The Playstation 4 Rumours, Innuendo, and Speculation thread

[lamedude]

You forgot Sega Master System-"SG-1000" and Genesis/Megadrive-Sega Master System and there was even a PC that could play Genesis games.

 

[I4AT]

Here's a thought, what do you guys think is gonna happen to the current implementations of XBL and PSN when the next gen consoles are released?

Microsoft pulled the plug on LIVE features for OG Xbox games shortly after the 360's release. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sony were to make a similar move and launch Orbis with a PSN 2.0 or something, and re-release a handful of the best PSN sellers for us to buy again.

 

[AE-Ruffy]

No. Go look at stuff like Glide wrappers, Dosbox and such. Emulators. You can run a different architecture on another, it's just not efficient, or easy.

Sony's programmers are too incompetent to write a proper emulator. Look at the failed attempt with the ps2 emulation. On top of that their PS1 emulation doesn't provide any benefits like shader upgrades or fsaa.

 

[reallyscrued]

Sony's programmers are too incompetent to write a proper emulator. Look at the failed attempt with the ps2 emulation. On top of that their PS1 emulation doesn't provide any benefits like shader upgrades or fsaa.

Too incompetent? I didn't even realize that was a possibility. They have the designs for the original programming for Christ's sake.

Here's a thought, what do you guys think is gonna happen to the current implementations of XBL and PSN when the next gen consoles are released?

Microsoft pulled the plug on LIVE features for OG Xbox games shortly after the 360's release. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sony were to make a similar move and launch Orbis with a PSN 2.0 or something, and re-release a handful of the best PSN sellers for us to buy again.

It's gonna suck.

That's what's gonna happen.

 

[Todd33]

Sony's programmers are too incompetent to write a proper emulator. Look at the failed attempt with the ps2 emulation. On top of that their PS1 emulation doesn't provide any benefits like shader upgrades or fsaa.

PS1 games don't use shaders.

 

[AE-Ruffy]

PS1 games don't use shaders.

no but through emulation, epsxe along with petes plugins DO and it does make a difference.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Sony's programmers are too incompetent to write a proper emulator. Look at the failed attempt with the ps2 emulation. On top of that their PS1 emulation doesn't provide any benefits like shader upgrades or fsaa.

But who cares about improvements? It's about playing the old game, not breathing life into it.

And yes, Sony's guys are incompetent...even the 360's backcompat isn't that good.

 

[Todd33]

no but through emulation, epsxe along with petes plugins DO and it does make a difference.

They also use high end PCs, not six year old consoles. The bottom line is no body cares about BC, Sony and MS are never going to waste money on it.

 

[RampantAndroid]

They also use high end PCs, not six year old consoles. The bottom line is no body cares about BC, Sony and MS are never going to waste money on it.

Because MS didn't do it for the 360.

Oh, wait...

 

[Todd33]

Because MS didn't do it for the 360.

Oh, wait...

They started to then gave up. The list was limited and lots of them were poor performing. The same with the PS3, they had additional hardware and then just removed it. It cost too much to support and its use is very limited.

I consider myself a much more hardcore gamer than the general population. I used the 360 BC for a few games (Fable) and the PS3 BC for none (bought FFXII and never played it). I also played zero PS1 games on my PS2 and PS3. I also played zero GC games on my Wii. I probably know a dozen people with PS3/360/Wiis now and none of them have ever used BC or ever asked about it. It is simply a feature that a small noisy group talks about but no one uses.

 

[Spydermag68]

I have the MGS 80gig PS3. I care about BC and I use it for both PS1 and PS2 games.

 

[zerocool84]

I have the MGS 80gig PS3. I care about BC and I use it for both PS1 and PS2 games.

Of course some people use it but the reality is that it's not important enough to the average person to warrant a more expensive console. PS3 took it out, Wii took it out, Xbox 360 has limited compatibility.

 

[ApexBoost]

I consider myself a much more hardcore gamer than the general population. I used the 360 BC for a few games (Fable) and the PS3 BC for none (bought FFXII and never played it). I also played zero PS1 games on my PS2 and PS3. I also played zero GC games on my Wii. I probably know a dozen people with PS3/360/Wiis now and none of them have ever used BC or ever asked about it. It is simply a feature that a small noisy group talks about but no one uses.

Generally I'd agree, but with this console generation lasting this long I'd like for the games I've spent hundreds of dollars on to be compatible on my next piece of hardware. Sure I can keep my PS3 to play those games on but I'd rather just have one dedicated system in the living room to do it all and move the PS3 to my bedroom for blue rays and netflix.

Its not as big of a deal as some make it out to be but it certainly would be nice and it would greatly influence my purchase decision near launch. Otherwise I'll likely wait it out a bit.

 

[-Slacker-]

I consider myself a much more hardcore gamer

Fable

:hmm:....

 

[Todd33]

:hmm:....

By hardcore I mean I play many more games than an average console owner and follow the industry, I'm not hardcore like in terms of difficulty or competition.

 

[waggy]

Actually, yes they did, badly. In fact, a lot of people thought this was a big factor as to why Sega was able to put themselves on the map during the 16bit generation.



I'm assuming you are younger then 13?

WiiU-Wii
3DS-DS
PS3-PS2
Wii-GCN
XB360-XB
PS2-PS1
DS-GBA
GBA-GBC
SNES-GB
GBC-GB
Atari 7800-Atari 2600
Colecovision- Atari 2600*
Intellivision II- Intellivision I *and* Atari 2600

A couple of notable issues from *slightly* prior to the PS1- The Atari 5200 was a failure mainly because it was incapable of playing Atari 2600 games. The 7800 hit after the crash, but still had greater success in marketplace acceptance. ColecoVision and Intellivision both played Atari 2600 games depending on the exact setup you had for your console, at the time it was extremely strange, today the lawsuits that would fly at the implication of such a thing is daunting to consider. Still, for gamers on a budget back in the day this was a hefty incentive to grab one of the competitors over the, at the time, all powerful 2600.

Heh pwned?

Intellivision II was great. I loved that system. we had the "voice" addon for games. B17 bomber was fucking graet.

You list a lot of reasons why I continue to get new systems when one dies. BC on most.

People bitching about BC are just old geezers living in the past. Keep your PS1 if you want to play PS1 games.

The same people complain about how ugly the next generation of cars look, or use the phrase "back in my day...." to explain how everything used to be better.

The rest of us buy new consoles to enjoy new games.

LOL finding a new PS1 system to play is next to impossible. Hell even PS2 systems are getting harder to find.

BC is a huge bonus for me. if they have in the PS4 i will buy one. IF not then i will wait until they get dirt cheap.

hell i been tempted to get a Xbox 360 for the huge library of games with xbox and xbox360.

 

[RussianSensation]

So many people here want BC for PS4 but let's think about this for a moment....

What did PS3 need to play PS2 games? PS2 hardware. This is because PS3 used the Cell processor and NV GPU.

Ok now PS4 is rumored to use AMD A8-3870 CPU + HD6670 GPU. How can they possibly ensure proper BC with a Cell CPU and NV GPU of PS3?

I would assign a 95% probably that BC has been scrapped. Regardless, even if PS4 could emulate PS3 games in software, some older games won't work properly since software emulation is never as good as having actual PS3 hardware in the console. The best thing to do is just keep your old PS3. Most PS4 buyers would likely want a cheaper PS4 than have to pay $100+ more for a PS4 with hardware BC.

 

[reallyscrued]

Regardless, even if PS4 could emulate PS3 games in software, some older games won't work properly since software emulation is never as good as having actual PS3 hardware in the console...

Software emulation doesn't work properly a lot of the time because the ones you probably fiddled with were designed by people in their spare time...

Sony has all the original schematics for their consoles. We're in the age of virtual machines and 8 core processors. It's no excuse.

They are lazy and/or want to capitalize on HD remakes.

I bet anyone $50 we'll see Metal Gear Solid 3D collection in the next gen.

 

[alent1234]

So many people here want BC for PS4 but let's think about this for a moment....

What did PS3 need to play PS2 games? PS2 hardware. This is because PS3 used the Cell processor and NV GPU.

Ok now PS4 is rumored to use AMD A8-3870 CPU + HD6670 GPU. How can they possibly ensure proper BC with a Cell CPU and NV GPU of PS3?

I would assign a 95% probably that BC has been scrapped. Regardless, even if PS4 could emulate PS3 games in software, some older games won't work properly since software emulation is never as good as having actual PS3 hardware in the console. The best thing to do is just keep your old PS3. Most PS4 buyers would likely want a cheaper PS4 than have to pay $100+ more for a PS4 with hardware BC.

this is why going forward consoles will probably use the same CPU architecture in every new generation

 

[vshah]

this is why going forward consoles will probably use the same CPU architecture in every new generation

which looks to be x86

 

[RussianSensation]

They are lazy and/or want to capitalize on HD remakes.

Good point but it's not just "being lazy". Sony is in serious trouble right now.

Sony posts record high $5.7 billion annual loss, worst in company history.

If I was Sony, there is no way I'd support BC in PS4 and spend millions of dollars trying to get it to work or put PS3 hardware into the console. It's not a matter of pleasing a few hardcore gamers, but a matter of priorities. It's do or die for Sony. They can't afford to waste millions of dollars. When I got my N64, it wasn't backwards compatible with NES/SNES. When I had Genesis, it wasn't BC with anything.

BC is overrated. If Sony delivers a console with great games, amazing graphics at the right price, PS3 fans will be all over it like white on rice regardless of BC. Considering Sony doesn't charge $50 annual fee to play games or Netflix, it's already WAY ahead of the game of MS for next round. Assuming they don't go nuts with $400+ pricing, they should be in good shape since Sony exclusives > MS imho.

And frankly, we buy next generation consoles to play next generation games. There is no way gamers should have any right whatsoever to demand BC as standard. If it's there, great bonus. But BC should never be a deciding factor because people who buy next generation consoles are assumed to want to buy next generation games. If you are going to buy PS4 and not get any PS4 games, Sony doesn't care about you since they make $ off the games, not the hardware. And if you buy the next Xbox because you are upset that Sony ditched BC, you still don't get BC with your PS3 games. While BC would be a nice bonus, I don't think it's that important.

So really, people here can complain all they want about lack of BC, but they'll be buying PS4 without it anyway because the alternative is Xbox or Wii U with no PS3 BC anyway! If BC is such a deal breaker, there is a perfect solution for that - PC gaming

this is why going forward consoles will probably use the same CPU architecture in every new generation

Extremely doubtful. In 10 years from now, we may have exhausted the ability to manufacture CPUs using silicon. We are already at about 20 atoms across and at 5 atoms across, the CPU would melt. Also, using quantum theory we wouldn't know where the electron would be. Thus, in 10 years, there could be some other new materials which would pave way for completely different CPU architectures built on stackable CPUs, or something else entirely. That's so far away, it's very difficult to predict.

What I can guarantee with 100% certainty, PS5 (if it exists) will not use any CPU based on Llano CPU architecture (Athlon A8-3870) or whatever AMD GPU architecture will be available in 10 years will have nothing in common with VLIW-5 architecture of HD6670. So your statement is ambiguous. I think what you mean is that they'll stick to x86 CPU processors, but the CPU architecture will definitely have nothing in common with PS4's CPU.

We have also seen MS abandon Pentium III in Xbox and go with PowerPC cores with Xbox360 and they'll continue using those for Xbox next. However, for all we know Intel or AMD might offer MS a better chip for the price, performance/watt, etc. in 10 years from now. We don't even know if PowerPC architecture will even exist then since IBM isn't really a leader in CPU design.

Also, you are not thinking outside the box. In 10-15 years GPUs may be able to do Ray-Tracing not Rasterization that's used today. This fundamental change in how graphics are computed/displayed would wipe out any possibility of backwards compatibility with any consoles launched in 2024 and beyond.

Finally, while far fetched, consoles may not even make sense by then and we'll be streaming our digital games from our smartphones to our TV or from our laptops/tablets. Who knows

In 2-3 years from now smartphones and tablets will already have more GPU power than PS3/360.

 

[jrphoenix]

They started to then gave up. The list was limited and lots of them were poor performing. The same with the PS3, they had additional hardware and then just removed it. It cost too much to support and its use is very limited.

I consider myself a much more hardcore gamer than the general population. I used the 360 BC for a few games (Fable) and the PS3 BC for none (bought FFXII and never played it). I also played zero PS1 games on my PS2 and PS3. I also played zero GC games on my Wii. I probably know a dozen people with PS3/360/Wiis now and none of them have ever used BC or ever asked about it. It is simply a feature that a small noisy group talks about but no one uses.

Actually they didn't give up... they found out that people would pay for online downloads of games in their marketplace, original xbox included (sony the same thing). Why encourage people to buy used copies of old games to play on the new system when you can charge them to download the game. Good business decision.

 

[Aikouka]

I think what you mean is that they'll stick to x86 CPU processors, but the CPU architecture will definitely have nothing in common with PS4's CPU.

Pretty sure they're referring to the Instruction Set Architecture of the CPU not the manufacturing process or the chip's overall design.

 

[Todd33]

Actually they didn't give up... they found out that people would pay for online downloads of games in their marketplace, original xbox included (sony the same thing). Why encourage people to buy used copies of old games to play on the new system when you can charge them to download the game. Good business decision.

That's a small market and many years after the console's launch, so it really has less to do with BC and more to do with a small profit stream.

 

[RampantAndroid]

this is why going forward consoles will probably use the same CPU architecture in every new generation

Who wants to bet that the PS5 and XBox 1440 will consider using ARM, and might even move to ARM?