The Republicans might have overplayed their hand here

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: bamacre
I think as far as the general public is concerned, the Republicans still stink. It's going to take quite some time for them to wash the Bush off themselves.

You are correct but Barrack Hussein Obama is doing his best to show us that Bush wasn't so bad.

Not really... to quote SNL. "Really, Obama, the bar is pretty low, seeing as how the last guy broke the world."

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: senseamp
Let's see, Republicans run in 2010, even if they win, they still don't have any policies that work, so they'll be thrown out again in 2010. So all this obstructionism and throwing monkey wrenches into the economic recovery plans, just so they can stay in power for a couple years?

It isn't so much that their policies don't work as much as it is they don't follow their own supposed beliefs when they have the power to do so. They had 6 years to be small government fiscal conservatives, and instead they acted like war-mongering Democrats.

As I've said before, the only differences between a Democrat of the last 30 years and a "Republican" of the last 30 years is that the Republicans have been MORE left fiscally and completely federal-fascist socially. They don't even know what their name stands for anymore.

Seems that the Democrats are going to erase that deficit with just one bill.

The Democrats are about to add more to our national debt with just one bill than Bush did in his first four years.

So, lets get this straight... Bush gets us in a huge mess, and left us with no good options and you are angry with the dems for the stimulus bill?

Should we just sit back and do nothing?

Where is the anger at Bush for getting us in a situation where a stimulus bill is even being contemplated as neccesary?

No, its just " damn the dems, its all thier fault" /rolls eyes.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Yeh, I know, repubs are desperate to detach themselves from the disaster they've brought us, blame the cleanup crew. It won't work, of course, but when it's all you've got, it's all you've got...

History will judge the effectiveness of the clean-up crew based on how well they clean up the mess.

Great leaders deal with the realities of the NOW. Republicans will inevitably shake themselves free of Bush...I don't think history will ever be kind to Bush, but the Republicans as a party have an opportunity in returning to their fiscal conservative roots.

Whether it works or not, what the public wants to see is the govt making an effort to turn things around.

Some of us believe that the government is incapable of turning anything around, and sometimes, government intervention only complicates the problem.

So, lets get this straight... Bush gets us in a huge mess, and left us with no good options and you are angry with the dems for the stimulus bill?

Bush did many horrible things, but he is not solely to blame for this economic mess.

Where is the anger at Bush for getting us in a situation where a stimulus bill is even being contemplated as neccesary?

There has already been plenty of anger thrown at Bush, and the current Democrat majority in Congress, and Obama winning the Presidency, is the result of the anger you seek.

No, its just " damn the dems, its all thier fault" /rolls eyes.

If the bailout fails, the Democrats will have to accept some of the blame...it is their plan...it is their policies...and it will be their failure.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: bamacre
I think as far as the general public is concerned, the Republicans still stink. It's going to take quite some time for them to wash the Bush off themselves.

Hi, look at me, I'm trolling.

Hi I'm a Jerk don't mind me I need more fiber in my diet!.

Exactly. Budmantom isn't part of the general public, he's one of the remaining few who just can't see how horrible the Bush admin was.

I think Bush sucked big ass. His Neo-con spending habits and ass backward views on the boarder/stimulus/bailouts was a big loser. But Obama is looking like more of the same with a childish heavy socialist slant that has a propensity of picking Liars/crooks/cheats/lobbyists for his cabinet. sounds like more of the same...

 

[Zebo]

I don't see what Bush did to economy other than make a tax cut for rich in time of war putting us in massive debt. Surprisingly, Interest rates have not gone up yet. That will happen though as sovereign funds get a clue about Americas ability to pay and stop lending to this deadbeat. But seriously - you Democratic hacks don't have a clue to what our real problems are and have nothing to do with Bush from enormous job loss from offshored jobs to the last 20 years of "growth" via increased consumer indebtedness, policies your boy and almost every Democrat supports as well. Until these issues and others are addressed we are doom.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Seems that the Democrats are going to erase that deficit with just one bill.

The Democrats are about to add more to our national debt with just one bill than Bush did in his first four years.

So, lets get this straight... Bush gets us in a huge mess, and left us with no good options and you are angry with the dems for the stimulus bill?

Should we just sit back and do nothing?

Where is the anger at Bush for getting us in a situation where a stimulus bill is even being contemplated as neccesary?

No, its just " damn the dems, its all thier fault" /rolls eyes.

Get used to it. I'm to the point I don't bother talking politics with 'conservative' friends/family anymore. It's like they all became some sort of Hannity/Limbaugh clones. Just agree to disagree.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: senseamp
Let's see, Republicans run in 2010, even if they win, they still don't have any policies that work, so they'll be thrown out again in 2010. So all this obstructionism and throwing monkey wrenches into the economic recovery plans, just so they can stay in power for a couple years?

It isn't so much that their policies don't work as much as it is they don't follow their own supposed beliefs when they have the power to do so. They had 6 years to be small government fiscal conservatives, and instead they acted like war-mongering Democrats.

As I've said before, the only differences between a Democrat of the last 30 years and a "Republican" of the last 30 years is that the Republicans have been MORE left fiscally and completely federal-fascist socially. They don't even know what their name stands for anymore.

Seems that the Democrats are going to erase that deficit with just one bill.

The Democrats are about to add more to our national debt with just one bill than Bush did in his first four years.

So, lets get this straight... Bush gets us in a huge mess, and left us with no good options and you are angry with the dems for the stimulus bill?

Should we just sit back and do nothing?

Where is the anger at Bush for getting us in a situation where a stimulus bill is even being contemplated as neccesary?

No, its just " damn the dems, its all thier fault" /rolls eyes.

Bush didnt help but he didnt get us into this either. First thing we need to realize is our economy goes in cycles. We were due for a slow down. This slow down is particularily rough due to the banking crisis. But most people point to a bill that was passed in 2000 and signed by Clinton as the catalyst for what manifested in 2008. Bush had nothing to do with that.

That said can we point to a time when massive govt intervention really helped? People like to paint the 30's as proof that massive govt intervention works. The 30s were a disaster for our country. How about Japan in the 1990's? Even Hoover before FDR came to power spent more money on public works projects than the previous 10-15 years combined. And that didnt stop the depression. And here we are facing an economic downturn and people think this will magically work when it hasnt before. I will have to dig up a quote from FDR's treasury secretary in ~39-40. Something about how we have spent more than we have ever spent and we have still failed.

Anyways this pork bill wont help much but will send us further into debt at alarming rates. Who would have thunk the Bush deficits could look moderate?

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: senseamp
Let's see, Republicans run in 2010, even if they win, they still don't have any policies that work, so they'll be thrown out again in 2010. So all this obstructionism and throwing monkey wrenches into the economic recovery plans, just so they can stay in power for a couple years?

It isn't so much that their policies don't work as much as it is they don't follow their own supposed beliefs when they have the power to do so. They had 6 years to be small government fiscal conservatives, and instead they acted like war-mongering Democrats.

As I've said before, the only differences between a Democrat of the last 30 years and a "Republican" of the last 30 years is that the Republicans have been MORE left fiscally and completely federal-fascist socially. They don't even know what their name stands for anymore.

Seems that the Democrats are going to erase that deficit with just one bill.

The Democrats are about to add more to our national debt with just one bill than Bush did in his first four years.

So, lets get this straight... Bush gets us in a huge mess, and left us with no good options and you are angry with the dems for the stimulus bill?

Should we just sit back and do nothing?

Where is the anger at Bush for getting us in a situation where a stimulus bill is even being contemplated as neccesary?

No, its just " damn the dems, its all thier fault" /rolls eyes.

Bush didnt help but he didnt get us into this either. First thing we need to realize is our economy goes in cycles. We were due for a slow down. This slow down is particularily rough due to the banking crisis. But most people point to a bill that was passed in 2000 and signed by Clinton as the catalyst for what manifested in 2008. Bush had nothing to do with that.

That said can we point to a time when massive govt intervention really helped? People like to paint the 30's as proof that massive govt intervention works. The 30s were a disaster for our country. How about Japan in the 1990's? Even Hoover before FDR came to power spent more money on public works projects than the previous 10-15 years combined. And that didnt stop the depression. And here we are facing an economic downturn and people think this will magically work when it hasnt before. I will have to dig up a quote from FDR's treasury secretary in ~39-40. Something about how we have spent more than we have ever spent and we have still failed.

Anyways this pork bill wont help much but will send us further into debt at alarming rates. Who would have thunk the Bush deficits could look moderate?

Point taken... partially. Obviously the housing/mortgage crisis is at the core... But Bush and the reps did fight regulation of it tooth and nail, that is being responsible for the mess.

Anyhow, so you think we should just sit back and do nothing? If not what? The stimulus is certainly not a great answer, but it could be the difference between a bad recession, and an all out depression. You think its bad now with 7-8% unemployment - the last depression saw 25%

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Point taken... partially. Obviously the housing/mortgage crisis is at the core... But Bush and the reps did fight regulation of it tooth and nail, that is being responsible for the mess.

So did Clinton and Barney Frank.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Point taken... partially. Obviously the housing/mortgage crisis is at the core... But Bush and the reps did fight regulation of it tooth and nail, that is being responsible for the mess.

Anyhow, so you think we should just sit back and do nothing? If not what? The stimulus is certainly not a great answer, but it could be the difference between a bad recession, and an all out depression. You think its bad now with 7-8% unemployment - the last depression saw 25%

Everybody is involved with the banking mess. Democrats and Republicans, liberal and conservative. It was an unfortunate event that we need to learn from.

Is sitting back so bad? Provided we work with banks to provide liquidity which was a major driver in the great depression. I dont think not spending 1 trillion we dont have is the worst idea. Think about the cost of this stimulus and guess how many jobs it will actually create? 1 million? 2 million? 4 million? Even at 4 million that is 200,000 a job. Is that a wise investment? Spending 200,000 taxpayer dollars to chase a 30-60,000 dollar a year job? How many years does that job need to be held before we sniff recovering that cost? At 60K they probably pay about 12-15K in federal income taxes. 13 years?

In the 1930's we spent lots of money and we had a great depression. The only way out of it was a World War. So spending money by the govt obviously isnt the only answer.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the public is coming around to the idea this is nothing but a pork barrel of grand proportions. Something they thought was voted out of office in November. So to claim republicans voicing their concerns over this as overplaying their hands is silly.

As you will note the republicans havent filibustered it, which means they are going to let the democrats own this 100%. And judging by the zero republicans in the house and the 3 in the senate. Democrats will have nowhere to run and nobody to blame when questions are asked where and why we spent nearly 1 trillion dollars if nothing comes of it.

Ahhh, such as great strategy. Instead of taking ownership and trying to improve the country, they'll just let us get further in debt while they play more games. Gotcha politics at its finest.

Most disgusting moves from the Repuglicans.

I've been kind of "on the fence" about the bail out. My initial reaction was that a bail out was better then letting the system go under, but as the amount keeps growing and growing I'm having second thoughts. them seems more like a "We've got the people scared shitless so now let's see how deep into their pockets we can get" sceanrio.

Really, I'm to the point that as far as I'm concerned let the assholes that made this bed lie in it. I know misery loves company but why spread the misery to everyone?

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Really, I'm to the point that as far as I'm concerned let the assholes that made this bed lie in it. I know misery loves company but why spread the misery to everyone?

Thats the sad part of all this... If we do nothing, the misery spread in the form of unemployement. If we spend, the unemployment numbers will at least be less, but its difficult to say by how much.

 

[chrisho]

I think the Republicans are not playing the hand to its fullest.

We have a President and associated staff who think their ideas and goals are beyond question, beyond debate. They seem miffed that the opposition and even some in their own party have different opinions.

If anything Obama and Co. are setting themselves up for a big fall. It will not be fun to watch but it is coming. Japan and even Europe proved you cannot spend your way out of a faltering economy. This is the worst economy since Carter and I fear we will see one as worse as Carter's.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: chrisho
I think the Republicans are not playing the hand to its fullest.

We have a President and associated staff who think their ideas and goals are beyond question, beyond debate. They seem miffed that the opposition and even some in their own party have different opinions.

If anything Obama and Co. are setting themselves up for a big fall. It will not be fun to watch but it is coming. Japan and even Europe proved you cannot spend your way out of a faltering economy. This is the worst economy since Carter and I fear we will see one as worse as Carter's.

What? No.

Maybe that is what you want them to be thinking because you do not support them, but your accusation there is false.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: chrisho
I think the Republicans are not playing the hand to its fullest.

We have a President and associated staff who think their ideas and goals are beyond question, beyond debate. They seem miffed that the opposition and even some in their own party have different opinions.

If anything Obama and Co. are setting themselves up for a big fall. It will not be fun to watch but it is coming. Japan and even Europe proved you cannot spend your way out of a faltering economy. This is the worst economy since Carter and I fear we will see one as worse as Carter's.

What a strange world you must live in. Your post has almost no bearing on reality. Not only has Obama repeatedly stated that he doesn't have all the answers and that he is open to ideas from whoever, but they have put several of these in the bill. Hell, just one provision that is more than $70 billion of the bill, the AMT fix, went in at the request of the Republicans.

Oh and I see from your signature you're wondering who John Galt is. He's a ludicrously one dimensional character in a childishly written and reasoned political manifesto disguised as a bad book.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: chrisho
I think the Republicans are not playing the hand to its fullest.

We have a President and associated staff who think their ideas and goals are beyond question, beyond debate. They seem miffed that the opposition and even some in their own party have different opinions.

If anything Obama and Co. are setting themselves up for a big fall. It will not be fun to watch but it is coming. Japan and even Europe proved you cannot spend your way out of a faltering economy. This is the worst economy since Carter and I fear we will see one as worse as Carter's.

Not surprising. This President is pretty much a clone of that one.

 

[Jhhnn]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: chrisho
I think the Republicans are not playing the hand to its fullest.

We have a President and associated staff who think their ideas and goals are beyond question, beyond debate. They seem miffed that the opposition and even some in their own party have different opinions.

If anything Obama and Co. are setting themselves up for a big fall. It will not be fun to watch but it is coming. Japan and even Europe proved you cannot spend your way out of a faltering economy. This is the worst economy since Carter and I fear we will see one as worse as Carter's.

Not surprising. This President is pretty much a clone of that one.

Forget the looting spree of the last 8 years- the new guy has been in office 3 weeks, so it's all his fault!

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: chrisho
I think the Republicans are not playing the hand to its fullest.

We have a President and associated staff who think their ideas and goals are beyond question, beyond debate. They seem miffed that the opposition and even some in their own party have different opinions.

If anything Obama and Co. are setting themselves up for a big fall. It will not be fun to watch but it is coming. Japan and even Europe proved you cannot spend your way out of a faltering economy. This is the worst economy since Carter and I fear we will see one as worse as Carter's.

What? No.

Maybe that is what you want them to be thinking because you do not support them, but your accusation there is false.

The facts support his statement that you bolded.

The welfare and health care provisions etc have been slipped into this bill to avoid question & debate of the issues. So sure as h3ll looks like they " think their ideas and goals are beyond question, beyond debate"

Fern