The reporters in N. Korea

[JKing106]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
This ladies were abducted near the border between China and North Korea. The story from what I've read so far is that a "guide" in their crew set these ladies up to be captured near the Chinese side of the border between North Korea and China. They did not cross over. So the whole idea that they violated North Korean law by crossing over is a total lie made up by that regime to hold onto their captives to use as bargaining chips against the US. They did not violate North Korean law because they never entered North Korea to begin with at all. They were abducted near the border.

Edit: This isn't the first time North Korea has abducted people. Kim Jong II once order the abduction of a famous South Korean director and actress in the 1978. These two didn't see freedom until they escaped in 1986. There are also about 400+ cases of South Koreans being abducted by North Korean agents.

Got any proof they were abducted?

 

[dali71]

Originally posted by: JKing106

Originally posted by: Drift3r
This ladies were abducted near the border between China and North Korea. The story from what I've read so far is that a "guide" in their crew set these ladies up to be captured near the Chinese side of the border between North Korea and China. They did not cross over. So the whole idea that they violated North Korean law by crossing over is a total lie made up by that regime to hold onto their captives to use as bargaining chips against the US. They did not violate North Korean law because they never entered North Korea to begin with at all. They were abducted near the border.

Edit: This isn't the first time North Korea has abducted people. Kim Jong II once order the abduction of a famous South Korean director and actress in the 1978. These two didn't see freedom until they escaped in 1986. There are also about 400+ cases of South Koreans being abducted by North Korean agents.

Got any proof they were abducted?

The one guy who knows what happened isn't talking. Here's an interesting viewpoint:

http://epicanthus.net/2009/06/...d-why-isnt-he-talking/

 

[jonks]

Reportedly they're being treated well, which only makes sense since they are being used as political pawns and when they are shortly released will have only nice things to say about their rovery hosts.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,531341,00.html

 

[NaughtyGeek]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
This ladies were abducted near the border between China and North Korea. The story from what I've read so far is that a "guide" in their crew set these ladies up to be captured near the Chinese side of the border between North Korea and China. They did not cross over. So the whole idea that they violated North Korean law by crossing over is a total lie made up by that regime to hold onto their captives to use as bargaining chips against the US. They did not violate North Korean law because they never entered North Korea to begin with at all. They were abducted near the border.

Edit: This isn't the first time North Korea has abducted people. Kim Jong II once order the abduction of a famous South Korean director and actress in the 1978. These two didn't see freedom until they escaped in 1986. There are also about 400+ cases of South Koreans being abducted by North Korean agents.

If that is in fact the case, then I would have a completely different take on the situation. In short, let them go within 24 hours or face the "rain." There's a very big difference between getting arrested in a country and being abducted from another.

 

[EagleKeeper]

There are links in the original thread that implicate these ladies

They had crossed the river into nk and were then attempting on getting back into China before they were captured

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
There are links in the original thread that implicate these ladies

They had crossed the river into nk and were then attempting on getting back into China before they were captured

The only allegation that they crossed over was made by North Korea itself. According to Laura Ling (one the sisters of the two captive journalist) they never entered North Korea. They were filming near a river that divides China and North Korea. The river itself form the original thread article points out that the river was frozen over and this allowed the North Koreans border guards to drive over after them. There is nowhere in that article where it states that they crossed over. The assumption that they indeed crossed over was made by folks on this forum.

 

[Hacp]

Looks like Clinton is trying to bail these illegals out. I say we let them serve out their 12 years of hard labor.http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07...diplo.html?_r=1&ref=us

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Looks like Clinton is trying to bail these illegals out. I say we let them serve out their 12 years of hard labor.http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07...diplo.html?_r=1&ref=us

Good for her. NK is the most antisocial government on the planet and cannot be believed or trusted for anything. I absolutely would take the word of these two over it and even if they did in fact go in there I'd still endorse them being freed, NK be damned. NK government is only in control because of fear and oppression, so to usurp its desires at any point is not just ok it should be encouraged.

When you play with fire, like these two probably did, you will get burned, but still...

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
There are links in the original thread that implicate these ladies

They had crossed the river into nk and were then attempting on getting back into China before they were captured

The only allegation that they crossed over was made by North Korea itself. According to Laura Ling (one the sisters of the two captive journalist) they never entered North Korea. They were filming near a river that divides China and North Korea. The river itself form the original thread article points out that the river was frozen over and this allowed the North Koreans border guards to drive over after them. There is nowhere in that article where it states that they crossed over. The assumption that they indeed crossed over was made by folks on this forum.

There are other articles out (not linked, but googled) that have them admitting that they had crossed over and were running back across the river in an attempt to get back to China's side.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
Uhhh it's not so much we should let foreigners go. The US has very humane laws compared to the rest of the world, especially in 3rd world countries. We aren't even sure EXACTLY what happened in North Korea. They were there to report on trafficking, not to spy on North Korea or blow shit up. Come on. What happens to illegal immigrants when they jump the border and get caught? They get stuffed in a van and driven back to Mexico where they try again. Yes why don't we send them to that labor camp so we dig a moat between the US and Mexico? Oh right even talks of not granting amnesty to illegal immigrants can draw up so much heat. Talk about the irony :roll:

Regardless of what they did, 12 years of labor is a freaking inhumane way to punish someone. They're US citizens and you should be just as concerned for their well being as anyone who's actually here in the states. I can't believe the responses I'm reading here. It's harsh and it's disgusting.

BTW don't mess up the quoting so I have to go and fix it myself....

It doesn't matter what happened. Their "king" could say that they go to jail because they are Americans and that is THEIR law.

The simple fact of the matter is that the "arrogant" Americans that Obama alludes to who go around the world and act as if just because they are American that countries laws don't apply to them or that country is their playground is what makes America look bad.

These two women took a risk knowing full well how it could end. Hell, one of their sisters was imprisoned FOR THE EXACT SAME THING several years ago.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
There are links in the original thread that implicate these ladies

They had crossed the river into nk and were then attempting on getting back into China before they were captured

The only allegation that they crossed over was made by North Korea itself. According to Laura Ling (one the sisters of the two captive journalist) they never entered North Korea. They were filming near a river that divides China and North Korea. The river itself form the original thread article points out that the river was frozen over and this allowed the North Koreans border guards to drive over after them. There is nowhere in that article where it states that they crossed over. The assumption that they indeed crossed over was made by folks on this forum.

There are other articles out (not linked, but googled) that have them admitting that they had crossed over and were running back across the river in an attempt to get back to China's side.

Do you seriously think they weren't coerced into admitting wrong doing by the North Koreans dangling freedom in front them? I guess if you believe that you can believe that Daniel Pearl was guilty of crimes against Islam.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
There are links in the original thread that implicate these ladies

They had crossed the river into nk and were then attempting on getting back into China before they were captured

The only allegation that they crossed over was made by North Korea itself. According to Laura Ling (one the sisters of the two captive journalist) they never entered North Korea. They were filming near a river that divides China and North Korea. The river itself form the original thread article points out that the river was frozen over and this allowed the North Koreans border guards to drive over after them. There is nowhere in that article where it states that they crossed over. The assumption that they indeed crossed over was made by folks on this forum.

There are other articles out (not linked, but googled) that have them admitting that they had crossed over and were running back across the river in an attempt to get back to China's side.

Do you seriously think they weren't coerced into admitting wrong doing by the North Koreans dangling freedom in front them? I guess if you believe that you can believe that Daniel Pearl was guilty of crimes against Islam.

Bleh, it's sad that there are people here who believe they should just live out their 12 year labor camp sentences. NK doesn't even really want to hold these people, but in doing so is just beyond inhumane. I have friends who knew Laura at UCLA and this is certainly a very tragic event because from what I hear she was not only a great friend but great journalist with true passion and dedication.

As for the playing with fire and getting burned, I'm sure many of you were pyros as kids, and I'm sure someone here or there has gotten burned. You probably just want to see them die in flames because they deserved it huh.

Yes and as for the crime itself, we don't even know if they truly commited the crime or not. There's no proof whatsoever, and NK can just as well make up crimes or claim that they stepped in whether or not they have or haven't. It's disgusting to see people just scream "BUT THEY WERE GUILTY."

Daniel Pearl was a similar unfortunate victim although the circumstances were different.

But look, whether or not the crimes were committed or not, you have to look at what NK is doing. Holding human beings in labor camp while trying to gain an edge with the US and to have us send an envoy over is unreasonable. There's a reason we say justice is blind and that is because these things should be viewed objectively. North Korea is being a stubborn pain in the ass for political reasons and not because these journalists crossed the border or are a grave threat to their nation. It's just like sometimes when you're arguing with your SO. It's not always reason that dictates the argument. It's emotion and mood that really determines why someone is angry and upset. Someone can be unreasonable today and perfectly reasonable the next. But if this is deciding the fate of 2 of our citizens then I'd say we have a responsibility to bring them back.