The REAL reason OS X 10.5 "Leopard" is late...

[AmigaMan]

Apple is going to Open Source OS X and quit both the PC hardware and software part of it's business. They've realized they're never going to overtake MS. Witness the release of the iPod, the iPhone, changing their name from Apple Computer to just Apple, the focus on the iTunes Store, and the biggest thing, the switch to Intel processors. I think that was the final nail in the Mac coffin. Jobs knows that margins are thin in the PC arena and they can make more money trying to be the next Sony. I foresee an "Apple Living Room" complete with Apple branded HD TV's, stereo equipment, speakers, and DVR.

As a Mac user, this saddens me. But the thought of an open-source OSX makes me feel a little better. Discuss...

 

[ScrapSilicon]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Discuss...

ubuntu

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Shens

- M4H

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: ScrapSilicon

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Discuss...

ubuntu

Ubuntu is nice, but ugly. But that's hardly their fault, Gnome is an ugly beast of a WM. Besides, Ubuntu barely works right with laptops. Hibernation, sleep, ATI chipsets, etc. all are better on a Mac.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: ScrapSilicon

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Discuss...

ubuntu

Ubuntu is nice, but ugly. But that's hardly their fault, Gnome is an ugly beast of a WM. Besides, Ubuntu barely works right with laptops. Hibernation, sleep, ATI chipsets, etc. all are better on a Mac.

Use Compiz, and it's not like OSX can support loads of hardware.

 

[Tegeril]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Apple is going to Open Source OS X and quit both the PC hardware and software part of it's business. They've realized they're never going to overtake MS. Witness the release of the iPod, the iPhone, changing their name from Apple Computer to just Apple, the focus on the iTunes Store, and the biggest thing, the switch to Intel processors. I think that was the final nail in the Mac coffin. Jobs knows that margins are thin in the PC arena and they can make more money trying to be the next Sony. I foresee an "Apple Living Room" complete with Apple branded HD TV's, stereo equipment, speakers, and DVR.

As a Mac user, this saddens me. But the thought of an open-source OSX makes me feel a little better. Discuss...

Never, not going to happen.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: BlameCanada
Use Compiz, and it's not like OSX can support loads of hardware.

I tried XGL in the early days, and saw a lot of potential. Unfortunately, that has largely been squandered on gaudy and useless effects that only slow down the user (despite running "well" on average graphics cards thanks to XGL's efficiency). OS X and Vista (to a lesser degree) have some concept of modesty in the use of animation and translucency. XGL might be capable of this, I suppose, if one were to invest a good quantity of time into tweaking compiz to be less obnoxious.

And for the record, Apple is not going to open source OS X. They will also not release OS X for non-Apple PCs.

 

[n0cmonkey]

It'll take another 5 years to kill off the Macintosh line.

And OS X is kind of open source already...

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Shens

- M4H

 

[erikistired]

i'm hearing rumors of built in windows virtualization like parallels. apparently it's taking them a bit longer to make it all work, but they can't say that after talking so much smack about microsoft and their delays.

 

[MedicBob]

Wasn't April's Fool Day 13 days ago?

 

[Nothinman]

Apple is going to Open Source OS X and quit both the PC hardware and software part of it's business. They've realized they're never going to overtake MS.

That makes no sense sine it's not like those two things are mutually exclusive...

and the biggest thing, the switch to Intel processors. I think that was the final nail in the Mac coffin.

I take it you're ignoring the switch from m68k to PPC? Because it's not like this is the first time Apple has pulled something like that.

As a Mac user, this saddens me. But the thought of an open-source OSX makes me feel a little better. Discuss...

If Apple was going to open source things like their crappy UI they would have done it already and even if they did it's not like anyone would pick it up since Xorg is good enough already.

Ubuntu is nice, but ugly. But that's hardly their fault, Gnome is an ugly beast of a WM. Besides, Ubuntu barely works right with laptops. Hibernation, sleep, ATI chipsets, etc. all are better on a Mac.

Depends on your laptop and it's not even usually Ubuntu's fault there's issues. My laptop does cpufreq and hibernation just fine.

I tried XGL in the early days, and saw a lot of potential. Unfortunately, that has largely been squandered on gaudy and useless effects that only slow down the user (despite running "well" on average graphics cards thanks to XGL's efficiency). OS X and Vista (to a lesser degree) have some concept of modesty in the use of animation and translucency. XGL might be capable of this, I suppose, if one were to invest a good quantity of time into tweaking compiz to be less obnoxious.

That's how things always start out, when something new is released everyone pokes at it releasing useless stuff to see what they can do but eventually that stuff gets forgotten and the useful things rise to the top. And Vista is more than modest it's API is downright limiting, there's a lot of things possible with AIGLX/XGL that are impossible (or at least impossible to do effeciently) with the anemic API that MS made available. And AFAIK you have to turn on the obnoxious stuff in compiz not vice versa so what's the problem?

And OS X is kind of open source already...

Kinda, sorta, not really.

 

[AmigaMan]

sorry guys, I was a little drunk when I wrote that and was lamenting 10.5's lateness. Anyways, Nothinman made some good points. Perhaps it's time I tried out Ubuntu again on my Dell laptop. I quit at 5.10, so it's been a while. However, I take offense to calling OSX's UI crappy. It's much better than the turd brown that Ubuntu has. Besides, how is not supporting laptops correctly NOT Ubuntu's fault? No Linux OS has supported laptops the way OSX and Windows have. I close my lid, I expect it to sleep or hibernate. I open the lid, I expect it to wake and find the proper wireless network. No Linux OS has ever done that out of the box. Even if you know what you're doing, and have edited the appropriate number of config files (probably around 100, it still doesn't "Just Work".

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
sorry guys, I was a little drunk when I wrote that and was lamenting 10.5's lateness. Anyways, Nothinman made some good points. Perhaps it's time I tried out Ubuntu again on my Dell laptop. I quit at 5.10, so it's been a while. However, I take offense to calling OSX's UI crappy. It's much better than the turd brown that Ubuntu has. Besides, how is not supporting laptops correctly NOT Ubuntu's fault? No Linux OS has supported laptops the way OSX and Windows have. I close my lid, I expect it to sleep or hibernate. I open the lid, I expect it to wake and find the proper wireless network. No Linux OS has ever done that out of the box. Even if you know what you're doing, and have edited the appropriate number of config files (probably around 100, it still doesn't "Just Work".

Nothinman doesn't like the UI in general, not just the theme. It's personal opinion, deal.

ACPI is junk. It's a loose standard that no one follows, even when it makes sense. If there was only one laptop manufacturer and all of their parts were pretty much the same you'd see excellent Linux support.

I think sleep or whatever worked out of the box on my averatec (can't remember and it's turned off at the moment), and definitely worked out of the box on my 5+ year old thinkpad.

 

[Nothinman]

However, I take offense to calling OSX's UI crappy. It's much better than the turd brown that Ubuntu has.

It's way too limiting, you either have to learn how to do everything the way Apple says is best or not use it. Things like the unified menu bar and the fact that clicking the close button a window doesn't actually quit the app but just kills that one window is retarded.

Besides, how is not supporting laptops correctly NOT Ubuntu's fault? No Linux OS has supported laptops the way OSX and Windows have.

Because they're still at the mercy of the hardware manufacturers and the people doing the kernel work to support all of that broken hardware. On my notebook hibernation is a lot more reliable in Linux than in Windows, in Win2K (maybe XP, I can't remember for sure since I haven't had Windows on there in a long time) it would fail to hibernate if I had FF running. Just FF, I could close everything else and it would still fail but as soon as I closed FF it would hibernate just fine but what's the point of hibernation if you can't leave your apps running?

I close my lid, I expect it to sleep or hibernate. I open the lid, I expect it to wake and find the proper wireless network.

I don't. When I close the lid I'm usually not going far and I'd rather it stay running. I do expect to to hibernate automatically if the battery gets too low and it's not plugged in but that does indeed work for me.

 

[InlineFive]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
I don't. When I close the lid I'm usually not going far and I'd rather it stay running. I do expect to to hibernate automatically if the battery gets too low and it's not plugged in but that does indeed work for me.

Pardon me for going off the road but isn't that bad for your hard drive?

 

[Nothinman]

Nothinman doesn't like the UI in general, not just the theme. It's personal opinion, deal.

It also annoys me when people praise it as the one true UI that's so simple everyone should love it. It's missing a handful of little features that I use in my WM every day so how is it better if it causes me extra work just to remain simple?

 

[Nothinman]

Pardon me for going off the road but isn't that bad for your hard drive?

As long as I don't drop it or jerk it around to make the heads crash or something I don't see how.

 

[spyordie007]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Pardon me for going off the road but isn't that bad for your hard drive?

As long as I don't drop it or jerk it around to make the heads crash or something I don't see how.

It varies drive to drive, but it's not uncommon for notebook drives to be able to withstand 200+Gs worth of shock while operating.

I also just close the lid to my laptop as I move around, I usually will wait until I need to put it away that I'll go into standby.

Also I run a utility that monitors an inertial sensor and parks the drive heads if there is a lot of vibration, don't know for sure if there are utilities for Linux that take advantage of this but am assuming that someone has one.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
sorry guys, I was a little drunk when I wrote that and ...

OMFG that hit me right in the funny button. You could insert anything after it and it would be hilarious. I think that's the first time I've read that on Anandtech (although possibly not the first time it's happened)

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
sorry guys, I was a little drunk when I wrote that and was lamenting 10.5's lateness. Anyways, Nothinman made some good points. Perhaps it's time I tried out Ubuntu again on my Dell laptop. I quit at 5.10, so it's been a while. However, I take offense to calling OSX's UI crappy. It's much better than the turd brown that Ubuntu has. Besides, how is not supporting laptops correctly NOT Ubuntu's fault? No Linux OS has supported laptops the way OSX and Windows have. I close my lid, I expect it to sleep or hibernate. I open the lid, I expect it to wake and find the proper wireless network. No Linux OS has ever done that out of the box. Even if you know what you're doing, and have edited the appropriate number of config files (probably around 100, it still doesn't "Just Work".

I'll admit that default Ubuntu is pretty bland and ugly but at least it's clean. OS X looks very cartoon-ish and IMO wastes desktop space.

As far as support, many of my programs and peripherals are completely unsupported in OS X. A quality Usenet browser and my Logitech Fusion cam and Garmin GPS come to mind right now.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
sorry guys, I was a little drunk when I wrote that and was lamenting 10.5's lateness. Anyways, Nothinman made some good points. Perhaps it's time I tried out Ubuntu again on my Dell laptop. I quit at 5.10, so it's been a while. However, I take offense to calling OSX's UI crappy. It's much better than the turd brown that Ubuntu has. Besides, how is not supporting laptops correctly NOT Ubuntu's fault? No Linux OS has supported laptops the way OSX and Windows have. I close my lid, I expect it to sleep or hibernate. I open the lid, I expect it to wake and find the proper wireless network. No Linux OS has ever done that out of the box. Even if you know what you're doing, and have edited the appropriate number of config files (probably around 100, it still doesn't "Just Work".

I would like to close the lid on my laptop, and NOT have the stupid thing go to sleep. YOU'RE PLUGGED IN, YOU'RE RUNNING A TASK, WHY DID YOU GO TO SLEEP?!?!?

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: Brazen
I would like to close the lid on my laptop, and NOT have the stupid thing go to sleep. YOU'RE PLUGGED IN, YOU'RE RUNNING A TASK, WHY DID YOU GO TO SLEEP?!?!?

<computer>sigh, I went to sleep because you closed my lid silly human. If you didn't want me to go to sleep, why did you close my lid? When the great bunny rabbit in the sky made me, they decided that when my lid was closed, it meant I was about to be moved, you know because I'm a portable computer and all.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: Brazen
I would like to close the lid on my laptop, and NOT have the stupid thing go to sleep. YOU'RE PLUGGED IN, YOU'RE RUNNING A TASK, WHY DID YOU GO TO SLEEP?!?!?

<computer>sigh, I went to sleep because you closed my lid silly human. If you didn't want me to go to sleep, why did you close my lid? When the great bunny rabbit in the sky made me, they decided that when my lid was closed, it meant I was about to be moved, you know because I'm a portable computer and all.

<human> There are many reasons for closing the lid and considering I didn't unplug you it should be painfully obvious I wasn't going to move you. Don't go to sleep at every chance you get you lazy bum!

 

[Nothinman]

Just because you're being moved doesn't automatically mean you should go to sleep...