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Thebobo

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
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1prophet said:
Sorry to rain on everyone's parade.

Click to expand...

Hmm who to believe, one random sensationalist Youtube video maker or X prize that gives away 10s of millions of dollars for viable solutions.

the video maker to me is a charleton.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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This is great for somebody who has abundant funds to acquire sufficient solar generated electricity who wants security, say from the water supply being interrupted by earthquake, etc. This one uses biomass that releases CO2 and could be used by the soil.
 
rstrohkirch

rstrohkirch

Platinum Member
May 31, 2005
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1prophet said:
Sorry to rain on everyone's parade.

Click to expand...

I watched the video and read a couple of articles on this. It seems the author's primary point is that it isn't cost effective to use a device like this. But no where in the video does he provide any factual proof on the costs of shipping drinking water to remote places devices like this would primarily be targeted at.

His second issue is that people keep using the word "free" and he takes a big grievance to this. I understand why he feels this way and really they should be using phrasing like reduced cost. Even if someone put this machine in some remote village on their own dime there would still need to be upkeep on the machine itself. As well as including training on how to maintain the machine. You would also probably want a backup fossil fuel generator.
 
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Stokely

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Jun 5, 2017
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Related (though not politics): keep in mind that a new Dune movie (actually multiple) is coming from Denis Villeneuve (director of Sicario, Arrival, Blade Runner 2049 among others). Too bad the recent BR movie didn't do well at the box office, had too much intelligence in it for modern audiences I guess LOL!
 
MrPickins

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
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Moonbeam said:
This is great for somebody who has abundant funds to acquire sufficient solar generated electricity who wants security, say from the water supply being interrupted by earthquake, etc. This one uses biomass that releases CO2 and could be used by the soil.
Click to expand...

The company says that the biomass is turned to char, which can be used to fertilize soil.

What I want to know is how the boimass is powering the system. Are they generating electricity by burning it?
 
Thebobo

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
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PottedMeat said:
he's got a rep for killing stupid ideas

this particular xprize looks like a complex repackaging of a dehumidifier as a marketing and advertising exercise
Click to expand...

Never heard of him. I will believe X prize over someone trying to make a living on youtube.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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MrPickins said:
The company says that the biomass is turned to char, which can be used to fertilize soil.

What I want to know is how the boimass is powering the system. Are they generating electricity by burning it?
Click to expand...
I can't see any other explanation. And wood ash is not going to have the same benefits to the soil as mulching with biomass would. Carbon is returned to the soil instead of the atmosphere increasing water retention by reducing evaporation, rain water absorption preventing soil erosion and runoff, and biological diversity for soil organisms. In fact new research shows that by the careful use of intense grazing by high density herd animals, typically cattle, rotated over grass land whereby the grass is returned to the soil as dung and urine and stamped into the ground, desertification can be reversed and the productivity of the land vastly increased.

Edit: This process creates charcoal, not wood ash as I now understand, but neither of which is as good in the soil as the biomass unprocessed would be.
 
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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,071
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“Certainly in regions where you have a lot of biomass this is going to be a very simple technology to deploy,” said Matthew Stuber, a professor of chemical and biomolecular engineering at the University of Connecticut and expert on water systems who was one of the panel’s judges.
Click to expand...

WTF? So... to clarify this wouldn't be useful in a desert.
And instead of passive generation from air, this is based on the consumption of... what, wet wood?

I am finding reasons not to be impressed. But maybe i need a better understanding of how it works and, more importantly, its practical applications.
 
M

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Thebobo said:
Never heard of him. I will believe X prize over someone trying to make a living on youtube.
Click to expand...
You can't change the fact that it takes one calorie of energy to cool water one degree per gram, but 640 calories, if memory serves, to change it from water vapor to water with no change in temperature. In some foggy areas of the world nets are used to collect dew. The efficiency drops the less water there is in the air. The Israelis have also worked with this method but the rub is that it requires lots of energy and if it isn't renewable CO2 free energy it adds to other problems that are drought related.
 
Thebobo

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,672
136
Moonbeam said:
You can't change the fact that it takes one calorie of energy to cool water one degree per gram, but 640 calories, if memory serves, to change it from water vapor to water with no change in temperature. In some foggy areas of the world nets are used to collect dew. The efficiency drops the less water there is in the air. The Israelis have also worked with this method but the rub is that it requires lots of energy and if it isn't renewable CO2 free energy it adds to other problems that are drought related.
Click to expand...

That guy lumps all other so call free water plans in with the Xprize one which is bullshit. He's just pushing for clicks.
 
hal2kilo

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,411
11,807
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Stokely said:
Related (though not politics): keep in mind that a new Dune movie (actually multiple) is coming from Denis Villeneuve (director of Sicario, Arrival, Blade Runner 2049 among others). Too bad the recent BR movie didn't do well at the box office, had too much intelligence in it for modern audiences I guess LOL!
Click to expand...
Awesome! He who controls the spice controls the universe!
 
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M

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,091
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Thebobo said:
That guy lumps all other so call free water plans in with the Xprize one which is bullshit. He's just pushing for clicks.
Click to expand...
Can't comment on the guy and his intentions. I also don't understand what you mean by free water plans. There is water vapor in the atmosphere that can be extracted if you don't have to pay for the energy used. In the case of the Xprize winner, they combined an existing commercial atmospheric water extractor, a dehumidifier, with a pyrolysis oil, syngas and char producing machine to supply energy from biomass that is locally available. This machine will produce carbon that can be used to improve soils, but not to the degree that the biomass applied directly to the soil would, and not without the release of some CO2. The biomass is being used to produce biogas, flammable liquid, with charcoal left over. The efficiency is based on the assumption the biomass can be had for pretty much nothing, I think. The same system could be run by solar carbon neutral but that would cost. The same kind of dehumidifying system is being used in India using commercial investments for a solar plant and water sold to villagers with a pay back time of four years. This is being done in one of the most contaminated water areas in that country so there is incentive for people to buy safe water. Since the area is poverty stricken, the water must be pretty cheap.

PS: The India example may be using reverse osmosis, I can't remember for sure.
 
GagHalfrunt

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,997
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Cute idea, great ingenuity, ultimately futile idea. While 2 cents a liter sounds great that's still considerably more expensive than a traditional desalination plant. As always, the key is energy costs and I'd be willing to bet that desalination is more energy efficient that that. The places most likely to need that are the least able to afford it.
 
kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
30,226
44,455
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GagHalfrunt said:
Cute idea, great ingenuity, ultimately futile idea. While 2 cents a liter sounds great that's still considerably more expensive than a traditional desalination plant. As always, the key is energy costs and I'd be willing to bet that desalination is more energy efficient that that. The places most likely to need that are the least able to afford it.
Click to expand...

Can't it be both?

What about places no where near large bodies of salt water? I participated in an underwater survey for a Dutch built de-sal plant in Oman once. They are large, expensive looking constructs, with fairly significant power requirements and a team of support staff required. Certainly more expensive and time consuming to develop/deploy than what this couple have produced. I don't think it's futile at all. You think they'd turn this down in the armpit of Chad, or some tiny island in the Pacific? I would think they'd be donated or heavily subsidized via grants or something, at least initially.
 
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GagHalfrunt

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,997
126
kage69 said:
What about places no where near large bodies of salt water?
Click to expand...

STILL cheaper to pipe/ship water. The people who need this can't afford it and if they could afford if they'd be able to afford desalinated water or water from a more distant source.

https://www.livescience.com/4510-desalination-work.html

It's cheaper to import than it is to desalinate
It's cheaper to desalinate than it is to use this method.

Do the math.
 
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