The spurn of the conservatives may lead Giuliani to victory?

[AnitaPeterson]

Here's how Der Spiegel sees it:

http://www.spiegel.de/internat.../0,1518,513006,00.html

I am particularly pleased with the incisiveness of this fragment: "America's right-wing Christians [...] spend much of their time praying and condemning anyone who lives outside what they consider the acceptable norm"

I find the article to be quite astute... a non-religious wacko Republican has better chances of winning votes than the Bible-thumpers (even those endorsed by Chuck Norris).

If it comes down to a showdown between Rudy and Hillary, I think the former mayor will get the upper hand over the former First Lady.... UNLESS Gore steps in and decides to run. I hope that's will be the case, providing that Gore is paired with someone like Obama for VP, instead of a freaking moron like Lieberman.

 

[Lemon law]

The religious right is not that big a voting block nationally, but its weight is about three times stronger as a core base of the Republican party. Which somewhat explains why the Republican party spawns only one social moderate. And at the same time spawns almost a dozen 08 Presidential candidates courting the religious right.

Since Guiliani is such a polarizing figure, I can't for the life of me figure out why other Republican moderates are not entering the race in 08.

But the religious right is somewhat going to be screwed if Guiliani wins the Republican nomination.

 

[magomago]

If our choice comes down to Rudy vs Hillary...the great American Experiment has truly failed.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The religious right is not that big a voting block nationally, but its weight is about three times stronger as a core base of the Republican party. Which somewhat explains why the Republican party spawns only one social moderate. And at the same time spawns almost a dozen 08 Presidential candidates courting the religious right.

Since Guiliani is such a polarizing figure, I can't for the life of me figure out why other Republican moderates are not entering the race in 08.

But the religious right is somewhat going to be screwed if Guiliani wins the Republican nomination.

Which is also true of the moveon orgie types and why the democrat candidates move so far to the extreme left. During primaries, each side caters to a core block of supporters who are always considered extremists by the otehr side.

Once the primaries are over, its a race back to the middle more or less on each side.

 

[theeedude]

The reality is that even now almost all polls are showing Hillary beating Rudy in head to head contest. And this is after decades of Hillary bashing, and before Hillary has even started working on taking apart Rudy's image.
Plus Hillary has the nomination stitched and can move towards the middle now, while Rudy has to pander to the Republican right, then flip flop to appeal to moderates. Hillary will make him pay a big price for that in the general election.
Plus GOP blocked healthcare for poor children, underscoring to the vast majority of this country that supports expanding SCHIP why we need a Democrat president.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I'm an agnostic myself and don't really care one whit about having religon in politics. However, people in here are viewing this through the P&N distorsion filter where they imagine that the demographics in here are a reflection of this nation as a whole. Nationally Christians make up the vast majority in this country. Many of them are not "bible thumpers" either. Even many of the Evangelicals are not bible thumpers. My next door neighbors are evangelical Christians and NEVER preach a word around me. We've spoken about it before and they've told me that if they thought I was interested that I would ask. So this whole stereotype about Christians, and right-wing Christians in particular, seems pretty mischaracterized. It's as ignorant as claiming that all Muslims must be terrorists.

For most people, a political candidate having some sort of religious faith is an absolute must. That's why there's never been an agnostic or atheist elected to the highest public office in this land. Even Hillary professes to be a person of faith and she uses that status, when it suits her. Christian voters will still determine the outcome of the next election.

So while everyone is doting on stereotypes about Christians, just keep the above in mind.

 

[theeedude]

I am an atheist, but I think people can learn moral lessons from Christian and other religious writings and fables without accepting them as dogma.
With that in mind, Hillary did a Christian thing and forgave Bill.
Rudy dumped his wife via news conference and his own kids don't support him.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: senseamp
I am an atheist, but I think people can learn moral lessons from Christian and other religious writings and fables without accepting them as dogma.
With that in mind, Hillary did a Christian thing and forgave Bill.
Rudy dumped his wife via news conference and his own kids don't support him.

Another interpretation of the Bill Clinton wandering pee pee scandals is that his wife would have more trouble riding his coattails into elected office if she left him.

If it comes down to a choice between Hillary and Rudy they might as well leave a loaded pistol in the voting booths so people can take the easy way out instead.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp
I am an atheist, but I think people can learn moral lessons from Christian and other religious writings and fables without accepting them as dogma.
With that in mind, Hillary did a Christian thing and forgave Bill.
Rudy dumped his wife via news conference and his own kids don't support him.

Another interpretation of the Bill Clinton wandering pee pee scandals is that his wife would have more trouble riding his coattails into elected office if she left him.

If it comes down to a choice between Hillary and Rudy they might as well leave a loaded pistol in the voting booths to people can take the easy way out instead.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: senseamp
I am an atheist, but I think people can learn moral lessons from Christian and other religious writings and fables without accepting them as dogma.
With that in mind, Hillary did a Christian thing and forgave Bill.
Rudy dumped his wife via news conference and his own kids don't support him.

...clearly being an atheist hasn't prevented you from believing in something completely ridiculous.

 

[glugglug]

I think this sentence from the second paragraph of that link needs some emphasis:

The figure brings to $196.4 billion the total requested by the administration for operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere for the budget year that started Oct. 1.

Keep in mind, we're only 3 weeks in to that budget year.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp
I am an atheist, but I think people can learn moral lessons from Christian and other religious writings and fables without accepting them as dogma.
With that in mind, Hillary did a Christian thing and forgave Bill.
Rudy dumped his wife via news conference and his own kids don't support him.

Another interpretation of the Bill Clinton wandering pee pee scandals is that his wife would have more trouble riding his coattails into elected office if she left him.

If it comes down to a choice between Hillary and Rudy they might as well leave a loaded pistol in the voting booths to people can take the easy way out instead.

Ain't that the truth.

Yes, I'd rather shoot myself than relive the "horrors" of the Clinton years. :roll:
When Clinton came into office, I came to this country with absolutely nothing and was living in my grandparent's garage eating gubment cheese. When he left, I had an Ivy League education and a high paying job lined up. Not going to lie, a lot of Democrat social programs helped me from point A to point B.
But I guess if my world view centered around what Clenis is doing at any given moment, I'd rather shoot myself.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp
I am an atheist, but I think people can learn moral lessons from Christian and other religious writings and fables without accepting them as dogma.
With that in mind, Hillary did a Christian thing and forgave Bill.
Rudy dumped his wife via news conference and his own kids don't support him.

Another interpretation of the Bill Clinton wandering pee pee scandals is that his wife would have more trouble riding his coattails into elected office if she left him.

If it comes down to a choice between Hillary and Rudy they might as well leave a loaded pistol in the voting booths to people can take the easy way out instead.

Ain't that the truth.

Yes, I'd rather shoot myself than relive the "horrors" of the Clinton years. :roll:
When Clinton came into office, I came to this country with absolutely nothing and was living in my grandparent's garage eating gubment cheese. When he left, I had an Ivy League education and a high paying job lined up. Not going to lie, a lot of Democrat social programs helped me from point A to point B.
But I guess if my world view centered around what Clenis is doing at any given moment, I'd rather shoot myself.

Not everyone is excited as you at the posibility of Hillary giving blowjobs to WH interns.

 

[StageLeft]

If Rudy wins it will indicate that we're near the end of days and frankly we will deserve it.

Not everyone is excited as you at the posibility of Hillary giving blowjobs to WH interns.

God, it's sad that you people continue to talk about the man's dick.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
If Rudy wins it will indicate that we're near the end of days and frankly we will deserve it.

Not everyone is excited as you at the posibility of Hillary giving blowjobs to WH interns.

God, it's sad that you people continue to talk about the man's dick.

It's not just us people. You guys erect (hehe) it too when you feel the need.

Besides, it was a joke. Hillary giving blowjobs? lol

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp
I am an atheist, but I think people can learn moral lessons from Christian and other religious writings and fables without accepting them as dogma.
With that in mind, Hillary did a Christian thing and forgave Bill.
Rudy dumped his wife via news conference and his own kids don't support him.

Another interpretation of the Bill Clinton wandering pee pee scandals is that his wife would have more trouble riding his coattails into elected office if she left him.

If it comes down to a choice between Hillary and Rudy they might as well leave a loaded pistol in the voting booths to people can take the easy way out instead.

Ain't that the truth.

Yes, I'd rather shoot myself than relive the "horrors" of the Clinton years. :roll:
When Clinton came into office, I came to this country with absolutely nothing and was living in my grandparent's garage eating gubment cheese. When he left, I had an Ivy League education and a high paying job lined up. Not going to lie, a lot of Democrat social programs helped me from point A to point B.
But I guess if my world view centered around what Clenis is doing at any given moment, I'd rather shoot myself.

Not everyone is excited as you at the posibility of Hillary giving blowjobs to WH interns.

Yes, those poor interns. Think of the interns people!

I don't really have anything against Bill. So what if he dipped his pen in the company ink regularly, doesn't bother me. He was fortunate to ride a good economy and not fuck it up so he gets remembered favorably by most. The majority of the "social programs" predate his presidency considerably. Hillary is however an entirely different ball of wax.

So the choice comes down to a two-faced hawkish Democrat who will attempt to tax us into oblivion for the sake of her pandering projects or an authoritarian nutjob who will probably further erode our diminishing constitutional rights and go to war with 1-3 more small nations.

I can barely contain my excitement.

 

[Pabster]

LMAO that Spiegel attacks the "Religious Right" and "Bible Thumpers" while overlooking the rise of Islamofasicsts and their "religion of peace" ...

If it were up to me, Religion would be removed 100% from Politics. I don't give a rat's ass what faith the candidate is - whether he goes to church or not - it has no bearing on my decisions.

As for Guiliani, time will tell.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: senseamp
With that in mind, Hillary did a Christian thing and forgave Bill.

Oh, please. :roll:

Their's is a perfect example of a career-oriented, partnership marriage.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Pabster
If it were up to me, Religion would be removed 100% from Politics.

Well, it was your party that went pandering to them. Not the other way around.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: senseamp
With that in mind, Hillary did a Christian thing and forgave Bill.

:laugh:

Everyone knows the Clinton "marriage" is nothing more than a union of political convenience. She couldn't survive politically had she divorced Bill, and the two of them together are stronger than either one would ever be alone.

I'm not sure if you actually believe the BS you write or you just live in a bubble.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Well, it was your party that went pandering to them. Not the other way around.

Pandering is disgusting, whether Religion or whatever. I certainly never went pandering to any religious nuts for votes :laugh:

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
I am particularly pleased with the incisiveness of this fragment: "America's right-wing Christians [...] spend much of their time praying and condemning anyone who lives outside what they consider the acceptable norm"

The left is not much different.

They may not pray, but they go around condemning anyone who lives outside of their norm or refuses to accept their lifestyle. Look at the environmental movement or the gay rights movement to see the left telling everyone else that they must accept their way of thinking.

Both sides are guilty of pushing their personal beliefs on others.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp
I am an atheist, but I think people can learn moral lessons from Christian and other religious writings and fables without accepting them as dogma.
With that in mind, Hillary did a Christian thing and forgave Bill.
Rudy dumped his wife via news conference and his own kids don't support him.

Another interpretation of the Bill Clinton wandering pee pee scandals is that his wife would have more trouble riding his coattails into elected office if she left him.

I think Hillary had to think about it long and hard ?Divorce Bill or run for President.?

Hillary?s whole life is one big long political consideration so it is easy to see why she stuck with Bill.

Go read the tale about Sock the cat or Buddy the dog to get an idea of the lengths Hillary and Bill will go through to reach their political goals.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't think any repub can win w/o the christian right. They've been the shock troops of the repubs for a very long time- they head the get out the vote effort, acting as drum beaters and barkers...

Dubya managed to inspire them and gain enough from the center to win in 2000, and exploited 9/11 ruthlessly to win again in 2004- along with using the usual coded phraseology of the fundies to hold 'em...

Rudy can't exploit 9/11 nearly so well, and his "values", particularly wrt the fundies' hot button issue of abortion, won't stand up to scrutiny... it'll be tough to take the center from Hillary, no matter how far left the usual suspects try to paint her... her voting record won't support the charge, at all...

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
I am particularly pleased with the incisiveness of this fragment: "America's right-wing Christians [...] spend much of their time praying and condemning anyone who lives outside what they consider the acceptable norm"

The left is not much different.

They may not pray, but they go around condemning anyone who lives outside of their norm or refuses to accept their lifestyle. Look at the environmental movement or the gay rights movement to see the left telling everyone else that they must accept their way of thinking.

Both sides are guilty of pushing their personal beliefs on others.

No, they aren't. Telling people that they have to accept your right to your personal beliefs is NOT the same as telling people they have to live by your personal beliefs. Anti-gay rights people are saying gays have to live by conservative social standards, pro-gay rights folks are simply saying that everyone has to accept gay peoples' right to do as they please. Both sides are asking things of the other, but I know you're not stupid enough to believe they are the same thing. I know you see some great sin in requiring people to accept your right to your own beliefs, but I would imagine that forcing everyone to LIVE by your beliefs is more invasive.

You might have more of a point with the environmental movement, but in your haste to make a political point, you seem to have compared anti-gay fanatics who scream about gay marriage to environmentalist wackos who scream about SUVs. I tend to agree that they you're all a bunch of brainless idiots, just from different sides of the political spectrum, but I'm surprised to hear you admit it.

I also think there are other good comparisons to be made...including perhaps one that you right-wingers can better understand. Gay marriage is a lot like gun ownership. It's a personal choice that has very little affect on others around you, yet people trying to save society insist on making you follow their view of what you should be doing. Gun nuts and gays aren't demanding anything unreasonable, just the right to live their lives how THEY want and make their own choices.