The ONE invention/discovery that would completely change the world...

[Looney]

Originally posted by: flexy
soem nice examples:

) The telephone...once invented...it will bring PEACE on eart because all of a sudden everyone can communicate with everyone in an instant.

That's what they actually realy believed these days the telephone was introduced

And you doubt that the telephone didn't bring MORE peace to the world? Being able to communicate with world leaders instantly when there's trouble, rather than being in the dark and having your imagination run wild? I've never heard people claim that it would bring complete world peace, but you don't think it's made the world better?

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: flexy
i think even with such a device it wouldn't change a lot...i am surprised that you're that blueeyed/naive and believe in world peace etc...etc...if there only would be a 100% lie detector...

Why can't anybody give anything more than one line statements to this?

Like most people dont already know that people in power/politicians etc. usually lie..everyone knows that...

Just because its' the norm doesn't mean it has to be that way. At one time the world was completely ruled by monarchs and dictators, who did absolutely nothing for anybody but themselves. People thought it was the natural order for the world that some people were born into this divine role, and that it couldn't be changed. But the world has changed. It's no longer so much base on birth, but how what you've accomplished. Most of us cant' even imagine a world otherwise.

There's much more behind that which involves human psychology, too..its much mroe complex.

Well care to explain?

Eg...former communism....everyone KNEW that their government was/is lying...but it worked as long as the majority of people is being passive and just accepts that the lies are the way it's supposed to be etc....

Um, it didn't work.
Btw...did you believe we actually will find WMD in Iraq ? Etc...etc...etc.....[/quote]

 

[Bootprint]

As to the lie detector, what about the people who really believe in what they are saying?

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Bootprint
As to the lie detector, what about the people who really believe in what they are saying?

Then it would detect it as the truth. It's not detecting universal truths or wrongs, it's just detecting what people are saying, what their intention are. If it's truthful or deceitful.

 

[SackOfAllTrades]

I really don't believe a lie detector would have such drastic effects simply because the motive of hate is too strong. Lie detectors probably would not have stopped Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Joseph Stalin (would have made his job easier, but the job would still exist), Adolf Hitler, Genghis and Kublai Khan.

Do you think a lie detector would have stopped the Crusades?

Muslims: Are you going to invade the Holy Land?
Christian Knight(with thousands of soldiers standing behind him): Yes.
Muslims: No! Don't!
Christian Knight: Oh well since you said no, we'll just leave...spare any whores?

There would never be another invasion of a country, at least one that the world wouldn't know about it ahead of time, because they would never be able to hide it.

You'll need a time machine and a lie detector to know who to ask and when to ask it. Do you know which land is going to be invaded next? If you had a lie detector would be able to stop it?

Politicians would entirely have to be honest, because all fibs would be detected.

How would your lie detector become totally knowledgable of a politicians dealings if you don't know what questions to ask?

Lie D.: Senator, are you embezzeling money out of commitee budget?
Senator: No.
Lie D.: He's telling the truth.
Senator thinks to himself: I'm glad he didn't ask about the secret approval I gave to 3 commandos to assassinate a leader of a gun smuggling ring on the border of China and Vietnam.

Lie D.: Congressman, did you authorize the facilitation of a drug deal in order to get information out of an informant for the DEA?
Congressman: Nope
Lie D.: clear
Congressman thinks: I just sleep with my secretary and her underage daughter.

Lie D.: Mr. President, are you hiding something?
President: No.
Lie D.: You are lying.
President: Yes I am, and good luck finding out what I am hiding.
President thinks to himself: In college I exprimented with lots of men.

Even such moral issues as cheating on your spouses would almost be eliminated.

If you think you need to ask your spouse about infedility, the relationship is just about over. If she says yes, it's over. If she says no, and she had any self respect, she'd end it with you or just start cheating on you cuz she knows you're suspecting her anyway.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: SackOfAllTrades
I really don't believe a lie detector would have such drastic effects simply because the motive of hate is too strong. Lie detectors probably would not have stopped Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Joseph Stalin (would have made his job easier, but the job would still exist), Adolf Hitler, Genghis and Kublai Khan.

Do you think a lie detector would have stopped the Crusades?

Muslims: Are you going to invade the Holy Land?
Christian Knight(with thousands of soldiers standing behind him): Yes.
Muslims: No! Don't!
Christian Knight: Oh well since you said no, we'll just leave...spare any whores?

Well if you're going to build an argument with weak points, then it's going to be easy to collapse it. Strawman fallacy if you have any clue on critical thinking. And that's the past (not to mention completely shallow). I'm not too familiar with all your other history, but Joseph Stalin wouldn't have risen to power. He was able to rally the people because he was able to convince them that he was for them, that what he did, was for the better of the people. With the Truth device, they would know that that was a lie, that he wasn't for them at all, but for himself. And Hitler, same thing... the world would have known ahead of time that what he was spewing was for war.

You'll need a time machine and a lie detector to know who to ask and when to ask it. Do you know which land is going to be invaded next? If you had a lie detector would be able to stop it?

You wouldn't need to ask the question explicitly, but you definitely could. If they were amassing arms, and you were selling it to them, you could ask them what the uses were for. You could ask them when their military was conducting more exercises toward a certain border, what they were doing. The Truth device wouldn't stop them... like i said, the device is just a device, it has no inherent power or evil, just how it's used. We live in a world where most of the world are united against tyrants and invaders, and if we know for a fact one nation was going to invade another, what do you think would happen? If we knew that China was going to invade Taiwan or India next year, what do you think the world would do?

How would your lie detector become totally knowledgable of a politicians dealings if you don't know what questions to ask?

I didn't say 'totally knowledgeable'. YOU said that. All i said was we would know whether they were telling the truth or lying. Promises they make during election periods, we would know what they would doing. And no, we wouldn't be able to stop all embezzelling... but if there were any hint of it happening, a committe could be formed and instantly investigate it. And as for your strawman dialogue in this, you're assuming the commitee are as stupid as you and would only ask a single question, and let it go at that. I guess you've never watched these committees in action before?

If you think you need to ask your spouse about infedility, the relationship is just about over. If she says yes, it's over. If she says no, if she had any self respect, she'd end it with you or just start cheating on you cuz she knows you're suspecting her anyway.

And you don't think even without the machine today, people aren't cheating, people aren't accusing one another of cheating? Of course it won't save all marriages, i never said that. I just said cheating and getting away with it would be nearly impossible. And it would be less likely to happen. What people cheat, two huge equations enter the picture.... what are the chances of it happening, and my chances of getting away with it (which is why people on business trips are much more likely to cheat). The first stays the same of course, but the second would make most people think twice.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: MelikK
I dont know if you realize but in order to teach people you need ressources and the very unforutunate fact for millions of people that starve to death each day is that there aren't enough. Look a little further then your own doorstep to see how people in poorer countires live. I m not saying that it would eliminate all problems but it would certainly minimize most of them as a happy person that has everything he every dreamed of would be hard to even get upset. On the other hand ask that starving boy what he would do to you driving your SUV around the corner to fill your already overweight belly. (not you per se)

My point was that a lot of desires come out of inequality. As another person has more than you, so you want more as well and so on....
What I was trying to say is that with an unlimited and cheap energy source there would be no more material possession, as every one could have everything. For example, diamonds are very rare and therefore highly valuable. Currenly you can produce diamonds synthetically but it requries way too much energy. So with this cheap ressource every woman on earth could have a diamond from here to tansania. I doubt that diamonds would even be popular by then but I think the point is clear. StarTrek era is a very good example. There, people do not live to accumulate wealth but to strive for other goals like science, arts, etc...

You called me a communist but let me ask you this, hypothetically if every one had as much as Bill Gates do still think the conecpt of communisim would be as bad. With capitalism there will always be a small amount of rich people that feed of the tons of poor. Dont get me wrong in our current world especially here in the states pretty much everyone including myself thinks that way, but for our perfect world example I dont think it applys.

I think the clearest point is that you live in a fantasy world. The only way your idea would work would be if the equal distribution of economic wealth was enforced at all times. And that would be completely impossible because of (1) human nature and (2) resources are finite, i.e. diamonds actually are rare.
It sounds nice, but why don't we discuss a politcal system designed for the real world, eh? Like learning to work for and earn what you receive and not coveting your fellow person's wealth and seeking to steal it?

Originally posted by: Moralpanic
He stated ECONOMIC equality, not universal equality. Nobody wants to be a drone that's similiar to everybody else. Human endeavors succeed because we have an innate drive to better ourselves and rise above our fellow man. With economic equality, then we can focus on other stuff, like appearances or intellectual. What's so wrong with people striving to better themselves physically and mentally?

Where did I say there was anything wrong with striving to be better? Keep dreaming, eh? You sound like some young spoiled kid who wants all the rewards with the risks -- you'll rise above your fellow man as soon as you know you can't fall below him and starve right?

And as for your lie detector, put the damn pipe down and come back to the real world, ok? That would simply be corrupted into an instrument of power for a few to be used to enslave the poor. Other posters in this thread have already explained how. And the world is not ready for perfect honesty anyway. Think differently? Go to your best friends right now and tell them what you REALLY think of their children. Or, better yet, what you really think of how they raise their children.

 

[Yax]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
I think you are being naiive if you feel a perfect lie detector will bring about world peace. Such an idealistic concept, however noble, is doomed to failure when confronted with the perverse reality of human nature.

The goal of a mad scientist is to destroy everyone in the world, because the only way to bring about world peace is to kill everyone in it.

 

[Looney]

Where did I say there was anything wrong with striving to be better? Keep dreaming, eh? You sound like some young spoiled kid who wants all the rewards with the risks -- you'll rise above your fellow man as soon as you know you can't fall below him and starve right?

LOL spoiled kid. LOL You can tell when somebody is unable to argue... they attempt to use age as a form of authority. Of course on the internet, anybody can be any age.

And as for your lie detector, put the damn pipe down and come back to the real world, ok? That would simply be corrupted into an instrument of power for a few to be used to enslave the poor. Other posters in this thread have already explained how. And the world is not ready for perfect honesty anyway. Think differently? Go to your best friends right now and tell them what you REALLY think of their children. Or, better yet, what you really think of how they raise their children.

It is a pipe dream... but nobody has answered WHY it wouldn't work. All i get are one liners. Quote me what these arguments are if you're unable to come up with any yourself.

As for telling my best friends the truth. Maybe it's just me, but i already do. I have no lies. If there's something they don't want to hear, they won't ask me of it... but if they do, they can at least trust that i won't lie to them. I won't go out of my way to degrade my friends though.

 

[AdamDuritz99]

I'm just aiming for a trashbag that doesn't rip.

peace
sean

 

[Vic]

Meh... I didn't say you were a spoiled kid, I said you sound like one. There's a difference there you might want to consider. It seems I said why too... something to do with your "the world will succeed as soon as it can't fail" logic.

As for the WHY part, the only thing keeping you from seeing that seems to be your own denial. But hey, maybe someday you'll finally succeed in forcing this evil world into your personal image and belief system. Of course, then you'd be a Hitler or Stalin, but hey, they always thought they were doing the right thing... those millions of people just had to be killed because they stood in the way of the progress of humankind!

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Vic
Meh... I didn't say you were a spoiled kid, I said you sound like one. There's a difference there you might want to consider. It seems I said why too... something to do with your "the world will succeed as soon as it can't fail" logic.

As for the WHY part, the only thing keeping you from seeing that seems to be your own denial. But hey, maybe someday you'll finally succeed in forcing this evil world into your personal image and belief system. Of course, then you'd be a Hitler or Stalin, but hey, they always thought they were doing the right thing... those millions of people just had to be killed because they stood in the way of the progress of humankind!

And yet, all those words didn't answer a single thing.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic
And yet, all those words didn't answer a single thing.

Woohoo! World Peace at the cost of humanity, privacy, freedom, and liberty. World Peace for the slaves! And the idiot who came up with the idea couldn't even see it because those things don't mean sh!t all to him.

 

[Qacer]

The Happiness machine. It makes you happy all the time.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Moralpanic
And yet, all those words didn't answer a single thing.

Woohoo! World Peace at the cost of humanity, privacy, freedom, and liberty. World Peace for the slaves! And the idiot who came up with the idea couldn't even see it because those things don't mean sh!t all to him.

Again, simply one line statements. HOW would it cost humanity, freedom and liberty? Privacy i can see, but like i said, it's not the tool itself that would cause it, it's how it was implemented. We have the power today to have a 1984, but we don't, why? Because of advocacy groups that see what it can do, and fight against it. The same thing would happen with this device. The government certainly couldn't implement this into the system hidden... we have the same access to it as they do. If they attempt to do anything for their own agenda, and it conflicted with ours, we would know about it, since we have the technology to see the truth of it.

Really, read your last couple of posts, and see who's the one who has posted like a child.