The pointlessness of 1080p?

[Xenon14]

I have a Sony 40" LCDtv 1080i at home receiving a 1080i HD signal. I dont think the added resolution of 1080p on my 40" would make any noticeable difference (unless I wanted to zoom in)

My question is: At what size TV does 1080p become necessary?

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

There is a noticeable difference between 720p/1080i and 1080p if the source material is of high enough quality. I would say a 40" television would be the point where things start becoming more noticeable between these different resolutions. Granted it's not as drastic as 480i to 1080i, but it is still noticeable IMHO.

 

[cpirius]

From my understanding, 1080i is only a thing for CRT based tvs. A 1080 LCD tv will have 1920x1080 or similar resolution, and LCD's are inherently progressive scan.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449-6361600-1.html

I use a westinghouse 42" 1080p lcd tv through DVI for my pc monitor, and I can say that the resolution increase over 720 makes a big difference for desktop use and games to me, but not nearly as much for movies.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

The other major factor along with the screen size is the distance you are away from it. To give an arbitrary screen size doesn't make any sense without that information.

 

[jiffylube1024]

It wouldn't make a difference. You'd need to go to 50"+ to notice a difference.

The other main issue is that cable/satellite companies are not going to go to 1080p for sometime, since the bandwidth requirements are double 1080i and 720p.

 

[Wreckage]

If you have actual 1080P source material like Blu-ray or from a computer the difference will be huge.

I am assuming your TV is about 1366x768 while 1080p is 1920x1080. If you don't notice the difference between those 2, you either need glasses or you don't even need an HDTV.

 

[TheRyuu]

lol
1080p>*
In order of what I prefer:
1080p>720p>1080i>****

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
It wouldn't make a difference. You'd need to go to 50"+ to notice a difference.

The other main issue is that cable/satellite companies are not going to go to 1080p for sometime, since the bandwidth requirements are double 1080i and 720p.

Yup. I think the only place you'll see 1080p content at the moment is from a console that can drive it.

 

[Todd33]

Blu-ray, HD-DVD, PCs.

I'm on a 42" 1080P right now.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
If you have actual 1080P source material like Blu-ray or from a computer the difference will be huge.

I am assuming your TV is about 1366x768 while 1080p is 1920x1080. If you don't notice the difference between those 2, you either need glasses or you don't even need an HDTV.

IF you're watching 1080p on a computer monitor, which is a higher resolution display device and one you usually sit much closer to, then yes it should make a difference. For example a 24" LCD which you only sit a couple feet from. 1080p will make a difference.

However, if you're talking about a television set up in a living area, you typically sit 5-15 feet away from it, and you'd need to go 50"+ for it to make a significant difference.

Plus nobody is going to broadcast 1080p for a long time because of the bandwidth required per channel (massive).

Originally posted by: cpirius
From my understanding, 1080i is only a thing for CRT based tvs. A 1080 LCD tv will have 1920x1080 or similar resolution, and LCD's are inherently progressive scan.

1080i is the preferred HD broadcast format of beautiful/picturesque/slow moving programs. Thse include the Discovery Channel, Golf, Baseball, scenic shows, etc. It has little to do with CRT technology (though 1080i is the max resolution supported by CRT HDTV's).

720p is the preferred HD broadcast format of fast moving programs and sports, such as racing, basketball, etc.

 

[Pens1566]

As someone has already noted 1080p > 720p > 1080i. Sports look horrible on 1080i compared to 720p. ABC/ESPN are 720p and their picture is soooooo much better than NBC/CBS for football.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Xenon14
I have a Sony 40" LCDtv 1080i at home receiving a 1080i HD signal. I dont think the added resolution of 1080p on my 40" would make any noticeable difference (unless I wanted to zoom in)

My question is: At what size TV does 1080p become necessary?

1080i doesn't look as good as 1080p so when it becomes necessary is up to you. I have a 37" 1080p set and the extra pixels are far more useful to me because I use this display as my PC monitor, gaming and movies. 720p/1080i doesn't work as well for a PC display due to its low resolution.

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
It wouldn't make a difference. You'd need to go to 50"+ to notice a difference.

The other main issue is that cable/satellite companies are not going to go to 1080p for sometime, since the bandwidth requirements are double 1080i and 720p.

Yup. I think the only place you'll see 1080p content at the moment is from a console that can drive it.

Don't forget about PC games.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
As someone has already noted 1080p > 720p > 1080i. Sports look horrible on 1080i compared to 720p. ABC/ESPN are 720p and their picture is soooooo much better than NBC/CBS for football.

That makes no sense. If you want to compare 720p to 1080i you have to compare them with the same source, not different sources. Otherwise there's thousands of variables that could be affecting your perception that have nothing to do with resolution.


And in the real world, you aren't in a showroom with 40 tvs to compare, you are watching one tv from several feet away. In that case nobody could see any difference between any of the HD resolutions, unless it's at least a 37-40 inch tv or larger.

 

[nwrigley]

Originally posted by: Xenon14
I have a Sony 40" LCDtv 1080i at home receiving a 1080i HD signal. I dont think the added resolution of 1080p on my 40" would make any noticeable difference (unless I wanted to zoom in)

My question is: At what size TV does 1080p become necessary?

There is no "right" answer to this question. Some people are going to notice a difference more than others. It also depends on what you're using the display for and how close you're sitting to it.

I doubt very many people have actually had the chance to view the same material on three comparable televisions at each resolution, so most responses are just going to be speculation.

 

[Liver]

Originally posted by: nwrigley

Originally posted by: Xenon14
I have a Sony 40" LCDtv 1080i at home receiving a 1080i HD signal. I dont think the added resolution of 1080p on my 40" would make any noticeable difference (unless I wanted to zoom in)

My question is: At what size TV does 1080p become necessary?

There is no "right" answer to this question. Some people are going to notice a difference more than others. It also depends on what you're using the display for and how close you're sitting to it.

I doubt very many people have actually had the chance to view the same material on three comparable televisions at each resolution, so most responses are just going to be speculation.

very good answer.

also there is no "necessary." if you like what you have, end of story. if you are looking for upgrading, I think getting a 1080p screen is logical.

 

[nrb]

If you take the diagonal measurement of the screen in inches and divide by 5.13, that will give you the distance in feet at which a person with normal eyesight will be unable to see any difference at all between 720p and 1080p. (I won't bore you with all the algebra, but this is based on the assumption that the typical human eye has a resolving power of 1 arc-second).

It is reasonable to regard the same number as the optimum viewing distance for a 720p screen. To get the optimum distance for 1080p, divide by 7.69 rather than 5.13.

Thus, to get the best out of a 40" 1080p screen you should be sitting approximately 5.2 feet from the screen. If you're as much as 7.8 feet away, 720p will (other things being equal) look just as good as 1080p.

 

[Hadsus]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: Pens1566
As someone has already noted 1080p > 720p > 1080i. Sports look horrible on 1080i compared to 720p. ABC/ESPN are 720p and their picture is soooooo much better than NBC/CBS for football.

That makes no sense. If you want to compare 720p to 1080i you have to compare them with the same source, not different sources. Otherwise there's thousands of variables that could be affecting your perception that have nothing to do with resolution.


And in the real world, you aren't in a showroom with 40 tvs to compare, you are watching one tv from several feet away. In that case nobody could see any difference between any of the HD resolutions, unless it's at least a 37-40 inch tv or larger.

I've owned HDTVs (plasma and CRT) for seven or eight years. I know ESPN does 720p but it never occurs to me while I'm watching, whoa, this picture is better (or worse) than Discovery HD, CBS football, or any other 1080i I'm watching. Like you said, the source plays a significant role on how well an image looks.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Don't forget about PC games.

You're referring to PC games on an LCDTV/etc I assume, and not PC gaming on PC monitors?

Because I don't think PC gaming on a standard monitor will need 1080p support (implying HDCP) for a long time, if ever. Yes, gaming is better on a high resolution display, but we're talking about 1080p here - the "other" HD standard used in newer HTDV's and to be used in BlueRay (and most HD-DVD's I think) but not broadcast HDTV.

 

[Netopia]

What about video over FiOS? It's my understanding that FiOS only sends programming info for the individual channel you are watching, and sends it at MUCH higher bandwidth and resolution than Cable/Satellite. I have neither FiOS nor HDTV, but if anyone does, perhaps they can weigh in.

Joe

 

[bruceb]

I never heard that about FIOS ... I thought you still needed some sort of converter box at each tv
If not, how would your "watch a program" and say "tape something else" if they only send 1 channel at a time ? ?
Verizon is using a Motorola Set Top Box which can be had with a built in HD DVR function (160gb drive)

See link for more info:

http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2005/10/verizon_fios_tv.html

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Xenon14
I have a Sony 40" LCDtv 1080i at home receiving a 1080i HD signal. I dont think the added resolution of 1080p on my 40" would make any noticeable difference (unless I wanted to zoom in)

My question is: At what size TV does 1080p become necessary?

Considering 1080p is only 30hz and 1080i is 60hz, there really should be no difference between the two, except that 1080p will look better on flat panel displays with poor scaling capabilities. (still, taking 1080p at 30hz and making it into 1080i at 60hz isn't really scaling anything)

It's not that there is no difference between a progressive scan and interlaced signal at your screen size, it's that in order to get a progressive signal you'd be halving the framerate, and there's fundamentally little difference between seeing 30 whole frames or 60 half frames.

Anyhow, 1080 (whatever) is the ideal resolution for movies (which are only 30fps or less anyway), but I'd argue 720p is better for fast motion video (60 fps) and video games that run at 60fps (which is a must imo).

 

[Todd33]

1080P@60Hz is part of the standard and has been.

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: cpirius
1080i is only a thing for CRT based tvs. A 1080 LCD tv will have 1920x1080 or similar resolution, and LCD's are inherently progressive scan.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: Pens1566
As someone has already noted 1080p > 720p > 1080i. Sports look horrible on 1080i compared to 720p. ABC/ESPN are 720p and their picture is soooooo much better than NBC/CBS for football.

That makes no sense. If you want to compare 720p to 1080i you have to compare them with the same source, not different sources. Otherwise there's thousands of variables that could be affecting your perception that have nothing to do with resolution.


And in the real world, you aren't in a showroom with 40 tvs to compare, you are watching one tv from several feet away. In that case nobody could see any difference between any of the HD resolutions, unless it's at least a 37-40 inch tv or larger.

While I agree with the different sources part of your post, 720p is a better resolution for sports, which is what I was referring to. Spend some time @avs forums if you disagree. Oh, and its a 57" Hitachi in case you were wondering.

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: Tom
And in the real world, you aren't in a showroom with 40 tvs to compare, you are watching one tv from several feet away. In that case nobody could see any difference between any of the HD resolutions, unless it's at least a 37-40 inch tv or larger.

Yeah but I think a lot of people are getting tvs bigger than 40" nowadays. Remember the movie Back to the Future 2 where they have this huge flat panel tv on the wall? We're fast approaching a day when that will be standard.