The Secular meaning of Christmas

[DragonMasterAlex]

This is reprinted from the Freespace Blog, my favorite weblog. Thought I'd share it, it's rather insightful (and makes me think, somehow, of Bowfinger...)

It?s hard to believe, but there are some people who can go to the glittering world that is the American shopping mall?full of abundance, full of families, full of strangers who exchange peacefully value for value?people who can see the great wealth that on Thursday will make so many children?s faces light up with joy; who can relish the warmth provided by the mall?s climate control technology, and eat at their choice of restaurants and even have fruits out of season; who can see the magnificent cathedral-high ceilings we build, safely, in mere weeks, by modern technology (rather than extorted from the labor of serfs over miserable generations the way actual cathedrals were); who can see fantasies come to life on 24 screens of a movie theater for no other reason than to give people a little joy; who can see their friends aid their suffering with medicines that were unavailable to any previous generations; who can see all of these genuine miracles before their very eyes?and rather than shaking with joy, and embracing the wonder of these things, can spit at them; curse them; focus only on the one woman shouting profanity in a parking lot; call such unprecedented comfort ?hideous,? and romanticize the horror of the Dark Ages as if they were spiritually superior to today. These are the people who actually hate humanity more than God?for He allegedly gave His only begotten son that humanity might live; but these people I?m speaking of, they wouldn?t go anywhere near that far. There are actually people who can look at happiness and hate it, or think it somehow empty?that is not particularly shocking, I guess. But that such people can claim that theirs is a doctrine of joy, or redemption, or fulfillment, or ?light?? No. That is not ?real? happiness.* That is a doctrine of hatred for the world and for man and for his joys and for his needs and for his simple pleasures and for his creativity and for his success and for his achievement.

O, tantum religio potuit suadere malorum! As Ayn Rand wrote,

The charming aspect of Christmas is the fact that it expresses good will in a cheerful, happy, benevolent, non-sacrificial way. One says ?Merry Christmas??not ?Weep and Repent.? And the good will is expressed in a material, earthly form?by giving presents to one?s friends or by sending them cards in token of remembrance?. The best aspect of Christmas is the aspect usually decried by the mystics: the fact that Christmas has been commercialized.... t stimulates an enormous outpouring of ingenuity in the creation of products devoted to a single purpose: to give men pleasure. And the street decorations put up by department stores and other institutions?the Christmas trees, the winking lights, the glittering colors?provide the city with a spectacular display, which only ?commercial greed? could afford to give us. One would have to be terribly depressed to resist the wonderful gaiety of that spectacle. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of you.

Ayn Rand, the Secular Meaning of Christmas, reprinted in The Ayn Rand Column 111-12 (P. Schwartz ed. 1991).

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

 

[Witling]

I enjoy Christmas as a secular holiday. While recognizing its religious roots, I think that it has become a secular holiday for many. Christmas trees, snow people (I'm from California, we can't say "men"), bells, holly, mistletoe, snowflakes, and Santa Claus are not Christian symbols. I appreciate the season for its emphasis on peace and goodwill toward people (I'm from California). I think that most people who don't dwell in the halls of power wish for peace on earth. We differ about the best way to go about that.

 

[SuperTool]

Christmas is the day before after-Christmas sales start from my POV. I celebrate new year though. I do like santa claus and the christmas spirit tho, but I don't do anything special for christmas.

 

[JackBurton]

Santa, Jesus, it's all the same.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Whitling
I enjoy Christmas as a secular holiday. While recognizing its religious roots, I think that it has become a secular holiday for many. Christmas trees, snow people (I'm from California, we can't say "men"), bells, holly, mistletoe, snowflakes, and Santa Claus are not Christian symbols. I appreciate the season for its emphasis on peace and goodwill toward people (I'm from California). I think that most people who don't dwell in the halls of power wish for peace on earth. We differ about the best way to go about that.

Santa Claus is derived from St. Nickolaus, which is a Christian icon.


Personally, I believe the secular community has the right to celebrate Christmas doing whatever they want, but they shouldn't hijack Christmas anymore than a group of cave-dwelling mole-people should hijack July 4th as they day they celebrate the birth of the sun...

ie, Christmas is about the birth of Jesus Christ, son of God and the savior of mankind, and not christmas trees, presents, carols, or shopping... It would be tasteless and disrespectful for those who don't acknowledge this, to change the meaning of it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Whitling
I enjoy Christmas as a secular holiday. While recognizing its religious roots, I think that it has become a secular holiday for many. Christmas trees, snow people (I'm from California, we can't say "men"), bells, holly, mistletoe, snowflakes, and Santa Claus are not Christian symbols. I appreciate the season for its emphasis on peace and goodwill toward people (I'm from California). I think that most people who don't dwell in the halls of power wish for peace on earth. We differ about the best way to go about that.

Santa Claus is derived from St. Nickolaus, which is a Christian icon.


Personally, I believe the secular community has the right to celebrate Christmas doing whatever they want, but they shouldn't hijack Christmas anymore than a group of cave-dwelling mole-people should hijack July 4th as they day they celebrate the birth of the sun...

ie, Christmas is about the birth of Jesus Christ, son of God and the savior of mankind, and not christmas trees, presents, carols, or shopping... It would be tasteless and disrespectful for those who don't acknowledge this, to change the meaning of it.

Xmas, Xmas, Xmas!!!

 

[ReiAyanami]

happy kwanzanakah -brought to you by conan the o'brian

 

[Lalakai]

interesting fact about xmas; by the best information it looks like Jesus was actually born in or near August (based on star position and supported by most scholars). It wasn't until nearly 3 centuries after his death, that his birthday was moved, to overlay the "pagan" festive "celebration of lights", which most catholics now call Christmas.:Q

 

[EXman]

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Santa Claus is derived from St. Nickolaus, which is a Christian icon.

but St. Nicholas is derived from Poseidon, Neptune and Hold Nickar; all pagan gods.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Santa Claus is derived from St. Nickolaus, which is a Christian icon.

but St. Nicholas is derived from Poseidon, Neptune and Hold Nickar; all pagan gods.

Actually he was a real person, from like Constantinople or something in the area around Turkey... and he was known for being very generous...

 

[Witling]

And, the celebration of lights was clearly layed over the winter solstice holiday. Calendar drift in the old calendar system took it to the 25th. The occasion for reforming the calendar was that Easter was drifting out of the spring time.

 

[0roo0roo]

dickens - Christmas carol

 

[Tom]

The part of Christianity I like is the part about people taking care of each other and love and stuff like that, and it doesn't require any belief in hocus-pocus or such.

And I like the way that in America, Christmas is all mixed up with Pagan rituals and family traditions, and foods from different cultures, etc.

So in our family Christmas is a great family celebration, related to Christianity mostly in that it's about expressions of love and giving, combined with passing down family traditions of fancy gift wrapping and foods.
:gift:

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Whitling
I enjoy Christmas as a secular holiday. While recognizing its religious roots, I think that it has become a secular holiday for many. Christmas trees, snow people (I'm from California, we can't say "men"), bells, holly, mistletoe, snowflakes, and Santa Claus are not Christian symbols. I appreciate the season for its emphasis on peace and goodwill toward people (I'm from California). I think that most people who don't dwell in the halls of power wish for peace on earth. We differ about the best way to go about that.

Santa Claus is derived from St. Nickolaus, which is a Christian icon.


Personally, I believe the secular community has the right to celebrate Christmas doing whatever they want, but they shouldn't hijack Christmas anymore than a group of cave-dwelling mole-people should hijack July 4th as they day they celebrate the birth of the sun...

ie, Christmas is about the birth of Jesus Christ, son of God and the savior of mankind, and not christmas trees, presents, carols, or shopping... It would be tasteless and disrespectful for those who don't acknowledge this, to change the meaning of it.

And Mardi Gras is the day to confess your sins, and Halloween is the eve of all saints day. Lighten up, dude, it's not disrespectful. Different people celebrate different things on christmas.
Do your thing let me do my thing.

 

[rahvin]

Christmas it the Roman Festival of Saturnalia with elements of Celtic and other winter solstice celebrations (tree, yule log, candles) thrown in.

St. Nicholas was a turkish merchant in Romania (or bulgaria, can't remember) that put gifts in peoples shoes.

The Santa Claus you know in modern america was created by the Coca Cola Company in the 30's as part of an advertising campaign that started the comercialization of christmas.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I am converted!

Give me your money. Go into debt. As long as it goes into my pocket that's great!

Forget others, look at TV commercials. Want more. It is your reason for existence.

Teach children that wonderful philosophy of Rockefeller. --- How much is enough? Just a little more.

I owe you nothing, if you be like to die, do so and decrease the surplus population.

Oh Scrooge, my icon! Why did you stray from the path of happiness?

 

[DealMonkey]

What about the rest of the year Ayn? Only one day per year to express good will and then it's back to every man for himself? Gotcha. Hell, there are some great things about Christmas and there are some ugly things too. Which one you focus on depends on your individual level of cynicism. For me, I see a little of both.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: rahvin
Christmas it the Roman Festival of Saturnalia with elements of Celtic and other winter solstice celebrations (tree, yule log, candles) thrown in.

St. Nicholas was a turkish merchant in Romania (or bulgaria, can't remember) that put gifts in peoples shoes.

The Santa Claus you know in modern america was created by the Coca Cola Company in the 30's as part of an advertising campaign that started the comercialization of christmas.

I think I'd prefer celebrating Saturnalia.. A week of orgies and drunken sexual excess would be wonderful..

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
What about the rest of the year Ayn? Only one day per year to express good will and then it's back to every man for himself? Gotcha. Hell, there are some great things about Christmas and there are some ugly things too. Which one you focus on depends on your individual level of cynicism. For me, I see a little of both.

Now, now, no reason to be cynical. The point of the paragraph wasn't to say we should only celebrate once per year but merely to say that it's good we have a time of year where we celebrate in this way. Some of the folks around here are so buried in their cynicism that they refuse to see the spiritual/emotional/intellectual expression that is at the root of our material gift giving. I suspect these are the types who have accepted the nonsense doctrine that matter and spirit are divorced and at war with one another, but personally I see material and spiritual as two components of a solid whole, and without either the whole is not complete.

Jason

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
This is reprinted from the Freespace Blog, my favorite weblog. Thought I'd share it, it's rather insightful (and makes me think, somehow, of Bowfinger...)

It?s hard to believe, but there are some people who can go to the glittering world that is the American shopping mall?full of abundance, full of families, full of strangers who exchange peacefully value for value?people who can see the great wealth that on Thursday will make so many children?s faces light up with joy; who can relish the warmth provided by the mall?s climate control technology, and eat at their choice of restaurants and even have fruits out of season; who can see the magnificent cathedral-high ceilings we build, safely, in mere weeks, by modern technology (rather than extorted from the labor of serfs over miserable generations the way actual cathedrals were); who can see fantasies come to life on 24 screens of a movie theater for no other reason than to give people a little joy; who can see their friends aid their suffering with medicines that were unavailable to any previous generations; who can see all of these genuine miracles before their very eyes?and rather than shaking with joy, and embracing the wonder of these things, can spit at them; curse them; focus only on the one woman shouting profanity in a parking lot; call such unprecedented comfort ?hideous,? and romanticize the horror of the Dark Ages as if they were spiritually superior to today. These are the people who actually hate humanity more than God?for He allegedly gave His only begotten son that humanity might live; but these people I?m speaking of, they wouldn?t go anywhere near that far. There are actually people who can look at happiness and hate it, or think it somehow empty?that is not particularly shocking, I guess. But that such people can claim that theirs is a doctrine of joy, or redemption, or fulfillment, or ?light?? No. That is not ?real? happiness.* That is a doctrine of hatred for the world and for man and for his joys and for his needs and for his simple pleasures and for his creativity and for his success and for his achievement.

O, tantum religio potuit suadere malorum! As Ayn Rand wrote,

The charming aspect of Christmas is the fact that it expresses good will in a cheerful, happy, benevolent, non-sacrificial way. One says ?Merry Christmas??not ?Weep and Repent.? And the good will is expressed in a material, earthly form?by giving presents to one?s friends or by sending them cards in token of remembrance?. The best aspect of Christmas is the aspect usually decried by the mystics: the fact that Christmas has been commercialized.... t stimulates an enormous outpouring of ingenuity in the creation of products devoted to a single purpose: to give men pleasure. And the street decorations put up by department stores and other institutions?the Christmas trees, the winking lights, the glittering colors?provide the city with a spectacular display, which only ?commercial greed? could afford to give us. One would have to be terribly depressed to resist the wonderful gaiety of that spectacle. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of you.

Ayn Rand, the Secular Meaning of Christmas, reprinted in The Ayn Rand Column 111-12 (P. Schwartz ed. 1991).

Man you are so screwed up. We are trying to save the middle class that makes your shopping mall of abundance. You twist this into hating humanity. You just out-stupided your theory of trade deficits.

 

[Vadatajs]

All this talk of love around the holdays is horsesh!t when people get trampled trying to buy the latest new toy or 20$ dvd player. It's greed that drives the christmas season, nothing more. Altruism won't help wal-mart's bottom line.

Neither will jesus.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Ldir, you don't give a fvck about the middle class and you damned well know it. If you DID care about them you would be doing everything you could to stop the Government from STEALING from some people to give to others, INCLUDING a number of large, unethical corporations who lobby the government to steal from private citizens so they can use the land their HOMES used to sit on to build new stores. You're as dishonest and deceitful as Bowfinger, and you show your true colors more and more with every retarded post you make.

I'll take the opinion of Mr. Sandefur, who actually IS a hero who is out there fighting to overturn such unethical laws that make theft of any kind, whether by private citizens or evil corporations. What are YOU doing, fop?

Jason

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Ldir, you don't give a fvck about the middle class and you damned well know it. If you DID care about them you would be doing everything you could to stop the Government from STEALING from some people to give to others, INCLUDING a number of large, unethical corporations who lobby the government to steal from private citizens so they can use the land their HOMES used to sit on to build new stores. You're as dishonest and deceitful as Bowfinger, and you show your true colors more and more with every retarded post you make.

I'll take the opinion of Mr. Sandefur, who actually IS a hero who is out there fighting to overturn such unethical laws that make theft of any kind, whether by private citizens or evil corporations. What are YOU doing, fop?

Jason

Get help. Soon.