The real reason Japanese auto makers aren't as bad as the Big 3

[fleshconsumed]

Maybe cutting CEO's salary wouldn't put much of a dent in the bottom line, but I think making their salary contingent with the company performance would certainly make them work harder/better. If one receives millions of dollars regardless whether the company makes profit or is in the shitter, where's the motivation to work? Even if you get voted out by the board, you still make shitloads of money through the golden parachute. On the other hand if your pay is directly proportional to the company performance, now you have incentive to work.


Cut their salaries to 200K until the company makes profit. That would make them work. Or quit. Either way I'm sure it will be for the best.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Maybe cutting CEO's salary wouldn't put much of a dent in the bottom line, but I think making their salary contingent with the company performance would certainly make them work harder/better. If one receives millions of dollars regardless whether the company makes profit or is in the shitter, where's the motivation to work? Even if you get voted out by the board, you still make shitloads of money through the golden parachute. On the other hand if your pay is directly proportional to the company performance, now you have incentive to work.


Cut their salaries to 200K until the company makes profit. That would make them work. Or quit. Either way I'm sure it will be for the best.

Along the lines of what you said you can take the company that I work for as a perfect example. Our CEO came here just a few years ago. Since he's taken over our stock is now about 1/3 it's value of what it was. Obviously he is not 100% to blame as the market is being pretty hard on anyone, but his choices have not helped at all. About a year or so ago it was announced that the campus I work at will be sold, the vast majority of the 2000+ jobs at that campus will be elminiated, or if the position is kept the employee will have the option to relocate to another part of the country where the job is going or don't let the door hit you on the way out. After losing around 75% of those effected positions they cancel the sale. Now our company may split. They are talking about selling campuses in different parts of the country. We really don't seem to have any direction from our 'leadership'. It really feels to all of use peons that they're kind of just winging it from day to day. Well, now our CEO has retirement lined up next year. He'll have been with the company about 3-3.5 years, killed our stock value, lost thousands of talented employees, and overall leave us in much worse shape then when he came to the company. I'm sure his golden parachute will be worth more money then I'll see in my life, quite possibly more money then me and my extended family will make combined. If I performed my job duty like he did I'd probably be fired. <sigh>

 

[trenchfoot]

Simply put, the Japanese auto makers are beating their American counterparts at their own game.

It's a huge advantage to be leading the industry whereby you force the competition to play a defensive/catch-up game, which is a very hard thing to do simultaneously. The Japanese knew this and have capitalized on it. The Japanese also understand that they must not give up this lead or they will suffer the same fate the Big Threee are now experiencing. They will do everything they can to keep this lead, as having the lead builds on itself. A perfect example is those powerhouse major college and pro sports franchises.

The leaders get to innovate to their strengths and manipulate their industries to their advantage, all on a playing field they create for themselves. The trailers get to pick up the scraps in niche markets until such time the leaders take those over too.

 

[jackace]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Genx87
Eh this is one guy who decided to set a good example.
I say good for him. I am sure you can find a CEO or two in the US who does the same.

Would you feel confident in saying that it is not the norm in the US but an anomoly? I would certainly feel confident saying the opposite.

Looking that page 3 of this pdf document shows that in 2000, the average CEO pay in the US was 531x that of the average employee. On the same chart, you will see that in Japan it is only 10x the average and in Switzerland, S. Korea and Germany it is only 11x.

Which of those economies are suffering the least in these tough times?

so would you propose we cap how much CEOs can get paid? Like I said, Japan is working in a free market also, but they choose to pay their executives less. In a truly free market, if a company is not working becuase they pay management too much, the company goes down, not gets bailed out. That is where we are messing up.

You think CEO pay is set in "free market" ideology? Are you kidding me?

LOL exactly. CEO pay and Wall St. pay are completely out of control and the people in these areas are manipulating the market to keep compensations artificially high.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Maybe cutting CEO's salary wouldn't put much of a dent in the bottom line, but I think making their salary contingent with the company performance would certainly make them work harder/better. If one receives millions of dollars regardless whether the company makes profit or is in the shitter, where's the motivation to work? Even if you get voted out by the board, you still make shitloads of money through the golden parachute. On the other hand if your pay is directly proportional to the company performance, now you have incentive to work.


Cut their salaries to 200K until the company makes profit. That would make them work. Or quit. Either way I'm sure it will be for the best.

What do you think those millions in stock options that they only get if the stock reaches a certain point are? A ton of GM's CEO's "compensation" for 07 are stock options he can only cash in if he gets the stock above $40. Have you seen GM stock lately? If he can pull that out of his ass, he deserves every damn penny in my book.

Granted, I think they should have cut their own salaries first in this fubar'd situation but GM's CEO didn't really make anywhere close to $20M last year.

 

[fleshconsumed]

...

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: esse
A Brit CEO once said that his American counterparts have no shame.

Average American productivity has increased 30% in the last 2-3 decades but average wage for American workers has not increased (after factoring in money depreciation). Guess where the majority of that increased productivity gone to?

The government's wealth redistribution?

 

[Jhhnn]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: esse
A Brit CEO once said that his American counterparts have no shame.

Average American productivity has increased 30% in the last 2-3 decades but average wage for American workers has not increased (after factoring in money depreciation). Guess where the majority of that increased productivity gone to?

The government's wealth redistribution?

You must mean the principle of redistributing wealth to the top .01% of the population, if you're making any reference to reality at all.

Probably not. The ideology of the Rightwing renders them blind and deaf- too bad they're not mute, too...

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
steve jobs paid himself $1 for several years, iirc.


anyone else hate that CNN posts videos to the exclusion of articles?

Stop using that stupid quote! He gets millions in stock options every year:
Text

What's the difference between 100K salary and 0 stock option grants or $1 salary and $100K worth of stock option grants? I don't pay capital gains on the latter....

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Genx87
Eh this is one guy who decided to set a good example.
I say good for him. I am sure you can find a CEO or two in the US who does the same.

Would you feel confident in saying that it is not the norm in the US but an anomoly? I would certainly feel confident saying the opposite.

Looking that page 3 of this pdf document shows that in 2000, the average CEO pay in the US was 531x that of the average employee. On the same chart, you will see that in Japan it is only 10x the average and in Switzerland, S. Korea and Germany it is only 11x.

Which of those economies are suffering the least in these tough times?

Judging by the recent strength of our currency, the US is suffering the least...
Also that stat is misleading, if U.S. companies on average return more than Japan/Swiss/Korean/German companies, then that multiplier can be justified.

 

[ICRS]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I keep hearing the CEO-divas talking about how bad things are and how much it is going to take from all of us (except themselves and their executive committees) to right this ship. And then you hear about the way business is conducted in Japan and you don't have to wonder very much more about one of the primary reasons for the troubles across the Big 3 and many other businesses in the U.S.

Spoiler alert!!!

Don't watch if you are a free market capitalist to the end and it is the evil unions that are the real problem. You will be very sorry that you did.

The Japanese pay their American workers slave wages. They have factories outside of japan where they treat the workers like slaves. With these slave wages they are able to make $$$.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Genx87
Eh this is one guy who decided to set a good example.
I say good for him. I am sure you can find a CEO or two in the US who does the same.

Would you feel confident in saying that it is not the norm in the US but an anomoly? I would certainly feel confident saying the opposite.

Looking that page 3 of this pdf document shows that in 2000, the average CEO pay in the US was 531x that of the average employee. On the same chart, you will see that in Japan it is only 10x the average and in Switzerland, S. Korea and Germany it is only 11x.

Which of those economies are suffering the least in these tough times?

Judging by the recent strength of our currency, the US is suffering the least...
Also that stat is misleading, if U.S. companies on average return more than Japan/Swiss/Korean/German companies, then that multiplier can be justified.

you should look at the Fortunes 500 most profitable companies of 2007. Of the top 20 companies, probably 10 are American companies that are more or less bankrupt now

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I keep hearing the CEO-divas talking about how bad things are and how much it is going to take from all of us (except themselves and their executive committees) to right this ship. And then you hear about the way business is conducted in Japan and you don't have to wonder very much more about one of the primary reasons for the troubles across the Big 3 and many other businesses in the U.S.

Spoiler alert!!!

Don't watch if you are a free market capitalist to the end and it is the evil unions that are the real problem. You will be very sorry that you did.

The Japanese pay their American workers slave wages. They have factories outside of japan where they treat the workers like slaves. With these slave wages they are able to make $$$.

just like Nike?

 

[ICRS]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I keep hearing the CEO-divas talking about how bad things are and how much it is going to take from all of us (except themselves and their executive committees) to right this ship. And then you hear about the way business is conducted in Japan and you don't have to wonder very much more about one of the primary reasons for the troubles across the Big 3 and many other businesses in the U.S.

Spoiler alert!!!

Don't watch if you are a free market capitalist to the end and it is the evil unions that are the real problem. You will be very sorry that you did.

The Japanese pay their American workers slave wages. They have factories outside of japan where they treat the workers like slaves. With these slave wages they are able to make $$$.

just like Nike?

NOO, Nike atleast pays the average wage in those country. The Japanese pay poverty wages, well bellow the national average way.

Also the Japanese also engage in Union Busting in America. Which is why you shouldn't buy Toyota, Honda, or a Nissan.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I keep hearing the CEO-divas talking about how bad things are and how much it is going to take from all of us (except themselves and their executive committees) to right this ship. And then you hear about the way business is conducted in Japan and you don't have to wonder very much more about one of the primary reasons for the troubles across the Big 3 and many other businesses in the U.S.

Spoiler alert!!!

Don't watch if you are a free market capitalist to the end and it is the evil unions that are the real problem. You will be very sorry that you did.

The Japanese pay their American workers slave wages. They have factories outside of japan where they treat the workers like slaves. With these slave wages they are able to make $$$.

just like Nike?

NOO, Nike atleast pays the average wage in those country. The Japanese pay poverty wages, well bellow the national average way.

Also the Japanese also engage in Union Busting in America. Which is why you shouldn't buy Toyota, Honda, or a Nissan.

Nike admits child labor

 

[ICRS]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I keep hearing the CEO-divas talking about how bad things are and how much it is going to take from all of us (except themselves and their executive committees) to right this ship. And then you hear about the way business is conducted in Japan and you don't have to wonder very much more about one of the primary reasons for the troubles across the Big 3 and many other businesses in the U.S.

Spoiler alert!!!

Don't watch if you are a free market capitalist to the end and it is the evil unions that are the real problem. You will be very sorry that you did.

The Japanese pay their American workers slave wages. They have factories outside of japan where they treat the workers like slaves. With these slave wages they are able to make $$$.

just like Nike?

NOO, Nike atleast pays the average wage in those country. The Japanese pay poverty wages, well bellow the national average way.

Also the Japanese also engage in Union Busting in America. Which is why you shouldn't buy Toyota, Honda, or a Nissan.

Nike admits child labor

Then it is good that I boycot Nike as well as the Japanese Automakers.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I keep hearing the CEO-divas talking about how bad things are and how much it is going to take from all of us (except themselves and their executive committees) to right this ship. And then you hear about the way business is conducted in Japan and you don't have to wonder very much more about one of the primary reasons for the troubles across the Big 3 and many other businesses in the U.S.

Spoiler alert!!!

Don't watch if you are a free market capitalist to the end and it is the evil unions that are the real problem. You will be very sorry that you did.

The Japanese pay their American workers slave wages. They have factories outside of japan where they treat the workers like slaves. With these slave wages they are able to make $$$.

just like Nike?

NOO, Nike atleast pays the average wage in those country. The Japanese pay poverty wages, well bellow the national average way.

Also the Japanese also engage in Union Busting in America. Which is why you shouldn't buy Toyota, Honda, or a Nissan.

I'm not convinced that unions are the 'good guys' anymore. At least no more so then execs. Seems like greed rules both groups.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: ICRS
The Japanese pay their American workers slave wages. They have factories outside of japan where they treat the workers like slaves. With these slave wages they are able to make $$$.

These statements beg for a few questions.

Are you stating that ALL Japanese companies pay their American workers "slave wages" or do you have some specific Japanese companies you are referring to?

How do you define "slave wages"? Would that be below the minimum wage, below the average regional wage, or below the average national wage?

Could you elaborate on the statement "where they treat the workers like slaves".


Lately, the focus regarding Japanese companies has been on the automotive industry. In the Japanese automotive companies I don't see anything close to "slave wages".

Acouple of recent, supporting stories:

from an Aug 4, 2008 article

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008/aug/04/chattanooga-vw-plant-could-push-local-wages/

* $13.53: Median hourly wage for production workers in the United States in May 2007, or a yearly pay of $31,310

* $14: Starting hourly wage for many new GM, Ford and Chrysler workers hired under 2007 UAW contract agreement

* $17: Starting hourly wage by Honda in Indiana

* $24.92: Top hourly wage for production workers at the Nissan plants in Smyrna and Decherd, Tenn.

* $26: Top hourly wage for UAW workers

Sources: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Wall Street Journal
---------------

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/20...ilout-story-honda.html

Wednesday, November 19, 2008
On Monday, Honda celebrated the opening of its $550-million, nonunion plant in Greensburg, Indiana, capable of producing 200,000 vehicles annually, highlighting the contrast between the healthy Asian automaker and its ailing domestic rivals.

And even though the starting hourly wage at the plant is $18.41, or roughly $10 less than an average Detroit Three worker, demand for these jobs was off the charts. When Honda announced it was hiring 900 employees, 33,000 people applied. Honda eventually plans to employ about 2,000 at the plant, which started production in October.

Honda's Greensburg plant will give the company a competitive advantage compared with many of the Detroit Three's aging plants and higher labor rates, said Gary Chaison, a professor of industrial relations at Clark University in Massachusetts.

"The Honda plant is the other side of the bailout story," Chaison said. "These are companies which are still expanding and which have lower cost structures. They are also facing the world financial crisis, but they are in much better shape."

"Slave wages"??

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I keep hearing the CEO-divas talking about how bad things are and how much it is going to take from all of us (except themselves and their executive committees) to right this ship. And then you hear about the way business is conducted in Japan and you don't have to wonder very much more about one of the primary reasons for the troubles across the Big 3 and many other businesses in the U.S.

Spoiler alert!!!

Don't watch if you are a free market capitalist to the end and it is the evil unions that are the real problem. You will be very sorry that you did.

The Japanese pay their American workers slave wages. They have factories outside of japan where they treat the workers like slaves. With these slave wages they are able to make $$$.

just like Nike?

NOO, Nike atleast pays the average wage in those country. The Japanese pay poverty wages, well bellow the national average way.

Also the Japanese also engage in Union Busting in America. Which is why you shouldn't buy Toyota, Honda, or a Nissan.

I'm not convinced that unions are the 'good guys' anymore. At least no more so then execs. Seems like greed rules both groups.

So let's bind them together by having all management and rank and file wage/salary/benefits package increases solely dependent on how much the average line worker ends up with in contract negotiations.

And while we're at it, let's have the board of director's pay and benefits packages tied into them too.

 

[ICRS]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: ICRS
The Japanese pay their American workers slave wages. They have factories outside of japan where they treat the workers like slaves. With these slave wages they are able to make $$$.

These statements beg for a few questions.

Are you stating that ALL Japanese companies pay their American workers "slave wages" or do you have some specific Japanese companies you are referring to?

How do you define "slave wages"? Would that be below the minimum wage, below the average regional wage, or below the average national wage?

Could you elaborate on the statement "where they treat the workers like slaves".


Lately, the focus regarding Japanese companies has been on the automotive industry. In the Japanese automotive companies I don't see anything close to "slave wages".

Acouple of recent, supporting stories:

from an Aug 4, 2008 article

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008/aug/04/chattanooga-vw-plant-could-push-local-wages/

* $13.53: Median hourly wage for production workers in the United States in May 2007, or a yearly pay of $31,310

* $14: Starting hourly wage for many new GM, Ford and Chrysler workers hired under 2007 UAW contract agreement

* $17: Starting hourly wage by Honda in Indiana

* $24.92: Top hourly wage for production workers at the Nissan plants in Smyrna and Decherd, Tenn.

* $26: Top hourly wage for UAW workers

Sources: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Wall Street Journal
---------------

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/20...ilout-story-honda.html

Wednesday, November 19, 2008
On Monday, Honda celebrated the opening of its $550-million, nonunion plant in Greensburg, Indiana, capable of producing 200,000 vehicles annually, highlighting the contrast between the healthy Asian automaker and its ailing domestic rivals.

And even though the starting hourly wage at the plant is $18.41, or roughly $10 less than an average Detroit Three worker, demand for these jobs was off the charts. When Honda announced it was hiring 900 employees, 33,000 people applied. Honda eventually plans to employ about 2,000 at the plant, which started production in October.

Honda's Greensburg plant will give the company a competitive advantage compared with many of the Detroit Three's aging plants and higher labor rates, said Gary Chaison, a professor of industrial relations at Clark University in Massachusetts.

"The Honda plant is the other side of the bailout story," Chaison said. "These are companies which are still expanding and which have lower cost structures. They are also facing the world financial crisis, but they are in much better shape."

"Slave wages"??

They don't get life time pension that UAW workers get. With out that even UAW workers would be making slave wages.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: ICRS
The Japanese pay their American workers slave wages. They have factories outside of japan where they treat the workers like slaves. With these slave wages they are able to make $$$.

These statements beg for a few questions.

Are you stating that ALL Japanese companies pay their American workers "slave wages" or do you have some specific Japanese companies you are referring to?

How do you define "slave wages"? Would that be below the minimum wage, below the average regional wage, or below the average national wage?

Could you elaborate on the statement "where they treat the workers like slaves".


Lately, the focus regarding Japanese companies has been on the automotive industry. In the Japanese automotive companies I don't see anything close to "slave wages".

Acouple of recent, supporting stories:

from an Aug 4, 2008 article

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008/aug/04/chattanooga-vw-plant-could-push-local-wages/

* $13.53: Median hourly wage for production workers in the United States in May 2007, or a yearly pay of $31,310

* $14: Starting hourly wage for many new GM, Ford and Chrysler workers hired under 2007 UAW contract agreement

* $17: Starting hourly wage by Honda in Indiana

* $24.92: Top hourly wage for production workers at the Nissan plants in Smyrna and Decherd, Tenn.

* $26: Top hourly wage for UAW workers

Sources: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Wall Street Journal
---------------

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/20...ilout-story-honda.html

Wednesday, November 19, 2008
On Monday, Honda celebrated the opening of its $550-million, nonunion plant in Greensburg, Indiana, capable of producing 200,000 vehicles annually, highlighting the contrast between the healthy Asian automaker and its ailing domestic rivals.

And even though the starting hourly wage at the plant is $18.41, or roughly $10 less than an average Detroit Three worker, demand for these jobs was off the charts. When Honda announced it was hiring 900 employees, 33,000 people applied. Honda eventually plans to employ about 2,000 at the plant, which started production in October.

Honda's Greensburg plant will give the company a competitive advantage compared with many of the Detroit Three's aging plants and higher labor rates, said Gary Chaison, a professor of industrial relations at Clark University in Massachusetts.

"The Honda plant is the other side of the bailout story," Chaison said. "These are companies which are still expanding and which have lower cost structures. They are also facing the world financial crisis, but they are in much better shape."

"Slave wages"??

They don't get life time pension that UAW workers get. With out that even UAW workers would be making slave wages.

Lack of lifetime pension = slave wages? WTF?

You can add to your earlier statement taht the majority of American companies pay their workers "slave wages".

 

[OokiiNeko]

You guys should look up Lincoln Electric.

Years ago the CEO refused to have any perks (private jet, company paid country club memberships, etc) and passed on that money to the workers in the form of higher wages and productivity bonuses.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: ICRS
The Japanese pay their American workers slave wages. They have factories outside of japan where they treat the workers like slaves. With these slave wages they are able to make $$$.

These statements beg for a few questions.

Are you stating that ALL Japanese companies pay their American workers "slave wages" or do you have some specific Japanese companies you are referring to?

How do you define "slave wages"? Would that be below the minimum wage, below the average regional wage, or below the average national wage?

Could you elaborate on the statement "where they treat the workers like slaves".


Lately, the focus regarding Japanese companies has been on the automotive industry. In the Japanese automotive companies I don't see anything close to "slave wages".

Acouple of recent, supporting stories:

from an Aug 4, 2008 article

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008/aug/04/chattanooga-vw-plant-could-push-local-wages/

* $13.53: Median hourly wage for production workers in the United States in May 2007, or a yearly pay of $31,310

* $14: Starting hourly wage for many new GM, Ford and Chrysler workers hired under 2007 UAW contract agreement

* $17: Starting hourly wage by Honda in Indiana

* $24.92: Top hourly wage for production workers at the Nissan plants in Smyrna and Decherd, Tenn.

* $26: Top hourly wage for UAW workers

Sources: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Wall Street Journal
---------------

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/20...ilout-story-honda.html

Wednesday, November 19, 2008
On Monday, Honda celebrated the opening of its $550-million, nonunion plant in Greensburg, Indiana, capable of producing 200,000 vehicles annually, highlighting the contrast between the healthy Asian automaker and its ailing domestic rivals.

And even though the starting hourly wage at the plant is $18.41, or roughly $10 less than an average Detroit Three worker, demand for these jobs was off the charts. When Honda announced it was hiring 900 employees, 33,000 people applied. Honda eventually plans to employ about 2,000 at the plant, which started production in October.

Honda's Greensburg plant will give the company a competitive advantage compared with many of the Detroit Three's aging plants and higher labor rates, said Gary Chaison, a professor of industrial relations at Clark University in Massachusetts.

"The Honda plant is the other side of the bailout story," Chaison said. "These are companies which are still expanding and which have lower cost structures. They are also facing the world financial crisis, but they are in much better shape."

"Slave wages"??

They don't get life time pension that UAW workers get. With out that even UAW workers would be making slave wages.

You gotta to be nuts to think starting out at 38k + benefits/insurance in places like Indiana is slave wages. That's 3k a month with minimal tax and minimal housing expenses. You won't get rich on that but you will definitely not starve and that's definitely not slave wages.

 

[child of wonder]

This is the fundamental problem:

When a company is suffering but those at the top are still making six or seven figure salaries plus bonuses and perks, how motivated are those executives going to be to fix it?

 

[ICRS]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: ICRS
The Japanese pay their American workers slave wages. They have factories outside of japan where they treat the workers like slaves. With these slave wages they are able to make $$$.

These statements beg for a few questions.

Are you stating that ALL Japanese companies pay their American workers "slave wages" or do you have some specific Japanese companies you are referring to?

How do you define "slave wages"? Would that be below the minimum wage, below the average regional wage, or below the average national wage?

Could you elaborate on the statement "where they treat the workers like slaves".


Lately, the focus regarding Japanese companies has been on the automotive industry. In the Japanese automotive companies I don't see anything close to "slave wages".

Acouple of recent, supporting stories:

from an Aug 4, 2008 article

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008/aug/04/chattanooga-vw-plant-could-push-local-wages/

* $13.53: Median hourly wage for production workers in the United States in May 2007, or a yearly pay of $31,310

* $14: Starting hourly wage for many new GM, Ford and Chrysler workers hired under 2007 UAW contract agreement

* $17: Starting hourly wage by Honda in Indiana

* $24.92: Top hourly wage for production workers at the Nissan plants in Smyrna and Decherd, Tenn.

* $26: Top hourly wage for UAW workers

Sources: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Wall Street Journal
---------------

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/20...ilout-story-honda.html

Wednesday, November 19, 2008
On Monday, Honda celebrated the opening of its $550-million, nonunion plant in Greensburg, Indiana, capable of producing 200,000 vehicles annually, highlighting the contrast between the healthy Asian automaker and its ailing domestic rivals.

And even though the starting hourly wage at the plant is $18.41, or roughly $10 less than an average Detroit Three worker, demand for these jobs was off the charts. When Honda announced it was hiring 900 employees, 33,000 people applied. Honda eventually plans to employ about 2,000 at the plant, which started production in October.

Honda's Greensburg plant will give the company a competitive advantage compared with many of the Detroit Three's aging plants and higher labor rates, said Gary Chaison, a professor of industrial relations at Clark University in Massachusetts.

"The Honda plant is the other side of the bailout story," Chaison said. "These are companies which are still expanding and which have lower cost structures. They are also facing the world financial crisis, but they are in much better shape."

"Slave wages"??

They don't get life time pension that UAW workers get. With out that even UAW workers would be making slave wages.

You gotta to be nuts to think starting out at 38k + benefits/insurance in places like Indiana is slave wages. That's 3k a month with minimal tax and minimal housing expenses. You won't get rich on that but you will definitely not starve and that's definitely not slave wages.

Without a life time pension and life them health benifits it is. They get hardly any benifits. Total compensation for these places is on average half that of UAW who are barely getting by.