The pointlessness of 1080p?

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Todd33
1080P@60Hz is part of the standard and has been.

Not to mention that most flat panels that claim 1080i support are only 1366x768 while true 1080p is 1920x1080.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Todd33
1080P@60Hz is part of the standard and has been.

Really? I hadn't heard that. In fact, wikipedia disagrees.

Due to bandwidth limitations of broadcast frequencies, the ATSC and DVB have standardized only the frame rates of 24, 25, and 30 frames per second (1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p30). 1080p30 is currently the most bandwidth-intensive video mode supported. If the standard MPEG-2 compression is used, versions with higher frame rate such as 1080p50 and 1080p60 could only be sent over higher-bandwidth channels; to send these over normal-bandwidth channels, a more modern codec such as the H.264/MPEG-4 AVC codec must be used. Higher frame rates such as 1080p50 and 1080p60 are currently for private or internal use only, and are not part of the broadcasting standard.

A new high-definition progressive scan format for picture creation is currently being developed to operate at 1080p at 50 or 60 frames per second[citation needed]. This format will require a whole new range of studio equipment including cameras, storage, edit and contribution links as it has doubled the data rate of current 50 or 60 field interlace 1920 × 1080 from 1.485 Gb/s to nominally 3 Gb/s. It is unable to be broadcast in a compressed transmission to current MPEG-2 based HD receivers. This format will improve final pictures because of the benefits of "oversampling" and removal of interlace artifacts.

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: Xenon14
I have a Sony 40" LCDtv 1080i at home receiving a 1080i HD signal. I dont think the added resolution of 1080p on my 40" would make any noticeable difference (unless I wanted to zoom in)

My question is: At what size TV does 1080p become necessary?

1080i doesn't look as good as 1080p so when it becomes necessary is up to you. I have a 37" 1080p set and the extra pixels are far more useful to me because I use this display as my PC monitor, gaming and movies. 720p/1080i doesn't work as well for a PC display due to its low resolution.

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
It wouldn't make a difference. You'd need to go to 50"+ to notice a difference.

The other main issue is that cable/satellite companies are not going to go to 1080p for sometime, since the bandwidth requirements are double 1080i and 720p.

Yup. I think the only place you'll see 1080p content at the moment is from a console that can drive it.

Don't forget about PC games.

Are you really sure that it's 1080p?

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Xenon14
I have a Sony 40" LCDtv 1080i at home receiving a 1080i HD signal. I dont think the added resolution of 1080p on my 40" would make any noticeable difference (unless I wanted to zoom in)

My question is: At what size TV does 1080p become necessary?

Considering 1080p is only 30hz and 1080i is 60hz, there really should be no difference between the two, except that 1080p will look better on flat panel displays with poor scaling capabilities. (still, taking 1080p at 30hz and making it into 1080i at 60hz isn't really scaling anything)

It's not that there is no difference between a progressive scan and interlaced signal at your screen size, it's that in order to get a progressive signal you'd be halving the framerate, and there's fundamentally little difference between seeing 30 whole frames or 60 half frames.

Anyhow, 1080 (whatever) is the ideal resolution for movies (which are only 30fps or less anyway), but I'd argue 720p is better for fast motion video (60 fps) and video games that run at 60fps (which is a must imo).

Thats is why you go with 1080P/60, not 30.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: Xenon14
I have a Sony 40" LCDtv 1080i at home receiving a 1080i HD signal. I dont think the added resolution of 1080p on my 40" would make any noticeable difference (unless I wanted to zoom in)

My question is: At what size TV does 1080p become necessary?

1080i doesn't look as good as 1080p so when it becomes necessary is up to you. I have a 37" 1080p set and the extra pixels are far more useful to me because I use this display as my PC monitor, gaming and movies. 720p/1080i doesn't work as well for a PC display due to its low resolution.

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
It wouldn't make a difference. You'd need to go to 50"+ to notice a difference.

The other main issue is that cable/satellite companies are not going to go to 1080p for sometime, since the bandwidth requirements are double 1080i and 720p.

Yup. I think the only place you'll see 1080p content at the moment is from a console that can drive it.

Don't forget about PC games.

Are you really sure that it's 1080p?

It's 1920x1080 and since it's an LCD it's not interlaced so yeah I'm pretty sure.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Todd33
1080P@60Hz is part of the standard and has been.

Really? I hadn't heard that. In fact, wikipedia disagrees.

Due to bandwidth limitations of broadcast frequencies, the ATSC and DVB have standardized only the frame rates of 24, 25, and 30 frames per second (1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p30). 1080p30 is currently the most bandwidth-intensive video mode supported. If the standard MPEG-2 compression is used, versions with higher frame rate such as 1080p50 and 1080p60 could only be sent over higher-bandwidth channels; to send these over normal-bandwidth channels, a more modern codec such as the H.264/MPEG-4 AVC codec must be used. Higher frame rates such as 1080p50 and 1080p60 are currently for private or internal use only, and are not part of the broadcasting standard.

A new high-definition progressive scan format for picture creation is currently being developed to operate at 1080p at 50 or 60 frames per second[citation needed]. This format will require a whole new range of studio equipment including cameras, storage, edit and contribution links as it has doubled the data rate of current 50 or 60 field interlace 1920 × 1080 from 1.485 Gb/s to nominally 3 Gb/s. It is unable to be broadcast in a compressed transmission to current MPEG-2 based HD receivers. This format will improve final pictures because of the benefits of "oversampling" and removal of interlace artifacts.

Just because it isn't standard doesn't mean that it isn't the goal. 720p was never supposed to be the stopping point for HD, its only a middle ground because 1080p is too resource demanding. 720p is @ 60 fps, 1080p is supposed to be as well. Of course that's supposed to be TV, things like movies are perfectly acceptable @ 1080p24 - but the goal for HDTV all along has been 1080p60.

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: Xenon14
I have a Sony 40" LCDtv 1080i at home receiving a 1080i HD signal. I dont think the added resolution of 1080p on my 40" would make any noticeable difference (unless I wanted to zoom in)

My question is: At what size TV does 1080p become necessary?

1080i doesn't look as good as 1080p so when it becomes necessary is up to you. I have a 37" 1080p set and the extra pixels are far more useful to me because I use this display as my PC monitor, gaming and movies. 720p/1080i doesn't work as well for a PC display due to its low resolution.

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
It wouldn't make a difference. You'd need to go to 50"+ to notice a difference.

The other main issue is that cable/satellite companies are not going to go to 1080p for sometime, since the bandwidth requirements are double 1080i and 720p.

Yup. I think the only place you'll see 1080p content at the moment is from a console that can drive it.

Don't forget about PC games.

Are you really sure that it's 1080p?

It's 1920x1080 and since it's an LCD it's not interlaced so yeah I'm pretty sure.

The only problem is there is an over abundance of monitors that are 1080P internally but only accept 1080i officially, and when they recieve 1080p, they convert it to 1080i then back to 1080p which is completely retarded...

 

[rbV5]

have a Sony 40" LCDtv 1080i at home receiving a 1080i HD signal. I dont think the added resolution of 1080p on my 40" would make any noticeable difference (unless I wanted to zoom in)

It "probably" would....maybe

LCD's can't really support 1080i since they can't display interlaced material. What happens with a set like yours with a 1080i broadcast is that the vertical resolution is halved to 540 and then upconverted to 720p for display.

Unfortunately, because "1080p" is a marketing term and not a standard, many of the "new" 1080p sets do the exact same thing. Manufacturers aren't up front about actual specifications or panel pixel density, instead tout resolution "support", so users are at the mercy of the community at large for real information.

Its easy to see why users prefer 720p for HD sports broadcasting if the are using a progressive display considering that scenario. On the other hand, CSI is broacast in 1080i and often touted as one of the nicest looking broadcasts, and if you are watching on a common 720p panel...its 540p upconverted

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: rbV5

have a Sony 40" LCDtv 1080i at home receiving a 1080i HD signal. I dont think the added resolution of 1080p on my 40" would make any noticeable difference (unless I wanted to zoom in)

It "probably" would....maybe

LCD's can't really support 1080i since they can't display interlaced material. What happens with a set like yours with a 1080i broadcast is that the vertical resolution is halved to 540 and then upconverted to 720p for display.

Unfortunately, because "1080p" is a marketing term and not a standard, many of the "new" 1080p sets do the exact same thing. Manufacturers aren't up front about actual specifications or panel pixel density, instead tout resolution "support", so users are at the mercy of the community at large for real information.

Its easy to see why users prefer 720p for HD sports broadcasting if the are using a progressive display considering that scenario. On the other hand, CSI is broacast in 1080i and often touted as one of the nicest looking broadcasts, and if you are watching on a common 720p panel...its 540p upconverted

That's why you get something like a Sharp Aquos 1080p display that upconverts 1080i.

 

[Rubycon]

It's outdated as 1600p displays are available now. :Q

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: Xenon14
I have a Sony 40" LCDtv 1080i at home receiving a 1080i HD signal. I dont think the added resolution of 1080p on my 40" would make any noticeable difference (unless I wanted to zoom in)

My question is: At what size TV does 1080p become necessary?

1080i doesn't look as good as 1080p so when it becomes necessary is up to you. I have a 37" 1080p set and the extra pixels are far more useful to me because I use this display as my PC monitor, gaming and movies. 720p/1080i doesn't work as well for a PC display due to its low resolution.

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
It wouldn't make a difference. You'd need to go to 50"+ to notice a difference.

The other main issue is that cable/satellite companies are not going to go to 1080p for sometime, since the bandwidth requirements are double 1080i and 720p.

Yup. I think the only place you'll see 1080p content at the moment is from a console that can drive it.

Don't forget about PC games.

Are you really sure that it's 1080p?

It's 1920x1080 and since it's an LCD it's not interlaced so yeah I'm pretty sure.

The only problem is there is an over abundance of monitors that are 1080P internally but only accept 1080i officially, and when they recieve 1080p, they convert it to 1080i then back to 1080p which is completely retarded...

The Westinghouse has true 1080p inputs and displays a true 1080p picture.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

The Westinghouse has true 1080p inputs and displays a true 1080p picture.

Sadly, the 2407fpw only supports up to 1080i with HDCP protection...

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

The Westinghouse has true 1080p inputs and displays a true 1080p picture.

Sadly, the 2407fpw only supports up to 1080i with HDCP protection...

That's why I love the Westinghouse display so much. The picture quality is fantastic, the inputs are true 1080p (with HDCP) and best of all the price is way better than rival name brand competitors like Sony/Toshiba/Sharp/Samsung.

 

[Sonikku]

1080p has it's uses. Myself, I'm into serious home theaters and use a Projector for the bulk of my high end gaming and movie watching as it best re-creates a theater like environment. 1080p is useful when you're pushing a screen this big. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/Foxy_McCloud/IMG_3090-1.jpg

Now for a 40" or so TV, I could settle for 1080i or 720p if I had to. 1080p is of most benefit to people with huge displays, like projector users.

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Todd33
1080P@60Hz is part of the standard and has been.

Really? I hadn't heard that. In fact, wikipedia disagrees.

Due to bandwidth limitations of broadcast frequencies, the ATSC and DVB have standardized only the frame rates of 24, 25, and 30 frames per second (1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p30). 1080p30 is currently the most bandwidth-intensive video mode supported. If the standard MPEG-2 compression is used, versions with higher frame rate such as 1080p50 and 1080p60 could only be sent over higher-bandwidth channels; to send these over normal-bandwidth channels, a more modern codec such as the H.264/MPEG-4 AVC codec must be used. Higher frame rates such as 1080p50 and 1080p60 are currently for private or internal use only, and are not part of the broadcasting standard.

A new high-definition progressive scan format for picture creation is currently being developed to operate at 1080p at 50 or 60 frames per second[citation needed]. This format will require a whole new range of studio equipment including cameras, storage, edit and contribution links as it has doubled the data rate of current 50 or 60 field interlace 1920 × 1080 from 1.485 Gb/s to nominally 3 Gb/s. It is unable to be broadcast in a compressed transmission to current MPEG-2 based HD receivers. This format will improve final pictures because of the benefits of "oversampling" and removal of interlace artifacts.

So... What do you call it when I play Half Life 2 in 1920x1080 @ 85htz on my FW900? (or 60htz, if that floats your boat.) Is that considered High Def?

 

[Fox5]

So... What do you call it when I play Half Life 2 in 1920x1080 @ 85htz on my FW900? (or 60htz, if that floats your boat.) Is that considered High Def?

It's not part of the official high def TV spec. I bet you'll never see ps3 doing 1080p at 60hz, it will remain purely a PC resolution. I don't consider pc reses high def, otherwise even 1024x768 that everyone has been using since 1996 has been high def.