The people did NOT vote for Trump

[flexy]

220,000 more people voted for Hillary. The Reps (respective Trump) only won because of the Electoral College.
(Second time in a row where the Reps could only win because of the EC)

80,7% of the population in the US is urban, and 19,3% is rural.

The EC of course exists to make the rural people who are as it happens overwhelmingly conservative equal to the urban people. Proponents of the EC say this is fair. But what is fair when 19% of people "override" the opinion of the majority? Why should not the majority of people have a say in the outcome of an election? Wouldn't it be logical that the outcome would reflect what the majority of people think? (Why should it matter WHERE people live?)

Proponents also say that the EC is necessary since otherwise the popular vote would screw up the vote, saying things like "otherwise California would decide the election for an entire nation" etc.

BS.

110 Million votes have been cast. If the popular vote would seriously "screw" election results the difference would be MUCH bigger, but not, like in a very close/tight election like this either almost perfectly 50:50 or only differ by small numbers like 220,000 votes. I am counter-arguing that the EC system MUCH MORE screws the election result than a popular vote based system.. its existence very obviously favors conservatives.

Maybe you interpret this as trolling, I don't care. FACT is, less people voted for Trump than for Hillary and the election therefore does not reflect the view of the majority of people.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ectoral-college-disaster-2012-tweet/93575326/

 

[Kazukian]

220,000 more people voted for Hillary. The Reps (respective Trump) only won because of the Electoral College.
(Second time in a row where the Reps could only win because of the EC)

80,7% of the population in the US is urban, and 19,3% is rural.

The EC of course exists to make the rural people who are as it happens overwhelmingly conservative equal to the urban people. Proponents of the EC say this is fair. But what is fair when 19% of people "override" the opinion of the majority? Why should not the majority of people have a say in the outcome of an election? Wouldn't it be logical that the outcome would reflect what the majority of people think? (Why should it matter WHERE people live?)

Proponents also say that the EC is necessary since otherwise the popular vote would screw up the vote, saying things like "otherwise California would decide the election for an entire nation" etc.

BS.

110 Million votes have been cast. If the popular vote would seriously "screw" election results the difference would be MUCH bigger, but not, like in a very close/tight election like this either almost perfectly 50:50 or only differ by a mere 220,000 votes. I am counter-arguing that the EC system MUCH MORE screws the election result than a popular vote based system.. its existence very obviously favors conservatives.

Maybe you interpret this as trolling, I don't care.FACT is, less people voted for Trump than for Hillary.

And we've had centuries to eliminate the EC.

Next.

 

[flexy]

Is age a criterium that the system is good?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

People did vote for Trump for various reasons. Everyone knew the rules of the election going in. Hillary and Trump knew what was required to win so there was nothing hidden or surprising in the process.

I'd like to see one person's vote count as much as the next. Tell me, if I have a candidate and they lose, how am I represented? By "better luck next time"?

Direct election and proportional representation please, but hand wringing by the losing side doesn't much matter. If the situation had been reversed the same would be said but swap the partisans around. This would be approved by Hillarites, so no one is special.

System needs changes. Use this election as a starting point.

 

[BAMAVOO]

The system is fine. You only crying because your team lost. Same would happen if it was the other way.

 

[Sunburn74]

The system is not a good one but fixing the EC doesn't address the real issues that led to a trump win. It's crying over spilt milk. That being said I think the sheer mystical place the US Constitution has in the hearts and minds of men is proving to be more harmful than beneficial given the extreme difficulty required with making minor changes to issues clearly intended for a different time and degree of technological development.

 

[justoh]

And more would have voted for clinton were it not for the ec, since it's a rational decision (to a point) to not vote in a state guaranteed to be blue anyway. This phenomenon doesn't exist for republicans in presumptive red states, since they vote as a religious duty, sometimes literally, so clinton would have a lot more of the popular vote than she has now were it not for the college. Probably.

 

[fskimospy]

The system is fine. You only crying because your team lost. Same would happen if it was the other way.

I'm still waiting for a single good argument in favor of the electoral college. I've thought it should be abolished a long time before this election.

Now that this has happened though I imagine Republicans will fight tooth and nail to keep it. Why wouldn't they? They've won two out of the last five presidential elections where they lost the actual vote.

 

[flexy]

No, I am not crying. Believe me, I (try to) see this from both sides. Just stating facts. The system shouldn't "favor" anyone (even if it's not "the system's fault" of course that rural people are normally conservative). The matter with "I don't need to vote since it's already decided" not even taken into account. EVERY vote should count. I am aware that this EC issue is a can of worms, but to me this is a flawed system.

 

[Sunburn74]

I'm still waiting for a single good argument in favor of the electoral college. I've thought it should be abolished a long time before this election.

Now that this has happened though I imagine Republicans will fight tooth and nail to keep it. Why wouldn't they? They've won two out of the last five presidential elections where they lost the actual vote.

The EC is unfair it that it undermines the value of certain votes and overvalues other. Honestly the best system is proportional distribution of electoral votes across the board.

That being said is there anything stopping the DNC or billionaires who support them from just paying say 50,000 to relocate to vital states and vote during election years? offer 50k to rent an apartment for a few months or something ? Is that illegal?

 

[Blue_Max]

The system is fine. You only crying because your team lost. Same would happen if it was the other way.

True, but not to this degree. You've got superlefties just broken and wailing inconsolably, like their prophet had just been crucified or something. (An appropriate comparison since progressivism has become a religious cult full of zealots willing to force their religion onto others (especially those who won't fight back, children especially.)

 

[MrSquished]

The system is fine. You only crying because your team lost. Same would happen if it was the other way.

he stated a simple fact, the majority of the people voted for the nasty woman. the popular vote not jiving with the electoral vote has only happened 5 times ever. And only twice since the late 1800's. Gore in 2000, Hillary in 2016. So two times in 16 years. It's enough to question the system a little bit.

 

[Jaskalas]

Rounded,
2012: 66 million votes for Pres Obama.
2016: 60 million votes for Hillary Clinton.

Not exactly a mandate that the voters got cheated when they couldn't even come out and vote party ticket again.
And victory would be by a difference of 206,458... or just one third of one percentage point.

 

[paperfist]

All the votes aren't even counted yet, are they?

 

[Zaap]

I think we need ANOTHER thread on this sour grapes bullshit.

 

[Jaskalas]

All the votes aren't even counted yet, are they?

Right, but I don't think AZ and AK have enough between them to flip the 206k lead. That would be quite the low odds.

 

[paperfist]

Right, but I don't think AZ and AK have enough between them to flip the 206k lead. That would be quite the low odds.

Mail in has been counted already?

As much as I don't like the EC, now isn't the time to complain about it. 4 years ago, 8, 12, 22, etc would have been.

 

[1prophet]

Obama had no problem with it, what happened to the approximate 10,000,000 voters he had in 2008 as compared to Clinton 2016 , did they fall asleep or something?

perhaps you should be looking at your candidate and not the system.



2004 ←
November 4, 2008 → 2012
All 538 electoral votes of the Electoral College
270 electoral votes needed to win
Turnout 58.2%[1]

1.5%

Nominee Barack Obama John McCain
Party Democratic Republican
Home state Illinois Arizona
Running mate Joe Biden Sarah Palin
Electoral vote 365 173
States carried 28 + DC + NE-02 22
Popular vote 69,498,516 59,948,323
Percentage 52.9% 45.7%

 

[Starbuck1975]

And more would have voted for clinton were it not for the ec, since it's a rational decision (to a point) to not vote in a state guaranteed to be blue anyway. This phenomenon doesn't exist for republicans in presumptive red states, since they vote as a religious duty, sometimes literally, so clinton would have a lot more of the popular vote than she has now were it not for the college. Probably.

Does the same not apply to red voters in blue states? I imagine there were a lot of Trump suppporters in upstate NY and the Inland Empire of SoCal who made a similar choice.

 

[Fern]

OP are you European?

Fern

 

[buckshot24]

I'm still waiting for a single good argument in favor of the electoral college. I've thought it should be abolished a long time before this election.

Now that this has happened though I imagine Republicans will fight tooth and nail to keep it. Why wouldn't they? They've won two out of the last five presidential elections where they lost the actual vote.

The strategies have something to do with how this turns out. You think Trump spends any time up in New Hampshire if there isn't an EC system? Popular vote isn't the agreed upon rules so them losing it means nothing. Trump wasn't trying to rack up nationwide popular votes.

 

[buckshot24]

How do you handle recounts in a national vote?

 

[fskimospy]

How do you handle recounts anywhere?

 

[MrSquished]

How do you handle recounts in a national vote?

hanging chad experts and a bunch of calculators

 

[flexy]

OP are you European?

Fern

Sort of, with a short stunt in the US. (Have lived there for a while, and wife is US American and US inlaws).