The place where tyrants lecture the U.S. on human rights

[BBond]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Close - what I meant was that until the UN actually holds itself to higher standards, it'll just be seen as a worthless debating club filled with dictators.

CsG

How worthless can it be as long as it gives us a forum to debate with those Dictators?

And is debate the ultimate goal? Or is change and action the ultimate goal?

Of course ebate isn't the ultimate goal. Deate is a means to a goal which doesn't require fabricating information at the cost of 100,000 lives and $200 billion. Not to mention our reputation around the globe.

If you just want debate where nothing is done - then fine keep the UN like it is. If you want the UN to actually be worthwhile and show results - it needs to change. It needs to hold itself to higher standards.

CsG

As do we.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Close - what I meant was that until the UN actually holds itself to higher standards, it'll just be seen as a worthless debating club filled with dictators.

CsG

How worthless can it be as long as it gives us a forum to debate with those Dictators?

And is debate the ultimate goal? Or is change and action the ultimate goal?

Of course ebate isn't the ultimate goal. Deate is a means to a goal which doesn't require fabricating information at the cost of 100,000 lives and $200 billion. Not to mention our reputation around the globe.

If you just want debate where nothing is done - then fine keep the UN like it is. If you want the UN to actually be worthwhile and show results - it needs to change. It needs to hold itself to higher standards.

CsG

As do we.

:roll: nice try, but try sticking to the UN issue instead of trotting out your anti-Bush/anti-American tripe.

If debate isn't the goal - the what is? No, not some anti-America diatribe - what is the ultimate goal?

CsG

 

[BBond]

The ultimate goal is a world at peace instead of murdering untold numbers with an overly aggressive barbaric policy that in the end only leads to more war.

Perma-war is not the goal. War is not peace. Occupation is not freedom. You can't "bring" democracy at the point of a gun. It's oppression.

And the "anti-American diatribe" is an article with facts about what our government is doing in the name of freedom. You need to read it if you haven't already or read it again if you have. You obviously missed something the first time around.

 

[Beowulf]

I still can't believe they'd add Cuba especially when the day after the EU lifted the ban he came out on tv bashing them.

Cuba does not need the United States, it does not need Europe. ... What a wonderful thing to be able to say."

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BBond
The ultimate goal is a world at peace instead of murdering untold numbers with an overly aggressive barbaric policy that in the end only leads to more war.

Perma-war is not the goal. War is not peace. Occupation is not freedom. You can't "bring" democracy at the point of a gun. It's oppression.

And the "anti-American diatribe" is an article with facts about what our government is doing in the name of freedom. You need to read it if you haven't already or read it again if you have. You obviously missed something the first time around.

If the ultimate goal is a "world at peace", then don't you think the body charged with attempting to do that should actually do something besides just debate it? Shouldn't they not allow places like Cuba to be on the Human Rights Commission if they want people to take them seriously? Shouldn't they start with the organizations/countries within it's own body first?

Freedom House, which scores countries according to political freedoms, last year noted that 13 members ? a quarter of the commission ? ranked as either "repressive" or "not free," representing the very bottom of the barrel worldwide. Reporters Without Borders has duly observed that nearly half ? 25 ? haven't even ratified the human-rights treaties they're supposedly charged with enforcing.

Doh!

CsG

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: BBond
The ultimate goal is a world at peace instead of murdering untold numbers with an overly aggressive barbaric policy that in the end only leads to more war.

Perma-war is not the goal. War is not peace. Occupation is not freedom. You can't "bring" democracy at the point of a gun. It's oppression.

And the "anti-American diatribe" is an article with facts about what our government is doing in the name of freedom. You need to read it if you haven't already or read it again if you have. You obviously missed something the first time around.

If the ultimate goal is a "world at peace" bob, then don't you think the body charged with attempting to do that should actually do something besides just debate it? Shouldn't they not allow places like Cuba to be on the Human Rights Commission if they want people to take them seriously? Shouldn't they start with the organizations/countries within it's own body first?

Freedom House, which scores countries according to political freedoms, last year noted that 13 members ? a quarter of the commission ? ranked as either "repressive" or "not free," representing the very bottom of the barrel worldwide. Reporters Without Borders has duly observed that nearly half ? 25 ? haven't even ratified the human-rights treaties they're supposedly charged with enforcing.

Doh!

CsG

Apparently they should add the USA to that list based on our recent activities.

What would you have them do? Launch a pre-emptive attack? :roll:

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: BBond
The ultimate goal is a world at peace instead of murdering untold numbers with an overly aggressive barbaric policy that in the end only leads to more war.

Perma-war is not the goal. War is not peace. Occupation is not freedom. You can't "bring" democracy at the point of a gun. It's oppression.

And the "anti-American diatribe" is an article with facts about what our government is doing in the name of freedom. You need to read it if you haven't already or read it again if you have. You obviously missed something the first time around.

If the ultimate goal is a "world at peace" bob, then don't you think the body charged with attempting to do that should actually do something besides just debate it? Shouldn't they not allow places like Cuba to be on the Human Rights Commission if they want people to take them seriously? Shouldn't they start with the organizations/countries within it's own body first?

Freedom House, which scores countries according to political freedoms, last year noted that 13 members ? a quarter of the commission ? ranked as either "repressive" or "not free," representing the very bottom of the barrel worldwide. Reporters Without Borders has duly observed that nearly half ? 25 ? haven't even ratified the human-rights treaties they're supposedly charged with enforcing.

Doh!

CsG

Apparently they should add the USA to that list based on our recent activities.

What would you have them do? Launch a pre-emptive attack? :roll:

Launch a pre-emptive attack on who? What "list" are you talking about?

Anyway, you can continue with your anti-American tripe but this issue is about the UN. There are plenty of thread(including those started by you) for you to spout your hatred of America - this one is about the worthlessness of the UN.

CsG

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: BBond
The ultimate goal is a world at peace instead of murdering untold numbers with an overly aggressive barbaric policy that in the end only leads to more war.

Perma-war is not the goal. War is not peace. Occupation is not freedom. You can't "bring" democracy at the point of a gun. It's oppression.

And the "anti-American diatribe" is an article with facts about what our government is doing in the name of freedom. You need to read it if you haven't already or read it again if you have. You obviously missed something the first time around.

If the ultimate goal is a "world at peace" bob, then don't you think the body charged with attempting to do that should actually do something besides just debate it? Shouldn't they not allow places like Cuba to be on the Human Rights Commission if they want people to take them seriously? Shouldn't they start with the organizations/countries within it's own body first?

Freedom House, which scores countries according to political freedoms, last year noted that 13 members ? a quarter of the commission ? ranked as either "repressive" or "not free," representing the very bottom of the barrel worldwide. Reporters Without Borders has duly observed that nearly half ? 25 ? haven't even ratified the human-rights treaties they're supposedly charged with enforcing.

Doh!

CsG

Apparently they should add the USA to that list based on our recent activities.

What would you have them do? Launch a pre-emptive attack? :roll:

no, stop pretending the un has some kind of moral authority.

 

[aidanjm]

are people aware that less than 30% of the UN's resources, time, etc. are devoted to peace keeping? They do other, arguably more important stuff, like wiping out certain infectious diseases, assisting with dealing with poverty, famine, starvation, providing a way for nations to talk to each other on issues like disease, starvation, etc.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
are people aware that less than 30% of the UN's resources, time, etc. are devoted to peace keeping? They do other, arguably more important stuff, like wiping out certain infectious diseases, assisting with dealing with poverty, famine, starvation, providing a way for nations to talk to each other on issues like disease, starvation, etc.

Alright, lets go there. Care to show some "results" from the UN? Sure the UN can throw money around like the best of them, but do the results last - do they fix anything or are they just handing out band-aids?

CsG

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: aidanjm
are people aware that less than 30% of the UN's resources, time, etc. are devoted to peace keeping? They do other, arguably more important stuff, like wiping out certain infectious diseases, assisting with dealing with poverty, famine, starvation, providing a way for nations to talk to each other on issues like disease, starvation, etc.

Alright, lets go there. Care to show some "results" from the UN? Sure the UN can throw money around like the best of them, but do the results last - do they fix anything or are they just handing out band-aids?

CsG

Handing out bandaids?

UNICEF -- What We Do

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
are people aware that less than 30% of the UN's resources, time, etc. are devoted to peace keeping? They do other, arguably more important stuff, like wiping out certain infectious diseases, assisting with dealing with poverty, famine, starvation, providing a way for nations to talk to each other on issues like disease, starvation, etc.

Sure have kept peace in Sudan. Or peace in Rwanda in the 90's. Or peace in Serbia. Or Checnya. Or southern Phillipines.

Great job.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: aidanjm
are people aware that less than 30% of the UN's resources, time, etc. are devoted to peace keeping? They do other, arguably more important stuff, like wiping out certain infectious diseases, assisting with dealing with poverty, famine, starvation, providing a way for nations to talk to each other on issues like disease, starvation, etc.

Sure have kept peace in Sudan. Or peace in Rwanda in the 90's. Or peace in Serbia. Or Checnya. Or southern Phillipines.

Great job.

It's NOT THEIR JOB. THE UN DOESN'T HAVE IT'S OWN MILITARY FORCES. Criticising the UN for failing to keep the peace, is like criticising an apple for not being an orange. Why don't you go to the UN web site, and read up about what they actually do. They have probably saved countless lives through their work eradicating infectious diseases around the world.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: aidanjm
are people aware that less than 30% of the UN's resources, time, etc. are devoted to peace keeping? They do other, arguably more important stuff, like wiping out certain infectious diseases, assisting with dealing with poverty, famine, starvation, providing a way for nations to talk to each other on issues like disease, starvation, etc.

Alright, lets go there. Care to show some "results" from the UN? Sure the UN can throw money around like the best of them, but do the results last - do they fix anything or are they just handing out band-aids?

CsG

Handing out bandaids?

UNICEF -- What We Do

Good job, you *may* have found one, now what else?
BTW - how much of the UNICEF money actually gets to the end recipient?

CsG

 

[raildogg]

It's NOT THEIR JOB. THE UN DOESN'T HAVE IT'S OWN MILITARY FORCES. Criticising the UN for failing to keep the peace, is like criticising an apple for not being an orange. Why don't you go to the UN web site, and read up about what they actually do. They have probably saved countless lives through their work eradicating infectious diseases around the world.

Here, read up on the UN"s failure IN EVERY WAY.

Sierra Leone

Rwanda

Investigators also told the U.N. the real investigation has not begun yet.

The human rights team had been recalled by Annan after months of being obstructed in their probe.

Rwanda, frustrated by the slow pace of the U.N. tribunal, is undertaking its own trials of 125,000 suspects. So far, 144 of 337 convicted have received death sentences.

Iran: U.N. Fails to Condemn Rights Abuses

"We're very disappointed that the Iran resolution failed," said Hanny Megally, executive director of the Middle East and North Africa division of Human Rights Watch. "The human rights crisis in Iran is only getting worse, and this unfortunate decision will not help it to get better."

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://web.amnesty.org/web/wire.nsf/september2001/east_timor">
U.N. takes over in East Timor, and then drops the ball leading to further violence and anarchy</a>

Great peacekeeping.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: aidanjm
are people aware that less than 30% of the UN's resources, time, etc. are devoted to peace keeping? They do other, arguably more important stuff, like wiping out certain infectious diseases, assisting with dealing with poverty, famine, starvation, providing a way for nations to talk to each other on issues like disease, starvation, etc.

Alright, lets go there. Care to show some "results" from the UN? Sure the UN can throw money around like the best of them, but do the results last - do they fix anything or are they just handing out band-aids?

CsG

Handing out bandaids?

UNICEF -- What We Do

Good job, you *may* have found one, now what else?
BTW - how much of the UNICEF money actually gets to the end recipient?

CsG

Moving the goal posts again.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: raildogg

It's NOT THEIR JOB. THE UN DOESN'T HAVE IT'S OWN MILITARY FORCES. Criticising the UN for failing to keep the peace, is like criticising an apple for not being an orange. Why don't you go to the UN web site, and read up about what they actually do. They have probably saved countless lives through their work eradicating infectious diseases around the world.

Here, read up on the UN"s failure IN EVERY WAY.

Sierra Leone

Rwanda

Investigators also told the U.N. the real investigation has not begun yet.

The human rights team had been recalled by Annan after months of being obstructed in their probe.

Rwanda, frustrated by the slow pace of the U.N. tribunal, is undertaking its own trials of 125,000 suspects. So far, 144 of 337 convicted have received death sentences.

Iran: U.N. Fails to Condemn Rights Abuses

"We're very disappointed that the Iran resolution failed," said Hanny Megally, executive director of the Middle East and North Africa division of Human Rights Watch. "The human rights crisis in Iran is only getting worse, and this unfortunate decision will not help it to get better."

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://web.amnesty.org/web/wire.nsf/september2001/east_timor">
U.N. takes over in East Timor, and then drops the ball leading to further violence and anarchy</a>

Great peacekeeping.

boy did you ever miss the point :roll:

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: raildogg

America is the beacon of democracy, freedom and liberty. It'll always be that way, whether you like it or not.

this deserves a firm LOL

The only people who believe this are americans who believe the garbage that they have been spoon fed since elementary school.

 

[cwjerome]

The UN is a pitiful club of thugs and their favorite useful idiots- the (Liberal) Elites. I think we pretty much stopped taking it seriously in the 1970s and basically ignored it in the 1980s. When the UN tried to re-assert itself after the cold war in the 1990s, it found a willing accomplice with Clinton... and in this love-fest we saw a corresponding reduction in the American military, influence, and power. Thankfully, since 2000 we have put the UN back in its irrelevant box.

We look to no one else but ourselves to defend our borders, fight our battles, make our laws, and decide domestic policy. We are unabashingly independent, and when the Elites and their foolish followers criticize our hard-headed independence and call it "obsolete" or "isolationist" or "unilateralist", it is actually THEM who are willing to toss out the American traditions and principles that have kept us strong and on the winning side of history, in favor of the whims and personal preferences of an unelected gang of Elites, bureaucrats, and despots.

To his credit, the late Dem senator Moynihan stood up and waged a ceaseless war as our UN Ambassador in defense of liberal democracy and American values. He refused to apoligize for our success and defended the US against the the Soviet, Arab, and third-world blocks. Sadly his influence was not permanent. Political correctness took hold in the 90s... and we are suffering the price.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: aidanjm
are people aware that less than 30% of the UN's resources, time, etc. are devoted to peace keeping? They do other, arguably more important stuff, like wiping out certain infectious diseases, assisting with dealing with poverty, famine, starvation, providing a way for nations to talk to each other on issues like disease, starvation, etc.

Alright, lets go there. Care to show some "results" from the UN? Sure the UN can throw money around like the best of them, but do the results last - do they fix anything or are they just handing out band-aids?

CsG

Handing out bandaids?

UNICEF -- What We Do

Good job, you *may* have found one, now what else?
BTW - how much of the UNICEF money actually gets to the end recipient?

CsG

Moving the goal posts again.

No, that isn't moving the goalposts. You provided one instance where the UN *may* be doing some good. It's no wonder you seem to be so clueless like so many here when we point out your moving goalposts - you don't even know what it is.

CsG

 

[cwjerome]

As far as moving goalposts, I would agree that the UN should play to its strengths... which means throwing all the political baggage overboard and doing what it does best- organizing and providing humanitarian aid through UNICEF and the World Food Program. In it's current form, the UN has no business trying to dictate policy.

 

[BBond]

The UN doesn't dictate policy. Its member nations dictate policy. Especially the permanent members of the UN Security Council. For example, the USA.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: BBond
The UN doesn't dictate policy. Its member nations dictate policy. Especially the permanent members of the UN Security Council. For example, the USA.

What a semantic joke. The UN organization (made up of member nations :roll: ) constantly tries to dictate policy to the US and any other country that it deems "wrong" in some way, whether it be domestic policy or foreign policy.

Nice evasion, the point was I believe the UN should not be political, and should stick to humanitarian missions. Nations can deal with one another just fine... as if some debating club for bureaucratic misfits and authoritarian criminals is needed to communicate with one another.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: BBond
The UN doesn't dictate policy. Its member nations dictate policy. Especially the permanent members of the UN Security Council. For example, the USA.

What a semantic joke. The UN organization (made up of member nations :roll: ) constantly tries to dictate policy to the US and any other country that it deems "wrong" in some way, whether it be domestic policy or foreign policy.

Nice evasion, the point was I believe the UN should not be political, and should stick to humanitarian missions. Nations can deal with one another just fine... as if some debating club for bureaucratic misfits and authoritarian criminals is needed to communicate with one another.

The UN doesn't dictate to the US. If you disagree with that statement please see "Iraq".

The problem is the US acts unilaterally without regard for right or wrong or UN or world opinion.

And we can see where that's gotten us. See "Iraq".

 

[cwjerome]

Both instances I said "Tries to" dictate... it's sometimes sucessful and sometimes not, usually not in regards to the USA- thankfully. The US acts unilaterally when it has to, which is often a good thing. Making it seem like 'unilateral' is a bad word means nothing to me. And acting like the US doesn't listen or has no regard to the world, the UN, or world opinion is typical crap spewed by America-haters for 50 years. The reality is we DO listen and have regard... we just don't always AGREE. There's a world of difference there ace.