• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

The Problem with American Politics

With every thread in this forum resulting in blaming any problems on the president, I thought about why this might be the case. It seems to me that the problem is with the standard operating procedure of politics in this country. So, here are my thoughts on why things are as they are and how we might fix them.

First, the executive branch is, first and foremost, established to enforce the laws in this country. The president is the head of this branch of government and is, therefore, the leading law enforcement official in the nation. I believe that his job description should focus on this duty much moreso than the creation of policy, though it is the creation of policy that dictates the path of campaigns and elections. The creation/implementation of policy should be left to the legislature, as they are elected to promote the policy that the people want. They write the laws that the people want and the executive branch enforces them. If the legislature oversteps its bounds, based on the Constitution, then the judicial system is supposed to step in and remove the infringing laws. In this manner, we ensure that the voice of the people is heard (legislature), but that it does not trample the rights of the minority (judiciary). We also ensure that laws will be enforced as necessary to protect the rights of the many (executive branch).

The way I see the pendulum of power swinging in this country reminds me of the story of Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire. Maybe this sounds cliche due to all of the comparisons between the US and Rome, but bear with me. The Roman people sought to make Julius Caesar their emporer because they believed that their influence had expanded to the point where the senate was not fast-acting enough to make the necessary decisions. Thus, the power was shifted from the legislature to the executive branch, at first slowly, then in its entirety. The senate continued as a figurehead organization, giving people the illusion that the executive branch did not wield supreme executive power. This same path is being followed now in the US, whether we realize it or not. People focus almost entirely on the actions of the president, from the elections to day-to-day news. The legislature is nearly forgotten. The judiciary is mentioned only in reference to its fulfillment of the wishes of the executive branch. Many bills (not sure of the percentage) originate from the executive branch, rather than within the legislature. The executive branch's nearly complete control over the military (as ensured by politicking - cries of unpatriotic treason) gives it near-supreme executive power.

The checks and balances put in place in the Constitution have worked fairly well thus far in our little experiment in democracy. However, it is possible that, given sufficient time, the power of such a nation will wax and its peoples' pride will become such that they seek to increase their power. This is most readily accomplished by giving the power to the few, as this is the most rapidly responding form of government. These few can then consolidate their power and act as they see fit. When the masses have turned over the keys to the city, the government is no longer beholden to them. Greed, corruption, and lust for power are the only driving forces that the government need heed at this point, as the populus no longer has the ability to stop them from pushing their agenda to the brink. The government can even perform actions to catalyze their ascent, usually through a demonstration of patriotic might in military form to swell nationalism and blind the reason of its constituents with emotion.

The 'few' at the top in our country are not simply the Bush administration. They are the class of professional politicians - the elite of society. They have, through shrewd usage of their powers, slowly and steadily climbed above the masses and insulated themselves with money, power, and fame. They have consolidated their power and quashed all opposition by wielding their influence as a weapon. They make the rules that you and I are forced to abide by, though they are not held to the same standards due to their wealth and status. Those in the legislature are merely patsy for the executive branch, forced by politics to do as their leader does to keep up appearances. In the end, their actions are inconsequential. Either major party in power will accomplish much the same end, but by putting up a front that the two are diametrically opposed, the masses believe that there is still a true alternative to the inexorable trot off the precipice. However, those with experience dealing with government realize that so many layers of insulation (bureaucracy) have been put in place as to make change nearly unattainable.

I'll refrain for now from going into the implications of what I've said here, as there is only so much ranting I have in me tonight. Any thoughts are welcome.
 
Actually the biggest problem is religion in politics. Once we remove the filth of god from our politics then we can call our self a civillized people.
 
Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually the biggest problem is religion in politics. Once we remove the filth of god from our politics then we can call our self a civillized people.

LOL. You never cease to amaze me. Hitler wasn't religious, what is your opinion of him?
 
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually the biggest problem is religion in politics. Once we remove the filth of god from our politics then we can call our self a civillized people.

LOL. You never cease to amaze me. Hitler wasn't religious, what is your opinion of him?


Hitler was a devote christian, just like Bush. Evil men who death caused great joy.
 
Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually the biggest problem is religion in politics. Once we remove the filth of god from our politics then we can call our self a civillized people.
Take your bigotry elsewhere please. If you have something remotely related to my post, feel free to share it.
 
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually the biggest problem is religion in politics. Once we remove the filth of god from our politics then we can call our self a civillized people.

LOL. You never cease to amaze me. Hitler wasn't religious, what is your opinion of him?


Hitler was a devote christian, just like Bush. Evil men who death caused great joy.

No, Hitler was not a practicing Catholic. How about Stalin, he wasn't religious either and he killed something like 20 million people.
 
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually the biggest problem is religion in politics. Once we remove the filth of god from our politics then we can call our self a civillized people.

LOL. You never cease to amaze me. Hitler wasn't religious, what is your opinion of him?


Hitler was a devote christian, just like Bush. Evil men who death caused great joy.

No, Hitler was not a practicing Catholic. How about Stalin, he wasn't religious either and he killed something like 20 million people.

The results stalin wanted was nobel, but the means he used was wrong.
 
And ON TOPIC since this thread is clearly well thought out, I agree. The executive branch over time has gained in power and is clearly the most powerful branch, with no end in sight for it to continue gaining power. I'm not sure if it's created a problem, yet, but might well cause one in the not too distant future.
 
Originally posted by: ntdz
And ON TOPIC since this thread is clearly well thought out, I agree. The executive branch over time has gained in power and is clearly the most powerful branch, with no end in sight for it to continue gaining power. I'm not sure if it's created a problem, yet, but might well cause one in the not too distant future.
It's a problem. I quit typing my OP when guys wearing sunglasses and trenchcoats showed up and asked me to stop. 😛

edit: I highly recommend adopting my new addition to my ignore list to your own ignore list.
 
Originally posted by: ntdz
And ON TOPIC since this thread is clearly well thought out, I agree. The executive branch over time has gained in power and is clearly the most powerful branch, with no end in sight for it to continue gaining power. I'm not sure if it's created a problem, yet, but might well cause one in the not too distant future.


Which is why we need to get rid of our current goverment and go with a parlementary system. There even the PM doesn't have as much power as our president.
 
Originally posted by: DVK916
The results stalin wanted was nobel, but the means he used was wrong.
Not even close. The man was mentally ill in nearly every way imaginable. His paranoia was so incredible that in his final days he was busy designing a new purge, in which he aimed to kill more than 20% of the population.
 
while there is *some* truth in what you say, it should be pointed out that generally speaking Americans have paradoxically loved or believed in the power of government, while at the same time distrusting its might and reach. Almost no one can dispute that a strong govt. is necessary to create and provide for national defense, but the idea of spying on US citizens without a warrant (and assuming we're not in a crisis/wartime situation) is anathema to most of us.

also, that were this not a matter of national security and/or foreign policy, Congress and the judiciary would be far more active in checking the President than they are now. It is known that on issues of national security (and to a lesser extent foreign policy), both Congress and the judiciary out of respect for the executive branch's "expertise" as well as pragmatism defer to the President. If we didn't have 9/11 and the specter of terrorism, I can confidently say that the President would be on shakier ground for quashing dissent, violating civil liberties to apprehend terror suspects, etc.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
With every thread in this forum resulting in blaming any problems on the president, I thought about why this might be the case. It seems to me that the problem is with the standard operating procedure of politics in this country. So, here are my thoughts on why things are as they are and how we might fix them.

First, the executive branch is, first and foremost, established to enforce the laws in this country. The president is the head of this branch of government and is, therefore, the leading law enforcement official in the nation. I believe that his job description should focus on this duty much moreso than the creation of policy, though it is the creation of policy that dictates the path of campaigns and elections. The creation/implementation of policy should be left to the legislature, as they are elected to promote the policy that the people want. They write the laws that the people want and the executive branch enforces them. If the legislature oversteps its bounds, based on the Constitution, then the judicial system is supposed to step in and remove the infringing laws. In this manner, we ensure that the voice of the people is heard (legislature), but that it does not trample the rights of the minority (judiciary). We also ensure that laws will be enforced as necessary to protect the rights of the many (executive branch).

The way I see the pendulum of power swinging in this country reminds me of the story of Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire. Maybe this sounds cliche due to all of the comparisons between the US and Rome, but bear with me. The Roman people sought to make Julius Caesar their emporer because they believed that their influence had expanded to the point where the senate was not fast-acting enough to make the necessary decisions. Thus, the power was shifted from the legislature to the executive branch, at first slowly, then in its entirety. The senate continued as a figurehead organization, giving people the illusion that the executive branch did not wield supreme executive power. This same path is being followed now in the US, whether we realize it or not. People focus almost entirely on the actions of the president, from the elections to day-to-day news. The legislature is nearly forgotten. The judiciary is mentioned only in reference to its fulfillment of the wishes of the executive branch. Many bills (not sure of the percentage) originate from the executive branch, rather than within the legislature. The executive branch's nearly complete control over the military (as ensured by politicking - cries of unpatriotic treason) gives it near-supreme executive power.

The checks and balances put in place in the Constitution have worked fairly well thus far in our little experiment in democracy. However, it is possible that, given sufficient time, the power of such a nation will wax and its peoples' pride will become such that they seek to increase their power. This is most readily accomplished by giving the power to the few, as this is the most rapidly responding form of government. These few can then consolidate their power and act as they see fit. When the masses have turned over the keys to the city, the government is no longer beholden to them. Greed, corruption, and lust for power are the only driving forces that the government need heed at this point, as the populus no longer has the ability to stop them from pushing their agenda to the brink. The government can even perform actions to catalyze their ascent, usually through a demonstration of patriotic might in military form to swell nationalism and blind the reason of its constituents with emotion.

The 'few' at the top in our country are not simply the Bush administration. They are the class of professional politicians - the elite of society. They have, through shrewd usage of their powers, slowly and steadily climbed above the masses and insulated themselves with money, power, and fame. They have consolidated their power and quashed all opposition by wielding their influence as a weapon. They make the rules that you and I are forced to abide by, though they are not held to the same standards due to their wealth and status. Those in the legislature are merely patsy for the executive branch, forced by politics to do as their leader does to keep up appearances. In the end, their actions are inconsequential. Either major party in power will accomplish much the same end, but by putting up a front that the two are diametrically opposed, the masses believe that there is still a true alternative to the inexorable trot off the precipice. However, those with experience dealing with government realize that so many layers of insulation (bureaucracy) have been put in place as to make change nearly unattainable.

I'll refrain for now from going into the implications of what I've said here, as there is only so much ranting I have in me tonight.

Topic Title: The Problem with American Politics
Topic Summary: Too much executive power

Any thoughts are welcome.
Your Hero is the one exerting too much "executive' power and you are thrilled.
 
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: DVK916
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually the biggest problem is religion in politics. Once we remove the filth of god from our politics then we can call our self a civillized people.

LOL. You never cease to amaze me. Hitler wasn't religious, what is your opinion of him?


Hitler was a devote christian, just like Bush. Evil men who death caused great joy.

No, Hitler was not a practicing Catholic. How about Stalin, he wasn't religious either and he killed something like 20 million people.

The results stalin wanted was nobel, but the means he used was wrong.

Wrong. That might be said about Trotsky, but the rest of the original Soviet cadre was just a bunch of megamaniacal power-hungry murderers.
 
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Am I the only one who thinks that Dave is the Specal Olympics gold medalist of this forum?

He didn't even make the Special Olympics.
 
Congress was intended to be a check/balance to the power of the executive branch.

However, Congress has chosen to abdicate its authority because of political expediency.
They do not want to make the tough decisions.

This has left a vacum and natures abhores a vacum.
 
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Am I the only one who thinks that Dave is the Specal Olympics gold medalist of this forum?

I think it is a common conception. And a very accurate one.

Back on topic : the ENTIRE government has to much power over our lives. I would be willing to sacrifice some of our progress in order to remove a good 75% of the government completely.

We are the do-boys of whoever is in office. Which is why the libs are all up in arms about Bush. Thier sissified way of life is at the whim of a nutjob who can spend money like no one's business.

Both of the political parties today are just total BS, and both are all about making the government more prominent and powerful in people's lives. If you pick the libs, you are supporting a lazy government welfare-based society who wont stand up for themselves where people HAVE to rely on the government to live. If you pick the cons, you are supporting a military-based police society who will jump on ANYTHING that opposes them and force people to be reliant on government to be told what to do.

Either way, if we keep the political parties that are currently in power, our society will suffer.
 
This is a natural consequence of political parties. Note that while Clinton had the same Constitutional authority, his ability to exercise it was limited compared to Bush. Why? Because the Republicans controlled Congress in both instances. The ones who currently control the US is not the Govt, rather the Republicans through the instrument of govt.

Now it wouldn't be any different if the Dems had "their boy" in power if they controlled everything. It's the nature of the beast.

Now why on earth do people who question the wisdom of having so much power in the hands of one person want a line item veto? Why in the light of recent history does anyone think it would be used as anything other than one more club in the hands of a President? That's crazy talk.
 
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually the biggest problem is religion in politics. Once we remove the filth of god from our politics then we can call our self a civillized people.

LOL. You never cease to amaze me. Hitler wasn't religious, what is your opinion of him?

Adolf's strict Catholic upbringing was typical for the region. He served as an altar boy and sang in the choir but was not a practicing Catholic as an adult, though in public discourses he continued to frequently claim he was a Christian.
 
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually the biggest problem is religion in politics. Once we remove the filth of god from our politics then we can call our self a civillized people.

LOL. You never cease to amaze me. Hitler wasn't religious, what is your opinion of him?

Adolf's strict Catholic upbringing was typical for the region. He served as an altar boy and sang in the choir but was not a practicing Catholic as an adult, though in public discourses he continued to frequently claim he was a Christian.


Hmmm, who does that sound like...

Well actually at least hitler could speak coherently.
 
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually the biggest problem is religion in politics. Once we remove the filth of god from our politics then we can call our self a civillized people.

LOL. You never cease to amaze me. Hitler wasn't religious, what is your opinion of him?

Adolf's strict Catholic upbringing was typical for the region. He served as an altar boy and sang in the choir but was not a practicing Catholic as an adult, though in public discourses he continued to frequently claim he was a Christian.


One can claim to be The Grand Fish from Mars, but that does not make it so. Hitler was no Christian in spite of what he may have claimed.
 
Back
Top