The real victims of the middle east conflict

Wallydraigle

Banned
Nov 27, 2000
10,754
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1) Can't tell, there's nothing in the picture to suggest either choice. It could be a tank, or it could be something else.

2) Again, no way to tell. All you see is someone hiding. They don't tell you why they are hiding, or who they are hiding from.

3) Don't think so.

4) What's the point again?
 

LaBang

Golden Member
Jan 31, 2001
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<< 1) Can't tell, there's nothing in the picture to suggest either choice. It could be a tank, or it could be something else.

2) Again, no way to tell. All you see is someone hiding. They don't tell you why they are hiding, or who they are hiding from.

3) Don't think so.

4) What's the point again?
>>



The point is that this conflict is between the israeli army and Hamas and the people doing the jihad. There are lots of innocent people that are being confined to their homes on both sides.
 

SmackdownHotel

Golden Member
May 19, 2000
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I'm sure one of the many resident fascists on this board will come up with an alternate meaning. Just give it some time.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
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it's not accurate.

you can usually see tanks coming a mile off. you can't always see terrorists bombers till it's too late. when will you IDIOTS get it thru your head that Terrorists using civilians to kill civilians is NOT THE SAME THING AS A MILITARY ACTION.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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<< it's not accurate.

you can usually see tanks coming a mile off. you can't always see terrorists bombers till it's too late. when will you IDIOTS get it thru your head that Terrorists using civilians to kill civilians is NOT THE SAME THING AS A MILITARY ACTION.
>>


but why does it matter when the end result is the same, civilians get killed.
and I guess we can call you a resident fascist, according to what SmackdownHotel wrote
 

Optimus

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2000
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Platinum:

I think that they are just different types of soldiers in a stupid and hate-filled conflict. If the Palestinians could afford tanks they would be in them. If the Israeli's could not afford Tanks they'd be guerilla-warfaring too. (Not sure if suicide bombers though).

SmackdownHotel:


<< I'm sure one of the many resident fascists on this board will come up with an alternate meaning. Just give it some time. >>


Labelling anyone who disagrees with you on such a difficult, complex, and ever-changing issue like this a "facist" not only takes away from the power of the word, but reeks of poor debate skills and lack of reason.

Czar - I'm surprised you would lend credence to SmackDownHotel's labelling (unless your post was sarcasm).
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
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when will you IDIOTS get it thru your head that Terrorists using civilians to kill civilians is NOT THE SAME THING AS A MILITARY ACTION.

Dude you gotta take this and make another take sides thread don't you. As for your point tho..........neverfvcknmind its pointless. :|


/edit. Nice cartoon, true.
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
16
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<<
but why does it matter when the end result is the same, civilians get killed.
>>



It matters, because Israel is trying to protect it's own civillians from getting murdered by terrorists and yes, regretfully, civillians get killed. But they're NOT TRYING TO DO THAT! The Palestinians are TRYING to kill even MORE civillians. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
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OK czar

you explain to me how anyone can "hide" from suicide bombers.

the result is NOT the same. Hitting military targets w/ Civilian casualties does not result in the same kind of civilian casualties as Hitting civilian targets with the intent to hit civilians.

The irony of this WHOLE debacle is, your probably have a Healthy dose of respect for Ghandi and Ghandi would never have approved of Palestinian Action.

Your bottom line argument has always been, save lives at all costs. the truth is sometimes people must die in order for STUPID leaders to finally come to their senses. The palestinians and the Arab leadership in general must first come to terms with the fact that ISREAL is there to stay. once that happens you can talk peace. WITHOUT a complete agreement by ALL arab leaders acknowledging ISREAL SOVEREIGNTY and ISREALS RIGHT TO REMAIN THERE, Isreal would be foolish to attempt any kind of Peace.

You sound a lot like


<< << Members of the Norwegian committee that awards the annual Nobel Peace Prize have launched an unprecedented verbal assault on Israeli Foreign Minister and Nobel peace laureate Shimon Peres.

Mr Peres accepted the peace prize jointly with the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and Israel's late prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin, in 1994.

In an interview with a Norwegian newspaper, committee members said they regretted that Mr Peres' prize could not be recalled because, as a member of the Israeli cabinet, he had not acted to prevent Israel's re-occupation of Palestinian territory.

One member said Mr Peres had not lived up to the ideals he expressed when he accepted the prize.

"What is happening today in Palestine is grotesque and unbelievable," said Hanna Kvanmo.

"Peres is responsible, as part of the government. He has expressed his agreement with what [Israeli Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon is doing," she said.

If he had not agreed with Sharon, then he would have withdrawn from the government."

Oslo Bishop Gunnar Stalsett, a committee member for the past eight years, describes as "absurd" what he sees as the involvement of a Nobel laureate in human rights abuses.

Other committee members argue that the Israeli government's actions in general and Mr Peres' involvement in particular are threatening to bring the prize into disrepute.

Ms Kvanmo said however that "at the time, it was a correct decision" to honour Peres.

"He was the one of the three that really deserved the prize, because he took the initiative to the talks that led to the Oslo accords," she said.

Committee chairman Geir Lundestad voiced the concern of several members that if Mr Arafat were to be killed as a result of Israeli actions, one Nobel laureate might in effect be said to have killed the other.
>>
>>



If peace is to come to the Middle east IT MUST START WITH THE ARABS ACCEPTING THAT ISREAL IS THERE TO STAY.

In Isreal, Isrealies are the Recognized government and as such they have the RIGHT to protect their citizens from Terrorists.

If that makes me a fascist, LONG LIVE FASCISM.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
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<< I think that they are just different types of soldiers in a stupid and hate-filled conflict. If the Palestinians could afford tanks they would be in them. If the Israeli's could not afford Tanks they'd be guerilla-warfaring too. (Not sure if suicide bombers though).
>>



Optimus Palestine can't afford these things because Palestine DOESN'T EXIST. As it stands now, Isreal is the ONLY GOVERNMENT in that part of the country. Read my previous post.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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Optimus,
it was sarcasm... neeed sarcasm tag:p

ThePresence,
Protecting the lives of some by killing others that are no threat to them, thats some "protection"

PlatinumGold,
Maybe the palestinians are just trying to get to the army guys or the right wing politicians, but to bad civilians get in the way, but thats ok because the goal is to get the other "evil people" ... and oh yeah that is sarcasm:frown:
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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<< IT MUST START WITH THE ARABS ACCEPTING THAT ISREAL IS THERE TO STAY. >>


I agree, and that is what their peace propsal offered
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
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Editing response because i only saw the sarcasm response from czar not the second one.

peace offer from whom? Before you even get to a peace offer there should be an official cease fire. has arafat ever attempted that? no, well no because he can't.

that's the danger of allowing terrorism to get any kind of stranglehold. they must first eliminate the terrorist, whether that be via death, imprisonment or proof that arafat can control them. then you can talk peace.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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<< when will you IDIOTS get it thru your head that Terrorists using civilians to kill civilians is NOT THE SAME THING AS A MILITARY ACTION. >>

Hmmm that sounds like an Idiotic statement considering the situation Plat. Not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas or Hezbollah. Just because they hate Israel doesn't mean they are killing innocent Israeli Civilians. There are those in the Israeli government (fringe groups) that would like nothing more than to declare all out war on the Palestinian people whether they are Terrorists or not and would use lethal force as a means to achieve their goal. Of course they are a small minority...probably the same size minority that are Hamas or Hezbollah make up in the general Palestinian population. The difference is they (the Radical Israeli groups) are prevented from acting on their wishes were as Hamas and Hezbollah do as they please due to the weak and ineffective leadership of Arafat.

As for this being an accurate picture, maybe Plat has a point. The Suicide Bombing is extremely random so hiding in your house in total fear isn?t that necessary for ones own survival. On the other hand the tanks rolling into the Palestinians towns are manned by Soldiers who are under orders to kill the enemy and the odds of you getting caught in the cross fire between the Palestinean Terrorist and the Irraeli Troops or even being shot by a jumpy Israeli soldier would be great. With that in mind I?d have to say it would be much more frightening to be the Palestinian family (not that going to the market in any Israeli town would be a walk in the park these days.)
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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PlatinumGold,
I was just using your logic that you have on the Israeli attacks on the palestinian attacks. As long as the IDF doesnt care if civilians are killed and stop people from helping wounded civilians then they are in the same position as the palestinian terrorists, targeting civilians.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
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<< was just using your logic that you have on the Israeli attacks on the palestinian attacks. As long as the IDF doesnt care if civilians are killed and stop people from helping wounded civilians then they are in the same position as the palestinian terrorists, targeting civilians.
>>



in an armed conflict between two armed forces it is easier to target just military personell. Palestine isn't a country with an army. They attack via CIVILIAN terrorists, so yes, civilians are the target, but it's the Palestinians that set up the situation by using CIVILIAN TERRORISTS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

once again, you have not responded to the Idea of what would GHANDI DO if he were a Palestinian?
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
Thank God some people around here aren't in charge of the military because they seem to think if you strap on a buncha camouflage fatiques and some ugly black boots and jump in a 10 million dollar tank, you're legit and have a gold card to play counter strike till you're out of ammo. Whatever, fly your flags whenever we bomb anyone anywhere and jerkoff when you watch Top Gun but don't expect everyone to agree with that crap.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
PlatinumGold,
Exactly, the Palestinians have only one way of using force against the Israelis and that is this "terrorism", if they had an army they would most likely use it, but they dont so we are comparing the Israelis way of using force to the Palestinian way of using force.

Too bad the leaders of both Israel and Palestine dont take the Ghandi way:frown:
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71


<< Hmmm that sounds like an Idiotic statement considering the situation Plat. Not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas or Hezbollah. Just because they hate Israel doesn't mean they are killing innocent Israeli Civilians. There are those in the Israeli government (fringe groups) that would like nothing more than to declare all out war on the Palestinian people whether they are Terrorists or not and would use lethal force as a means to achieve their goal. Of course they are a small minority...probably the same size minority that are Hamas or Hezbollah make up in the general Palestinian population. The difference is they (the Radical Israeli groups) are prevented from acting on their wishes were as Hamas and Hezbollah do as they please due to the weak and ineffective leadership of Arafat.
>>



actually you read a lot into my post that i never put there. How many of the terrorist suicide bombers looked like anything other than a civilian when they went to kill. and yes, their intent was too kill.

Isreal as a country has the right to protect herself. the irony above all ironies here, is that if the US had just released The Leash that we hold on Isreal years ago, this confict would have already been resolved. Quit bashing the US. the US did not create the situation. the US doesn't dictate policies to Isreal, although it is VERY influential. Unfortunately there isn't someone influencing the Arabs to accept isreal and there is the crux of the problem. Isreal is always on the defensive.



<< One member said Mr Peres had not lived up to the ideals he expressed when he accepted the prize. >>



SO it is just perez that is quilty of not attaining Peace in the Middle East, arafat and the ARABS did ALL THEY COULD. this is the type of bias i get from you peacelovers and yet you claim i'm a fascist (oh the irony of that statement) and that i'm biased?
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71


<< Too bad the leaders of both Israel and Palestine dont take the Ghandi w >>



what a copout. do you think the British took ghandi's way when he started his movement for INDIA. are you really that dense.

here is the reality of the SITUATION.

ISREAL has the Military and the Political POWER in Isreal. Palestinians can either accept that and try to change things Peacefully or accept it and not change things at all. their choice for TERRORISM is NOT AN ACCEPTABLE CHOICE. I'm not a supporter of killing people randomly as some of you want to imply. I'm not a blood thirsty BOAR.

but PALESTINIANS are initiating the action. Given the SITUATION of the PALESTINIANS, terrorism is the WRONG CHOICE. ASK GHANDI.

CZAR BEING THE PEACENIK that you claimed to be, you of all people should understand this.
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
16
81


<<

<< when will you IDIOTS get it thru your head that Terrorists using civilians to kill civilians is NOT THE SAME THING AS A MILITARY ACTION. >>

Hmmm that sounds like an Idiotic statement considering the situation Plat. Not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas or Hezbollah. Just because they hate Israel doesn't mean they are killing innocent Israeli Civilians. There are those in the Israeli government (fringe groups) that would like nothing more than to declare all out war on the Palestinian people whether they are Terrorists or not and would use lethal force as a means to achieve their goal. Of course they are a small minority...probably the same size minority that are Hamas or Hezbollah make up in the general Palestinian population. The difference is they (the Radical Israeli groups) are prevented from acting on their wishes were as Hamas and Hezbollah do as they please due to the weak and ineffective leadership of Arafat.

As for this being an accurate picture, maybe Plat has a point. The Suicide Bombing is extremely random so hiding in your house in total fear isn?t that necessary for ones own survival. On the other hand the tanks rolling into the Palestinians towns are manned by Soldiers who are under orders to kill the enemy and the odds of you getting caught in the cross fire between the Palestinean Terrorist and the Irraeli Troops or even being shot by a jumpy Israeli soldier would be great. With that in mind I?d have to say it would be much more frightening to be the Palestinian family (not that going to the market in any Israeli town would be a walk in the park these days.)
>>



Ignorance must be bliss. You have no idea what it's like to live under the threat of terrorism. I just got off the phone with an Israeli buddy of mine, he tells me that no one is going to the stores, the streets are empty etc.
If Israel wanted to wipe out the Palestinians without regard of their terrorist affiliation, it would be the easiest thing in the world, and would take about a day. Obviously, that's not what Israel wants to do. And because of that , they risk the lives of their own soldiers to try and find ONLY the terrorists. Yes, civillians got killed. Thats what happens in war, and it's tragic. But the Palestinian "government" brought it uopn their people. Israel had to respond like this and at least attempt to wipe out the terrorist infrastructure instead of just sitting on their hands and watching their civillians get blown to little bits. I know you (Red Dawn) understood this. I'm just trying to make it clear to those who dont.