The purpose of scene members

ultron

Member
Jan 9, 2016
49
0
6
Why the warez groups crack the games and other software. What's their benefit? Most of the people think that "They do their job just for fun" or "They crack games for ego satisfaction" etc. But this arguments seems to me very very unrealistic. I never buy "talented people risking themselves for childish reasons" idea. What's their real purpose? My assumptions:

1/They create a threat and software developers need more developed protection. Like Denuvo. Bird Sister praises this technology. And we don't know who is she(We don't know he's male or female actually) and no one can prove she has no connection with Denuvo.

2/They want money from developers to stop doing their job. For example wait to crack for quite a while to pirate it for the game company sell enough copies(We know that 1st couple months is the source of the most revenue)

3/They belittle torrent users but we don't have any idea about their relationship with torrent sites.

Any ideas about why they crack?
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,490
157
106
Why the warez groups crack the games and other software. What's their benefit? Most of the people think that "They do their job just for fun" or "They crack games for ego satisfaction" etc. But this arguments seems to me very very unrealistic. I never buy "talented people risking themselves for childish reasons" idea. What's their real purpose? My assumptions:

1/They create a threat and software developers need more developed protection. Like Denuvo. Bird Sister praises this technology. And we don't know who is she(We don't know he's male or female actually) and no one can prove she has no connection with Denuvo.

2/They want money from developers to stop doing their job. For example wait to crack for quite a while to pirate it for the game company sell enough copies(We know that 1st couple months is the source of the most revenue)

3/They belittle torrent users but we don't have any idea about their relationship with torrent sites.

Any ideas about why they crack?

The simplest reason to me is that they do it for personal gain. They could easily put malware into the software, and use it to steal usernames and passwords and then sell these things for profit.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
For the sport of it. Simple as that.

This is half of it, the other half is that they are true believers in the free information movement.

You seem to think that cracking software is hard. It is not. Almost all DRM is defeated within hours of being released. It is often done out of simple curiosity.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,350
1,860
126
Different people have different motivations.
For some it is political
For others its personal gain
for others competetion/sport
 

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,300
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
Motives do differ but most people in the scene have largely been about the reputation it gets you for being first to release, that's why releases are so fast because there's competition to be first.

The simplest reason to me is that they do it for personal gain. They could easily put malware into the software, and use it to steal usernames and passwords and then sell these things for profit.

This is completely false. Malware is absolutely not accepted in the scene, there's rules that are put together by prominent members and they all concern quality and speed, none of the respected scene groups ever include malware. Malware can be found in cracked software but that's always from the inevitable churn that happens after release where P2P groups get a hold of release and infect them, none of that has anything to do with the scene.

Remember that these scene groups follow rules established way back as far as internet that predates bittorrent, back when releases were done over hacked FTPs and newsboards, we're talking serious old school here, there's a lot of history and respect there which these people take very seriously.
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,786
789
136
Sometimes it's the only way to bring an older game back to life long after the developer or publisher has stopped supporting it. Sometimes it's the only safe way to play a game rather than infest your PC with DRM that can wreak havoc.
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,490
157
106
Motives do differ but most people in the scene have largely been about the reputation it gets you for being first to release, that's why releases are so fast because there's competition to be first.



This is completely false. Malware is absolutely not accepted in the scene, there's rules that are put together by prominent members and they all concern quality and speed, none of the respected scene groups ever include malware. Malware can be found in cracked software but that's always from the inevitable churn that happens after release where P2P groups get a hold of release and infect them, none of that has anything to do with the scene.

Remember that these scene groups follow rules established way back as far as internet that predates bittorrent, back when releases were done over hacked FTPs and newsboards, we're talking serious old school here, there's a lot of history and respect there which these people take very seriously.

No offense, but I find the thought that unorganized random groups of people who crack games illegally using established rules, well, hilarious.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
No offense, but I find the thought that unorganized random groups of people who crack games illegally using established rules, well, hilarious.

while funny its true

there have been some good articles on some of these people after they have gotten caught and why they did it. I think Wired had a really good one about one of the guys who would put up 0-day music/movie rips.

for many its really just a race to see who can do it first so they get more internet points
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
No offense, but I find the thought that unorganized random groups of people who crack games illegally using established rules, well, hilarious.

he is right though. It is. I used to be really into it. I never got any malware from a established group.

Anytime i heard of someone getting it was from someone getting a "repackaged" one.

sadly i have gotten more malware and bad installers from legit games.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
he is right though. It is. I used to be really into it. I never got any malware from a established group.

Anytime i heard of someone getting it was from someone getting a "repackaged" one.

sadly i have gotten more malware and bad installers from legit games.

Considering I've been gaming for over 30 years, and have never had viruses from legit games, I find this hard to believe. Especially considering those who torrent games are constantly dealing with viruses.

I'm not sure about the hackers profits, but the torrent sites make big bank while pretending to be all about free rights to data.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,890
5,001
126
Motives do differ but most people in the scene have largely been about the reputation it gets you for being first to release, that's why releases are so fast because there's competition to be first.



This is completely false. Malware is absolutely not accepted in the scene, there's rules that are put together by prominent members and they all concern quality and speed, none of the respected scene groups ever include malware. Malware can be found in cracked software but that's always from the inevitable churn that happens after release where P2P groups get a hold of release and infect them, none of that has anything to do with the scene.

Remember that these scene groups follow rules established way back as far as internet that predates bittorrent, back when releases were done over hacked FTPs and newsboards, we're talking serious old school here, there's a lot of history and respect there which these people take very seriously.

All of this is 100% true. And it goes back even further to BBS
"bittorrent" is not how a "scene release" is really released. on BT is where you will find all the repackaged crap with malware added into the mix.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,588
2,980
136
in the 90s there was an intellectual movement which wanted free software. or rather, which wanted "a sale to be a transferral of ownership", and not a license to use.
20 years later, the political motivations have gotten lost, people don't understand how badly they are being screwed, but the pirates keep doing it for fun - and maybe for ethics, those few that remember.

the story of warez having viruses belongs in the last decade, it's not like that anymore (and never really was anyway, maybe a few isolated cases).
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
It's still very much like that. Cousin wanted to pirate FL Studio, got to re-format instead.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Considering I've been gaming for over 30 years, and have never had viruses from legit games, I find this hard to believe. Especially considering those who torrent games are constantly dealing with viruses.

I'm not sure about the hackers profits, but the torrent sites make big bank while pretending to be all about free rights to data.

hes talking about the BS DRM shit not uncommon today
was a joke but also serious
 

mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
14,539
428
136
All of this is 100% true. And it goes back even further to BBS
"bittorrent" is not how a "scene release" is really released. on BT is where you will find all the repackaged crap with malware added into the mix.

Scene releases are all done over private FTP servers or Usenet.

Then it disseminates to private torrent trackers and then to public torrent trackers.

The risk for most people comes from someone uploading a repack with malware onto a public tracker.

If you have access to the FTP/usenet/private trackers though you're more or less fine in regards to avoiding malware/viruses.
 

Vivendi

Senior member
Nov 21, 2013
697
37
91
Sometimes it's the only way to bring an older game back to life long after the developer or publisher has stopped supporting it. Sometimes it's the only safe way to play a game rather than infest your PC with DRM that can wreak havoc.

This reminded me of the Anno series. The fact that pirates could install and play Anno 2070 easier than legit buyers pissed me off (back in 2011 or 12) enough that I didn't buy anymore games with DRM. Fast forward to last year, I decide to reinstall the game because there was a post on these forums about the series, and I keep getting a "can't connect to server error". I was going to pirate the game but then figured I didn't really want to play the game that badly anyways and moved on to something else. I definitely didn't buy the new Anno game that was recently released.
 

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,300
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
No offense, but I find the thought that unorganized random groups of people who crack games illegally using established rules, well, hilarious.

They're not unorganized though, quite the opposite in fact. They have job roles, some members have to actually record and source the original material, be that record it from cable, put a cam in a cinema or even steal the screeners from the oscars, and in the case of games releases need to be leaked prior to public consumption. Then they have people who have access to extremely fast hardware farms who rip and downsample the source to a compressed format following various predefined scene rules or in the case of games, serious coders who can subvert DRM present in the games executables. Then they have uploaders with extremely fast internet connections who upload it to private networks of FTPs. Often the topsite FTPs need to have speeds which are outside of what groups can afford to buy and also cannot be tracked to physical locations of the members, so there's also teams of people who scan the internet to find unsecured private FTPs or other hosts, and they hack them and hide the content there. They also have people who do ascii art for the NFOs and all sorts of other jobs.

Think about it a second, the scene rules state that the first scene group to release new content wins, so speed is key, that's why something can air on cable and be ripped to a 1-4Gb file and uploaded in about 2-3 minutes of it airing. That kind of efficiency is only possible through competition which requires massive amounts of organization and skill.

The rules are in fact established among them across the most prominent groups on the scene and revised regularly through consensus, everything from the standards acceptable for encoding, the format file names should be in, rules for nuking a release (marking it as a failed release) and a huge number of other standards to do with compression, archiving etc.

All of this is 100% true. And it goes back even further to BBS
"bittorrent" is not how a "scene release" is really released. on BT is where you will find all the repackaged crap with malware added into the mix.

Yep. The entire P2P network that has built up around distributing scene releases is completely separate and dependent on the scene releases being released into the public domain (not all are, some internal rips remain private). Almost all of the reputable scene groups heavily frown upon the P2P networks sharing their content, you'll often see it in the nfo files that come with releases, that people shouldn't be using P2P and they should in fact buy the media they consume and like.

Scene releases are all done over private FTP servers or Usenet.

Then it disseminates to private torrent trackers and then to public torrent trackers.

The risk for most people comes from someone uploading a repack with malware onto a public tracker.

If you have access to the FTP/usenet/private trackers though you're more or less fine in regards to avoiding malware/viruses.

Exactly right. Private trackers (invite only) do have their own communities and often come with strict rules that to some degree extend the scene rules to the P2P community, often only verified scene releases are allowed, users are punished for leeching and torrents are distributed automatically using RSS feeds and auto downloading and various other things. Good private trackers enforce extremely tight rules so all members benefit, there's many layers of security to keep the tracker out of the public eye. They often have large infrastructures of seed boxes that the community maintain which give near unlimitless download speeds for members.

Above that is the surface web stuff like TPB and other public trackers, which anyone can post viruses too and that's where the vast majority of uninformed people get their media from and the quality is absolutely diabolical and there's no standards in sight, odds of viruses is high etc.
 
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PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,300
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
This reminded me of the Anno series. The fact that pirates could install and play Anno 2070 easier than legit buyers pissed me off (back in 2011 or 12) enough that I didn't buy anymore games with DRM. Fast forward to last year, I decide to reinstall the game because there was a post on these forums about the series, and I keep getting a "can't connect to server error". I was going to pirate the game but then figured I didn't really want to play the game that badly anyways and moved on to something else. I definitely didn't buy the new Anno game that was recently released.

Remember that a lot of the DRM used in modern games wants to connect to the internet and authenticate that copies are legitimate, this requires running an authentication server which costs resources. If the developers go bust, the DRM is depreciated (in the game of GFWL) or even if it's attacked via DDOS and disabled, the game becomes unplayable. Scene cracks then becomes ways that legitimate media owners can play games they paid for.

Some developers who had an issue with their DRM were actually caught releasing a scene crack to their customers as a recommeded fix when DRM went bad. Quite often scene members will edit the game exe file with a hex editor to disable DRM components but leave behind a signiture in empty space inside the exe, just to show who did it. And this sig was found inside official patches to solve DRM issues deployed by devs.

Funny ol' world, innit?
 

mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
14,539
428
136
there's many layers of security to keep the tracker out of the public eye

Yup, on private trackers, everyone has either been invited, gone through an interview, or application process and the site staff will immediately ban your account if people report you have uploaded something with a virus or malware, and since these private trackers are fairly small, the person uploading the malware will likely only infect a handful of computers, if that many. Private tracker users also tend to be far more computer literate and know how to avoid viruses and malware to begin with.

It's much easier for an attacker to use public trackers like TPB or Kickass which have hundreds of thousands of users that are usually not as technically savvy downloading whatever looks like it is what they are looking for. Even if the uploader is found out to have uploaded malware, there are no registered accounts to ban or anything like that, the attacker simply uploads something else anonymously with his malware and infects even more people.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,205
536
126
Considering I've been gaming for over 30 years, and have never had viruses from legit games, I find this hard to believe. Especially considering those who torrent games are constantly dealing with viruses.

I'm not sure about the hackers profits, but the torrent sites make big bank while pretending to be all about free rights to data.

You must have never used one of the Sony music CD's that had a rootkit on it which would install when read by a PC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal

Or a game protected by Safedisc which re-writes your CD/DVD drivers and left open security vulnerabilities that lead to elevation of privilages (i.e. admin access):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SafeDisc#SafeDisc_driver_vulnerabilities

I could keep going on...