The Secret Developers: Wii U - the inside story

[Imaginer]

I think it would be particularly interesting if Nintendo became an exclusive third-party developer for Sony, especially considering the two companies' history in the 90s.

If it means Nintendo getting Sony to reverse their (sound in language universal representation) shape button notations in favor of one-syllable alphabet notations alongside Nintendo dictating in equal say in periphery, then maybe?

(Reason for my point above, ever describe or wanting to type online something to do for a move, action, etc? It is cumbersome and time consuming to say REC-TANG-LE/SQUARE, CIR-CLE, and TRI-AN-GLE versus eX and whY.)

But a three contender system keeps things in check more than two. I rather not see Nintendo bow out of the race. (Steam Machines is on the levels of Ouya and 3DO at the moment)

 

[lamedude]

Wow, they went with Renesas as their fab? I guess they wanted to keep things in Japan, but a semi cutting edge product really needs to be at one of the big fabs...

EDRAM might of been the reason.

Nintendo could try to contract another company to produce the component, but there are circumstances that make it difficult. According to a Renesas executive the production of that semiconductor was the result of the “secret sauce” and state-of-the-art know-how part of the NEC heritage of the Tsuruoka plant, making production elsewhere difficult. In order to restart mass production in a different factory redesigning the component may be necessary.

They moved to TSMC anyway and MS managed the transition back in 07 without any reported issues so it might be BS.

I'll never figure out why they flat out refuse to at least meet the same bar as xbox and ps

I mean...we are probably talking about pennies on the dollar when it comes to the difference between a WiiU (As it is now) and a WiiU with decent capabilities.

Backwards compatibly limited their CPU choices. IBM probably could've scaled down a CPU architecture from this millennia to similar size and TDP or gone with a ready made MIPS design instead of that older than your average CoD player PPC 750.

 

[Ancalagon44]

Sounds like they had a bad case of NIH too.

This.

Also, if anything to blame, it would be Japanese pride.

And this.

If Nintendo management carries on like this, I think they will be out of business in a few years. You simply cannot compete with the giants anymore, with such an outdated mindset.

Also, think of this. Lets say you are a father and you have kids. You want to buy them a games console. You can buy them a Wii U, which is cheap and has games they want. Or you can buy a more expensive console, which will have games that they enjoy, plus games you enjoy. Why buy the Wii U at all? There are kid friendly games available for the other consoles.

If your target market is only under 13, I think you have a problem.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Here's my issue with your point: Kids squeal at ANYTHING new. Kids are also not the only fans of Nintendo games. Heck, most of what you call those "squealing-kid" games comes as another version of a game that people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s loved growing up.

I already mentioned the nostalgia angle. And my kids love new things, but they love the WiiU more. Trust me. I have battles with them cause they want to play it constantly. I have to limit their time on it, and they get pissed when I do. It is by far their favorite toy. And yes, I still have tablets, a 23" touchscreen quad core HP Envy, a Roku, and tons of kids movies, an XBOX360, and countless non-electronic diversions. They want the WiiU everytime. And so do the neighbors kids. We have 7 kids in my cul de sac and 4 WiiU households. Maybe the attitude of many on here is correct and its the worst failure of a console ever. All I can tell you is these kids love it. And they keep buying more stuff for it. Everytime they get a new game the doorbell rings so they can show it off. Anecdotal, yes, but I suspect it's not that uncommon.

There is such a thing as targeting a niche. And branding yourself as a family oriented system aimed at kids and their nostalgiac parents in their 30s-40s is not only a sufficiently large demographic, it is also one with strong purchasing power.

The WiiU isn't what you as a hardcore gamer wanted. I get that - if I want my BF4 fix, I crank up my PC. It's a risk to not cater to me & you specifically with a machine capable of providing the best quality FPS games, but it's not an insane one. It's also a risk to just cater to the hardcore gamer. Nintendo may be a bit set in their ways, but they're not as stupid as the bitter fanbase on forums like this portrays them to be.

Maybe next time they'll go for the product you want. They never intended to this time. The vitriole and desperate desire to bury them and this system comes off as kinda ridiculous from an outsiders perspective.

 

[ImpulsE69]

No matter how you spin what they did, it still comes off as a failure. If they only intended to sell a few million units, then I guess they succeeded, but all reports show otherwise and it is a failure at this point. The # of people who will drop $250 (plus game cost) on 1 or 2 games over the life of a console is not high, and it certainly isn't the kids who make that decision. It's the parents.

It's just another company stuck in their old ways who refuse to rethink things. Just the "weeks to translate questions" comment alone is baffling in todays fast turn around business world.

 

[smackababy]

It's just another company stuck in their old ways who refuse to rethink things. Just the "weeks to translate questions" comment alone is baffling in todays fast turn around business world.

If the company I work out got a question and took weeks to translate it and respond, by that time, they'd already have a new business partner and we'd be out in the cold.

This is a gross mishandling by Nintendo and that is why they are faltering.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I already mentioned the nostalgia angle. And my kids love new things, but they love the WiiU more. Trust me. I have battles with them cause they want to play it constantly. I have to limit their time on it, and they get pissed when I do. It is by far their favorite toy. And yes, I still have tablets, a 23" touchscreen quad core HP Envy, a Roku, and tons of kids movies, an XBOX360, and countless non-electronic diversions. They want the WiiU everytime. And so do the neighbors kids. We have 7 kids in my cul de sac and 4 WiiU households. Maybe the attitude of many on here is correct and its the worst failure of a console ever. All I can tell you is these kids love it. And they keep buying more stuff for it. Everytime they get a new game the doorbell rings so they can show it off. Anecdotal, yes, but I suspect it's not that uncommon.

There is such a thing as targeting a niche. And branding yourself as a family oriented system aimed at kids and their nostalgiac parents in their 30s-40s is not only a sufficiently large demographic, it is also one with strong purchasing power.

The WiiU isn't what you as a hardcore gamer wanted. I get that - if I want my BF4 fix, I crank up my PC. It's a risk to not cater to me & you specifically with a machine capable of providing the best quality FPS games, but it's not an insane one. It's also a risk to just cater to the hardcore gamer. Nintendo may be a bit set in their ways, but they're not as stupid as the bitter fanbase on forums like this portrays them to be.

Maybe next time they'll go for the product you want. They never intended to this time. The vitriole and desperate desire to bury them and this system comes off as kinda ridiculous from an outsiders perspective.

Why do you always equate "hardcore gamer" with fps games? That isn't all we plat. Maybe we want fighters, Sim racers, bigger RPGs(talking witcher and skyrim types), and better action exclusives (think last of us and god of war titles).

If all my friends had a certain system of course I would be showing off new games and them doing the same for me. However, the WiiU doesn't really have much of a software lineup to begin with so anything new going to be exciting.

 

[smackababy]

Why do you always equate "hardcore gamer" with fps games? That isn't all we plat. Maybe we want fighters, Sim racers, bigger RPGs(talking witcher and skyrim types), and better action exclusives (think last of us and god of war titles).

I think some people here should watch King of Kong. Are those guys not hardcore because they don't play COD 17? If they aren't hardcore gamers, I think the word hardcore doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Why do you always equate "hardcore gamer" with fps games? That isn't all we plat. Maybe we want fighters, Sim racers, bigger RPGs(talking witcher and skyrim types).

Pretty sure that Bayonetta 2, Project C.A.R.S., Monolith's X, a new Zelda game, etc. are all coming out and address those genres (though no, Bethesda is not making an Elder Scrolls game for them).

Really, the only two genres that are being excluded by Nintendo's position are hyper realism FPS's (which arent targeted to kids anyway), and sports games. I think Nintendo probably should have supported 3P devs on the latter more, but they also didnt sell well on their hugely successful Wii system - so I don't think the argument that the hardware is the lone culprit there. I think that has more to do with the gamers attracted to Nintendo's little box.

BTW - Im kinda glad that you cant play some of the more violent FPS on the WiiU - makes my job as a parent easier. I had to confiscate some 360 games for that reason (my kids are really really young). On the flip side, my son just got Lego Undercover (correct name?) and he loves it. I havent played it - but it kinda looks like a kiddie, but smart, GTA type game. Neat idea.

 

[cmdrdredd]

EA said no to Nintendo on sports games or something I think. I did say witcher and skyrim types of rpg games. Those western RPG games sell a ton more than jrpgs. I dont think they will get the next dark souls game either.

You still think a game on the wiiu needs to be kid friendly? That is why it isn't selling.

 

[Fulle]

This isn't the first time I heard of a developer presenting Nintendo platforms as unfriendly. Indie developers had previously came out to say that developing for Nintendo is a frustrating experience that is unlikely to be profitable unless the game becomes a really big hit. In the cases of the big publishers, they need to be a lot more transparent due to having shareholders, so they'll just outright say that a game they developed for a platform wasn't profitable, and they don't plan to do so again.

There was a lot of this circling negativity when Iwata made a statement this last November, that I basically translated to "I don't care about 3rd party publishers".

“In terms of how we view our relationship with third-party publishers, I think it is natural that there is a difference between publishers who have the software development resources like Nintendo’s to build a software lineup of their own and publishers who do not."

- My translation: "We don't need 3rd party games on Nintendo consoles as much as Microsoft does on the Xbox, because we make a lot of our own first party software."

"...while we certainly do not have a negative attitude toward strengthening our ties with third-party publishers, employing the same methodology as the other manufacturers would only lead to the most simplistic competitive approaches, such as price wars or money-giving that would never end."

My translation: "We're not interested in financially supporting 3rd party projects in the ways MS and Sony do. If you develop for our consoles, you're on your own".

This happened right before Christmas season.

The Wii U is a terrible platform right now. Nintendo is arrogant and uncaring towards 3rd party publishers. The system has a small install base... and it's expensive to develop for.

This is why you have people in the industry making quotes like:

"Nintendo is irrelevant as a hardware manufacturer".

They're obviously not "irrelevant" yet, but in relation to 3rd party publishers / devs, they're pretty darn close.

 

[Lil Frier]

I already mentioned the nostalgia angle. And my kids love new things, but they love the WiiU more. Trust me. I have battles with them cause they want to play it constantly. I have to limit their time on it, and they get pissed when I do. It is by far their favorite toy. And yes, I still have tablets, a 23" touchscreen quad core HP Envy, a Roku, and tons of kids movies, an XBOX360, and countless non-electronic diversions. They want the WiiU everytime. And so do the neighbors kids. We have 7 kids in my cul de sac and 4 WiiU households. Maybe the attitude of many on here is correct and its the worst failure of a console ever. All I can tell you is these kids love it. And they keep buying more stuff for it. Everytime they get a new game the doorbell rings so they can show it off. Anecdotal, yes, but I suspect it's not that uncommon.

There is such a thing as targeting a niche. And branding yourself as a family oriented system aimed at kids and their nostalgiac parents in their 30s-40s is not only a sufficiently large demographic, it is also one with strong purchasing power.

The WiiU isn't what you as a hardcore gamer wanted. I get that - if I want my BF4 fix, I crank up my PC. It's a risk to not cater to me & you specifically with a machine capable of providing the best quality FPS games, but it's not an insane one. It's also a risk to just cater to the hardcore gamer. Nintendo may be a bit set in their ways, but they're not as stupid as the bitter fanbase on forums like this portrays them to be.

Maybe next time they'll go for the product you want. They never intended to this time. The vitriole and desperate desire to bury them and this system comes off as kinda ridiculous from an outsiders perspective.

Yeah, and my little brothers (8 and 10 now, this was a few years back) didn't want anything to do with the Wii that my grandma got them. They played Rayman Raving Rabids a little, and a bit of Wii Sports at the start, but it didn't take a year before it was just a dust collector at my grandma's (it's now at my sister's, as she, myself, and her husband would play New Super Mario Bros. and Mario Party on it, on occasion).

My little brothers get their Nintendo fix (Pokemon, Mario Kart) through the 3DS. They play Skylanders on the Xbox 360 they got for Christmas in 2012. They have Call of Duty Black Ops II and Halo 3 (the latter was free a few months back). The younger has a cheap tablet, the older has a laptop, and both play Minecraft on them (they played it on 360 for a while as well).

Even your "my kids love it!" is anecdotal, because not all kids really care that much about it. You can find games for kids on all of the consoles, you just have the Wii U. Keep using the undefined "hardcore FPS gamer" tag to completely crew up your argument, because it'll keep doing just that.

Regardless of my love for Halo, the fact remains that it's not the end-all, be-all of what I play, nor is the FPS genre as a whole. Nintendo doesn't offer decent sports games without the name Mario, so I can't get any reasonably-sim sports games. I can't get a non-Mario car game worth a darn, like Forza or NFS. The RPG show is rather limited, so I can't get Skyrim or the hybrid FPS/RPG games like Fallout and Borderlands. Is there online multiplayer for ANYTHING on the console? Can you play CoD online? That's a serious question because of how Nintendo NEVER mentions online play on the console.

The fact of the matter is that there are more genres/great games I CAN'T play with Nintendo than there are great games I CAN play. Unless I want to be limited to just Mario and Donkey Kong (never cared for Zelda or Metroid), there's no reason for me to get a Nintendo console. Platformers are OK, but not my favorite thing, but that's the main draw of Nintendo--for me.

 

[exdeath]

Really, the only two genres that are being excluded by Nintendo's position are hyper realism FPS's (which arent targeted to kids anyway), and sports games.

Not seeing the problem here. There are 5 other platforms that cater to the realistic modern military shooter crowd. What's wrong with Nintendo sticking to their niche?

Before the Halo and Call of Duty mainstream, Nintendo and video games only ever were a niche in the first place

Is Wii U as successful as N64, GameCube, SNES? Ok then no problem .

The only problem with Nintendo is everybody in the industry having Call of Duty sales numbers on the brain and believing anything less than those numbers is somehow a failure.

Nintendo needs only be compared to Nintendo.

 

[dguy6789]

Not terribly concerned with anecdotal dev complaining. Big companies are always a hassle. The spec argument is pointless. Consoles long ago hit a huge diminishing returns roadblock; 10 times graphical power makes games look ~10% better nowadays. The One and PS4 are the most underwhelming generational leap in visuals in console game history. Art style and not number of polygons is what makes a game look good or bad today. Mario 3D World and Windwaker HD look good compared to anything on the PS4.

Wii U sales have been increasing by pretty sizable percentages just about every single month this year and continued to increase during the Xbone and PS4 launches. The next gen console life cycle is just now starting.

There are plenty of games for just about every type of gamer. Anyone who says the Wii U only caters to kids is either a troll or horrendously misinformed. Call of Duty Black Ops 2, Call of Duty Ghosts, Assassin's Creed 3 and 4, Deus Ex, Resident Evil, Splinter Cell, Mass Effect, Batman, Tekken, Injustice, I could go on and on and on. There's a very strong list of sweet games coming out in 2014 and includes big name 3rd party games like Watch Dogs.

By not going with a Wii U you inevitably miss out on Mario, Star Fox, Metroid, Zelda, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong, Pikmin, Bayonetta, Smash Bros. and a lot more. Not to mention the virtual console. By skipping PS4 or Xbone you miss out on *random exclusive #5 nobody ever heard of* or Halo and paying for online play.

 

[SaurusX]

This reminds me of stories I read about devs trying to program for the N64. Nintendo hoarded all of the special microcode that would have enabled devs to get the absolute most of some very difficult hardware. That system had some aspects to it that really crippled the graphics performance and Nintendo wouldn't lift a finger to help. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Not seeing the problem here. There are 5 other platforms that cater to the realistic modern military shooter crowd. What's wrong with Nintendo sticking to their niche?

Before the Halo and Call of Duty mainstream, Nintendo and video games only ever were a niche in the first place

Is Wii U as successful as N64, GameCube, SNES? Ok then no problem .

The only problem with Nintendo is everybody in the industry having Call of Duty sales numbers on the brain and believing anything less than those numbers is somehow a failure.

Nintendo needs only be compared to Nintendo.

Exactly. Well said.

I can't get a non-Mario car game worth a darn, like Forza or NFS.

Need For Speed:

I picked it up for $10 for my kids. They love it. The consensus is that the wiiU version was the best version of this game.

Project C.A.R.S.:

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Pr...e-Shadows-Multi-Threaded-Shadowing-59659.html

That link is worth the read. I am actually excited about that one. Since I didnt get an XBone, I'll probably get the WiiU version.

 

[exdeath]

This reminds me of stories I read about devs trying to program for the N64. Nintendo hoarded all of the special microcode that would have enabled devs to get the absolute most of some very difficult hardware. That system had some aspects to it that really crippled the graphics performance and Nintendo wouldn't lift a finger to help. It just doesn't make sense.

There was only the built in SGI microcode for the RSP in the SDK.

SGI being SGI, their microcode was too high precision and accurate for games and thus very poor performance.

Rare found the greatest success on N64 with rewriting their own microcode from scratch.

 

[Lil Frier]

That link is worth the read. I am actually excited about that one. Since I didnt get an XBone, I'll probably get the WiiU version.

I didn't get an Xbox One either (probably will EVENTUALLY), but it doesn't mean much to say that one game is going to the Wii U. I will read the article a bit later. It's great that the Wii U is going to get support and all, but it's hard to defend an overall lack of content with "there's one multiplatform game that will come in 8-10 months!" If this was a Nintendo-made racer, it would be a big deal. However, it's a multiplatform, and Microsoft already offers a good racer TODAY, so it's still though to make this a selling point--getting a game Microsoft will get, while not being able to play any racer until the end of the year (where as you'd have Forza as an option to tide you over).

Maybe it's the start of a trend, but I doubt it. It's likely an exception to the dismissal of the console by many major publishers (EA, Take-Two/2K, Bethesda), but I doubt it.

I picked it up for $10 for my kids. They love it. The consensus is that the wiiU version was the best version of this game.

As for this: BARF. I consider that game one of the biggest jokes of the generation. I couldn't even BEING to consider playing it. Why? They literally took the branding of a GREAT NFS game, recycled it, made it a totally different game, then released it on the SAME CONSOLE as the original (the original Most Wanted was on the 360, and was the new version).

 

[purbeast0]

The One and PS4 are the most underwhelming generational leap in visuals in console game history. Art style and not number of polygons is what makes a game look good or bad today. Mario 3D World and Windwaker HD look good compared to anything on the PS4.

ah, nostalgia blinders i see.

http://kotaku.com/the-ps3-had-12-games-at-launch-heres-what-they-looked-513396910

i'd say other than N64 this is actually the largest jump in visuals at launch.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Or you could play Need For Speed (see above). Whatever. Look, the WiiU isn't perfect, but it's cheap, economical, the games look great, and my kids love it. There is a place for it and the sales are picking up now that the software releases are picking up. It won't win this gen, but I really dont care. Neither do my kids. I dont buy a gaming system to e-brag about being with the winning team. Everything doesnt have to be such a competition.

You wanna know what my biggest beef is with it? I dislike the Wii Remote. They are uncomfortable to me. So I bought a pro style controller. Problem solved.

 

[smackababy]

ah, nostalgia blinders i see.

http://kotaku.com/the-ps3-had-12-games-at-launch-heres-what-they-looked-513396910

i'd say other than N64 this is actually the largest jump in visuals at launch.

RIIIIIDGE RAAAAAAAAAAAACER!

Seriously... What new console has had substantially better graphics at launch?

 

[Fulle]

Need for Speed, and Project CARS, aren't the best defense.

Need for Speed Rivals skipped the Wii U, due to poor sales on Need for Speed Most Wanted. The Wii U version of Most Wanted also was missing the same level of patches and DLC as other versions of the game.

As far as Project CARS? Project CARS is also releasing on the PC, PS4, and Xbox One, and the Wii U version is the version that will be held back the most by the hardware...

A Sony of MS Console would be a better fit for someone who enjoys racing sims.

 

[Exophase]

Is Wii U as successful as N64, GameCube, SNES? Ok then no problem .

In terms of raw sales numbers it's nowhere close to as successful as N64, and while I don't have per-year breakdowns for SNES I'd be shocked if it was anywhere as bad. It looks like even Gamecube was selling stronger. When adjusted for inflation, the money they're making per console and even per game is probably less, and the game budgets are much higher than they were.

Wii U has been consistently selling far below Nintendo's projections, I don't think they can be very happy about this..

 

[Lil Frier]

Not seeing the problem here. There are 5 other platforms that cater to the realistic modern military shooter crowd. What's wrong with Nintendo sticking to their niche?

Before the Halo and Call of Duty mainstream, Nintendo and video games only ever were a niche in the first place

Is Wii U as successful as N64, GameCube, SNES? Ok then no problem .

The only problem with Nintendo is everybody in the industry having Call of Duty sales numbers on the brain and believing anything less than those numbers is somehow a failure.

Nintendo needs only be compared to Nintendo.

So because other consoles have military shooters, Nintendo should ignore them? This really makes no sense, unless you're someone who wants, and can afford, multiple consoles.

I've said this since the Xbox One and PS4 were announced:

If you are going to get ONE next-gen console, the Wii U is the last one I'd suggest. If you are going to get TWO next-gen consoles, the Wii U is the first one I'd suggest. By that, I mean that the Xbox One and PS4 hit many of the same marks for games, so you can get pretty-much everything you want from one of those consoles. However, Nintendo offers a unique (and high-quality) set of first-party games that separates itself from the other two.

The thing is, it's not about "Call of Duty sales." At least from a developer/publisher standpoint, it's about NO sales. 5 publishers broke 5 million sales on the Wii, and only 2 (Nintendo and Ubisoft) did it multiple times. 6 publishers broke 5 million sales on the Xbox 360, and all but Bethesda (Skyrim) did it multiple times. 8 publishers managed 5 million+ sales on the PS3, with 5 of them doing it multiple times.

My point, through all of the ramblings, is that Nintendo had 20 million more sales of its console than the Xbox 360 and PS3, but its software sales lacked ANY kind of diversity. If you weren't Nintendo or Just Dance, there wasn't much hope for success (Skylanders and Guitar Hero did best on the Wii as well, but the former didn't sell well as a whole, and the latter is a dead genre). Activision won't get anywhere on the Wii because no one buys Call of Duty without any kind of online worth mentioning. EA, Bethesda, and Take-Two don't even participate, and it's likely for similar reasons--the online's not there, and the crowd buying the console won't touch that software.

I think that the #1 problem is the online, though. I know that many others (myself included) would consider a Nintendo console if the online was there. If I could play Super Mario with my sister and her husband over the Internet, we'd probably BOTH get a Wii U. It would make Call of Duty a viable franchise on the Wii U. It would probably lead to a BIG boost in hardware sales. It would probably lead to a big boost in CoD sales. That would probably be enough proof for EA to bring sports and shooter titles of its own on over.

But as long as the online is essentially absent, I don't think that Nintendo can sell hardware on game quality alone. Gaming's become a highly-social endeavor, even if it's just having the ability to do online chat with a friend while you play the same solo game (like Skyrim). Nintendo's still playing this market like it's the 90's, and that's why it fails, I think.

 

[Lil Frier]

Or you could play Need For Speed (see above). Whatever. Look, the WiiU isn't perfect, but it's cheap, economical, the games look great, and my kids love it. There is a place for it and the sales are picking up now that the software releases are picking up. It won't win this gen, but I really dont care. Neither do my kids. I dont buy a gaming system to e-brag about being with the winning team. Everything doesnt have to be such a competition.

You wanna know what my biggest beef is with it? I dislike the Wii Remote. They are uncomfortable to me. So I bought a pro style controller. Problem solved.

What does "economical" mean, beyond the aforementioned "cheap?" And are we really making $300 "cheap?" I think that's a stretch. It's cheapER, but when you're talking about a 10-year investment, is $100 really going to make or break the decision, especially if you know that many major released are going to be missing from that "cheap" console?

I agree that the Wimote is uncomfortable, but I could easily get over that myself. I just didn't like the layout of the controller's buttons. I know it's more arbitrary than anything, but I didn't like having "1" and "2" buttons. I didn't like the Wii's sensor bar, because it seemed to lack good range (playing at my sister's, you'd have issues from the couch because of range).