The reason for America's downturn:

[raildogg]

It's funny (not really) how we put guns and gods together - like they're a perfect couple. We don't know anything about god and yet we are projecting our ideas onto him?

 

[nehalem256]

people around the world buy US treasures for no apparent reason.

US treasuries are a safe-haven. With all the fear about a potential US shutdown/default people are looking for a safe place to put their money.:sneaky:

 

[boomerang]

ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country

I couldn't even imagine a Democrat giving that speech today. It's easy to say nothing has changed but in the last 52 years wow, a lot has changed.

 

[Spungo]

US treasuries are a safe-haven. With all the fear about a potential US shutdown/default people are looking for a safe place to put their money.:sneaky:

It's really sad when I can say buying shares of Coca Cola or IBM is safer than buying US treasuries :\

 

[nehalem256]

It's really sad when I can say buying shares of Coca Cola or IBM is safer than buying US treasuries :\

I think its sadder when the threat of a US government default makes people buy US government debt.

If that doesn't say how screwed up the financial system is I don't know what does.

 

[StinkyPinky]

I think people overlook that the world is a lot more competitive these days

The US probably had peak global power in the 1990s, but it was probably more dominant from an economic POV in the 50's and 60s. Part of the reason is that Europe was still reeling from WW2, and Asia was still stuck in the 19th century way of thinking.

Well, that's all changed. Europe has its own problems, many of which mirror what America has. However they're certainly in a better state than they were in the 1950s. Germany until recently was the largest exporter in the world. Germany is a perfect example of a highly advanced western economy that still has a strong manufacturing base. New York City used to easily be the leading financial powerhouse on the globe, but many analysts now suggest London has overtaken it. Or at least pushing it hard.

Then you move over to Asia. In the 1950's, China was a non-entity from an economic point of view. Now they're the worlds #2 economy. Japan and Korea has huge manufacturing outputs and a highly skilled and educated workforce that aren't afraid of hard work.

I think people need to accept that the world is not going to sit around in awe of the US and just shrug their shoulders and say "well done USA, you win forever". Of course they're going to improve their game and try and compete, and some countries have done so. The US needs to muster its considerable resources and stop screwing itself over with partisan politics and religious bullshit. God, can't help you. You need to help yourself. You think the Germans and Koreans think about this religious stuff?

 

[Lithium381]

If there were more options for schools I think we would do better. As said the government system is somewhat rigid and some kids don't do well in that setting. Some parents would prefer a school that taught particular values, etc....

it's somewhat hard to get accredited by the government as a private school because then you're competing with the government schools. capitalism would apply here, and i believe it would do well. kids could go to the schools and we'd see how they fare against government schools.
the whole mandatory attendance thing i think is a load of bull, too.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Written by a christian socalist Baptist minister in 1891. "Under God" not added until the mid 50s.




I was told I was going to hell multiple times by different religious organizations because I didn't' belong to their particular one. That was well also before I told them I was gay. Yes, I expected more.




We successfully broke away from England largely due to the vast buffer of the Atlantic, the French who were looking to throw a wrench into the English effort as a proxy war, a mountain of money borrowed from Europe, and the fact that England faced other concerns while the US revolution drained their resources.



Trying to pass legislation while talking about god results in backlash. A bunch of out of touch old white men who should be in a retirement home rather than in Congress legislating morality is not a good thing.





Rhetorical nonsense that pines for a simpler/better time that didn't really exist. Exactly the kind of drivel the Tea Party is feeding it's followers with a shovel.

So I guess now is not the time to take a few moments to talk about your Lord and savior? You seem pretty bitter about a belief of someone else. Why worry so much about it?

 

[woolfe9998]

Contrary to common perception, there isn't all that much objectively wrong. Crime is down overall. The economy is poor by our standards but really not poor at all. Yet too many of us are unhappy.

We're unhappy because we've reached what we think is the pinnacle of civilization and we wonder...is this all there is, shallow materialism? We have nothing to believe in so we turn to religion, political extremism, nihilism, drugs, hedonism, racism, etc. Depression occurs where expectations and reality collide.

God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables – slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars, but we won't. We're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off. -Tyler Durden.

 

[Engineer]

From: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation

Wie geht es Dir?

Uno

Thanks for that. Great reading.

 

[JD50]

OP what is this better time that you're talking about?

 

[CountZero]

Nobody is responsible for anything. How can people just walk away from a mortgage without declaring total bankruptcy? I don't think any other country operates like this. I know people in Canada can't do that. When reading why Canadian banks never fail, one of the reasons was that people can't walk away from a house. The bank will sue them into the ground and garnish wages if that's what it takes.

This bit caught my eye as I had never heard of such a thing. Turns out you are both right and wrong.

38 states have recourse and operate exactly as you describe. Only 12 have no recourse, surprising amongst those 12 are both CA and TX. So whatever reason for having no recourse it doesn't look at first glance like a liberal/conservative slant.

The recourse is only the difference in mortgage to short sale. So it is targeted at underwater property (which is was most people walking away likely are) and in Canada it is dischargeable in bankruptcy, I'm guessing that is the same for US states.

While looking this stuff up I did come across an article about Canadian mortgages and why their banks have less issue. The main points were:
- All PMI paid up front if <20% deposit.
- Stricter lending in general
- 25 year adjustable rate loans is the norm so an incentive to pay off faster
- No mortgage interest deduction (more incentive to pay off faster)
- Low income families are not encouraged to buy. Federal money goes towards affordable rental housing instead of propping up a sub prime lending scheme

Basically in Canada those that buy are typically more financially sound to begin with and have incentives to pay off quickly and thus end up with more equity even if the house value drops.

Thought it was interesting, figure I'd share.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Reasons for America's Decline:

1. Global Labor Arbitrage -- foreign outsourcing, importing foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas, and mass immigration.

2. Free Market Dogmatism and a unflinching belief in the Just World Hypothesis and Meritocracy.

3. Health Care. We have the most antiquated, inefficient, ineffective, and expensive health care system of any first world nation.

 

[shadow9d9]

Bwahahahaha, this coming from a liberal finally admitting facts. Oh really? Shootings are down? Please, do tell more :biggrin:

We still have the highest gun related deaths of the first world countries... Are you really that dense?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

We are between Mexico and Argentina...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Wrong. Education. More specifically, the utter contempt the majority of our citizens have for education.

I just love it when ignorance abounds.....

 

[shadow9d9]

I just love it when ignorance abounds.....

You said nothing of substance here. If you want to challenge his claim, at least put some effort into it... Not some information-less one liner.

 

[Agent11]

It isn't god and guns. It is economic and trade policy. With a bit of geopolitics on the side.

 

[OGOC]

We still have the highest gun related deaths of the first world countries... Are you really that dense?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

We are between Mexico and Argentina...

Crime is down in the U.S. despite having more guns than ever and the freest carry laws in decades.

The UK's homicide rate stayed about the same after passing their restrictive gun laws. But violent crime went up.

Japan hates guns yet has a higher suicide rate than the U.S. Since we're linking guns with everything else, logic says Japan should encourage more gun ownership if it wants to lower its number of suicides.

Let's get real honest here... most homicide in the U.S. comes from a small segment of the population, and a lot of it is related to gang activity. If guns were the real problem, then the data would be spread more evenly across the U.S. population. But it's not.

 

[Subyman]

I think every generation says America is worse off than when they were a kid. The fact is, when we were kids we were looking at America through a child's eyes. Uncle Sam, big military, an unstoppable force. As you get older, you see its just a bunch of people working in the same area under common laws.

 

[sandorski]

Lynch Mobs and Wife Beatings are the real thing missing. You still have "God" and Guns, so I really don't understand what you're ranting about.

 

[Exterous]

it's somewhat hard to get accredited by the government as a private school because then you're competing with the government schools. capitalism would apply here, and i believe it would do well. kids could go to the schools and we'd see how they fare against government schools.

It depends on the state and usually isn't all that difficult. While the most recent study did find some slight gains in quality over public:

the study finds an overall small positive effect of being in a charter school.

It did also note that this is not conclusive of a better system:

Further, the evidence shows that new schools are not themselves
responsible for improved quality. These findings were consistent in 14 of the 16 states. In a recent study, we called this phenomenon WYSIWYG - what you see is what you get.37 These results make clear that the drive to higher levels of performance will not be rapid or even attainable if left exclusively to the schools themselves

It should also be noted that careful attention needs to be made when comparing charter\private schools with public. Most (all?) states do not require charter\private schools to offer accommodations to students with special needs and allow them to decline applicants while public schools are required to take everyone

https://credo.stanford.edu/documents/NCSS%202013%20Final%20Draft.pdf

the whole mandatory attendance thing i think is a load of bull, too.

Why?

Contrary to common perception, there isn't all that much objectively wrong. Crime is down overall. The economy is poor by our standards but really not poor at all. Yet too many of us are unhappy.

We're unhappy because we've reached what we think is the pinnacle of civilization and we wonder...is this all there is, shallow materialism? We have nothing to believe in so we turn to religion, political extremism, nihilism, drugs, hedonism, racism, etc. Depression occurs where expectations and reality collide.

I think there is a lot of truth to this and that the information we receive reinforces the materialism and negativity. We are constantly bombarded with negative news while our entertainment shows revolve around people living expensive\consumer driven lives. We love to hear about those who get rich quick and think that should be common but never pay attention to those that didn't manage their wealth well. I also think we expect a certain level of 'easiness' to our lives

 

[shadow9d9]

Crime is down in the U.S. despite having more guns than ever and the freest carry laws in decades.

The UK's homicide rate stayed about the same after passing their restrictive gun laws. But violent crime went up.

Japan hates guns yet has a higher suicide rate than the U.S. Since we're linking guns with everything else, logic says Japan should encourage more gun ownership if it wants to lower its number of suicides.

Let's get real honest here... most homicide in the U.S. comes from a small segment of the population, and a lot of it is related to gang activity. If guns were the real problem, then the data would be spread more evenly across the U.S. population. But it's not.

You bring up unrelated info like suicides and all crime. Guns are a real problem... They are efficient killer which is why our mass killers accomplish their goals while the ones with knives in china kill no one.

 

[IBMer]

Could you imagine how awesome our economy would be if companies like Intel and Apple had kept all manufacturing in America... things might be a bit more expensive and CEOs might not be making 300x the average worker, but the world would likely still be buying it up and there would still be a strong middle class spending money which really helps out the whole economy.

 

[werepossum]

Contrary to common perception, there isn't all that much objectively wrong. Crime is down overall. The economy is poor by our standards but really not poor at all. Yet too many of us are unhappy.

We're unhappy because we've reached what we think is the pinnacle of civilization and we wonder...is this all there is, shallow materialism? We have nothing to believe in so we turn to religion, political extremism, nihilism, drugs, hedonism, racism, etc. Depression occurs where expectations and reality collide.

Well said, sir. Compared to the seventies, things are better almost across the board, except maybe for our percentage on disability and our trade balance. I think mostly what's changed is our increasing entitlement mentality. When you have a woman with a household income of $70K asking a Presidential candidate "What are you going to do for me?" and everyone around her nodding their heads, you've got a basic societal problem. That problem colors our expectations, so that even though things aren't THAT bad, our expectations have grown disproportionately to our ability to meet those expectations.

 

[KlokWyze]

The reason for america's downturn is very simple. The empire and money is declining, especially for ignorant fools who think that owning a gun and believing in deities will make them "good people".

At least the GOP is unraveling. Maybe some real independents can step in fill the vacuum.