<< Hoards of engineers throughout Microsoft, Intel, and Apple will be on the Mafia payroll, providing 'special' hardware and software updates. >>
LOL it's probably already that way...
<< Hoards of engineers throughout Microsoft, Intel, and Apple will be on the Mafia payroll, providing 'special' hardware and software updates. >>
LOL it's probably already that way...
For some reason, I am reminded of a murder case I heard about not so long ago involving a pregnant woman.
The murdered killed the woman and so her unborn child died as well.
In court, the killer was charged with not only the murder of the woman, but also the murder of the unborn child. Seem fair? The unborn fetus would have grown, had nothing else come up, to be a functioning person, and its life was cut short. He was charged.
This sounds righteous and fair, but it was proposed by a very conservative judge (or was it a lawyer? Dont really remember). Anyway, what was HIS reason for brining this up? Could it be that, in some future abortion lawsuit/supreme court case/backyard rally he could quote this as a precident?
my point?
even if you think something good and righteous is going on, you could very easily be wrong
The murdered killed the woman and so her unborn child died as well.
In court, the killer was charged with not only the murder of the woman, but also the murder of the unborn child. Seem fair? The unborn fetus would have grown, had nothing else come up, to be a functioning person, and its life was cut short. He was charged.
This sounds righteous and fair, but it was proposed by a very conservative judge (or was it a lawyer? Dont really remember). Anyway, what was HIS reason for brining this up? Could it be that, in some future abortion lawsuit/supreme court case/backyard rally he could quote this as a precident?
my point?
even if you think something good and righteous is going on, you could very easily be wrong
This is frieghtning, what the US does today other world governments will follow tommorrow, You guys need to stamp on this now before it puts the home builder in jail. it interfers with your personal right of free choice , and only the big corps will gain.
WW
WW
I've been slow getting back to this...but...
There's a few letters out there that you can either sign and mail, or edit to send you your senators and/or representatives, and I didn't see it mentioned in here, as far as I could tell.
My version at patchmonkey.net (Word 97/2000/XP)
Tuxami.org's Letters (various formats)
Also, kirsul over in the Megatokyo forums has written a research paper on this already, and has provided a lot of info, here.
There's a few letters out there that you can either sign and mail, or edit to send you your senators and/or representatives, and I didn't see it mentioned in here, as far as I could tell.
My version at patchmonkey.net (Word 97/2000/XP)
Tuxami.org's Letters (various formats)
Also, kirsul over in the Megatokyo forums has written a research paper on this already, and has provided a lot of info, here.
Canadians...READ!. Our own government is starting to make reference to the DMCA - please refer to the "Consultation Paper On Digital Copyright Issues". Make them STOP! Show up for one of the meetings listed on that page and make your presence known.
Please read the following quotation from this paper. The government seems to be taking things fairly, but if legitimate users don't let their voices heard, the paper's wording seems to suggest that attempts to enforce legitimate users' rights and at the same time respect copyright law, would be futile, and a shift in favour of copyright holders at the expense of legitimate users could take place.
<< In the US, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) provisions which implement the above noted articles 11 and 18 target not only acts of circumventing technological protection measures for the purpose of gaining unauthorized access to works, but specifically prohibit (subject to certain exceptions) the manufacture and distribution of devices and the sale of services (circumvention services) that are used to circumvent such measures. The EU Directive contains a similar prohibition that targets both individual acts of circumvention, as well as the manufacture of and trade in devices primarily designed to circumvent protection measures.
In the debates surrounding the adoption of policies on anti-circumvention measures in both the EU and the US, policy makers needed to consider a number of issues with respect to the use of such technologies. For instance, the prohibition on circumvention devices and services could have the effect of overriding the traditional contours of copyright protection that emphasize a balance between the rights of creators and the interests of users. More particularly, the prohibition could have the effect of potentially blocking all types of access and use, whether or not they constitute an infringement of copyright. In describing this result, commentators have sometimes used the metaphor of the "locked drawer", whereby authorization to see or use the contents of the drawer must always be obtained from the owner of the key.
In Japan, the legislative choice has been to provide a very thorough and stringent regulatory framework against the circumvention of technological protection measures. Both devices (including a set of parts of a device that can be easily assembled) and programs having a principal function for the circumvention of technological protection measures used to protect copyright, are prohibited. Subject to special rules, an act of circumvention that makes a work vulnerable to being reproduced is proscribed.
In Australia, the Copyright Amendment (Digital Agenda) Bill does not proscribe the act of circumvention, but makes it illegal to manufacture or trade in devices that circumvent "effective technological measures". It also makes it illegal to provide services for circumventing such measures. The definition of "effective technological measures" is fairly narrow, including only copy control mechanisms and mechanisms that provide access to a work through an access code or process.
The range of provisions adopted reflects the flexibility of the WIPO treaty requirements, but also suggests that there is no clear sense of what impact technological measures will have on copyright legislation. Although the US DMCA entered into force in 1998, the entry into force of prohibitions against unauthorized access to technologically-protected works was suspended for two years. This allowed the US Copyright Office to assess and address the potential impacts of the legislation in the context of a rule-making process. The DMCA also instituted regular three year reviews to provide an ongoing mechanism to measure impacts. The provisions are now in force along with exceptions developed through the rule-making process.
Proposals
Domestically, some copyright stakeholders have indicated that in the absence of a prohibition against the manufacture and traffic in circumvention devices, would-be infringers can legally access the means that enable infringement. With respect to the possibility of sanctioning acts of circumvention alone, these stakeholders have also expressed the concern that attempts to seek legal recourse on the basis of such acts are costly and may not always be effective in providing a strong deterrent to infringement in a globally interconnected world.
The departments acknowledge the concerns of these copyright stakeholders, but must consider these concerns within the framework of Canadian copyright law, where certain uses of works and limitations on copyright protection are recognized as serving legitimate and important public policy objectives. Such limitations are evidenced by the finite term of copyright protection, the fair dealing provisions and the exception provisions. These elements of our copyright law have been the outcome of extensive debate, consultation, jurisprudence and legal obligation, both domestically and internationally. Any attempt to affect that balance may require a reconsideration of the current extent of the exceptions provisions.
The departments have considered the possibility of restricting or prohibiting the traffic in circumvention devices, while at the same time permitting devices that have, as their primary purpose, an activity that qualifies as legitimate, such as the enjoyment of an exception or access to material in the public domain. The difficulty is that devices which are suited to infringing uses are, by and large, equally suited to non-infringing uses. For example, a device used to circumvent a measure that prevents unauthorized copying will not distinguish between materials that continue to benefit from copyright protection from those that have fallen into the public domain.
Under these circumstances, the departments question whether it is possible to establish a legal framework which, on the one hand covers virtually all activities that undermine the use of technological measures, but at the same time continues to reflect the policy balance currently set out in the Act. Such a change in the Copyright Act could potentially result in a new right of access, the scope of which goes well beyond any existing right, and would represent a fundamental shift in Canadian copyright policy. It could serve to transform a measure designed for protection into a means of impeding legitimate uses. In essence, a change of this nature would be tantamount to bringing within the realm of copyright law, matters (e.g., restrictions on use) which may be more properly within the purview of contract law. Given the rate at which the technology underlying protection measures is changing, it is difficult, under present circumstances, to evaluate the public policy implications of such a step. Perhaps the role of technological changes warrants a careful study to examine what will be the dimensions of the intersection of anti-circumvention measures with the current Act. >>
Please read the following quotation from this paper. The government seems to be taking things fairly, but if legitimate users don't let their voices heard, the paper's wording seems to suggest that attempts to enforce legitimate users' rights and at the same time respect copyright law, would be futile, and a shift in favour of copyright holders at the expense of legitimate users could take place.
<< In the US, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) provisions which implement the above noted articles 11 and 18 target not only acts of circumventing technological protection measures for the purpose of gaining unauthorized access to works, but specifically prohibit (subject to certain exceptions) the manufacture and distribution of devices and the sale of services (circumvention services) that are used to circumvent such measures. The EU Directive contains a similar prohibition that targets both individual acts of circumvention, as well as the manufacture of and trade in devices primarily designed to circumvent protection measures.
In the debates surrounding the adoption of policies on anti-circumvention measures in both the EU and the US, policy makers needed to consider a number of issues with respect to the use of such technologies. For instance, the prohibition on circumvention devices and services could have the effect of overriding the traditional contours of copyright protection that emphasize a balance between the rights of creators and the interests of users. More particularly, the prohibition could have the effect of potentially blocking all types of access and use, whether or not they constitute an infringement of copyright. In describing this result, commentators have sometimes used the metaphor of the "locked drawer", whereby authorization to see or use the contents of the drawer must always be obtained from the owner of the key.
In Japan, the legislative choice has been to provide a very thorough and stringent regulatory framework against the circumvention of technological protection measures. Both devices (including a set of parts of a device that can be easily assembled) and programs having a principal function for the circumvention of technological protection measures used to protect copyright, are prohibited. Subject to special rules, an act of circumvention that makes a work vulnerable to being reproduced is proscribed.
In Australia, the Copyright Amendment (Digital Agenda) Bill does not proscribe the act of circumvention, but makes it illegal to manufacture or trade in devices that circumvent "effective technological measures". It also makes it illegal to provide services for circumventing such measures. The definition of "effective technological measures" is fairly narrow, including only copy control mechanisms and mechanisms that provide access to a work through an access code or process.
The range of provisions adopted reflects the flexibility of the WIPO treaty requirements, but also suggests that there is no clear sense of what impact technological measures will have on copyright legislation. Although the US DMCA entered into force in 1998, the entry into force of prohibitions against unauthorized access to technologically-protected works was suspended for two years. This allowed the US Copyright Office to assess and address the potential impacts of the legislation in the context of a rule-making process. The DMCA also instituted regular three year reviews to provide an ongoing mechanism to measure impacts. The provisions are now in force along with exceptions developed through the rule-making process.
Proposals
Domestically, some copyright stakeholders have indicated that in the absence of a prohibition against the manufacture and traffic in circumvention devices, would-be infringers can legally access the means that enable infringement. With respect to the possibility of sanctioning acts of circumvention alone, these stakeholders have also expressed the concern that attempts to seek legal recourse on the basis of such acts are costly and may not always be effective in providing a strong deterrent to infringement in a globally interconnected world.
The departments acknowledge the concerns of these copyright stakeholders, but must consider these concerns within the framework of Canadian copyright law, where certain uses of works and limitations on copyright protection are recognized as serving legitimate and important public policy objectives. Such limitations are evidenced by the finite term of copyright protection, the fair dealing provisions and the exception provisions. These elements of our copyright law have been the outcome of extensive debate, consultation, jurisprudence and legal obligation, both domestically and internationally. Any attempt to affect that balance may require a reconsideration of the current extent of the exceptions provisions.
The departments have considered the possibility of restricting or prohibiting the traffic in circumvention devices, while at the same time permitting devices that have, as their primary purpose, an activity that qualifies as legitimate, such as the enjoyment of an exception or access to material in the public domain. The difficulty is that devices which are suited to infringing uses are, by and large, equally suited to non-infringing uses. For example, a device used to circumvent a measure that prevents unauthorized copying will not distinguish between materials that continue to benefit from copyright protection from those that have fallen into the public domain.
Under these circumstances, the departments question whether it is possible to establish a legal framework which, on the one hand covers virtually all activities that undermine the use of technological measures, but at the same time continues to reflect the policy balance currently set out in the Act. Such a change in the Copyright Act could potentially result in a new right of access, the scope of which goes well beyond any existing right, and would represent a fundamental shift in Canadian copyright policy. It could serve to transform a measure designed for protection into a means of impeding legitimate uses. In essence, a change of this nature would be tantamount to bringing within the realm of copyright law, matters (e.g., restrictions on use) which may be more properly within the purview of contract law. Given the rate at which the technology underlying protection measures is changing, it is difficult, under present circumstances, to evaluate the public policy implications of such a step. Perhaps the role of technological changes warrants a careful study to examine what will be the dimensions of the intersection of anti-circumvention measures with the current Act. >>
<< SIGN THIS IF YOU OPPOSE! GOGOGOGOGO! >>
Done - those Hollywood b@stages!!! I want to keep my home 'puters!!!
I know this issue goes beyond computers, but lets just look at computers and illegal movie downloads for a moment.
If your concered about continuing to enjoy downloading DIvX's or MP3's, I can assure you that if this law where to evnetually become law, trying to build copy protection into hardware, you will continue to enjoy your illegal downloads. The nice thing about computers is ultimatly, you can program a computer to emulate ..well..another computer. Sure hardware protection makes it a tiny a bit more tricky if done right, but a computer has to be able to play homemade media and thus there is unprotected channels that emulators can make use of. ahh, you say, they will encrpyt codes directly into the media file that the hardware will look for. Sure, do we forget how DVD's where supposed to work. ahh you say, the DeCSS guy got a little lucky due to weak protection of the keys, this is true, but there is nothing reverse engineering can't solve in computing so long as there is a will.
Anyway, i would not worry about this, this kinda stuff has been tried humpteen times already, it never works. If the movie people want to make people pay for a movie, they might want to consider what made theatres so attractive many years ago, big picture and big sound! Some people have somewhat big picture now, and alot of people have better sound than the theatre these days, sure it's not 100 channel sound, but the quality is better and louder. I know I would be glad to pay to watch a movie in the theatre if I could view/listen to it better than i can at home. Turn up the friggin volume in the theatres you dimwitts, stop listening to those old foogies who complain it's to load, seriuosly. And while your at it, maybe get some better speakers, 100 channels of poor sound quality still means poor sound quality. And while this is not actually the MPAA's fault, something has got to be done about those un-ethical prices for some snacks. When i do happen to goto a theatre these days, it's always way under 25% full, and no, not all of those few hundred people decided to download it off the internet that night. most of them decided to entertain them selves in a more cost effective way of course.
Anyway movie people... your bussiness is not making movies, but creating consummer desire to purchuse your product, stop whinnning and get back to bussiness, your complaining like a bunch sterotypical communists. Actually, i have far more respect for communisism than the MPAA and -some- entities that reside in the US goverment. You wanna try to protect your work, fine with me, but keep your hands off my system, not because I wanna rip you off, but i don't want my machine turning into some AOL ghetto, A enivietable side effect of when we are all forced to use Approved software, and you know who will step up to the plate to deleiver this fine crap-ware, the likes of Real-Player, AOL, etc. not that I am worried, I will be the first to donate my time to writting the code to defeat your lame attempt if you should get your way.
If your concered about continuing to enjoy downloading DIvX's or MP3's, I can assure you that if this law where to evnetually become law, trying to build copy protection into hardware, you will continue to enjoy your illegal downloads. The nice thing about computers is ultimatly, you can program a computer to emulate ..well..another computer. Sure hardware protection makes it a tiny a bit more tricky if done right, but a computer has to be able to play homemade media and thus there is unprotected channels that emulators can make use of. ahh, you say, they will encrpyt codes directly into the media file that the hardware will look for. Sure, do we forget how DVD's where supposed to work. ahh you say, the DeCSS guy got a little lucky due to weak protection of the keys, this is true, but there is nothing reverse engineering can't solve in computing so long as there is a will.
Anyway, i would not worry about this, this kinda stuff has been tried humpteen times already, it never works. If the movie people want to make people pay for a movie, they might want to consider what made theatres so attractive many years ago, big picture and big sound! Some people have somewhat big picture now, and alot of people have better sound than the theatre these days, sure it's not 100 channel sound, but the quality is better and louder. I know I would be glad to pay to watch a movie in the theatre if I could view/listen to it better than i can at home. Turn up the friggin volume in the theatres you dimwitts, stop listening to those old foogies who complain it's to load, seriuosly. And while your at it, maybe get some better speakers, 100 channels of poor sound quality still means poor sound quality. And while this is not actually the MPAA's fault, something has got to be done about those un-ethical prices for some snacks. When i do happen to goto a theatre these days, it's always way under 25% full, and no, not all of those few hundred people decided to download it off the internet that night. most of them decided to entertain them selves in a more cost effective way of course.
Anyway movie people... your bussiness is not making movies, but creating consummer desire to purchuse your product, stop whinnning and get back to bussiness, your complaining like a bunch sterotypical communists. Actually, i have far more respect for communisism than the MPAA and -some- entities that reside in the US goverment. You wanna try to protect your work, fine with me, but keep your hands off my system, not because I wanna rip you off, but i don't want my machine turning into some AOL ghetto, A enivietable side effect of when we are all forced to use Approved software, and you know who will step up to the plate to deleiver this fine crap-ware, the likes of Real-Player, AOL, etc. not that I am worried, I will be the first to donate my time to writting the code to defeat your lame attempt if you should get your way.
Someone needs to give the government a demonstration. It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to protect music.. No matter what music has to be decrypted so you can hear it. Show the GOV then you can put any kind of CD into a computer run a cable from the speaker out to the microphone or line in and hit play and record. Duplicate copy. What is the GOV going to do, eliminate audio in on computers? Theres are very large legitamate audience for this feature.
- Mike
- Mike
Is it just me, or do all of the tech companies have the perfect way to cripple this. Whats the bet that most senators are using an intel CPU etc. With a bit of tinkering with their documentation, you could block certain people using computers.
Also, with open source, wont that kill off most servers on the planet?
Also, with open source, wont that kill off most servers on the planet?
Two updates (for anyone who still reads this thread 
):
Fox News is running an editorial slamming the SSSCA and Senator Hollings...it's good to see the mainstream press getting into the fray (though I still hate Fox for cancelling Futurama)
I also received an email from an AT user named Fenix (who I guess is banned) who wanted me to post his input:
<< OK if they make all our computers illegal because of their incompentnece
then thast real sad. We are the leading edge in technology and we the gamers
and programmers are tomorrows future. All that is going to happen if they
pass this is that America is goin to become more of a communist country.
This is a travisty and shouyld not even be considered. If they take my
computer away or make it illegal then they better pay ME to get a new one.
Especially since I just bought a new puter. All I can say is *uck off
congress worry about more important subjects and let us have our pc freedom.
Im out...
FeniX >>
):Fox News is running an editorial slamming the SSSCA and Senator Hollings...it's good to see the mainstream press getting into the fray (though I still hate Fox for cancelling Futurama
)I also received an email from an AT user named Fenix (who I guess is banned) who wanted me to post his input:
<< OK if they make all our computers illegal because of their incompentnece
then thast real sad. We are the leading edge in technology and we the gamers
and programmers are tomorrows future. All that is going to happen if they
pass this is that America is goin to become more of a communist country.
This is a travisty and shouyld not even be considered. If they take my
computer away or make it illegal then they better pay ME to get a new one.
Especially since I just bought a new puter. All I can say is *uck off
congress worry about more important subjects and let us have our pc freedom.
Im out...
FeniX >>
Very interesting thread here.. Governmentally, I'd like to throw in a few tidbits..
Communism is not what was taking place in the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was simply a totalitarian plutocracy using the propogandized mask of a socialist governemt. The irony of the term communism is that it refers to an almost extinct form of pre-industrial society. The Arawak indians near Bermuda that Columbus massacred for gold are by all recorded accounts from the crew journals, an example of a communist society. These societies tend to not wear clothing, they do not horde capital, they do not create contracts of marriage or land. They do not attempt to control the flow of a life-dependant regenerative resource. While there are many aspects of communism which are idealized, it is a social system that arises in very geographically isolated regions of abundance. There was never enough selective pressure on the Arawaks on their obscure island to develop the technology of trust violation and resource manipulation as a tactic of survival. They were not prepared for the west, and quite frankly, the west was not prepared for them. Part of the ideology of the west charachterized them as heretics and sinners, even though you couldn't have found a more Eden-like society if you tried. It is hard to explain how nudity is not pornography to those who have crossed that line. Pornography is a resource, nudity is not.. outlawing nudity assures that the resource of pornography will be maintained. That is an example of the wests inclination to control and exploit a regenerative resource for the sake of cultural meaning.
Someone remarked about how South Carolina could elect such a senator. It strikes me as odd that a computer-tech based forum doesn't aknowledge the outright non-transparency of South Carolina's voting system. 100% of all those precincts are using privitized source that not even the Secretary of state has access to (that's the highest elected official that has ever tried to veiw it through the court system). These systems, besides sharing the same source, also share the same network, connected by two-way modems to satellites. The entire Florida scandal was not about machines that need updating, it was the silent scandal that has been an undercurrent in America since computerized vote _counting_ came on to the scene about 40 years ago. It is now very well known by the governments own internal investigations and by court testimony of highly respected computer experts, that the only transparent method of vote counting is faster, cheaper than the one currently in use. It is to use a paper ballot marked with indelible ink - to which a 10 digit identification code for that ballot and it's selections gets torn off as a reciept for the voter.
The votes are then posted in numerical order by their 10 digit codes, and the voter matches it with their reciept.
The vote/counter ratio in the U.S. would have all ballots counted by hand issue a definitive result 3 hours after the polls closed, significantly less time than our last election counting cycle. The senate has turned down every suggestion issued by the very body it organizes to observe the voting process in America. To be quite blunt, your votes haven't counted in a long time. Every court and political body decision in the last 40 years has only spread computerized counting and protected the source of these machines. The message blasted to veiwers over the 2000 election in America was two-fold. Hand counts are less accurate than computer counts (the totals are supposed to be posted at the precinct for a month after elections; most precincts cannot do this anymore, and even have laws forbidding these postings.. as the right to accuracy is abdicated to VNS.. the system that argued for the satellite network of voting machines.. the votes are carted out of your precinct to a centralized location in the state and counted in locked/armed security facilities that do not permit cameras of any form).
Point number two was: Now we all know that in America the vote process is truly intact, for in this scenario _every_ vote was counted. Basically, the idea that our system is intact and running at optimal integrity for the election process. Joseph Stalin was attributed as saying offhand that: " those who cast the votes decide nothing, those who count the votes decide everything."
This is just political philosophy 101 however, and not particularly profound, except in that people are so dumbed down to the process, that they think more 'advanced' computer systems will solve the problem, they get to foot the bill to upgrade the voting network via a bill passed in congress under the auspices of the 'election scandal' in Florida.
America is quite clearly a totalitarian plutocracy using the propogandic mask of a republic (though amazingly still, people in the news like to talk about our _democracy_ .. you can't lie any more than this - as a democracy and a republic are vastly different in state definition, and we are framed 'in theory' as a centrally determined (the caucus system) contitutional republic).
America has done an outstanding job of making the meaning of terms meaningless, by inverting and distorting everything from repiblic, communism to democracy. Calling the most idealized form of government the most evil, by changing the definition, and attributing that evil to a country that was simply another totalitarian plutocracy like our own. The Soviet Union collapsed because it was more difficult to export jobs out of a country which was using a socialist mask for its Plutocracy.. it is actually hypocritical. In a 'democracy' there is nothing hypocritical about exporting jobs out of the U.S. In fact, democracy is a convenient mask in that it has no hypocracy constitutionally, except that the people vote (not that those votes are counted, counted accurately, published if indeed they are counted accurately, being the only votes taken into consideration.. etc..). Anyways, the Soviet union collapsed because it literally couldn't afford to exist, when we drafted NAFTA and GATT. We were exporting our jobs to Veitnamese working for a dollar a year, when 'free-trade' opened up, we literally cleaned house on the global economy. I believe this was a result of both short-sightedness of the Soviets, complications in regard to the political mask of socialism, and simple morality issues (we're not exporting our jobs). Our decision to violate trust, as in all western instances of history, led to our control of yet another resource.
Our constitution was so poorly framed (except for the corperate certificate laws being owned by the public .. long since recinded) that it is completely unworkable as a social contract.. it literally must be torn to shreds and rewritten to even resemble a democracy or even a republic. There are no political sides when it comes to the economy, democrats, republicans, 'independants', green-partiers, and libertarians.. even anarchists (humanists are the only exception, but there's a lot of differences there) .. all of these parties agree we should export jobs and drive down wages in the U.S. A totalitarian plutocracy is not the same as an ideated annihilist govenment (kill everything except us).. totalitarian misleads people, because they fail to understand that many of the actions they believe a totalitarian government would commit, America doesn't commit. America has 280 million citizens and 100 million registered firearms out there. Think about that. We are not the easiest country to pull a fast-one on. After the school shooting movies on the news (the shootings were real, the shooters were not lone-gunners so to speak), the test established that Americans are not quite yet ready to have the 2nd amendment revoked.. Charlton Heston did however manage to get lots of names for the database when the time comes to pass.. the sole function of his NRA infomercials. Also, for the nationalist stability required to maintain a peak plutocratic environment.. there must exist buffer classes between wealthy and poor, who see themselves as wealthy. This type of class is very prevelant in the U.S. Almost anyone with a T.V. considers themselves wealthy enough to not 'rock the boat', or that there is even a boat to rock.
-Justhink
It takes an average of 30 seconds to slip into an alpha state, bypassing the logical centers of the brain when one is exposed to television.
Communism is not what was taking place in the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was simply a totalitarian plutocracy using the propogandized mask of a socialist governemt. The irony of the term communism is that it refers to an almost extinct form of pre-industrial society. The Arawak indians near Bermuda that Columbus massacred for gold are by all recorded accounts from the crew journals, an example of a communist society. These societies tend to not wear clothing, they do not horde capital, they do not create contracts of marriage or land. They do not attempt to control the flow of a life-dependant regenerative resource. While there are many aspects of communism which are idealized, it is a social system that arises in very geographically isolated regions of abundance. There was never enough selective pressure on the Arawaks on their obscure island to develop the technology of trust violation and resource manipulation as a tactic of survival. They were not prepared for the west, and quite frankly, the west was not prepared for them. Part of the ideology of the west charachterized them as heretics and sinners, even though you couldn't have found a more Eden-like society if you tried. It is hard to explain how nudity is not pornography to those who have crossed that line. Pornography is a resource, nudity is not.. outlawing nudity assures that the resource of pornography will be maintained. That is an example of the wests inclination to control and exploit a regenerative resource for the sake of cultural meaning.
Someone remarked about how South Carolina could elect such a senator. It strikes me as odd that a computer-tech based forum doesn't aknowledge the outright non-transparency of South Carolina's voting system. 100% of all those precincts are using privitized source that not even the Secretary of state has access to (that's the highest elected official that has ever tried to veiw it through the court system). These systems, besides sharing the same source, also share the same network, connected by two-way modems to satellites. The entire Florida scandal was not about machines that need updating, it was the silent scandal that has been an undercurrent in America since computerized vote _counting_ came on to the scene about 40 years ago. It is now very well known by the governments own internal investigations and by court testimony of highly respected computer experts, that the only transparent method of vote counting is faster, cheaper than the one currently in use. It is to use a paper ballot marked with indelible ink - to which a 10 digit identification code for that ballot and it's selections gets torn off as a reciept for the voter.
The votes are then posted in numerical order by their 10 digit codes, and the voter matches it with their reciept.
The vote/counter ratio in the U.S. would have all ballots counted by hand issue a definitive result 3 hours after the polls closed, significantly less time than our last election counting cycle. The senate has turned down every suggestion issued by the very body it organizes to observe the voting process in America. To be quite blunt, your votes haven't counted in a long time. Every court and political body decision in the last 40 years has only spread computerized counting and protected the source of these machines. The message blasted to veiwers over the 2000 election in America was two-fold. Hand counts are less accurate than computer counts (the totals are supposed to be posted at the precinct for a month after elections; most precincts cannot do this anymore, and even have laws forbidding these postings.. as the right to accuracy is abdicated to VNS.. the system that argued for the satellite network of voting machines.. the votes are carted out of your precinct to a centralized location in the state and counted in locked/armed security facilities that do not permit cameras of any form).
Point number two was: Now we all know that in America the vote process is truly intact, for in this scenario _every_ vote was counted. Basically, the idea that our system is intact and running at optimal integrity for the election process. Joseph Stalin was attributed as saying offhand that: " those who cast the votes decide nothing, those who count the votes decide everything."
This is just political philosophy 101 however, and not particularly profound, except in that people are so dumbed down to the process, that they think more 'advanced' computer systems will solve the problem, they get to foot the bill to upgrade the voting network via a bill passed in congress under the auspices of the 'election scandal' in Florida.
America is quite clearly a totalitarian plutocracy using the propogandic mask of a republic (though amazingly still, people in the news like to talk about our _democracy_ .. you can't lie any more than this - as a democracy and a republic are vastly different in state definition, and we are framed 'in theory' as a centrally determined (the caucus system) contitutional republic).
America has done an outstanding job of making the meaning of terms meaningless, by inverting and distorting everything from repiblic, communism to democracy. Calling the most idealized form of government the most evil, by changing the definition, and attributing that evil to a country that was simply another totalitarian plutocracy like our own. The Soviet Union collapsed because it was more difficult to export jobs out of a country which was using a socialist mask for its Plutocracy.. it is actually hypocritical. In a 'democracy' there is nothing hypocritical about exporting jobs out of the U.S. In fact, democracy is a convenient mask in that it has no hypocracy constitutionally, except that the people vote (not that those votes are counted, counted accurately, published if indeed they are counted accurately, being the only votes taken into consideration.. etc..). Anyways, the Soviet union collapsed because it literally couldn't afford to exist, when we drafted NAFTA and GATT. We were exporting our jobs to Veitnamese working for a dollar a year, when 'free-trade' opened up, we literally cleaned house on the global economy. I believe this was a result of both short-sightedness of the Soviets, complications in regard to the political mask of socialism, and simple morality issues (we're not exporting our jobs). Our decision to violate trust, as in all western instances of history, led to our control of yet another resource.
Our constitution was so poorly framed (except for the corperate certificate laws being owned by the public .. long since recinded) that it is completely unworkable as a social contract.. it literally must be torn to shreds and rewritten to even resemble a democracy or even a republic. There are no political sides when it comes to the economy, democrats, republicans, 'independants', green-partiers, and libertarians.. even anarchists (humanists are the only exception, but there's a lot of differences there) .. all of these parties agree we should export jobs and drive down wages in the U.S. A totalitarian plutocracy is not the same as an ideated annihilist govenment (kill everything except us).. totalitarian misleads people, because they fail to understand that many of the actions they believe a totalitarian government would commit, America doesn't commit. America has 280 million citizens and 100 million registered firearms out there. Think about that. We are not the easiest country to pull a fast-one on. After the school shooting movies on the news (the shootings were real, the shooters were not lone-gunners so to speak), the test established that Americans are not quite yet ready to have the 2nd amendment revoked.. Charlton Heston did however manage to get lots of names for the database when the time comes to pass.. the sole function of his NRA infomercials. Also, for the nationalist stability required to maintain a peak plutocratic environment.. there must exist buffer classes between wealthy and poor, who see themselves as wealthy. This type of class is very prevelant in the U.S. Almost anyone with a T.V. considers themselves wealthy enough to not 'rock the boat', or that there is even a boat to rock.
-Justhink
It takes an average of 30 seconds to slip into an alpha state, bypassing the logical centers of the brain when one is exposed to television.
That is the best single post to AT that I have ever read. I agree 100% (cept I'm curious about the "lone gunners" bit)
Pornography is a resource, nudity is not.. outlawing nudity assures that the resource of pornography will be maintained. Fvckin' right!!!
It takes an average of 30 seconds to slip into an alpha state, bypassing the logical centers of the brain when one is exposed to television. I thought it was something like ten, but yeah, thirty works too.
Very enlightening Justhink. Since I'm Canadian I'm not as involved or educated when it comes to the details of the American government. I know enough to agree with you though about totalitarianism. The "this is communism" comments that I've been seeing in this thread have made me laugh because yeah, they are so skewed it's unreal. You're right about columbus and you're right about the Arawaks.
You should enable private messages and post an email address in your profile. I need to learn more about Russian history
Pornography is a resource, nudity is not.. outlawing nudity assures that the resource of pornography will be maintained. Fvckin' right!!!
It takes an average of 30 seconds to slip into an alpha state, bypassing the logical centers of the brain when one is exposed to television. I thought it was something like ten, but yeah, thirty works too.
Very enlightening Justhink. Since I'm Canadian I'm not as involved or educated when it comes to the details of the American government. I know enough to agree with you though about totalitarianism. The "this is communism" comments that I've been seeing in this thread have made me laugh because yeah, they are so skewed it's unreal. You're right about columbus and you're right about the Arawaks.
You should enable private messages and post an email address in your profile. I need to learn more about Russian history
<< That is the best single post to AT that I have ever read. I agree 100% (cept I'm curious about the "lone gunners" bit) >>
I'm also more curious about that year-long phenomenon of sensationalized school shootings. There are links to the lead beaureu investigator for the Columbine case and the kids involved, links that run prior to the actual shooting, which lead to omninous speculation and conspiracy. That entire year just wasn't 'right', and then to cap it off with Charlton Heston's NRA infomercials... it adds up more than mere chance would allow for. If you take a look at NRA sponsorship in regards to gun bills, it has actually done far more as an entity to impede the second amendment than to defend it. Some NRA sponsored bills have actually been voted down because of this.
<< Pornography is a resource, nudity is not.. outlawing nudity assures that the resource of pornography will be maintained. >>
Fvckin' right!!!
Emotionalism in the face of a self-explanitory statement. 'These people' who are in a position of vast capitol accumulation are just as human as you and I. Granted, they have cognitive dementia for committing hypocracies over suicide, but they cannot see this anymore than we would expect any mentally handicapped person to simulate their own condition through the eyes of another sentient being. Part of maturity in life is learning to accept that trust violation always wins for those caught in that mentality. Those who do not play/spar with trust/defence will always be vulnerable to those who do. No matter how moral (non-hypocritical) your integrity, a bullet in your head will prove you wrong to them, a bullet in their head will prove you wrong to yourself. That is the nature of the game. The nature of the game is maxxing out as much trust violation as possible without being caught.
Anyone who works for high tech, not just television, as you should well know, is subsidized by taxpayers to violate trust through the pentagons corperate subsidies. The irony is that people in the high-tech sector, senators and the like are the largest welfare recipients in the world. Some 'cracked out black lady' in east L.A. with 27 babies and all those welfare checks isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to your favorite republican candidate who abhors such 'welfare'. Yet the taxpayers keep an eternally bankrupt company like IBM in business when they are getting backtaxes from 1986 and combing out all their excess employees before the kicker comes without paying unemployment benefits to them. I may be interested in high tech, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for such immoral treatment of the prior workforce of such a company. 20 year high tech veterans being layed off with 6 months unemployment before a sabbatical and filtered 401k is a travesty.
<< It takes an average of 30 seconds to slip into an alpha state, bypassing the logical centers of the brain when one is exposed to television. >>
I thought it was something like ten, but yeah, thirty works too.
My research is 30 *shrug*. Sublimialism in visual and and reverse coding in audio messages are becoming more prevelant as well.. listen to some of the slurs in those commercial narrators articulations. Those cannot be done naturally, if you listen close you can hear that some of them are computer enhanced, the question arises when the slurs are a-rhythmic... there is not a valid advertising reason to have an a-rhythmic slur in a narration. 'I' would never be that sloppy (I'm a composer), and I'm sure that these people have, as a minimum, my ability in this regard. It's not the unnaturalness that is alarming.. that is voice enhancement, which we are used to and accept as a selling technique, a-rythmic slurs in parts of narrations are something altogether different. What was so important about _that_ slur, that it needed to be a-rythmic? Makes me wonder at least. FOX news is as CIA as a channel gets.. watching it will give you a clear impression of what types of techniques are considered optimal for message communication on a subliminal level. Watch the color and graphic schemes too, the camera angles and shifts. The speech patterns are fascinating on FOX news, as they really help one recompile the source of the research and it's findings for this discipline. It also provides a peek into the CSI/RAND philosophical/ethical atmosphere (what they choose to do with their findings). In that sense you can recompile their individual and collective indentured systems and begin reconstructing their training in life as well as their limitations.
<< Very enlightening Justhink. Since I'm Canadian I'm not as involved or educated when it comes to the details of the American government. >>
You should be, you're our largest experiment in prototyping more idealized social systems and the economic impact of those choices. You have a 'relatively' transparent voting process, less state division and nationalized healthcare. South America on the otherhand...
<< I know enough to agree with you though about totalitarianism. >>
Capitolism is a (resource) hording philosophy, much like certain forms of schizophrenic and autistically infected people will horde water in their bedrooms. Capitolism takes into account measures of defense into the production and distribution cost that allows resource accumulation. In Oregon, we currently have video poker, a scientifically engineered addiction device to bring in tax revenue. The write-off is a free statewide gambling recovery program that is an absolute farse, but serves as a buffer to give the system legitimacy and to keep it in tact. The only thing the tobacco lawsuits did was double the price of cigarettes to create a steady tax income and a lump sum for the general state fund, write-off is a half-assed ad campaign or an option to buy $50 chewing gum. This 'lawsuit' was a calculated taxation scheme, which required a little 'scandal' to impliment. We even got a movie to boot! In Oregon, no scandal was needed to throw in the poker machines, they just appeared one day. A totalitarian plutocracy _must_ take appearances into account, it is not easy to convince people that hording their work in your pocket is justifiable. Opinion polls are taken regularly to determine the mode of operation for aquiring more capitol in such a means that it will be cost efficiently safe to guard. For the most part, these techniques work, when they do not, you will see police action from the state on the population. WTO in Seattle is one of many examples in American history where this has required the state to reveal it's threshold of tolorence in listening to those who are taxed. It was illegal for 'honest' Abe to start taxation in the Civil War, as in the revolutionary war, government promises to those who enlisted were abandoned. After the Civil war was over, this illegal tax was never recinded. The WTO movement has yet to recieve media coverage for their opinions and cause. We do however get a loud message of what it means to follow that cause, for those who do understand the circumstance. It is natural that they would play on the 'communist' term, even though these people are either humanists or socialists.
Socialism is an attempt to harmonize the industrial revolution with the idea of communism (communism is pre-industrial).. the actual ideologies of the two are vastly different in scope and practice. Even funnier still is to call them anarchists, a state which needs more policing and surveylance (government) to be sustained than any currently known to humans. We actually live in anarchy, but to refine it from the actual state and institute the purity of the term would require humans to be monitered and shot by an outside policing force when they began to form social contracts of any kind, which would be all the time. A contrived state of anarchy in it's defined sense could never have evolved all the technology and capitol that 'anarchists' want the freedom to be able to use. Social contracts are a necessity for the conditions that produce technology. Farming is too advanced a technology for anarchist ideology.. by virtue of their ideology, they must be gatherers - or else live in a hypocritical system of corrupted anarchy, which is no different than the one currently in place, it just <in theory> shuffles the 'designated' owners of large stacks of capitol.. hopefully they will hit the jackpot in the shuffle. That is a far cry from anarchy, that's just pouting. Anarchy is the most extreme form of totalitarianism, and requires the _most_ structure and resource to maintain of all governmental forms. An anarchist would support the WTO more than they would protest against it.
The pressure to conform is immense, both from television and from CSI operatives in the public sector. If you do not conform, you will simply be relegated to a necessary poverty class to keep the system functioning.
<< The "this is communism" comments that I've been seeing in this thread have made me laugh because yeah, they are so skewed it's unreal. >>
Communism has been unlearned to a vast majority of the human population, and is basically a pre-insidstrial relic. Actually it is a pre-taxation relic.. which has roots much further back than the industrial revolution. Taxation corresponds with the evolution of deocracies and theocracies. The mono-theocracy of the west esnured the greatest control of tax revenue, and thus the greatest war machine capabilities. The technology advancement of the mono-theocracy from a poly-deocracy, made all the difference to the wests rise in power. The Bible (the wests quasi-constitution) is famous because of its capacity to generate taxable income, and is still a 3 trillion dollar staple to this very day.
Now-a-days, we have a much more advanced religion for funneling income to the central state; capitolism. Instead of having a book be an advertisement for a religion, the advertisement is itself the doctrine. Advertisement is the doctrine of capitolism, changing in real-time the indentured sytem when new holes are found, or new resources are invented. The Bible still helps a lot to this day.. as the primary nationalistic motto for the populace is to "believe in a power greater than oneself." It's one of those key-phrases that you will see media figures use to shame people, then they point to the Bible as a resource of wholesomeness to restore and replentish that aspect of what a 'good' person is; hopefully leading them to good ol' faithful, a church congregation itself.
<< You're right about columbus and you're right about the Arawaks.
You should enable private messages and post an email address in your profile. I need to learn more about Russian history
>>The rationalle behind killing the Arawaks was that they were sinners for being naked, they were raped tortured, humiliated and extinguished as an ethnicity in concentration mining camps for the sake of God and 'His' holy search for gold. The effect of a mono-theism on world history has been astonishing. Mentally handicapped people rode the technology all the way to the top, and are in power because nature deselects high level abstract reasoning abilities, in favor of memory recall and memory retention abilities. The faster the processing speed of an individual, the less likely they are to kill another being or violate their trust. Well.. nature doesn't work that way, hence the de-selection. Trust violation always trumps moral integrity, because moral integrity is about the intelligence of non-hypocracy; a capacity which those with low-abstract reasoning capabilities cannot process fast enough to reach a critical mass. They can however process different 'games', killing you or subjugating you physically - self-explainitory trust violation that even a school child can do with little effort. Mental superiority becomes indifferent to mental inferiority, but not the other way around.. that is why the physical becomes dominated by those with cognitive dementia. To attack them is to become them, to not attack them or humor their attack by defending yourself is the become their slave. It's the catch 22 of morality. Should I let a cognitively deficient person believe they are violating my trust or not? Does it make sense to yell and cry at a mentally handicapped person for having and living their life to the peak of their capability? What sense of anything is earned by judging your best qualities against those who are almost incapable of doing the process at all? The cognitively deficient will always subjugate when they cannot be seen or caught, the opposite will never do that even though their capacity to do so is greater. It is the child-like 'Napolean complex' of the mind, in the body of an adult. For me, that's just the way it is.. lots of people are mentally deficient in abstract processing speeds; I would rather look at life as is then seek to build a peer or admirer or enemy from the source-code with a system I can exploit. Conversion is a process of the religious, not the intelligent. It requires very little effort to convert someone, which is what those who violate trust fail to see when they take glory from their victories. This would be a self-referential post in that sense with infinite regress... conveying a message of conversion to admonish the act. The infinite regress opens up, because you can never conclude wether this is an attempt at conversion in a hypocritical or non-hypocritical sense. It actually splits into many infinite regresses, all of which become that much more boggling... Communication can really suck, when morality is considered! I guess that last sentence kinda sums up much of this thread...
-Justhink
Its why its important to vote for people who appoint conservative judges who will most likely uphold the consitution when hair-brained legislation like this is passed.
Signing an online petition is all well and good but if you realy want to make a difference contact your reprisentitives. preferably by snail mail or phone. Most important of all is to be an INFORMED VOTER. even when voting for the lesser of two evils you are still making a gradual improvment in representation. And also sending a message to the candidates for the next ellection.
I agree with the people who think the PATRIOT act is completly un-american.
I think the one time i was realy ashamed of being a republican was when they tried to pass a law to outlaw flagburning.
SEMPER FI
Signing an online petition is all well and good but if you realy want to make a difference contact your reprisentitives. preferably by snail mail or phone. Most important of all is to be an INFORMED VOTER. even when voting for the lesser of two evils you are still making a gradual improvment in representation. And also sending a message to the candidates for the next ellection.
I agree with the people who think the PATRIOT act is completly un-american.
I think the one time i was realy ashamed of being a republican was when they tried to pass a law to outlaw flagburning.
SEMPER FI
Emotionalism in the face of a self-explanitory statement.
I was agreeing with you, I'm not really sure I understand how you took that. Is there something 'wrong' with emotion? I was excited, because I strongly agree with that statement, and I assume that you are a male because (forgive me if I'm mistaken) you don't normally hear males say anything very revealing about porn. It seems that the male population would rather just leave it alone and enjoy it from time to time rather than think about it. Kind of like a bastard child or something.
We do however get a loud message of what it means to follow that cause, for those who do understand the circumstance. It is natural that they would play on the 'communist' term, even though these people are either humanists or socialists.
Yes. The masses don't know what it's about (the WTO riots, anti-capitalism, anti-globalization) yet they do know what will happen if they were to get involved. Seattle was not the only one. Quebec city and Genoa are another two examples off the top of my head. People have been killed at these things, by the police becuase they were dissenting.
I agree with the people who think the PATRIOT act is completly un-american.
And have you ever wondered how far the doublespeak really goes? This is a very big problem. One of the most crucial bills to pass in recent years is a blatant example of doublespeak.
The pressure to conform is immense, both from television and from CSI operatives in the public sector. If you do not conform, you will simply be relegated to a necessary poverty class to keep the system functioning.
Agreed, and you can see it in action too if you look.
So yeah, please email me if you don't want to post your own email addy. I'de like to talk more.
I was agreeing with you, I'm not really sure I understand how you took that. Is there something 'wrong' with emotion? I was excited, because I strongly agree with that statement, and I assume that you are a male because (forgive me if I'm mistaken) you don't normally hear males say anything very revealing about porn. It seems that the male population would rather just leave it alone and enjoy it from time to time rather than think about it. Kind of like a bastard child or something.
We do however get a loud message of what it means to follow that cause, for those who do understand the circumstance. It is natural that they would play on the 'communist' term, even though these people are either humanists or socialists.
Yes. The masses don't know what it's about (the WTO riots, anti-capitalism, anti-globalization) yet they do know what will happen if they were to get involved. Seattle was not the only one. Quebec city and Genoa are another two examples off the top of my head. People have been killed at these things, by the police becuase they were dissenting.
I agree with the people who think the PATRIOT act is completly un-american.
And have you ever wondered how far the doublespeak really goes? This is a very big problem. One of the most crucial bills to pass in recent years is a blatant example of doublespeak.
The pressure to conform is immense, both from television and from CSI operatives in the public sector. If you do not conform, you will simply be relegated to a necessary poverty class to keep the system functioning.
Agreed, and you can see it in action too if you look.
So yeah, please email me if you don't want to post your own email addy. I'de like to talk more.
<< Emotionalism in the face of a self-explanitory statement.
I was agreeing with you, I'm not really sure I understand how you took that. Is there something 'wrong' with emotion? I was excited, because I strongly agree with that statement, and I assume that you are a male because (forgive me if I'm mistaken) you don't normally hear males say anything very revealing about porn. It seems that the male population would rather just leave it alone and enjoy it from time to time rather than think about it. Kind of like a bastard child or something. >>
This statement was one of the most axiomic in the post, like saying:
if you add two objects to two objects you get two more objects than the original two objects. You can imagine that it must seem odd to see something like, NO Fr*&^!!!! 'in SH!T MAN !!SOOO.. TRUE!! WHOA DUDE! , as a response =) I am indeed male, 25 years.
<< We do however get a loud message of what it means to follow that cause, for those who do understand the circumstance. It is natural that they would play on the 'communist' term, even though these people are either humanists or socialists.
Yes. The masses don't know what it's about (the WTO riots, anti-capitalism, anti-globalization) yet they do know what will happen if they were to get involved. Seattle was not the only one. Quebec city and Genoa are another two examples off the top of my head. People have been killed at these things, by the police becuase they were dissenting. >>
There are so many ideas that would be the logical expression of communication on the medium of telecommunications, that are not being expressed at all; or if they are expressed it is as a misdefining of the term. It is rational to conclude that fear can be the only explanation of such basic defining of common terms.. like vote transparency and political orientation definitions.
The only holiday worth celebrating in America is the voting process. Every American should have a week off of work and school to be taught and trained on what transparency is to maintain a constitutional republic and the warning signs of a body attempting to obscure the process.
Also, they should have that time to reveiw the issues and the candidates and draft legislation/bills. It is an embarassment to have a president not do their job. Every president since Johnson has not done their job in ensuring transparent voting. The survival of the state is meaningless to democratic minded people, because we currently do not live in a state which can be defined through the democratic lineage. Don't let the media shame you on your lack of compliance with their veiws, your apathy, your dissent; the voting process is non-transparent, which is why you even _have_ those feelings in the first place. The only job Bush has right now is to make our election process transparent; that's it. Seriously, _that_is_it_ NOTHING else; the guy literally has _no_ other function to perform for the people of the U.S. If he cannot even address the issue, he is an embarassment to history and to the evolution of the human species; he should be fired from his job immediately. He is doing the very opposite of his job description, as have many presidents before him. He is a logical and moral abhorration. Everything uttered from his mouth and all actions undertaken by him for every day of his job, no matter the circumstance _including the Trade-Center crashes_, is smoke and mirrors if he does not do everything in his power to intitute a transparent voting system, by first alerting the American public of the vast non-transparency of our computerized counting system, and immediately signing a voting holiday and tearing apart the computerized counting system. That is how current presidents are judged now, and it's amazing that so many Americans fail to realize it. Just turn on the T.V. and look at him speaking; if he is not speaking about vote non-transparency in America, he is committing treason at this very moment, because it is the only issue of importance to the state at this current time.. as has been the case for well over 50 years. People don't seem to get it through their heads that Bush only has _one_ simple task to perform to be not only an American president, but a great historical figure. He refuses to fulfill his duty, because quite frankly, he is a criminal. It would be more logical for him to commit suicide than be our president, but since he believes in Jesus as the savior, it is quite clear that the logical and abstract reasoning capacities of his brain have been disabled. He is a mentally retarded being, leading and following an entire cabinet of equally mentally retarded beings.
The idea of money being an issue is irrelevant on many levels:
1.) More Americans than not, would live on the street to have a transparent voting system.. that is a lot of capitol to use for such a system.
2.) Number one is not even necessary because the system is so cheap to install and maintain.
Don't let anyone in the government confuse the issue of their job requirement or provide excuses of why it cannot be performed. The job is clear and simple to excecute (as in: bring into being). Vote Transparency. Don't let the news try to convince you that it costs to much or that we have a great system already.. don't let them make you feel paranoid or guilty for wanting a transparent system, or talk you into believing that it's not possible.. because it is extremely possible. It is easily doable and American taxpayer support would be 100%.
<< I agree with the people who think the PATRIOT act is completly un-american.
And have you ever wondered how far the doublespeak really goes? This is a very big problem. One of the most crucial bills to pass in recent years is a blatant example of doublespeak. >>
How about a bill that has never been submitted, a vote-transparency bill. The double-speak is endless until such legislation gets penned into the constitution, as no party or individual affiliated with the government is actually involved in a democratic process.
<< The pressure to conform is immense, both from television and from CSI operatives in the public sector. If you do not conform, you will simply be relegated to a necessary poverty class to keep the system functioning.
Agreed, and you can see it in action too if you look.
So yeah, please email me if you don't want to post your own email addy. I'de like to talk more. >>
justhink@msn.com
It is hearing things like this that make me think... The time has come. Have we not come full circle on who we are now as the British were during the inception of this country? Our forefathers would roll over and over in their graves to see the ways in which we have butchered their perfectly written documents... Sure, we have reinterpreted "All men are created equal" and we have finally included women and and minorities. That is wonderful... but this is insane. We are that imperialistic Britain (the commodity not being land this time but money int he name of Capitlism). Our forefathers granted us the right to bare arms. It was to insure us the need to rejuvenate the democracy from time to time when it becomes corrupt much like the Brits of old. Unfairly this government has limited the weapons legally available to us in the name of making this country a safer place to reside. The crimes that they were trying to stop are perpetrated in majority and almost exclusively not by the people that register their weapons but by the people that do not have a crime tracing weapon through registration. We must bring about another revolution. This government where we have two choices of the people (LOL) and for the people (LMAO) is truly not by the people. With every vote: It's all one in the same... either way we vote, we get robbed monetarily or democratically by our only options. Its seems that with every passing day and every election we give up what this country was founded upon and is here for. Period! Stop the insanity! I might get banned or MIB might come take me away but at this point it seems there are two wars... one which has been building since before the Cold War (the one-minded corruption of or government) and the one today that is against our ideaistic way of life. Tough times are ahead for all! We need to renew the ideals that this fine and great country/institution was founded upon. Hopefully we have enough control to take back our government with voting as a form of revolution.
<< It is hearing things like this that make me think... The time has come. Have we not come full circle on who we are now as the British were during the inception of this country? Our forefathers would roll over and over in their graves to see the ways in which we have butchered their perfectly written documents... Sure, we have reinterpreted "All men are created equal" and we have finally included women and and minorities. That is wonderful... but this is insane. We are that imperialistic Britain (the commodity not being land this time but money int he name of Capitlism). Our forefathers granted us the right to bare arms. It was to insure us the need to rejuvenate the democracy from time to time when it becomes corrupt much like the Brits of old. Unfairly this government has limited the weapons legally available to us in the name of making this country a safer place to reside. The crimes that they were trying to stop are perpetrated in majority and almost exclusively not by the people that register their weapons but by the people that do not have a crime tracing weapon through registration. We must bring about another revolution. This government where we have two choices of the people (LOL) and for the people (LMAO) is truly not by the people. With every vote: It's all one in the same... either way we vote, we get robbed monetarily or democratically by our only options. Its seems that with every passing day and every election we give up what this country was founded upon and is here for. Period! Stop the insanity! I might get banned or MIB might come take me away but at this point it seems there are two wars... one which has been building since before the Cold War (the one-minded corruption of or government) and the one today that is against our ideaistic way of life. Tough times are ahead for all! We need to renew the ideals that this fine and great country/institution was founded upon. Hopefully we have enough control to take back our government with voting as a form of revolution.
>>
All fine and correct, but getting everyone united around this is pretty tough, and the few who at least try to force change on their own will simply be labbled "terrorists". Funny how the powers that be simply label something terrorist and we take the bate, hook line and sinker.
Here's a good read about how television effects(not a typo) culture.
smp, I totally agree with what you have been saying. It's funny because I have been struggling for the past few months to make sense of many of the issues that have been brought up in this discussion. And it's exactly that...a struggle. It's a mental struggle because it is only lately (post 9-11) that I have begun questioning many of the things around me, and being "programmed" since an early age hasn't made anything any easier. Anyway, it is good to hear other's thoughts because it helps to sort out my own.
"I'm not insane, I just think outside the box"
-Skinner2
smp, I totally agree with what you have been saying. It's funny because I have been struggling for the past few months to make sense of many of the issues that have been brought up in this discussion. And it's exactly that...a struggle. It's a mental struggle because it is only lately (post 9-11) that I have begun questioning many of the things around me, and being "programmed" since an early age hasn't made anything any easier. Anyway, it is good to hear other's thoughts because it helps to sort out my own.
"I'm not insane, I just think outside the box"
-Skinner2
Skinner2: I tried emailing you, but your address didn't work. Send me an email so I can resend this long ass email I just wrote up
<<
Can you believe that the RIAA is blaming "rampant piracy" on their 10% drop in revenue for 2001? Hm, did anything else happen in 2001 that could be attributed to consumers spending less? I wonder...
>>
Did you happen to catch the grammys? They had 4 teenagers spend aday downloading as many songs as they could off of provided high speed connections (probably gave them OC3's to exagerate the numbers), but they got something like 4,000 songs. Then they proceded to have a big whine fest about feeding their families and not being able to buy the 4th porche or add a wing on the 21 room mansion.
A 10% drop? I don't buy many CD's anymore because frankly they suck. All you get anymore is a rushed to the shelves album with 1 good song and a bunch of crappy filler not worth hearing. People would buy it if it was worth it... and might also buy it if more than a few cents of it was actually going to the people who wrote and played the songs. I also never could figure out why cheaper to make CD's are still priced higher than Tapes...
<< Two updates (for anyone who still reads this thread
):Fox News is running an editorial slamming the SSSCA and Senator Hollings...it's good to see the mainstream press getting into the fray (though I still hate Fox for cancelling Futurama
)>>
Fox News is simply the best and only News Channel left in my opinion.
"Fox News is simply the best and only News Channel left in my opinion. "
Are you sure? I mean they could brainwash you just as easy as ads eh......see that's why humans are brainwash cause they never know it...
Are you sure? I mean they could brainwash you just as easy as ads eh......see that's why humans are brainwash cause they never know it...
i have to disagree with the idea that most people don't know about wto/seattle, et al- they know, but do not understand. understanding requires a leap of faith (sorry kierkegaard) that what you understand has meaning, or could have meaning. if you remember the long gas lines and 'shortages' of yore, people knew but did not understand why we had lines and shortages. in fact, most people never looked to find out why... this was convenient for the oil companies and others who benefited.
people say they want cheap pricesw; yet they don't realizie that the cheap prices one, mean cheap labor, and two, almost no company reduces prices unless they can increase profits. our economy is not supply and demand- it is bait and switch. we get what we are told to get. the mere fact that even one child goes to bed hungry in america is a crime so immense that every political figure in america should be tried for treason. we ahve not created a more perfect union- the gulf widens every day between rich/poor. there is and can be no moral justiifcation for poverty.
virtually every major eligion in the world preaches sharing and peace and love and helping one another (love one another as you would love yourself), yet, hunger exists and deception and wars. i do not think that religion in and of itself is the culprit. christ/buddha/mohammed had great ideas. yet, ask someone if love is the answer? they will look at you kind of strange.
i would teach a class on morals/ethics and i would ask the class if we have ever had a society based truly on love- instead of punishing we love- and they always agree that there has been no such society. they also think that a love society is foolish and unworkable. i ask how many are christians/buddhists/jews/etcc. everyone raises their hand. when i ask how they can believe in christ when they say his ideas are foolish and unworkable. Silence. then i ask them to think about 'what if' what if we tried... yeah, i know it i corny, but as the beatles ang: all you need is love. but this country and this world is not allowed to love.
why?
because if we did the walls would come tumbling down. gates mansion would crash. no children would be hungry.
our war-based economy would be forced to implode. too many people would be asking for too much. janis joplin once sang freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose. what is there left to lose? and then i remember dylan singing: the clowns and the jugglers and clowns all did tricks for you, you never understood, it ain't no good, you shouldn't let others get your kicks for you.
our constitution, as badly written as it may have been, does contain some elemental truths, truths that we do need to carry with us and fight for at all costs: we are free and we have the right and responsibilty to defend that freedom. ew all must be like that stone in that hoary story about the stone that ripples the water. the more stones there are- the more ripples there will be, even if the ripple we produce is in our own home and neighborhood, it will spreaad. sometimes that ripple must become a wave. perhaps this is one of those times. perhaps there can be no other time perhapos if we wait, like prufrock, our moment's indecison will last a lifetime....
people say they want cheap pricesw; yet they don't realizie that the cheap prices one, mean cheap labor, and two, almost no company reduces prices unless they can increase profits. our economy is not supply and demand- it is bait and switch. we get what we are told to get. the mere fact that even one child goes to bed hungry in america is a crime so immense that every political figure in america should be tried for treason. we ahve not created a more perfect union- the gulf widens every day between rich/poor. there is and can be no moral justiifcation for poverty.
virtually every major eligion in the world preaches sharing and peace and love and helping one another (love one another as you would love yourself), yet, hunger exists and deception and wars. i do not think that religion in and of itself is the culprit. christ/buddha/mohammed had great ideas. yet, ask someone if love is the answer? they will look at you kind of strange.
i would teach a class on morals/ethics and i would ask the class if we have ever had a society based truly on love- instead of punishing we love- and they always agree that there has been no such society. they also think that a love society is foolish and unworkable. i ask how many are christians/buddhists/jews/etcc. everyone raises their hand. when i ask how they can believe in christ when they say his ideas are foolish and unworkable. Silence. then i ask them to think about 'what if' what if we tried... yeah, i know it i corny, but as the beatles ang: all you need is love. but this country and this world is not allowed to love.
why?
because if we did the walls would come tumbling down. gates mansion would crash. no children would be hungry.
our war-based economy would be forced to implode. too many people would be asking for too much. janis joplin once sang freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose. what is there left to lose? and then i remember dylan singing: the clowns and the jugglers and clowns all did tricks for you, you never understood, it ain't no good, you shouldn't let others get your kicks for you.
our constitution, as badly written as it may have been, does contain some elemental truths, truths that we do need to carry with us and fight for at all costs: we are free and we have the right and responsibilty to defend that freedom. ew all must be like that stone in that hoary story about the stone that ripples the water. the more stones there are- the more ripples there will be, even if the ripple we produce is in our own home and neighborhood, it will spreaad. sometimes that ripple must become a wave. perhaps this is one of those times. perhaps there can be no other time perhapos if we wait, like prufrock, our moment's indecison will last a lifetime....
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