The problem with blacks in america is...

[Arkitech]

The problem with blacks in america is basically that they have never been treated fairly.

I hear all manners of discussions that characterize black people as criminals, ignorant, unintelligent, racist, etc.. But really how would you expect a group of people to act when the moment that they arrived in america they were treated as subhumans or animals? Imagine how you would feel if you were labeled before you even had a chance to demonstrate who you really were.

Just 50 or 60 years ago it was ok in america to force black people to use separate water fountains, to sit in the back of the bus or public auditoriums, to use different entrances in public buildings. It was ok to lynch and hang black people over the slightest infractions. How would you feel if that was your legacy? How would you look at a society knowing that you were considered to be inferior no matter what you achieved in life?

I grew up with an immense love for reading. I love all forms of books whether it's fiction, history or math, I enjoy the pleasure of reading. During my grammar school years many of my test scores were on the level of college students. Yet despite the fact that I had an obvious aptitude for the written word, more often than not I was judged soley on the color of my skin. I remember at 11 years old being placed in a school for advanced students (which was predominately white) and had to be taken out because of the backlash from the students, teachers and parents (this was in the late 1980's). I can remember times walking home from the mall or school and being verbally and physically harassed for no other reason than being black. The reason I bring this up is simply to point out that this kind of treatment will naturally cause a reaction. Let me state for the record that I have never treated or spoke of any person of a different race or color in a derogatory manner. Nor do I condone any one doing so, although I can understand the frustration of people who may react in a less than civil manner.

When I read thoughts and comments such as the ones expressed here ( http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2331735 ), I can't help but to feel a little annoyed. I could argue the statements made in that thread for hours, but in the end it would achieve nothing in the larger scheme of things. I realize that this post itself will likely not change many opinions or feelings, but in the interest of present both sides of a coin I felt the need to put my thoughts online.

 

[Soundmanred]

LULZ, good one.
I enjoy good satire.

 

[Acanthus]

LULZ, good one.
I enjoy good satire.

Do you sincerely suggest that welfare, some civil rights laws and the EEOC make up for 300 years of oppression?

I mean we have come a long way from 60 years ago, but things are still pretty bad out there for (most of) the black community in America.

 

[Greenman]

Clueless, uninformed, and blind.

 

[werepossum]

The problem with blacks in america is basically that they have never been treated fairly.

I hear all manners of discussions that characterize black people as criminals, ignorant, unintelligent, racist, etc.. But really how would you expect a group of people to act when the moment that they arrived in america they were treated as subhumans or animals? Imagine how you would feel if you were labeled before you even had a chance to demonstrate who you really were.

Just 50 or 60 years ago it was ok in america to force black people to use separate water fountains, to sit in the back of the bus or public auditoriums, to use different entrances in public buildings. It was ok to lynch and hang black people over the slightest infractions. How would you feel if that was your legacy? How would you look at a society knowing that you were considered to be inferior no matter what you achieved in life?

I grew up with an immense love for reading. I love all forms of books whether it's fiction, history or math, I enjoy the pleasure of reading. During my grammar school years many of my test scores were on the level of college students. Yet despite the fact that I had an obvious aptitude for the written word, more often than not I was judged soley on the color of my skin. I remember at 11 years old being placed in a school for advanced students (which was predominately white) and had to be taken out because of the backlash from the students, teachers and parents (this was in the late 1980's). I can remember times walking home from the mall or school and being verbally and physically harassed for no other reason than being black. The reason I bring this up is simply to point out that this kind of treatment will naturally cause a reaction. Let me state for the record that I have never treated or spoke of any person of a different race or color in a derogatory manner. Nor do I condone any one doing so, although I can understand the frustration of people who may react in a less than civil manner.

When I read thoughts and comments such as the ones expressed here ( http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2331735 ), I can't help but to feel a little annoyed. I could argue the statements made in that thread for hours, but in the end it would achieve nothing in the larger scheme of things. I realize that this post itself will likely not change many opinions or feelings, but in the interest of present both sides of a coin I felt the need to put my thoughts online.

Well said, and congratulations for not living up to the bad expectations to which you were subjected. Perhaps one of the hardest things in life is NOT becoming what people expect you to become.

I think in general younger blacks don't recognize how far we've come and younger whites don't recognize how far we had to go. NPR had a story the other day about Mary Hamilton, a protester arrested in 1963 Gadsden Alabama. She was fined and sent to jail for contempt because she would not answer to her first name. The custom at that time was whites were addressed as "Miss" or Mister", but blacks were addressed only by their first names. This went all the way to SCOTUS - in 1963. Mary Hamilton was very pretty, a light skinned teacher who could have easily passed for white - but because she did not choose to identify as white (and in many states was legally defined as black), by force of law she was not accorded the same simple respect that other people were afforded. A respect that costs no one anything, afforded no one any special privileges, had no possible benefit to anyone, yet it remained until struck down by SCOTUS in 1963. I was alive (though a child) at that time.

America had literally put a man into space before it decided that blacks deserved the same basic respect in legal address as did whites, a respect that quite literally did not cost one person one red cent to provide and yet one that had to go all the way up to the Supreme Court to be gained. I'm old and mostly conservative, but if that doesn't make you think "Holy shit!" you are either old enough to remember it, or a little dead inside.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Do you sincerely suggest that welfare, some civil rights laws and the EEOC make up for 300 years of oppression?

I mean we have come a long way from 60 years ago, but things are still pretty bad out there for (most of) the black community in America.

Yes they are bad and no I don't owe them anything but opportunity.

 

[homebrew2ny]

Just curious, but what population of people has ever been treated 'fairly' by the powers that be in America? Ever? Anywhere?

 

[RampantAndroid]

Yes they are bad and no I don't owe them anything but opportunity.

Agreed so much on this. If opportunity means scholarships for the kids achieving, let's do it. If it means welfare...well, no.

 

[Attic]

That was absolute shit how you were treated when you were younger, hope it did not destroy any of your ambitions.

It wasn't color of skin that caused teachers and students to treat you that way, it was their behavior that likely had been tolerated, accepted, and possibly apologized for. The behavior has been admonished more and more over the years. I doubt you'd have the same experience in 2013.

What are your thoughts on Obamas approach to frame the racial tension we currently see more clearly after the GZ case?

 

[werepossum]

Yes they are bad and no I don't owe them anything but opportunity.

I think we need to do a bit more than that. If I offer you $100 to help me push my car out of the ditch, that's opportunity. If however my great grandfather just ran you over, you may need a spot of help to take advantage of that opportunity. A lot of what we've done with good intentions has had severe side effects and in the end blacks must pull themselves up like everyone else, but opportunity does not immediately equal the ability to take advantage of that opportunity.

Just curious, but what population of people has ever been treated 'fairly' by the powers that be in America? Ever? Anywhere?

That's a valid point to a degree, but while power is generally not very accommodating to those not in power, the black heritage is a bit unique. Like most Americans I'm a bit of an ethnic mongrel, but roughly half Irish. But to say that indentured servitude equates to slavery, or that "no dogs or Irish" signs equate to government Jim Crow-era segregation, is obviously disingenuous. Every ethnic group has its historic problems, but only the Native Americans, who had it even worse, have anything comparable to blacks.

Man, when I'm the voice of reason and liberal compassion we're living in BizarroWorld!

 

[glenn1]

The problem with blacks in america is basically that they have never been treated fairly.

Of course, that's what all rationalizing losers say. "My lack of success wasn't my fault." And 50% dropout rates from high school among urban blacks is completely understandable and a reasonable response in light of separate water fountains 60 years ago. Meanwhile immigrants from shithole Muslim countries who were enslaved within their lifetimes (instead of ancestors 300 years ago) come here and succeeed.

 

[homebrew2ny]

That's a valid point to a degree, but while power is generally not very accommodating to those not in power, the black heritage is a bit unique. Like most Americans I'm a bit of an ethnic mongrel, but roughly half Irish. But to say that indentured servitude equates to slavery, or that "no dogs or Irish" signs equate to government Jim Crow-era segregation, is obviously disingenuous. Every ethnic group has its historic problems, but only the Native Americans, who had it even worse, have anything comparable to blacks.

Man, when I'm the voice of reason and liberal compassion we're living in BizarroWorld!

Having native American heritage, I can unequivocally say that although what happened to my ancestors was atrocious, it has very little impact on me or even my recent past lineage. I was born, like most, in a lower middle class family and had just as much opportunity to go after my dreams and desires as anyone.

People of less than wealth in this country need to begin to take responsibility even with inherent limitations because of lack of wealth or 'fairness'. Nothing was ever given to me, I had to dream, work, and struggle for everything, but I never blamed anyone because opportunity was there albeit perhaps harder than others.

Bottom line, every race in America, of every color or background, is given the availability to go to school, to learn. Given the availability to chose a life path, and to varying degrees, given the availability to go after their dreams. Making poor choices because you want to take the easy path and blame others for your 'oppression' helps no one.

Make no mistake, I know the past and keep it alive in honoring the memory of those who were really done wrong (original native Americans, slaves, ect..) but I do not pretend to know their pain, their struggles and to that end I honor them by living a life they never could, a life free of extermination. A life where I have opportunity and family free of fear.

Will I ever become president? No. Will I ever have the same opportunities as the wealthy of the land? No. But I am not going to cry about it and ruin my life over it either. I am still going to try and become a decent man, father, and husband. Hopefully to give my children more opportunity and a better life then I could have.

This is the true American way.

 

[sportage]

LULZ, good one.
I enjoy good satire.

The hope for society is with the younger generation.
For the most part, they have moved pasted narrowminded thinking.
Growing up with gay friends, Hispanic friends, black friends, the kids of today will have and do have a refreshing outlook, moving past the narrowminded brain set of their own parents.

Obama's speech of today placed those narrowminded into a place of self embarrassment and shame.
Obama spoke directly to this new upcoming younger generation.
He too realizes there lies our hope.
As the old is replaced by the new, life for everyone will change for the better.
Make us a stronger nation.
People, some people, will attack the words spoken by this president.
All while exposing their own failures with doing so.
There lies the beauty of maturing as a nation and as a people.
Fools are too foolish to realize their foolishness.
Pure beauty of change.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The hope for society is with the younger generation.
For the most part, they have moved pasted narrowminded thinking.
Growing up with gay friends, Hispanic friends, black friends, the kids of today will have and do have a refreshing outlook, moving past the narrowminded brain set of their own parents.

Obama's speech of today placed those narrowminded into a place of self embarrassment and shame.
Obama spoke directly to this new upcoming younger generation.
He too realizes there lies our hope.
As the old is replaced by the new, life for everyone will change for the better.
Make us a stronger nation.
People, some people, will attack the words spoken by this president.
All while exposing their own failures with doing so.
There lies the beauty of maturing as a nation and as a people.
Fools are too foolish to realize their foolishness.
Pure beauty of change.

The younger generations themselves are split into two classes.

• Those that do not want to take advantage of opportunities because it takes work
• And those that will climb a greased pole to get to the pot of gold at the top.

The former is affected heavily by the Jacksons/Sharptons that feel that the pot of gold pole should be climbed by whitey and handed over. Climbing the pole is to difficult.

 

[werepossum]

Having native American heritage, I can unequivocally say that although what happened to my ancestors was atrocious, it has very little impact on me or even my recent past lineage. I was born, like most, in a lower middle class family and had just as much opportunity to go after my dreams and desires as anyone.

People of less than wealth in this country need to begin to take responsibility even with inherent limitations because of lack of wealth or 'fairness'. Nothing was ever given to me, I had to dream, work, and struggle for everything, but I never blamed anyone because opportunity was there albeit perhaps harder than others.

Bottom line, every race in America, of every color or background, is given the availability to go to school, to learn. Given the availability to chose a life path, and to varying degrees, given the availability to go after their dreams. Making poor choices because you want to take the easy path and blame others for your 'oppression' helps no one.

Make no mistake, I know the past and keep it alive in honoring the memory of those who were really done wrong (original native Americans, slaves, ect..) but I do not pretend to know their pain, their struggles and to that end I honor them by living a life they never could, a life free of extermination. A life where I have opportunity and family free of fear.

Will I ever become president? No. Will I ever have the same opportunities as the wealthy of the land? No. But I am not going to cry about it and ruin my life over it either. I am still going to try and become a decent man, father, and husband. Hopefully to give my children more opportunity and a better life then I could have.

This is the true American way.

Good for you; that is a very positive attitude and as you say, the true American way. (And I do believe this is the greatest country on G-d's green Earth.) Race or ethnicity should not define one's life. All I'm saying is that for some people, that climb up is more difficult because of things that happened before they were even born. If one is born on the rez and every native American one knows is dirt poor or working for the government, then likely one will not even recognize opportunity. Sometimes these people (like their counterparts in the ghetto) need special help to even recognize that opportunity, much less that it can work for them. This isn't giving someone a piece of pie because we know they will fail to earn it on their own, it's just recognizing that with a bit of help they CAN earn it on their own, and then they help make more pie and everybody benefits.

The younger generations themselves are split into two classes.

• Those that do not want to take advantage of opportunities because it takes work
• And those that will climb a greased pole to get to the pot of gold at the top.

The former is affected heavily by the Jacksons/Sharptons that feel that the pot of gold pole should be climbed by whitey and handed over. Climbing the pole is to difficult.

True, but I'd recognize a third class: Those who would be willing to climb the pole, but aren't trying either because they don't recognize that the pole can be climbed by someone like them, or because their life to date has not given them the slightest concept of how one begins to climb the pole so it simply looks too daunting.

 

[EagleKeeper]

True, but I'd recognize a third class: Those who would be willing to climb the pole, but aren't trying either because they don't recognize that the pole can be climbed by someone like them, or because their life to date has not given them the slightest concept of how one begins to climb the pole so it simply looks too daunting.

That third class will exist, but become folded back into the first class.
Without trying; they will never succeed.

 

[Lithium381]

Responsibility.

It's culture.... not race holding blacks back fir the upcoming generation.

 

[Plugers]

.....your mom.

Seriously, every person has the same chance to make whatever they want for themselves in life. We are all the same.

 

[werepossum]

That third class will exist, but become folded back into the first class.
Without trying; they will never succeed.

True, but my point was that they would try and could succeed if convinced success was possible and/or had some idea how to try.

Put it this way: I don't think I could master taekwando. No one I know who looks like me is mastering taekwando. If however I saw some old, fat gray-haired men mastering taekwando, I might well start taking lessons. Knowing that something is possible is half the battle.

Responsibility.

It's culture.... not race holding blacks back fir the upcoming generation.

I largely agree, but someone in an earlier thread mentioned that black-sounding names have a very difficult time getting resume responses for good jobs. That might be at least partially due to culturally driven bad experiences with people bearing that kind of name, but if one HAS that name, one is undeniably being held back due to one's race, as regardless of what personal culture one has or embraces, one will never have the chance to show it. Even things that are driven solely by culture can hold people back solely due to race.

Example: Suppose a girl is named L-a (the dash don't be silent), a pretty ghetto name. L-a may be a genius-level, remarkable student with a resume that would make Einstein slap his mother, a girl who cures cancer, invents vaccines and heals lepers in her spare time, but if potential employers take one look at her name and trash her resume unopened she's never going to get to display her qualities, even quantifiable academic ones. She is being held back solely by her race and its perceived negatives.

 

[Matt1970]

Hey, I wasn't there.

 

[Svnla]

<snip>
Example: Suppose a girl is named L-a (the dash don't be silent), a pretty ghetto name. L-a may be a genius-level, remarkable student with a resume that would make Einstein slap his mother, a girl who cures cancer, invents vaccines and heals lepers in her spare time, but if potential employers take one look at her name and trash her resume unopened she's never going to get to display her qualities, even quantifiable academic ones. She is being held back solely by her race and its perceived negatives.

Ok, I will bite, Possum.

If I am L-a and I am being behind the 8 ball as you said above, I would tell the HR manager(s) that I would be a volunteer intern with no salary or benefit and they can fire me anytime if they don't think I am good enough just to show them what I am capable of. And then I would use any and all necessary revues to achieve my goal to be the best that I am.

Feeling sorry for myself or blaming whiteys or Bush or Republicans or whoever and/or do stupid things will NOT help me to achieve my goal(s).

But that is just me. Do anything and everything that I can to better myself, no matter the obstacle(s).

"Successful people make things happen, not so successful people make excuses" - author unknown

 

[Lithium381]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9ZpnAYUHu...Article268664_380_Image_gang_south_london.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iiuJCe739...YfL4/s1600/2709703301a3747217988b4052951l.jpg

This is the image that we have of blacks. That's what I grew up seeing. When will black "leaders" address the gang culture and violence? Why not talk about keeping families together?
That's why L-a has a hard time. It's not the whites holding her back.... it's the blacks. But not even all blacks...

We don't talk about the opposite spectrum. For an accounting job, would Mr. Smithson or Mr. Cheung sound more appealing? Asians are stereotypically good at math and very studious and hardworking. Asians have largely avoided the news and big stories and flown under the radar. They don't cause waves, they work hard and succeed.

 

[bradly1101]

The problem with blacks in america is basically that they have never been treated fairly.

I hear all manners of discussions that characterize black people as criminals, ignorant, unintelligent, racist, etc.. But really how would you expect a group of people to act when the moment that they arrived in america they were treated as subhumans or animals? Imagine how you would feel if you were labeled before you even had a chance to demonstrate who you really were.

Just 50 or 60 years ago it was ok in america to force black people to use separate water fountains, to sit in the back of the bus or public auditoriums, to use different entrances in public buildings. It was ok to lynch and hang black people over the slightest infractions. How would you feel if that was your legacy? How would you look at a society knowing that you were considered to be inferior no matter what you achieved in life?

I grew up with an immense love for reading. I love all forms of books whether it's fiction, history or math, I enjoy the pleasure of reading. During my grammar school years many of my test scores were on the level of college students. Yet despite the fact that I had an obvious aptitude for the written word, more often than not I was judged soley on the color of my skin. I remember at 11 years old being placed in a school for advanced students (which was predominately white) and had to be taken out because of the backlash from the students, teachers and parents (this was in the late 1980's). I can remember times walking home from the mall or school and being verbally and physically harassed for no other reason than being black. The reason I bring this up is simply to point out that this kind of treatment will naturally cause a reaction. Let me state for the record that I have never treated or spoke of any person of a different race or color in a derogatory manner. Nor do I condone any one doing so, although I can understand the frustration of people who may react in a less than civil manner.

When I read thoughts and comments such as the ones expressed here ( http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2331735 ), I can't help but to feel a little annoyed. I could argue the statements made in that thread for hours, but in the end it would achieve nothing in the larger scheme of things. I realize that this post itself will likely not change many opinions or feelings, but in the interest of present both sides of a coin I felt the need to put my thoughts online.

I couldn't agree more. I'm a big reader too.

I'm white and grew up in a neighborhood where only whites lived. When I learned about MLK in school, I couldn't understand why any group would be treated that way.

In eighth grade a black family moved in and was gone a year later. It was sad. I got to know their daughter. My dad said they were forced out. This was 1976.

I now live in a mixed city and mostly everyone gets along.

I too have difficulty with the way race is sometimes discussed here.

While white on black racism is disturbing, the reaction can be extreme and misdirected (to me). I had an appointment in downtown L.A. and decided to take the train (I try to be green when possible). I was alone in one section of a car after rolling my manual wheelchair to the disabled area (it was the beginning of the line in the middle of a weekday).

A young black man entered the car and I nodded to him. He sat directly across from me and said "Mutha fu@king cracka, you gonna die mutha fu@ker!"

I decided not to do anything (was I going to make a rolling escape?), so we just sat there silently for a minute, him looking at me, me starting straight ahead.

Finally someone else came into that section, and he walked to the back. I never saw him again, and I never take the train anymore.

The question is, how do we fix all this?

 

[werepossum]

Ok, I will bite, Possum.

If I am L-a and I am being behind the 8 ball as you said above, I would tell the HR manager(s) that I would be a volunteer intern with no salary or benefit and they can fire me anytime if they don't think I am good enough just to show them what I am capable of. And then I would use any and all necessary revues to achieve my goal to be the best that I am.

Feeling sorry for myself or blaming whiteys or Bush or Republicans or whoever and/or do stupid things will NOT help me to achieve my goal(s).

But that is just me. Do anything and everything that I can to better myself, no matter the obstacle(s).

"Successful people make things happen, not so successful people make excuses" - author unknown

That's a good plan as long as you have some source of income to let you live, and as long as you can get in to see the HR manager. In a big company, that can be a real challenge.

Incidentally my company had a guy who got a job here through just blind perseverance. He got out of the Army and decided he wanted to go into engineering, but he had no drafting or engineering experience and no money to get any, so he picked a company everybody said was the best and went to apply for a job. The owner told him politely that he couldn't hire anyone without specialized training. Every day Otis walked from his home in St Elmo Georgia to downtown Chattanooga, as he had no car and no money for a cab or bus. It's roughly 7 or 8 miles or so one way. After three or four weeks George decided that the dog in him was worth training, so he hired him and trained him. He was here for about forty years before retiring.

 

[bradley]

Become self-conscious enough in life and you'll realize many (people and groups) are gunning for you. They'll use everything against you including your race to get ahead.

Let's not pretend we're back in 50's and 60's any longer, when simply a tougher skin and fighting for your place in life is required. Life isn't perfect and then you die.