The Religion of Selflessness, Empathy, and Courage.

[Moonbeam]

Exactly, and AnonymouseUser is a perfect example of that... Who would Jesus condemn based on the acts of different people that looked similar?

To use the horrific acts of a small # of extremists and apply it to the whole group (whether race, religion, or any other grouping) is ridiculous. If we have a problem with Muslims because of the acts of a few nutjobs, then we have to have a problem with Christians, because of Nazis and the KKK, we have to have a problem with whites because of Stalin, we have to have a problem with Atheists because of Mao, we have to have a problem with blacks because of Idi Amin, we have to have a problem with Asians because of Pol Pot, and we have to have a problem with Latinos because of Castro. This list could go on and on. Get the point? You go after the act and the people that actually committed the act, not ALL people that look similar to the people that committed the act.

Muslim extrmeists are to Islam as the KKK and Nazis are to Christianity.

No fucking way am I doing that. If I went after people like that, imbecilic stereotyping clumpers, I'd be going after me.

 

[interchange]

I am sure most people know that bad apples always make the headlines, extremists are always in the forefront of the news and gives the religion they represent a bad name, in this case Islam. However, the solution to this problem does not start from the outside, telling people that the religion is fine and no problem. You can't sweep those types of problems under a rug and say that it is a very minor few that ruins it for everyone.

The solution has to start from within the religion if they wish to fix the perspective that uninformed people have. Muslims needs to police themselves and rid themselves of the extremists as well as those that practice the heinous acts that paints their religion in a bad color. Only then will outside perception change and the focus needs to remain there. If there are bad apples within your religion and you know about them, report them, get them arrested. Muslims need to police their own and rid themselves of the evil that is ruining their religion.

I can relate to this wish, though I am not sure I agree on the specifics of how. For instance, I have always thought that any path to meaningful progress in the middle east depends on the non-extremists taking a stand to fight extremism on their own land.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

If the Old Testament is for reference only, then why did Jesus need to be born of a virgin to die for our sins? That whole original sin part is just for reference, right?

Jesus is a plagiarization of Amon Ra, the Sun God of Egypt (hence the "Amen" at the end of prayer). Christianity borrowed heavily from existing religions to unite the people of Rome. It helps to understand a religion's origins to understand the religion itself.

 

[MongGrel]

Christians do not follow the teachings of the Old Testament. It is for reference only. They follow the teachings of Jesus who taught forgiveness and turning the other cheek. Jesus was not a warmonger like muhammed, the child rapist.

I forget offhand whether it was Kurt Vonnegut or Harlan Ellison who joked about feeling sorry for Jews for going through life with half a bible.

Probably Harlan, as he was raised Jewish to begin with.

But blither on.

Next up, probably some Zoroastrianism reference probably.

 

[Blue_Max]

Countless horrific acts have been done in the name of Jesus, down unto today. Just ask the ELEVEN doctors and nurses murdered for being pro-choice.

Fixed that for ya. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

To equate christianity to islam in regards to past violence and total violence is ludicrous. Your goal is to minimize the evils of islam and magnify the failings of Judaism and Christianity.

So the real question is WHY? As common a theme as it is today, no one is willing or able to explain this.

 

[DrunkenSano]

I can relate to this wish, though I am not sure I agree on the specifics of how. For instance, I have always thought that any path to meaningful progress in the middle east depends on the non-extremists taking a stand to fight extremism on their own land.

And this isn't just isolated to religion. We have a problem with police right now as well as a problem within the black community. Both needs to be changed from the inside for any meaningful and long term impact to happen. The police need to make some critical internal changes (along with the justice department) and the black community also need to fix some of the major issues plaguing their own people, that are dragging themselves down.

 

[Moonbeam]

I am sure most people know that bad apples always make the headlines, extremists are always in the forefront of the news and gives the religion they represent a bad name, in this case Islam. However, the solution to this problem does not start from the outside, telling people that the religion is fine and no problem. You can't sweep those types of problems under a rug and say that it is a very minor few that ruins it for everyone.

The solution has to start from within the religion if they wish to fix the perspective that uninformed people have. Muslims needs to police themselves and rid themselves of the extremists as well as those that practice the heinous acts that paints their religion in a bad color. Only then will outside perception change and the focus needs to remain there. If there are bad apples within your religion and you know about them, report them, get them arrested. Muslims need to police their own and rid themselves of the evil that is ruining their religion.

I see a lot of extremism right here in this thread, even in your post that puts the blame elsewhere. How do you propose we purge them? My castle is made of glass.

 

[Atreus21]

Just ask the doctors and nurses murdered for being pro-choice.

All 11 of them. In the last 23 years.

Murdering clinic personnel is terrorism no less than Muslims killing infidels. But to say Christianity has no less of a terrorism problem than Islam is 100% wrong.

 

[Moonbeam]

A relative of mine who knows of my respect for a particular brand of Islam as expressed via Sufism, has used that sympathy against me in my feigned war against her cats which I have been known to help her support and which also I often comment on how I hope they die, reminds me that cats are sacred in Islam because Mohamed once cut the arm of his robe off, his cat having fallen asleep on it and him not wanting to wake it.

 

[sandorski]

Christians do not follow the teachings of the Old Testament. It is for reference only. They follow the teachings of Jesus who taught forgiveness and turning the other cheek. Jesus was not a warmonger like muhammed, the child rapist.

Simply not true. History shows that it is not true.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Simply not true. History shows that it is not true.

It simply is true, but don't take my word for it; there are plenty of references online, in historical documents, and even in the New Testament that support my statement.

 

[retrospooty]

It simply is true, but don't take my word for it; there are plenty of references online, in historical documents, and even in the New Testament that support my statement.

Christians do not follow the teachings of the old testament... Or the new. Most Christians live their lives with zero similarity to the things Jesus preached. For example, would Jesus condemn 1 billion people based on the violent acts of a few?

 

[Moonbeam]

I can relate to this wish, though I am not sure I agree on the specifics of how. For instance, I have always thought that any path to meaningful progress in the middle east depends on the non-extremists taking a stand to fight extremism on their own land.

Well that is asking quite a lot from people who could have somebody with a vested interest in blowing them up for speaking out visit them any time of day. Zaap isn't the only person on earth who knows what people will do when their fanaticism is unanimously confronted.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

For example, would Jesus condemn 1 billion people based on the violent acts of a few?

No, but he would condemn an ideology that constantly produces such people, and that justifies within the "holy book" of that ideology the heinous acts those people commit.

 

[retrospooty]

No, but he would condemn an ideology that constantly produces such people, and that justifies within the "holy book" of that ideology the heinous acts those people commit.

So then he would condemn Christianity too? I typed that 1/2 joking, but now that I think about it, it is true. He absolutely would condemn Christianity. Throughout history and today as well, it operates nothing like what he taught.

 

[interchange]

Well that is asking quite a lot from people who could have somebody with a vested interest in blowing them up for speaking out visit them any time of day. Zaap isn't the only person on earth who knows what people will do when their fanaticism is unanimously confronted.

I did allude to me disagreement about the particulars of how. What do you think I'm imagining when considering fighting extremists? Perhaps you have made a common assumption.

 

[1prophet]

Two religions fighting over whose sky fairy is right and here come the apologist, supposedly enlightened pretend liberals who instead of lambasting both religions equally decide to choose sides at the expense of not the other religion but the very secular principles that allowed Western countries to progress past the evils of religion by making laws such as

"separation of religion from state, freedom of speech (which includes criticism of ALL religions), women's rights, gay rights, right to choose one's religion or even have no religion without fear of reprisal, right to marry whom one chooses, etc."

the standard and applying it equally to all, for example don't go calling burning a bible, burning a flag, criticizing an ark museum etc., etc. free speech but turn around and then call burning a Quran or criticizing Islam hate speech.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

So then he would condemn Christianity too? I typed that 1/2 joking, but now that I think about it, it is true. He absolutely would condemn Christianity. Throughout history and today as well, it operates nothing like what he taught.

He would condemn Judaism. In fact, he did condemn Judaism (or, at the very least, the Jewish leaders at the time).

 

[Moonbeam]

I did allude to me disagreement about the particulars of how. What do you think I'm imagining when considering fighting extremists? Perhaps you have made a common assumption.

Perhaps so. You said: "I can relate to this wish, though I am not sure I agree on the specifics of how. For instance, I have always thought that any path to meaningful progress in the middle east depends on the non-extremists taking a stand to fight extremism on their own land."

The way I hear the meaning of your post depends on the 'have' in 'I have always thought'. To my ear and if 'I said that it would mean I always have and still do'. If my intention were to express the notion that I used to think one way but now am not sure of that past opinion, I would have used 'had' instead of 'have', I had always thought, but maybe don't think so new.

That left me debating in my mind what words like the following could mean: "progress in the Middle East depends on the non-extremists taking a stand to fight extremists on their own land. In all the ways of fighting that I can picture as actual fighting, fighting would be suicide.

I do hear in the words "stand and fight" an open call for militantcy.

I may have made a wrong assumption but this is how I made it.

 

[bshole]

Christians do not follow the teachings of the Old Testament. It is for reference only. They follow the teachings of Jesus who taught forgiveness and turning the other cheek. Jesus was not a warmonger like muhammed, the child rapist.

Great, now can you explain that to all the Christians trying to put the Ten Commandments in front of every court house?

 

[Vic]

The rights to freedom of religious belief and to voluntary association are virtually absolute, so the relative merits of any particular religious belief (particularly from an outside perspective) have no bearing on an individual's right to hold their belief or to associate with others of the same opinion.

 

[Vic]

Two religions fighting over whose sky fairy is right and here come the apologist, supposedly enlightened pretend liberals who instead of lambasting both religions equally decide to choose sides at the expense of not the other religion but the very secular principles that allowed Western countries to progress past the evils of religion by making laws such as

"separation of religion from state, freedom of speech (which includes criticism of ALL religions), women's rights, gay rights, right to choose one's religion or even have no religion without fear of reprisal, right to marry whom one chooses, etc."

the standard and applying it equally to all, for example don't go calling burning a bible, burning a flag, criticizing an ark museum etc., etc. free speech but turn around and then call burning a Quran or criticizing Islam hate speech.

I didn't realize that there was a major party Presidential candidate running in this election who calling for a ban on Christians and Christianity in America.
There is a profound difference between simply criticizing a religion and calling for government interventions into the free exercise of a religion. The former is free speech, the latter is an attempt at unconstitutional legal action.
It is disingenuous to claim that you're merely criticizing Islam when in fact you are trying to make its practice illegal.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Great, now can you explain that to all the Christians trying to put the Ten Commandments in front of every court house?

I agree they have no place on government property, but really, these are harmless laws as opposed to all the other murderous laws from the OT. Many of those are good practices even for non-believers.

 

[piasabird]

Yet another anti--religious hatred post. Is this the new KKK?

Countless horrific acts have been done in the name of Jesus, down unto today. Just ask the doctors and nurses murdered for being pro-choice.

One has only to leaf through the Old Testament of the Bible to see the many injunctions to kill or enslave human beings for what seem to the sane and civilized to be trivial acts.

The same is true in the Quran. Wholesale demonization of the entire religion of Islam and its adherents is wrong, ignorant, and most important, not in our own self interest.

This article helps explain why.

 

[Perknose]

Yet another anti--religious hatred post. Is this the new KKK?

Jesus, you're stupid. Get someone with an IQ over 75 to explain the gist of my OP to you. Even in grade school, your present level of reading comprehension would get you crucified.