The sport that requires the most balance between team and individual skill?

EpsiIon

Platinum Member
Nov 26, 2000
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I obviously posted this thread with an agenda, so here it is:

It seems to me that no competitive sport requires more balance between team and individual skill than Ultimate Frisbee. At the competitive level, it is impossible to have a single player carry a team in any capacity. While in most other sports, good teamwork is always beneficial, it is not fundamentally necessary to win. Here's the breakdown:

Baseball: It is truly a joke to call this a team sport. You can mix and match any skilled players to make a winning team. Defensively, almost no communication is necessary as everybody knows what to do in almost every situation. Offensively, there is almost zero inter-teammate coordination required (other than "I'm going to pop it up (or bunt), so run at the right time" or "I'm going to steal a base, so don't swing away.")

Football: Close, but not quite. Most offensive play is scripted, minimizing the amount of dynamic communication required to be effective. Plus there's too much emphasis on the quarterback and his ability to make the correct decisions. An effective Ultimate team will never have a single handler.

Soccer and Hockey: More close ones. Probably the closest of them all. In fact, I'd have to say the difference between these sports and Ultimate in this respect is almost negligible. If it weren't for the fact that a single player can (theoretically) never pass the ball/puck, I'd say they were equal.

Basketball: Kinda close, but there's something fundamentally wrong when a single player can (virtually unaided) score 80 or 100 points in a single game.


Interestingly, in all of the above sports, either the emphasis is on individual skill or it is possible for a single player to move the playing object without any assistance. Neither of these holds for Ultimate.

Disagree with me? Have any other contenders? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
 

ShOcKwAvE827

Senior member
Jul 28, 2001
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I would have to say doubles table tennis is up there. You've got to be coordinated and have skill. 1 crappy player and you lose. For ultimate, you just don't pass to your crappy player.
 

chuckywang

Lifer
Jan 12, 2004
20,133
1
0
Baseball....Offense/Defense definitely require a combination of individual/team skills.

Offense:
Home Run = individual
Hit and Run = team
Sac Bunt = team
Sac Fly = team

Defense:
Diving Catch = individual
Pitching = individual
Double Play = team
Throwing a runner out = team
Outfield assists = team
 

SophalotJack

Banned
Jan 6, 2006
1,252
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BASEBALL?! FAGTOP-TENNIS?!

Are you women pulling our chains?

Holy hell, I don't even like soccer or cricket.... but those two have my vote.

I don't like them because they require some serious self-sacrifice.

LOL.........table tennis.... wtf.

I guess team dress-up doll is a super (world renknown) sport as well.

lovely human.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Feb, I gave you a week off for lack of common sense.

Again you win the lottery, this time for a month.

After that, I do not know what math algorithm I will use.

Mod
 

torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
11
76
How long before sophomoric Jack gets banned?

Cricket? What? That's just a variation of baseball in terms of team / individual skill.

Doubles tennis is a good choice, as is basketball. I don't know what your problem is with someone scoring 80 points. The person who did that is on a team that is #7 in their conference. The teams with the best records play as a team while still having strong individuals: san antonio, detroit, dallas, phoenix, new jersey, etc.

I'd rank Hockey and Soccer at about the same level as each other. It takes teamwork to consistently get into a position where a great individual can shine.

I think some people are confusing "balance between individual and team" as "team only".
 

imported_Pablo

Diamond Member
Jan 20, 2002
3,714
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Originally posted by: SophalotJack
BASEBALL?! FAGTOP-TENNIS?!

Are you women pulling our chains?

Holy hell, I don't even like soccer or cricket.... but those two have my vote.

I don't like them because they require some serious self-sacrifice.

LOL.........table tennis.... wtf.

I guess team dress-up doll is a super (world renknown) sport as well.

lovely human.

Lucky for us, you're about to get banned. Thanks for giving us a solid reason.
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Originally posted by: torpid
How long before sophomoric Jack gets banned?

Cricket? What? That's just a variation of baseball in terms of team / individual skill.

Doubles tennis is a good choice, as is basketball. I don't know what your problem is with someone scoring 80 points. The person who did that is on a team that is #7 in their conference. The teams with the best records play as a team while still having strong individuals: san antonio, detroit, dallas, phoenix, new jersey, etc.

I'd rank Hockey and Soccer at about the same level as each other. It takes teamwork to consistently get into a position where a great individual can shine.

I think some people are confusing "balance between individual and team" as "team only".

Hockey and Soccer, the game is essentially the same technically.
The only reason american football is not on there is because it simply doesn't have that evolving thing soccer or hockey has.
Personally i prefer soccer, as the larger field makes it more tactical, though i rarely (if ever) watch it.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: Pablo
Originally posted by: SophalotJack
BASEBALL?! FAGTOP-TENNIS?!

Are you women pulling our chains?

Holy hell, I don't even like soccer or cricket.... but those two have my vote.

I don't like them because they require some serious self-sacrifice.

LOL.........table tennis.... wtf.

I guess team dress-up doll is a super (world renknown) sport as well.

lovely human.

Lucky for us, you're about to get banned. Thanks for giving us a solid reason.

:beer::D:beer:
 

Blieb

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2000
3,475
0
76
Everyone forgets that in most sports you get to run around on your feet. Something ANYONE can do.

In hockey, skating itself is a skill not all possess.
 

torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
11
76
Originally posted by: Blieb
Everyone forgets that in most sports you get to run around on your feet. Something ANYONE can do.

In hockey, skating itself is a skill not all possess.

So? In basketball you have to run while dribbling. What does that have to do with team vs individual talent? Nothing.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
yes, but everyone who plays Hockey can skate...so there is no difference...some are better skaters just like some are better runners in those sports

I put hockey, soccer, lacross, and Ultimate frisbee in the same group as far as team-work and individual skill

I'd actually put basketball ahead of those since the court is smaller

Football is very-much team oriented, yes the plays are scripted but you have to adapt to what the other side is doing - what formations, packages, etc...and I think QB's are unique among all these sports in the importance they have on the impact of every play - so I would actually say football is the ultimate sport that requires team and individual skills - you have very specialized individual skills all working together, imo much more so than these other sports.
 

theknight571

Platinum Member
Mar 23, 2001
2,896
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How about Australian Rules Football... there you have to run while dribbling a football. :)

Or Rugby maybe?

 

jlbenedict

Banned
Jul 10, 2005
3,724
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Originally posted by: NeoV
yes, but everyone who plays Hockey can skate...so there is no difference...some are better skaters just like some are better runners in those sports

I put hockey, soccer, lacross, and Ultimate frisbee in the same group as far as team-work and individual skill

I'd actually put basketball ahead of those since the court is smaller

Football is very-much team oriented, yes the plays are scripted but you have to adapt to what the other side is doing - what formations, packages, etc...and I think QB's are unique among all these sports in the importance they have on the impact of every play - so I would actually say football is the ultimate sport that requires team and individual skills - you have very specialized individual skills all working together, imo much more so than these other sports.

My exact views on football as well. Mediocre quarterbacks have proven that they do not have to be the superstar of the team to single handed decide the success of their team. For examples.. Troy Aikman was never really a "great" quarterback. He had an excellent offensive line, which in turn gave him the adequate time to make his reciever progressions, and make the timely throw... Same with the running game.. a piss poor block by one of your offensive linemen can disupt an entire play.. time and time again..
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
After watching it in the recent Olympics, I'm going to cast a vote for curling.

Having actually curled, I have to say I agree.

Every player has to be on the ball in pretty much every aspect of the game, but that's not enough - they have to be able to communicate and follow each other as well. You can plop 4 great curlers on the ice, but if they can't communicate with each other, they are still going to crash and burn.
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
3,428
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After reading what everyone else has said, I still have to say football requires the ultimate balance between team and individual skill.

One player being out of position on defense can mean the difference between forcing a five-yard loss or giving up the game-winning touchdown.

But it is also possible for one single player to carry a team to victory.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
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Wrasslin'

You can be the state champ and go undefeated, but if your teammates cannot win thier match, the team loses.
 
Apr 17, 2005
13,465
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defense in basketball...defense in football...doubles in table tennis or tennis. I'd have to say curling too...its ridiculous, but it does require good teamwork.

Oh an also, I've seen many many relay races where the handoff sequence has been butchered...its prolly more essential than the actual running.