The problem is Pakistan, not Afghanistan.

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
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I knew it was no co-incidence that the Pakistanis announced they had suddenly regained vision and found a bunch of Taliban leaders hiding in plain sight in their midst just when word got around that NATO had reconciled itself to at least talking to the "good" Taliban. It was later revealed that there had been secret contacts between Karzai and the Taliban. However, the Pakistanis, who saw any kind of Afghan reconciliation as inimical to their "interests" as the official p*mps (sorry, I'm trying to find a more fitting word but just can't) for the West in the sordid Afghan saga that's been going on for more than three decades, just couldn't stomach the fact that they would become irrelevant if the Afghans reconciled. Hence they rounded up the second level Taliban leadership with the usual fanfare about how hard they are fighting "terrorism" and thus threw spanner in the works. Pakistan's founder Jinnah was famously known to have a "problem for every solution" in his obsessive quest to found that wretched country. It looks like his descendants have learned well from him. Here's proof that the arrests came at a time when things were actually looking up for the international community in their quest to stabilize that country:

Pakistan arrests halt UN contacts with Taliban
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,619
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I find that Indians and Pakistanis, toward each other, are generally as insane as Israelis and Palestinians are to each other. I pay little attention to how bad one of these groups is if I don't know who is speaking and why.
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
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I find that Indians and Pakistanis, toward each other, are generally as insane as Israelis and Palestinians are to each other. I pay little attention to how bad one of these groups is if I don't know who is speaking and why.

And how exactly India come into the picture in a story that's about Pakistan two-timing the Taliban and the West?

In any case what you said may have been true years ago but nowadays most Indians wouldn't give a rat's a*se about Pakistan were it not for the latter's capacity for nuisance in the neighborhood and beyond (which the story I mentioned above amply demonstrates). India has one of the fastest growing economies in the world and Indians would dearly love to be left alone to concentrate on it.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
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I find that Indians and Pakistanis, toward each other, are generally as insane as Israelis and Palestinians are to each other. I pay little attention to how bad one of these groups is if I don't know who is speaking and why.

yo bitch head, how the hell did you pull India from your rotten ass in this thread?
 
Jun 26, 2007
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yo bitch head, how the hell did you pull India from your rotten ass in this thread?

tvarad is a Hindu Indian who wants to spread Hinduism by the sword, if i remember correctly.

He hates all things Pakistani as most Hindi Indians do, Moonbeam called him on it and he's correct.

His caste is so high that he needs to do cocain just to come down to earth.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,299
740
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tvarad is a Hindu Indian who wants to spread Hinduism by the sword, if i remember correctly.

He hates all things Pakistani as most Hindi Indians do, Moonbeam called him on it and he's correct.

His caste is so high that he needs to do cocain just to come down to earth.

Dude... you are so predictable, stop doing that, be a man, you don't fool anyone here anymore.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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And how exactly India come into the picture in a story that's about Pakistan two-timing the Taliban and the West?

In any case what you said may have been true years ago but nowadays most Indians wouldn't give a rat's a*se about Pakistan were it not for the latter's capacity for nuisance in the neighborhood and beyond (which the story I mentioned above amply demonstrates). India has one of the fastest growing economies in the world and Indians would dearly love to be left alone to concentrate on it.

Of ALL allies to the US and the UK (i can't speak for other nations because i frankly don't know what intelligence was shared with others) in the war in Afghanistan, Pakistans ISI has been the greatest, you obviously don't know your head from your arse and don't care much about that either. All you want is to spread your hatred for Pakistan.

It won't fly if you are going to try it with anyone even close to understanding how everything went down initially (then the US just fucked everything up by removing all troops and all air support from the area but that is another story) and how things have been working ever since.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
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740
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tvarad is a Hindu Indian who wants to spread Hinduism by the sword, if i remember correctly.

He hates all things Pakistani as most Hindi Indians do, Moonbeam called him on it and he's correct.

His caste is so high that he needs to do cocain just to come down to earth.

and back to your original post... This thread, has nothing, even remotely to do with India, its about Pak, UN and US, unnecessarily dragging India into it is plain simple stupidity and bigotry.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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and back to your original post... This thread, has nothing, even remotely to do with India, its about Pak, UN and US, unnecessarily dragging India into it is plain simple stupidity and bigotry.

I even explained it to you in the message you quoted...

I didn't say sheit about India except to explain WHY Moonbeam posted what he did. If you weren't completely fucked in the head you might have noticed that.

Now run along...
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
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I even explained it to you in the message you quoted...

I didn't say sheit about India except to explain WHY Moonbeam posted what he did. If you weren't completely fucked in the head you might have noticed that.

Now run along...

That is the point you ignorant bastard, moonbeam (your alter ego) mentioned Indian, you defend moonbeam so you indirectly drag India in this thread too and fuel the troll. I just want you to STOP. tvarad posted on this thread just coz India was unfairly dragged in to this conversation. Now please you and your "moonbeam" please disappear from the thread, preferable from the site and if possible from the earth.
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
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It is useful to post the article in it's entirety to bring it back to where it was before being rudely interrupted by the usual innuendo. I've bolded Eide's indictment of Pakistan's role in scuppering the negotiations with the Taliban.

Pakistan arrests halt UN contacts with Taliban

By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer Deb Riechmann, Associated Press Writer

KABUL – The arrests of top Taliban figures in Pakistan abruptly halted secret U.N. contacts with the insurgency at a time when the efforts were gathering momentum, the U.N.'s former envoy to Afghanistan said Friday.

Kai Eide, a Norwegian diplomat who just stepped down from the U.N. post here in the Afghan capital, said the discussions that he and others from the U.N. had with senior Taliban members began in the spring of 2009 and included face-to-face conversations in Dubai and elsewhere.

He criticized Pakistan for arresting the Taliban's No. 2 and other members of the insurgency, saying the Pakistanis surely knew the roles these figures had in efforts to find a political resolution to the 8-year-old war. Pakistan denies the arrests were linked to reconciliation talks.

"There was an increase in intensity of contacts, but this process came to a halt following the arrests that took place in Pakistan," Eide told The Associated Press in a telephone interview from his home outside Oslo.


Last month's detention of Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar — second in the Taliban only to Mullah Mohammed Omar — infuriated Afghan President Hamid Karzai, one of Karzai's advisers told the AP. Besides the ongoing talks, the adviser, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive topic, said Baradar had "given a green light" to participating in a three-day peace "jirga" or conference that Karzai is hosting next month.

However, Gen. Athar Abbas, a spokesman for the Pakistani military, said Friday that Baradar's arrest, which he said was a joint operation with the U.S., was not connected to any peace talks. "Reconciliation or talks have nothing to do with the arrest of Baradar," he said. "It has nothing to do with the talks. Serious arrests are being made continuously."

The Obama administration has said it supports efforts to welcome back any militants who renounce violence, cut ties with al-Qaida and recognize and respect the Afghan constitution.

During a visit to Afghanistan last week, however, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said it was premature to expect senior members of the Taliban to reconcile with the government and until the insurgents believe they can't win the war, they won't come to the table.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has said she's highly skeptical that Taliban leaders will be willing to renounce violence.

But Britain's foreign secretary said the Afgan government should aggressively pursue a political settlement while the U.S.-led military surge is putting pressure on the Taliban.

David Miliband said in a speech at Massachusetts Institute of Technology this month that a political settlement needs the support of Afghanistan's neighbors and should include "those parts of the insurgency willing permanently to sever ties with al-Qaida" and abandon armed struggle.

Eide, whose comments were first reported on Friday by the BBC, said there was a lull in contacts between the U.N. and the insurgents around last summer's Afghan presidential election, but then they intensified.

[/B]"It's quite clear that the level of contact was increasing over the last few months to one point and that's when you had the number of arrests in Pakistan," he said.[/B]

Eide said there were many channels of communication with the Taliban, including those involving Karzai's representative. Eide said the negotiations must be led by the Afghans, but that contacts have been made by other parties.

"I know many have tried," he said, declining to identify those who have reached out to the Taliban.

Eide said the U.N. had met senior figures in the Taliban leadership as well as people who have the authority from the Quetta Shura to engage in such discussions. Named after a city in Pakistan, the Quetta Shura is the ruling council of the Taliban.

He said he believed that the talks, which he said were still in the early stages, could not have taken place without the blessing of Omar, the Taliban leader. "I cannot say with certainty, but I'm pretty sure," Eide said. "I find it hard to believe that these contacts could take place without his knowledge."

Eide predicted it would take weeks, months or even longer to establish confidence on both sides.

"The reason why I am commenting on this is, of course, that I have always believed that a political process was absolutely required as an integral part of our strategy," he said.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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That is the point you ignorant bastard, moonbeam (your alter ego) mentioned Indian, you defend moonbeam so you indirectly drag India in this thread too and fuel the troll. I just want you to STOP. tvarad posted on this thread just coz India was unfairly dragged in to this conversation. Now please you and your "moonbeam" please disappear from the thread, preferable from the site and if possible from the earth.

No, i was trying to explain to your dumb arse WHY Moonbeam gave the comments he did.

Obviously you are incapable of understanding even the simplest things, even after having them explained to you TWICE so this is my last comment to you in this thread, can't speak for Moonbeam though, he might have more to say.

My earlier point still stands, the ISI was the most helpful allied service to TFB during the initial invasion and have not stopped being helpful since.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
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It is useful to post the article in it's entirety to bring it back to where it was before being rudely interrupted by the usual innuendo. I've bolded Eide's indictment of Pakistan's role in scuppering the negotiations with the Taliban.

Pakistan arrests halt UN contacts with Taliban

By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer Deb Riechmann, Associated Press Writer

KABUL – The arrests of top Taliban figures in Pakistan abruptly halted secret U.N. contacts with the insurgency at a time when the efforts were gathering momentum, the U.N.'s former envoy to Afghanistan said Friday.

Kai Eide, a Norwegian diplomat who just stepped down from the U.N. post here in the Afghan capital, said the discussions that he and others from the U.N. had with senior Taliban members began in the spring of 2009 and included face-to-face conversations in Dubai and elsewhere.

He criticized Pakistan for arresting the Taliban's No. 2 and other members of the insurgency, saying the Pakistanis surely knew the roles these figures had in efforts to find a political resolution to the 8-year-old war. Pakistan denies the arrests were linked to reconciliation talks.

"There was an increase in intensity of contacts, but this process came to a halt following the arrests that took place in Pakistan," Eide told The Associated Press in a telephone interview from his home outside Oslo.


Last month's detention of Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar — second in the Taliban only to Mullah Mohammed Omar — infuriated Afghan President Hamid Karzai, one of Karzai's advisers told the AP. Besides the ongoing talks, the adviser, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive topic, said Baradar had "given a green light" to participating in a three-day peace "jirga" or conference that Karzai is hosting next month.

However, Gen. Athar Abbas, a spokesman for the Pakistani military, said Friday that Baradar's arrest, which he said was a joint operation with the U.S., was not connected to any peace talks. "Reconciliation or talks have nothing to do with the arrest of Baradar," he said. "It has nothing to do with the talks. Serious arrests are being made continuously."

The Obama administration has said it supports efforts to welcome back any militants who renounce violence, cut ties with al-Qaida and recognize and respect the Afghan constitution.

During a visit to Afghanistan last week, however, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said it was premature to expect senior members of the Taliban to reconcile with the government and until the insurgents believe they can't win the war, they won't come to the table.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has said she's highly skeptical that Taliban leaders will be willing to renounce violence.

But Britain's foreign secretary said the Afgan government should aggressively pursue a political settlement while the U.S.-led military surge is putting pressure on the Taliban.

David Miliband said in a speech at Massachusetts Institute of Technology this month that a political settlement needs the support of Afghanistan's neighbors and should include "those parts of the insurgency willing permanently to sever ties with al-Qaida" and abandon armed struggle.

Eide, whose comments were first reported on Friday by the BBC, said there was a lull in contacts between the U.N. and the insurgents around last summer's Afghan presidential election, but then they intensified.

[/B]"It's quite clear that the level of contact was increasing over the last few months to one point and that's when you had the number of arrests in Pakistan," he said.[/B]

Eide said there were many channels of communication with the Taliban, including those involving Karzai's representative. Eide said the negotiations must be led by the Afghans, but that contacts have been made by other parties.

"I know many have tried," he said, declining to identify those who have reached out to the Taliban.

Eide said the U.N. had met senior figures in the Taliban leadership as well as people who have the authority from the Quetta Shura to engage in such discussions. Named after a city in Pakistan, the Quetta Shura is the ruling council of the Taliban.

He said he believed that the talks, which he said were still in the early stages, could not have taken place without the blessing of Omar, the Taliban leader. "I cannot say with certainty, but I'm pretty sure," Eide said. "I find it hard to believe that these contacts could take place without his knowledge."

Eide predicted it would take weeks, months or even longer to establish confidence on both sides.

"The reason why I am commenting on this is, of course, that I have always believed that a political process was absolutely required as an integral part of our strategy," he said.

Anything less than completely eradicating the Taliban counts as a lost cause.

Anything less and ALL of this has been for exactly nothing, status quo. Al Quaeda and the Taliban are one and the same in Afghanistan and Pakistan, this has been known for a good decade by now.

I don't see a problem with this at all. But of course, i don't hate pakis because i want Hinduism to rule the world by the sword either, so that might be why.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,299
740
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No, i was trying to explain to your dumb arse WHY Moonbeam gave the comments he did.

Obviously you are incapable of understanding even the simplest things, even after having them explained to you TWICE so this is my last comment to you in this thread, can't speak for Moonbeam though, he might have more to say.

My earlier point still stands, the ISI was the most helpful allied service to TFB during the initial invasion and have not stopped being helpful since.

There cannot be any sane justification for dragging India into this thread, and but repeatedly trying to defend him, you just proved that you are a douchebag who just wants to pick a fight and feed his inner bigot.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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There cannot be any sane justification for dragging India into this thread, and but repeatedly trying to defend him, you just proved that you are a douchebag who just wants to pick a fight and feed his inner bigot.

Are you fucking retarded? *I* did not bring up India, i just told you *WHY* Moonbeam gave the comments he did.

This is the FOURTH time i'm explaining this to you, i should heed my words in the previous post and just not feed this troll anymore because NO ONE who is as fucking daft as you make yourself out to be can possibly be able to figure out how a keyboard works.

Now fuck off you daft twat.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,619
6,717
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No, i was trying to explain to your dumb arse WHY Moonbeam gave the comments he did.

Obviously you are incapable of understanding even the simplest things, even after having them explained to you TWICE so this is my last comment to you in this thread, can't speak for Moonbeam though, he might have more to say.

My earlier point still stands, the ISI was the most helpful allied service to TFB during the initial invasion and have not stopped being helpful since.

Hehe, all I have to say is that if an Indian posted this thread and others backed it, I was right on the money. I don't pay any attention to what Indians say about Pakistan because they are nutso on the subject. I also don't pay any attention to what Pakistanis say about India because they are as generally nutso on the subject too. The difference between a Pakistani and an Indian, in my opinion is Zero and I like them both equally. It's not me who is nutso about these two groups, it's them about each other, in too many cases. My 10 month old niece whom I love and care for is 1/2 Indian and her Dad, the 1/2 contributer is, my nephew, is a great father and best friend. Take your bigot shit and shove it up your ass, those of you accusing me of that.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,619
6,717
126
There cannot be any sane justification for dragging India into this thread, and but repeatedly trying to defend him, you just proved that you are a douchebag who just wants to pick a fight and feed his inner bigot.

Are you an Indian, you stupid asshole?
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
Anything less than completely eradicating the Taliban counts as a lost cause.

Anything less and ALL of this has been for exactly nothing, status quo. Al Quaeda and the Taliban are one and the same in Afghanistan and Pakistan, this has been known for a good decade by now.

I don't see a problem with this at all. But of course, i don't hate pakis because i want Hinduism to rule the world by the sword either, so that might be why.

And yet, the powers that are financing this war, putting their soldiers in harm's way and are Al Qaeda's public enemy number one think otherwise. All one needs to do is to connect the dots to see who stands to lose the most if a solution that is amicable to all Afghans is found. No wonder the Pakistani army is suddenly pulling Taliban rabbits out of it's hat after denying there were any in there for so long.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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And yet, the powers that are financing this war, putting their soldiers in harm's way and are Al Qaeda's public enemy number one think otherwise. All one needs to do is to connect the dots to see who stands to lose the most if a solution that is amicable to all Afghans is found. No wonder the Pakistani army is suddenly pulling Taliban rabbits out of it's hat after denying there were any in there for so long.

It's not my job to limit the political costs of the failure that was brought on by the US when the Taliban were cornered and we had a chance to finish this war, it's my job to do what we set out to do a long time ago, to eliminate the Taliban.

Again, ISI has been a very helpful ally in this, you can ask anyone who has any knowledge on the matter and he'll tell you the same thing.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
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740
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Are you fucking retarded? *I* did not bring up India, i just told you *WHY* Moonbeam gave the comments he did.

This is the FOURTH time i'm explaining this to you, i should heed my words in the previous post and just not feed this troll anymore because NO ONE who is as fucking daft as you make yourself out to be can possibly be able to figure out how a keyboard works.

Now fuck off you daft twat.

Now you clean the cum over you eyes and read carefully you m0therfvckin son of a b1tch. *I* did not say you dragged india into it, *I* said you supported the assh0le who did that and that makes you a douchebag
 
Jun 26, 2007
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yes I am and unlike you I dont try to hide it, I am proud to be one, motherfvcker

You know, i've never understood how you can be proud over something that you had absolutely nothing to do with.

I'm not proud to be a Jew, nor am i proud to be an Englishman, why would i be, i just happened to be born in England to a Jewish mother.

I am proud over the things i have accomplished though and i think that those who need to feel pride in heritage or nationality are those who have never accomplished anything they can be proud of.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Now you clean the cum over you eyes and read carefully you m0therfvckin son of a b1tch. *I* did not say you dragged india into it, *I* said you supported the assh0le who did that and that makes you a douchebag

"and back to your original post... This thread, has nothing, even remotely to do with India, its about Pak, UN and US, unnecessarily dragging India into it is plain simple stupidity and bigotry. "

Your reply to me.

Obviouly your ganja is too strong, go lie down and hump a pillow for a while.