit-in-my-food" brigade are always saying they want?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I might sound like the grumpy "Get off my lawn" guy. But I'm sick and tired of the "Gotta get EVERYONE a present" concept too. Doesn't matter who it is, you have to get EVERYONE a present for christmas.

We just left our maid an Extra $50 for Christmas. Why? It boils down to a business transaction. Your co-workers? Unless you hang out with them why do you feel the need to give them presents? It used to have meaning now it's "Oh god, I need to get one for Carol too, that bitch is always a pain in my ass".

 

[Maximilian]

Tipping? Gtfo with that shit! Pry my tip from my cold dead fingers 😡

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

"People tip regardless. It's more societal pressure that weighs on the decision."

It IS societal pressure though. As much as you can put $0.00, there is this social pressure that weighs down on you when you are picking up your food and there is a tip line to not put $0.00. Even though no one was serving you, there is still some sort of pressure to put some number there for some reason.

I fucking hate tip lines.

 

[NetWareHead]

I don't think it will work. Gratuities are very ingrained in the culture, and it's not all that easy to change. If his food is outstanding he could easily get away with a 20% premium, but I wonder if people will accept it when they know it's overhead and not on the plate? That's a 20% they'll be paying every time, whether the service was excellent or terrible.

I agree with this. What mechanism does the restaurant have in place too deal with customer complaints about poor service? The tipping system guarantees the server will make an effort to provide good service by holding the tip as "collateral".

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I agree with this. What mechanism does the restaurant have in place too deal with customer complaints about poor service?

Complain to the manager? Call corporate?

The tipping system guarantees the server will make an effort to provide good service by holding the tip as "collateral".

Which is why all retail employees, where the customer has similar avenues to have complaints addressed, are tipped. Oh... wait... :hmm:

 

[GagHalfrunt]

This is hardly a new or original idea. Tipless restaurants have been around forever and they never seem to be anything more than a curiosity. It never spreads or goes anywhere and given how competitive restaurants are and how closely they monitor their competitors that's a pretty good sign that it's not all that effective. If it helped draw customers or provide better service more people would be doing it. Ultimately, I think American diners believe in the tipping business model. There is an undeniable perception that the waitstaff will do a better job if tips are on the line and that they'll slack off if paid an hourly rate. That might be true and it might be complete fantasy, but the diners believe it and as long as they do they'll go to places where tipping is part of the equation rather than having prices jacked up 20% to cover it.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Does this mean the end of commissions and sales staff? I doubt it, this model works great where his is but do you really think its going to work at a chain Resteraunt?

 

[Puppies04]

I don't think it will work. Gratuities are very ingrained in the culture, and it's not all that easy to change. If his food is outstanding he could easily get away with a 20% premium, but I wonder if people will accept it when they know it's overhead and not on the plate? That's a 20% they'll be paying every time, whether the service was excellent or terrible.

Works in most countries.

You get a bill that covers the food and paying the service staff at this point you make a choice.

A. The staff performed their duties as expected and the food was as advertised, you leave

B. The service and or quality of the food was higher than exected, you leave a tip

C. The service or quality of the food was less than the expected quality, you leave and don't go back there again/you complain to the manager the whole restaurant looks at you like the colossal douche you are and deep down you feel like the tightwad jerk that you really are.


Forced tipping is not tipping, it is a SERVICE CHARGE.

Don't call it something it isnt.

 

[NetWareHead]

Complain to the manager? Call corporate?

Which is why all retail employees, where the customer has similar avenues to have complaints addressed, are tipped. Oh... wait... :hmm:

Just because you complain, doesnt mean you will have your $$ refunded. And who wants to go through that struggle? I eat out to relax and be pampered. Now I have to engage the restaurant's "customer service" to file a complaint and work to get my $ back.

I like the current tipping system where I can dangle that carrot above the server's head and guarantee satisfactory service. if I get shitty service, I simply tip poorly or don't leave a tip at all and that's the end of the transaction. Only the money I want to spend leaves my pocket and no more than that.

 

[NetWareHead]

I'd also like to add that 20% is too generous for normal everyday service. In my book, 15% is for nominal service. 20% is for great service meaning my glass of water is always filled, I am greeted with a smile, I am checked up on numerous times in my meal and I am made to feel that I being waited on and the server pays prompt attention to me.

I dont always receive service that merits 20% gratuity and therefore from this premise I dont like this place.

 

[Crusty]

There's a co-op brewpub in Austin that does the same thing. I've seen them get mad/yell at patrons for insisting on tipping.

 

[moonbogg]

Does it really matter? I agree there is societal pressure, but I don't find it to be a big deal. The reason we tip so much in this country across so many occupations, is because those are occupations where someone is serving you, and American's have old slave guilt embedded in their minds.
Also, American society favors high spending and lavish lifestyle. Its what people wish they had and what people gloat about when they have it. We feel sorry for people who serve us because they behave like slaves as they serve us, and this is far from the American high society idealistic lifestyle. So the tip is part guilt, part pity, even though most of us should pity ourselves every time we drive home in our non-Mercedes.

 

[mmntech]

Tipping is rare and actually a bit insulting in Japan. The service is already included in the price. I suppose if you give extra, it's like calling the restaurant owner a tightwad.

IMO, first step is reforming minimum wage rules so that restaurants have to pay the same rate as everyone else. Customers shouldn't be subsidizing their staff's pay through generosity, and more importantly, it's unfair to other businesses who have to pay the higher rate. Tips were supposed to be a reward for good service, not a substitute for payroll.

 

[smackababy]

IMO, first step is reforming minimum wage rules so that restaurants have to pay the same rate as everyone else. Customers shouldn't be subsidizing their staff's pay through generosity, and more importantly, it's unfair to other businesses who have to pay the higher rate. Tips were supposed to be a reward for good service, not a substitute for payroll.

Restaurants already have to do this. In quite a few states there is no "tipped employee minimum wage", so they already make the state minimum wage (California is one) and in every other state if the wage after tips does not meet the minimum wage, the employer is required by law to pay them up to the minimum wage. This entire bs argument that servers get paid $3.15 an hour is a farce to guilt you into tipping.

With that said, I always tip. I will never not tip in situations where tipping is the norm. If the service is bad, I will intentionally leave a small tip. I don't want them to believe I was just an asshole who doesn't tip; I want them to know they are poor at their fucking easy job.

 

[Oyeve]

When I used to travel to Germany all the time I learned you only give 1-2%. First time I went on business I went out 3 times a day and gave the usual 15%. I was treated like royalty until the next day when my German co-worker said you are supposed to leave 1-2%. People actually get paid well there. Too bad the US isnt like that because I feel 90% of these ahole waiters dont even deserve 2%.

 

[OutHouse]

When I used to travel to Germany all the time I learned you only give 1-2%. First time I went on business I went out 3 times a day and gave the usual 15%. I was treated like royalty until the next day when my German co-worker said you are supposed to leave 1-2%. People actually get paid well there. Too bad the US isnt like that because I feel 90% of these ahole waiters dont even deserve 2%.

i learned not to tip. it was difficult not to feel guilty but was really nice after a few year not having to worry about a tip. then come back to the states and holy shit EVERYBODY has their hand out.

 

[Markbnj]

It's almost as though the overhead is built into the price of the product everywhere else.

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that wait staff are more like crew on a fishing boat. They only make money if they catch fish, but if they catch fish they make good money.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that wait staff are more like crew on a fishing boat. They only make money if they catch fish, but if they catch fish they make good money.

Maybe the same metric could be applied to other occupations. I think the DMV experience would be improved if the clerks were paid by how many people they successfully moved through the line rather than adopting that "Fuck you, I'm here all day, you can sit around all day too" attitude. Or maybe pay mailmen minimum wage plus tips if they manage to get my mail into my box in good condition on a rainy day instead of it looking like it just got dredged up from the wreckage of the Titanic? If paying fisherman for productivity is good and provides incentive to work harder then maybe that should work across the board. If tips really encourages servers to outperform flat-rate employees then the same should apply to other occupations too. It just seems silly to accept that tips are an unalterable way of life in restaurants and would be ridiculous in most other places.