The Persian Complex

Analog

Lifer
Jan 7, 2002
12,755
3
0
The Persian Complex

By ABBAS AMANAT, 25 May 2006 (source: New York Times)

IT is easy to label Iran's quest for nuclear energy a dangerous adventure with grave regional and international repercussions. It is also comforting to heap scorn on President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for his earlier denial of the Holocaust and his odious call for the obliteration of the state of Israel. The rambling intransigence expressed in his recent letter to President Bush offers ample insight into this twisted mindset. Yet there is something deeper in Iran's story than the extremist utterances of a messianic president and the calculated maneuvering of the hard-line clerical leadership that stands behind him.

We tend to forget that Iran's insistence on its sovereign right to develop nuclear power is in effect a national pursuit for empowerment, a pursuit informed by at least two centuries of military aggression, domestic meddling, skullduggery and, not least, technological denial by the West. Every schoolchild in Iran knows about the C.I.A.-sponsored 1953 coup that toppled Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh. Even an Iranian with little interest in his or her past is conscious of how Iran throughout the 19th and 20th centuries served as a playground for the Great Game.

Iranians also know that, hard as it may be for latter-day Americans and Europeans to believe, from the 1870's to the 1920's Russia and Britain deprived Iran of even basic technology like the railroad, which was then a key to economic development. At various times, both powers jealously opposed a trans-Iranian railroad because they thought it would threaten their ever-expanding imperial frontiers. When it was finally built, the British, Russian (and American) occupying forces during the Second World War made full use of it (free of charge), calling Iran a "bridge of victory" over Nazi Germany. They did so, of course, after Winston Churchill forced the man who built the railroad, Reza Shah Pahlavi, to abdicate and unceremoniously kicked him out of the country.

Not long after, a similar Western denial of Iran's economic sovereignty resulted in a dramatic showdown that had fatal consequences for the country's fragile democracy and left lasting scars on its national consciousness. The oil nationalization movement of 1951 to 1953 under Mossadegh was opposed by Britain, and eventually by its partner in profit, the United States, with the same self-righteousness that today colors their views of the Iranian yearning for nuclear energy.

Mossadegh was tried and sent into internal exile and Mohammed Reza Shah was reinstalled largely to safeguard American geopolitical interests and with little regard for the wishes of the Iranian people. A quarter-century later, Americans were "taken by surprise" when an Islamic revolution toppled the shah and transformed a country that seemed so friendly to the United States. But if Americans suffered from historical amnesia, for many Iranians, among them Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the thread of memory led clearly from the Great Game to the Great Satan.

For a country like the United States that is built on paradigms of progress and pragmatism, grasping the mythical and psychological dimensions of defeat and deprivation at the hands of foreigners is difficult. Yet the Iranian collective memory is infused with such themes. Since the early 18th century, Iran has been involved in four devastating civil wars. America's own highly traumatic Civil War was, notwithstanding Britain's sympathy for the South, a largely domestic affair. In the civil wars that Iran endured, however, the Turks, Afghans, Russians and British played major parts. And before the arrival of Western powers, Iranians held bitter memories of the Ottomans, the Mongols and the Arabs.

These intrusions punctuated the Iranians' modern historical narrative with conspiratorial fears and have helped to nurture a cult of the fallen hero, from the 1910's guerrilla leader Mirza Kuchak Khan to Amir Kabir, a 19th-century reformist prime minister, and later Mossadegh. Such painful collective memories have made Iran's pursuit of nuclear energy a national symbol of defiance that has transcended the motives of the current Islamic regime.

If the United States resorts to sanctions, or worse, to some military response, the outcome would be not only disastrous but, in the long run, transient. Just as the West did with Iran's railroad and oil industry, it can for a time deny Iran nuclear technology, but it cannot wipe out Iranians' haunting memories. And no doubt the Islamic regime will amply exploit these collective memories to advance its nuclear program even as it stifles voices of domestic dissent. Even more than before, Iranians will blame outside powers for their misfortunes and choose not to focus on their own troubled road to modernity.

If that course continues, Iran will most likely succeed, for ill or for good, in finding its own nuclear holy grail. Legend has it that the Persian king Hushang, an equivalent of Prometheus, introduced fire to the Iranians. But unlike his Greek mythological counterpart, who stole it from gods, he accidentally discovered it while fighting with a dragon.

Abbas Amanat is a professor of history at Yale and author of the forthcoming "In Search of Modern Iran."
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Sounds like a diatribe written by a foreign professor. I wonder if he is an Iranian Patriot. If he lived in Iran he might think differently.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
This guy is interesting and has a obvious conflict of interest in writing anything about Iran. He has been writing about Iran since the 1930's. I wonder when the last time he actually lived in Iran?

Abbas Amanat received his B.A. from Tehran University in 1971 and D.Phil. from Oxford University in 1981. His principal publications include Pivot of the Universe: Nasir al-Din Shah and the Iranian Monarchy, 1831-1896 (1997) and Resurrection and Renewal: the Making of the Babi Movement in Iran, 1844-1850 (1989). He is the editor of Cities and Trade: Consul Abbott on the Economy and Society of Iran (1983), Crowning Anguish: Memoirs of a Persian Princess from the Harem to Modernity (1995) and coeditor of Imagining the End: Visions of Apocalypse from Ancient Middle East to Modern America (2002). He also edited The United States and the Middle East: Diplomatic and Economic Relations in Historical Perspective (2000) and co-edited The United States and the Middle East: Cultural Encounters (2002) and Apocalypse and Violence (2004).

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
I don't quite understand why we're all so surprised that Iran is intent on giving us the finger when it comes to nuclear technology. I seriously doubt WE'D be all that happy with another country telling us what we can and can't do. I think Americans forget that sometimes, because we are on top of the world at the moment. We alone decide what we're going to do, and we'll talk about it with others if we feel like it, but if we don't, tough ****** and all that. I think we sometimes forget how things look on the other end of the stick, and how people react when we tell them what they may and may not do.

I'm not defending Iran's actions, I'm just saying I'm surprised nobody seems to understand where their motivation is coming from.
 

da loser

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,037
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0
i'll paraphrase the article

don't call the stupid kid stupid, it hurts they're feelings. ;)

 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,999
307
126
Its not "they're feelings", its "their feelings". Who is the stupid kid now?
 

Passions

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2000
6,855
3
0
That's really cute.

They suffer from an inferority complex, so it's okay to build WMDs, threaten to wipe off Israel, and send fighters to Iraq.



Fuel up the B1's please.


 

FrancesBeansRevenge

Platinum Member
Jun 6, 2001
2,181
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Or, they're quite aware of history and know they cannot trust the United States, or Britain for that matter, to respect their sovereignty.
So they are seeking the ONE safegaurd in all the world that guarantees sovereignty: the nuke.

I am actually surprised the mistrust and hatred of the US isn't even stronger in Iran.

Let's try to see things from another's point of view:

Imagine, as an American:
In the 1950s China overthrows our democratically elected government and installs a leader friendly to them
In the late 70s - early 80s, after having had the Chinese friendly regime ousted from our country, China sponsors Mexico with finances, arms, logistics, and intelligence in a decade long war against us which costs hundreds of thousands of American lives.
In the late 80s, while we're still at war with a China sponsored Mexico, an American civilian airliner with 250 people on board is 'accidentally' shot down by a Chinese warship sitting off the American coast.

Would you want America's leaders to take whatever steps necessary to protect our nation from further aggression by China?


Now lets replace this scenario with the real players:

Imagine, as an Iranian:
In the 1950s the US overthrows our democratically elected government and installs a leader friendly to them
In the late 70s - early 80s, after having had the American friendly regime ousted from our country, the US sponsors Iraq with finances, arms, logistics, and intelligence in a decade long war against us which costs hundreds of thousands of Iranian lives.
In the late 80s, while we're still at war with a US sponsored Iraq, an Iranian civilian airliner with 250 people on board is 'accidentally' shot down by a US warship sitting off the Iranian coast.

Would you want Iran's leaders to take whatever steps necessary to protect our nation from further aggression by the US?


Can you at least see their concerns? Would you, in thier position, trust the US?
 

dexvx

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2000
3,899
0
0
Originally posted by: Passions
That's really cute.

They suffer from an inferority complex, so it's okay to build WMDs, threaten to wipe off Israel, and send fighters to Iraq.

Fuel up the B1's please.

Originally posted by: da loser
i'll paraphrase the article

don't call the stupid kid stupid, it hurts they're feelings. ;)


I seriously think you need to Learn to Read.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
The truth is the US is guilty of far greater heinous acts against the Iranian people than Iran has ever done to us.
In fact we RULED their country by putting our guy the Shah on the throne and then helped him run Saddam style torture dens.
If there was EVER a country in this world that had a legitimate beef and the reason to fear and hate the US it is Iran.
 

da loser

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,037
0
0
Originally posted by: MadRat
Its not "they're feelings", its "their feelings". Who is the stupid kid now?

you called me stupid, well i'll show you I'm going to prove you wrong. i'm going to develop nuclear technology to show my high levels of smartness...
 

da loser

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,037
0
0
Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
Can you at least see their concerns? Would you, in thier position, trust the US?

Would you have preferred the US try to build a democracy in Iran instead of the Shah. that seems to have gone really well in Vietnam and Iraq...

sometimes you play with the cards you're dealt. Iranians need to stop blaming others for their problems.

it's clear the acts of the US were not the best. however, you have to show these in light of the Cold War. the entire ME was just a pawn. it sucks for those people, but those leaders were not the best case scenario for the US either. it's damned if you do and damned if you don't for the US. they chose stability and survival against the USSR vs. trying to improve the situation of the ME like the current iraq scenario. However, one must look at the success of transition of the west in Asia and Eastern Europe, to see it's not the west's fault for lack of success in the ME. those societies are just ass backwards and have only themselves to blame.


it's really a predicament for the west having won the cold war, they must now deal with the problems of the world. to the victor go the spoils. it would be so much easier for the USSR. just kill em all or put them in concentration camps.
 

Passions

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2000
6,855
3
0
Originally posted by: dexvx
Originally posted by: Passions
That's really cute.

They suffer from an inferority complex, so it's okay to build WMDs, threaten to wipe off Israel, and send fighters to Iraq.

Fuel up the B1's please.

Originally posted by: da loser
i'll paraphrase the article

don't call the stupid kid stupid, it hurts they're feelings. ;)


I seriously think you need to Learn to Read.


I, seriously, think you need to learn how to read.


HIT THE BOOKS, KID!




 

fornax

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
6,866
0
76
Originally posted by: piasabird
Sounds like a diatribe written by a foreign professor. I wonder if he is an Iranian Patriot. If he lived in Iran he might think differently.

We all wait your domestic diatribe. Judging from most of your posts, you are not qualified to be that professor's domestic servant.
 

dexvx

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2000
3,899
0
0
Originally posted by: Passions
Originally posted by: dexvx
Originally posted by: Passions
That's really cute.

They suffer from an inferority complex, so it's okay to build WMDs, threaten to wipe off Israel, and send fighters to Iraq.

Fuel up the B1's please.

Originally posted by: da loser
i'll paraphrase the article

don't call the stupid kid stupid, it hurts they're feelings. ;)


I seriously think you need to Learn to Read.


I, seriously, think you need to learn how to read.


HIT THE BOOKS, KID!

1) I mentioned reading comprehension, not writing comprehension.

2) I seriously think ___ is correct grammar. Seriously is an adverb modifying the action verb think; you do not need commas seperating an adverb that directly modifies an action verb. Basic English sentence structure is: Noun Adverb Verb Adjective Direct-Object.

Example: I hardly believe some people are this stupid.
Its not: I, hardly, believe some people are this stupid.

So, L2Read and L2Write.
 

novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,711
0
0
Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
Or, they're quite aware of history and know they cannot trust the United States, or Britain for that matter, to respect their sovereignty.
So they are seeking the ONE safegaurd in all the world that guarantees sovereignty: the nuke.

I am actually surprised the mistrust and hatred of the US isn't even stronger in Iran.

Let's try to see things from another's point of view:

Imagine, as an American:
In the 1950s China overthrows our democratically elected government and installs a leader friendly to them
In the late 70s - early 80s, after having had the Chinese friendly regime ousted from our country, China sponsors Mexico with finances, arms, logistics, and intelligence in a decade long war against us which costs hundreds of thousands of American lives.
In the late 80s, while we're still at war with a China sponsored Mexico, an American civilian airliner with 250 people on board is 'accidentally' shot down by a Chinese warship sitting off the American coast.

Would you want America's leaders to take whatever steps necessary to protect our nation from further aggression by China?


Now lets replace this scenario with the real players:

Imagine, as an Iranian:
In the 1950s the US overthrows our democratically elected government and installs a leader friendly to them
In the late 70s - early 80s, after having had the American friendly regime ousted from our country, the US sponsors Iraq with finances, arms, logistics, and intelligence in a decade long war against us which costs hundreds of thousands of Iranian lives.
In the late 80s, while we're still at war with a US sponsored Iraq, an Iranian civilian airliner with 250 people on board is 'accidentally' shot down by a US warship sitting off the Iranian coast.

Would you want Iran's leaders to take whatever steps necessary to protect our nation from further aggression by the US?


Can you at least see their concerns? Would you, in thier position, trust the US?


Exactly, some of the chickenhawks screaming war need to travel a bit more and get insight into other people's cultures and see their viewpoint, unless you educate yourself you're always going to be at war.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,999
307
126
Originally posted by: da loser
Originally posted by: MadRat
Its not "they're feelings", its "their feelings". Who is the stupid kid now?

you called me stupid, well i'll show you I'm going to prove you wrong. i'm going to develop nuclear technology to show my high levels of smartness...

Any college kid with the right aluminum cylinders and ten pounds of plutonium could do that. How about develop a decent coffee cup holder on the desktop PC. Mine keeps breaking. And at $50 a clip its getting expensive replacing it.
 

da loser

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,037
0
0
Originally posted by: MadRat
Originally posted by: da loser
Originally posted by: MadRat
Its not "they're feelings", its "their feelings". Who is the stupid kid now?

you called me stupid, well i'll show you I'm going to prove you wrong. i'm going to develop nuclear technology to show my high levels of smartness...

Any college kid with the right aluminum cylinders and ten pounds of plutonium could do that. How about develop a decent coffee cup holder on the desktop PC. Mine keeps breaking. And at $50 a clip its getting expensive replacing it.

you insulted me again. good thing i finished my nuclear bomb. i put on my wizard hat and blow you up.

You lose, thank you for playing diplomacy with iran.