The SSSCA and Silicon Valley: The computing industry stands up for consumer rights against media corporations

[erub]

I cannot honestly believe so many of you believe this will pass!! I think a lot of the foreigners here are just looking for a place to totally bash the United States, which is such a "horrible, repressive, bully" (no direct quote, but the general gist of what some are saying here).

You guys do realize that in order for a bill to pass, 50% of the Senate (which has a 1 vote Democratic majority), 50% of the House of Representatives (which has a Republican majority) both have to vote for it. Then the two bills must be reconciled together (usually they differ slightly), and then (i'm not sure about this) they have to be revoted in both Houses. Then the President has to sign it. If the President signs it, it goes into law; if he doesn't sign it, (vetos it), then 2/3 of each house must vote for it. I'm not sure which party is sponsoring this bill, as it appears wackos from both parties are sponsoring it.

The Supreme Court would then get to have their say on this matter; they would defintely declare it unconstitutional. You cannot say the SC are Hollywood influenced - they are appointed for life.

I will conclude by saying that I agree it is SCARY that a bill like this exists. But there's no way anything like this would happen in the United States.

 

[Rectalfier]

I have many good things to say about the US as well, but that is not the issue here. The American people are a proud nation, and rightfully so. However, I feel that not enough Americans exercise their rights to free speech, and speak out against their government. This is a very serious issue, and I think that every American should question why such a bill could be put forth. I think that an American who questions the validity of their government is a greater patriot than any American who blindy follows their leaders. It is your right to excercise the freedom of speech, and in doing so you are promoting the freedom in which your country stands for.

 

[smp]

I think that an American who questions the validity of their government is a greater patriot than any American who blindy follows their leaders. It is your right to excercise the freedom of speech, and in doing so you are promoting the freedom in which your country stands for.

Well said.

The media has incorporated "rebellion" and basically, you are a rebel if you ride a harley, or watch WWF, or listen to Slipknot... when really, you are just supporting the same corporate system, the only thing that there really is to rebel against.

 

[CSK]

If this law goes thru as suggested, without alternations, i am pretty sure U.S. will do everything to make it Global-law. EU will follow later and how about the rest of the World? Think of it. What U.S. and the World Bank have done if some 'evil' or non co-operating country have not followed the 'kind requests' of the U.S.... quite indeed, there's no more money from the World Bank to be lent to that country. I'd call that extorsion but..

I do agree the rights of the copyright owners, who doesnt. But the ways to protect them is way too hard.

Is every PC owner in the world a pirate? Against the U.S. will, you're terrorist? How many % of PC users *do* download pirated movies from the internet? Mom's and Pap's pirating "Bold and the Beautiful" Divx's from the net.. c'mon.

This is just a horrible Orwellian Plot to controll the people, their behaviour and buying habits. NOTHING ELSE.

Freedom? What's that.

C.

- Finland

 

[smp]

It's interesting that you bring up the world bank.

If this goes through, and I don't think it will, you can bet that countries who don't comply will be taken to the WTO court to defend themselves against "trade barrier" charges that the States will lay down.

 

[tolemac]

I have to agree with smp on this. Here's something that I feel should be required viewing/reading (like THAT'S gonna happen!)

Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent:

Manufacturing Consent explores the political life and times of the controversial author, linguist and radical philosopher, Noam Chomsky. As an outspoken critic of the press and one of America's leading dissidents, he has unrelentingly dissected how our much-acclaimed democratic freedoms often mask an irresponsible use of power. Shocking examples of media deception permeate Chomsky's critique of the forces at work behind the daily news. He encourages his listeners to extricate themselves from this "web of deceit" by undertaking a course of "intellectual self-defense."

Here's just a small quote from the video/book:

"There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed."

Don't let anyone else think for you.

 

[HouRman]

I don't see it kindling riots and becoming a mess. Here's how it would affect my life.....

I would buy a package system like a Dell, that's faster than my current home built one.
I would go to stores and Buy software that I use, and register it like a good boy.
I would not do anything that would anger people like piracy and dling mp3s.

On a negative note, it would greatly simplify the computer hobby which I love. But, it's not the end of the world... Maybe it would encourage people to get out more often. hehe

I don't feel worried though since the probable almost certain future is that this will never pass. Besides, say it does pass... What's gonna be the motive for the computer loving employees to support protected hardware when they are against it.

 

[KMHPaladin]

"Draft dated August 6, 2001. This bill has not been introduced as of September 7, 2001."

Am I missing something here?

 

[cheeto]

Wouldn't this bill just mean the companies that make the individual pieces of hardware must adhear to some secuirty standards. So that if this passed all hardware we buy to build our home pc must have some secuirty added by teh manufaturer for it to be sold in the USA. So then it would not effect home builders , except for an increased price for everyone. AM i missing something?

 

[Seidhepriest]

First they came for the Jews.
I didn't care.
Then they came for the Slavs.
I didn't care.
Then they came for the scientists.
I didn't care.
Then they came for the opposition.
I didn't care.
Now they came for me.
But it's too late to care.

- a retold and somewhat paraphrased Bertold Brecht

__________________________________________

Step #1 would be to raise hype. Anyone who has newsposting abilities at a site has to use them. Maybe someone would be able to pass a story at their local press? The more publicity, the better.

Step #2 would be... Wait, what exactly? It's all corrupt from the bottom and up. I doubt even a combination of TV, corporations, entertainment industries etc. boycott will have much influence. And you know why?

US is totalitarian; while everyone was enragedly watching the USSR and considering them the bad suppressive and brainwashing scapegoat, nobody noticed what was happening at home. As a certain Serb once said, "Back in the Soviet bloc times there was a lot of propaganda, but we knew it was propaganda. Now there's a lot of American propaganda, and nobody admits it is propaganda".

In the long term, the only action that'll work will be a complete breakdown of the empire a-la the USSR collapse. It will come sooner or later, just as the fascist Germany and the communist Russia didn't exist forever.
But for now it's time to organise the resistance - most importantly mental resistance. Most regular people are cattle - they'll react the way Brecht described. I'll tell you one bitter piece of truth: no matter how much noise we're making, it will hardly ever get to anyone that we're in the neo-totalitarian age. They're too accustomed to appearances, superficial looks and their own dumb hedonism to react... What this means is that the US, and possibly the rest of the world, will soon fall right into totalitarism, and it is inevitable because totalitarism is a reaction to a lack of belief, understanding and sensitivity. Totalitarism is a stage of cultural decay, not more, not less.

 

[Elledan]

<< So then it would not effect home builders , except for an increased price for everyone. AM i missing something? >>

Yes, every single system must have been 'verified', meaning that it must fulfill certain requirements. Since the verification occurs in the factory, you won't be able to build a system at home.

BTW, this verification would have to happen for every single PC, PDA, laptop, and just about any other electronic device used for storing data.

Compared to this, even the current system Apple uses offers much, much more freedom

 

[PC72]

SSSCA is not a really new idea...it is just the last step out of the shadows,
into the public eye...

...DRM technology is silently developed for quite some time now...companies
like Microsoft buy patents like 6,345,256..."Automated method and apparatus to
package digital content for electronic distribution using the identity of the
source content"...some text out of that:

"The second solution is to use secret, proprietary data formats and
applications software, or to use tamper-resistant software containers, in the
hope that the resulting complexity will substantially impede piracy. The third
solution is to modify the general-purpose computer to support a general model
of client-side content security and digital rights management."

...others work for years now on HDDs with digital rights management. It's an old
dog...that they named him SSSCA now and push him into the public simply means
that they saw their chance to win this battle riding the terrorist attack
wave... Of course it is all about money, as always...but I think they
miscalculated things...the terrorist attacks have been misused far too often in
the last months and that the "Office for Strategic Influence"....at least
officially...had to be closed, is a sign that there are still many politicians
who belive that it is not necessary to control everything...that this is not the
way of freedom and democracy...the same is true for SSSCA...if the US is still a
democracy then they won't win...

...so I simply hope that "I praise my country"-patriotism did not kill it yet,
that there are still enough "patriotism means taking responsibility and
constantly criticizing and improving things"-people left...can not do much more
then hope...from here in Europe...the US must do what the US must do...*sigh*


PC 8Dimensional.com

 

[fr0d]

Hmm.... economies of scale would mean that PC's would be cheaper, as there would be only one kind. This leads to more money to spend on..... movies and music.

I think I'll just stick to my legacy internet. Most of the stuff that comes out of Hollywood et. al. is rubbish these days anyway. It's not worth the cover price and they know it. The Internet is applying some _real_ economic factors into the entertainment industry, instead of the current cartel, and they don't like it one bit. Turn off the TV, and do something else instead. Do you think Linus Torvalds watches a lot of TV?

 

[CrustyAss]

Well they said that about the DMCA too....so instead of either holding your breath or not I suggest you get some pen and paper and write a furious, intelligently written letter to your representative that they MUST oppose this act if they want to have any chance of getting re-elected.

If you don't adamantly oppose this bill it's gonna be law before you know it.

I don't live in the states, so I can't have a proper say in this matter, but it will make digital life more difficult and more expensive for everyone around the world.

 

[DeadmanInc]

even if this did affect which it wont i'd be very pissed so his my suggestion for the sssca or whatever their name is,

they can take there little bill shine it up real nice twist that sum bitch sideways and shove it up there CANDY ASS!

 

[KyleMac]

I heard about this a long time ago (6 months+) and I laughed it off with my friends. Yet it's still around.

 

[vilord]

<< Well they said that about the DMCA too....so instead of either holding your breath or not I suggest you get some pen and paper and write a furious, intelligently written letter to your representative that they MUST oppose this act if they want to have any chance of getting re-elected.

If you don't adamantly oppose this bill it's gonna be law before you know it.

I don't live in the states, so I can't have a proper say in this matter, but it will make digital life more difficult and more expensive for everyone around the world. >>



I do live in the states, and I can say that at least in the past few years, furious intelligently written letters don't do a damn bit of good. We need to get the word out to those *NOT* reading our posts here on anandtech, to the regular saps that go to the movies and the malls every weekend. This may look like its just about computer hardware and software, but its really about control and censorship and businesses taking over the world. The WTO and NAFTA and the world bank are all about making everything global, and if laws like this get passed, and for all those disbelievers, without a huge amount of activism, something like this will get passed, any company or country or state that tries to curb the resulting higher prices or tries to sell non-verified components will be brought to the world court. A couple of years ago, california tried to enact a law that would require a reduction in sulfur emissions of cars, by reducing the use of an additive in gasoline. A company in Canada, the maker of that additive, sewed the state of California for any projected lost profits, and won, so California had to retract the law. If something like that can happen, something like this law can get passed too. Riots aren't the answer, but non-violent marches and activism and "letters to the editor" are.

just my 2 american pennies...

--vilord

 

[Nova02]

<< I cannot honestly believe so many of you believe this will pass!! I think a lot of the foreigners here are just looking for a place to totally bash the United States, which is such a "horrible, repressive, bully" (no direct quote, but the general gist of what some are saying here).

You guys do realize that in order for a bill to pass, 50% of the Senate (which has a 1 vote Democratic majority), 50% of the House of Representatives (which has a Republican majority) both have to vote for it. Then the two bills must be reconciled together (usually they differ slightly), and then (i'm not sure about this) they have to be revoted in both Houses. Then the President has to sign it. If the President signs it, it goes into law; if he doesn't sign it, (vetos it), then 2/3 of each house must vote for it. I'm not sure which party is sponsoring this bill, as it appears wackos from both parties are sponsoring it.

The Supreme Court would then get to have their say on this matter; they would defintely declare it unconstitutional. You cannot say the SC are Hollywood influenced - they are appointed for life.

I will conclude by saying that I agree it is SCARY that a bill like this exists. But there's no way anything like this would happen in the United States. >>



Well, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act is pretty unconstitutional to me and most other people, but it got passed regardless. This is scary stuff we're dealing with here. I wouldn't go off saying "oh, well there's no way in hell that bill will be passed," because it actually may. Greedy, careless corporations are slowly but surely getting more control than the consumer, and that's disturbing. It's sick that the good of research, development, people's careers, etc., are all being threatened so that the MUSIC and MOVIES industry can survive, out of all things! You have to look at the two and ask yourself which one is more important. The MPAA, RIAA and co. clearly aren't. If they failed, our economy would suffer, I'm sure. But if everything else did, I wouldn't be surprised if it had a serious, devistating impact on our economy. So you have to ask yourself, if the economy is going to hurt, where would you want it to, and where will it hurt more? Research and development for various things that revolve around various careers that help society in many many ways, or the music and movies industry?! Would you rather see a stupid mainstream record company go bankrupt, or a huge network that lets scientists research how to find a cure for a disease? Think about it.

Besides, I think these corporations are just paranoid about new ideas emerging and becoming popular. God forbid if the underground music scene becomes the mainstream in ten years, for example.

Also, did you know that it's been reported that an individual who researched the flaws and illegal aspects of the DMCA was threatened by the RIAA, thus preventing him from doing it? We aren't dealing with some by the book, decent individuals trying to pass a bill, we're dealing with cruel careless people who are attempting to break the law more than PC users do when they download MP3s or DIVX films.

Bottom line: Computer geek or not, this law will pave the way for others that will contribute to degrading the way we develop, share, and learn, and be successful. I don't want the movie industry controlling my life (as if they don't try to do that to people enough already), and neither should anyone else.

 

[vilord]

<< Hmm.... economies of scale would mean that PC's would be cheaper, as there would be only one kind. This leads to more money to spend on..... movies and music. >>



I tend to think that if there was only one kind of pc, the "neutered" digitally signed one, then costs would go up, simply due to lack of competition. If dell and hp and ibm and compaq are the only ones making the systems, just think what they could charge. Too bad the media has such control over the American people, otherwise the lack of competition in the sector could cause the fall of the high tech industry as a part of this capitolist system... i know that my system does what i need it to do, so i'm not upgrading And it will never be disconnected from this internet thing, no matter what they try to pull on us.

--vilord

 

[kgraeme]

<< I will conclude by saying that I agree it is SCARY that a bill like this exists. But there's no way anything like this would happen in the United States. >>



DMCA exists. This bill or the next like it will pass.

Digital Rights Management and Asset Management are the buzzwords in the tech industry right now. And for good reason. I work for a University, and even we are looking at how to ensure that material that people purchase isn't duplicated willy-nilly.

I absolutely do not support the DMCA or SSSCA or any other legislation that deprives people's legal rights and further corrupts copyright law. However, copyright law has two sides: 1. the right for the creator to protect their creation and to profit from it. 2. the people have certain fair use rights of copyrighted material for the purpose of a free society. Digital media makes it very hard to protect number 1 and makes people think that number 2 includes bootlegging. We need a system that takes both into account, and what we have isn't it. The DMCA is supposed to allow for fair use copying, but the courts have effectively killed that part of it. I am honestly afraid, as both a media consumer and a media creator, of the effects of SSSCA.

 

[danzig]

<< If the day comes where someone shows up at my door to conviscate(sp) my computer, they are going to find out real fast what 30 rounds from an sks feels like >>



Me too !

From the Rush show - Communist Senator Hollings sounds like Foghorn Leghorn

 

[Nova02]

<< DMCA exists. This bill or the next like it will pass.

Digital Rights Management and Asset Management are the buzzwords in the tech industry right now. And for good reason. I work for a University, and even we are looking at how to ensure that material that people purchase isn't duplicated willy-nilly.

I absolutely do not support the DMCA or SSSCA or any other legislation that deprives people's legal rights and further corrupts copyright law. However, copyright law has two sides: 1. the right for the creator to protect their creation and to profit from it. 2. the people have certain fair use rights of copyrighted material for the purpose of a free society. Digital media makes it very hard to protect number 1 and makes people think that number 2 includes bootlegging. We need a system that takes both into account, and what we have isn't it. The DMCA is supposed to allow for fair use copying, but the courts have effectively killed that part of it. I am honestly afraid, as both a media consumer and a media creator, of the effects of SSSCA. >>



I too am afraid. It's unfortunate that the internet has basically corrupted the music and movies industry, but life goes on. They're going way too far, and if this law is passed it's not going to be a pretty thing. You're that confident that it will? That's not good news to me. There has got to be a way we can get congress to realize the negative effects this stupid bill would have on our economy.

 

[MSNY]

There Bast*rds will have to pull my home Built computer from my cold dead hands !

Slowly but surely are rights are being taken away. If you think otherwise then you have been living in Afganistan for the last 6 years.

We need to stand up to this bill/ I've signed the online petition, you need to also.

My Rig Setup - DONT TOUCH THIS !

 

[kgraeme]

<< You're that confident that it will? That's not good news to me. There has got to be a way we can get congress to realize the negative effects this stupid bill would have on our economy. >>



I am absolutely confident that this or something like it will pass through Congress. Congress doesn't ask whether something is legal. Congress passes bills to create the law. After that, it is up to the consumer and the courts to determine whether the bill/law is actually illegal or not. In many cases it's too late, but sometimes it works.

Right now the music industry is facing a battering over some of their attempts. They recently settled a lawsuit about copy protected CDs. Phillips, joint creator of the CD format, is threatening to rescind their right to use the name CD to describe a silver disc with music on it if it has copy protection that corrupts Red Book standards..

The fundamental governing rule in life is that people are greedy and stupid. We can see the obvious greed and stupidity of the media industry here, but the consumer is greedy and stupid too. Every time we purchase a DVD we support the DMCA. Every time someone buys a new Palm or PocketPC with a SD slot (Secure Digital), we accept a technical implementation of SSSCA.

Digital copyprotection has been a tidal force since the digital age was introduced. The tide comes in and erodes the safe harbor of consumer protection and fair use. The tide will recede, but the erosion remains. As consumers, we become upset when it happens, but lax at trying to repair the damage. The SSSCA is like a hurricane looming to batter the consumer and the tech industry. On the whole we will survive, but the effects will be significant.

 

[thadood]

and just where in the hell are they gonna get billions of dollars to replace every f---n computer in the US... i sure would not replacing all 4 of my computers out of my pocket because some old guy wants to make us nazis... and im sure im not alone on this one