The Official Xbox One Thread

[smackababy]

i guess since i don't game on pc at all i just don't see what the HHUUUGGGEEEE deal about being able to store games on the hdd and not have to use discs is. it literally takes about 10 seconds to swap a disc. sure, the hdd is more convenient, but is there more to it than just saving 10 seconds here or there?

Imagine if every time you wanted to open a different program on your PC, you had to swap the discs. That would be completely moronic. Yes, no disc swapping is a convenience. One people are willing to give up for DRM.

 

[ImpulsE69]

There's no way the One will allow you to install games and play without the disc. This is what irks me about people screaming the Xbox One had DRM and now has none and that the PS3/4/360 also have none. If I install a game to my 360's hard drive in its entirety it will still require me to put the disc in to ensure I still own it. This is DRM. Checking via an online check is no more DRM than checking the disc. Both are DRM. One is checking the disc for a license, the other is checking my account online. I have no problem with people taking the stance that ALL DRM is bad, fine. I'm a Linux using hippy, I can see where you're coming from. But it's absolute bullshit telling me that checking an online keystore is evil phoning home/treating gamers like criminals DRM and yet doing the exact same check locally is somehow perfectly ok. By asking for the disc when all the files are present on the drive is effectively say, 'I don't trust you still own this game, show me the disc you dirty little criminal.'

Then you completely missed the point of why people were up in arms.

They were up in arms over the mandatory 24 hour check which for (a large majority) of people IS an issue. It's an issue because it dictates when and how you can use your console. People do not like to be dictated to for something they are paying what is not a small amount of money for. This is a game console, not a streaming box, not a router, not a cell phone, not a PC. What is funny is the small "only me" attitude of so many people regarding this issue. It really shows how bad society is. I for one am very happy people spoke out because this was a big loss for consumers if it had happened. One could say this is the trade off for an all in one unit vs, making something is actually what it is, a game console. People wanted a game console, not another cable box that sometimes plays games.

They were up in arms because MS was trying to take the Steam route of doing away with selling and trading and renting games. The big issue people have with this is it locked them into only buying from MS and MS's pricing schemes. The negative connotation of this being that they have a track record of keeping inflated prices. Of course this remained to be seen, but anyone with a brain knows not to expect grand sales.

THE ONLY good thing out of anything MS was touting was the ability to not have disks. Guess what, you can still do that by d/l digital and you are not out ANYTHING except the disk, which you didn't want anyway. Until yesterday you could have said the family plan was a loss, however it's been shown that they weren't completely up front about how it actually worked and that it wasn't what everyone thought it was.

 

[railven]

Imagine if every time you wanted to open a different program on your PC, you had to swap the discs. That would be completely moronic. Yes, no disc swapping is a convenience. One people are willing to give up for DRM.

Sorry, but that is a flawed comparative. As a software user, I open 10+ programs within an hour.

How often do you change the game in your machine? When company is over? AFter beating it? Every 10 minutes?

 

[purbeast0]

Imagine if every time you wanted to open a different program on your PC, you had to swap the discs. That would be completely moronic. Yes, no disc swapping is a convenience. One people are willing to give up for DRM.

that is a moot point though because my pc can multitask with the programs i use on pc. i constantly have the same 3-4 programs open all the time.

also a lot of pc programs work in tandem. ie, when i'm programming and need some help, i use a browser to search for the answer or go ask some buddies on irc. then i get back to the dev env. gaming is 1 game at a time.

 

[ImpulsE69]

yea, the ability to do that is why I pay more for a pc. 😛

 

[KaOTiK]

i guess since i don't game on pc at all i just don't see what the HHUUUGGGEEEE deal about being able to store games on the hdd and not have to use discs is. it literally takes about 10 seconds to swap a disc. sure, the hdd is more convenient, but is there more to it than just saving 10 seconds here or there?

I'm primarily a PC gamer, and 100% digital with my PC games and I don't find disc swapping to be an issue on my consoles. Sure, it is nice not having to swap discs, but it isn't something that bothers me either.

 

[jrphoenix]

Why does Kinect have to be plugged in if you never plan on using it? I mean I understand them bundling it with every console but why require it to be connected?

My "guess".. so, that developers will be encouraged to code for it knowing that it will be able to be implemented in every game. kinect one... limited kinect support because only a fraction of the installed based had one or used one. Now, every developer will know it is plugged in to every system. I'm not saying developers will all use it but, it is a feature set that they can program for without have to code for the lowest denominator. Not every 360 having a HDD impacted developers on the 360... you couldn't use it because it may not be there.

 

[thecapsaicinkid]

Make that option online only. Done.

"To continue using the diskless feature, you will be required to validate ownership by checking online once every 24 hours."

When you set up diskless usage:

"To use this feature we require a persistant online connection to validate onwership. If you are okay with this, press start to continue."

During down time:
"We've noticed you don't have an online connection, please insert your original disc to validate ownership and continue playing, if you can not do this your game will save and stop functioning until you can either provide the original disc for validation or connect back to the MSFT network for validation."


This isn't brain surgery. For whatever reason the brilliant minds at MSFT can't figure this out..."oh piracy, you can hack it." Well if you're going to be hacking it any ways nothing they can do will stop you. But this is a working system for people who aren't pirates and what the options."

So what happens when I install a disc in online mode and give it to my friend who is permanently offline?

 

[ImpulsE69]

The issue isn't swapping disks. I put all my games on my original Xbox hd, and same with my PS2. It's nice, so I understand that. The issue is exactly that though, I could sell those games and still have them on my hd. That is the ONLY reason for everything else they were trying to do. There is no way for them to guarantee you aren't installing your games and selling your games w/o it constantly being connected to the internet (or a disc check). Personally a disk check is a small price to pay to be able to sell my unwanted games, trade with friends, or rent, as well as play my console anywhere anytime I please.

Those whining about the disk swapping are very short sighted.

 

[Midwayman]

I don't find this true at all. Movies/Music all have a similar short window, the big difference is while movies/music are expanding their avenues for revenues, games seem in a rush to quell them.

Its not really a question of speculation. Games have a much shorter cycle than movies and music. When I was still working for a dev they had studies and such that would show it. Heck I got to see my Royalty checks come out with the monthly sales. One of the huge challenges is you had a couple weeks to have strong start or you lost your shelf space. Unless you were a blockbuster game you'd be lucky to be in stores for more than a month. I think the whole DD thing is helping to some extent (Though I have no data to that effect.) At least now with DD you can have a game with a longer tail even if it takes awhile to get traction.

The whole other avenues for revenue is a very valid point, but there aren't really arcades anymore (the equivalent of a theatre) There isn't really anything like radio or syndication for games. There are rentals, but with the violent DRM reactions I doubt we'll see this happen in a way take makes them money until they kill the physical disc as a medium. People seem to be offended by DLC. F2P games might be the evolution of games eventually. It or an online subscription model with a free or cheap client seem to the DRM free way around the challenges of making money with the current gaming cycle.

I guess its a little different once you've seen it from the other side.

 

[smackababy]

The issue isn't swapping disks. I put all my games on my original Xbox hd, and same with my PS2. It's nice, so I understand that. The issue is exactly that though, I could sell those games and still have them on my hd. That is the ONLY reason for everything else they were trying to do. There is no way for them to guarantee you aren't installing your games and selling your games w/o it constantly being connected to the internet (or a disc check). Personally a disk check is a small price to pay to be able to sell my unwanted games, trade with friends, or rent.

And to me, the small price for not needing a disc is the ability to sell my games and trade them.

 

[KaOTiK]

And to me, the small price for not needing a disc is the ability to sell my games and trade them.

So why can't you just buy the games digitally to start with then?

 

[purbeast0]

And to me, the small price for not needing a disc is the ability to sell my games and trade them.

can you explain why it is such a huge deal still because your first attempt really doesn't compare. pc apps aren't anywhere near the same as games are, as far as ecosystem and how they are used.

and btw you can STILL buy digital copies and keep them on your hdd, without a disc...

 

[jrphoenix]

LOL @ gamestop. I went by there or called probably 10 different times to pre-order an xbox one. They always had PS4 but, no xbox one "sold out". I had $500 in credit on my rewards card with them. I pre-ordered online at gamestop but, didn't want to pay shipping. Today I walk in.. "plenty of reallocated units". I pre-ordered and cancelled my online pre-order 🙂

They were black listing xbox one before the policy change. If I were MS / Sony.. I would implement Steam type pricing ASAP. undercut the used games at gamestop... they'd be out of business within a year. j/k

 

[jhbball]

i guess since i don't game on pc at all i just don't see what the HHUUUGGGEEEE deal about being able to store games on the hdd and not have to use discs is. it literally takes about 10 seconds to swap a disc. sure, the hdd is more convenient, but is there more to it than just saving 10 seconds here or there?

I think this is the case for many console gamers. They haven't experienced steam, in all of its glory (I love it). So the over-arching design of the XB1 seemed foreign and scary. Swapping discs just feels outdated to me now. I'm also not a collector of boxes/manuals, so the transition was easier for me. But to each his own.

 

[Midwayman]

They were up in arms over the mandatory 24 hour check which for (a large majority) of people IS an issue.

Large majority? Really? 'Cause I literally know nobody who that would be an issue for. Especially people who spend a lot of time on the internet complaining about it. It was all hypothetical 'what if I lose internet, but not power from some freak storm that may or may not ever happen' or the tired 'But think of the troops!' BS. Or was that an more an issue in principal than it actually would ever inconvenience anyone?

 

[jrphoenix]

I think this is the case for many console gamers. They haven't experienced steam, in all of its glory (I love it). So the over-arching design of the XB1 seemed foreign and scary. Swapping discs just feels outdated to me now. I'm also not a collector of boxes/manuals, so the transition was easier for me. But to each his own.

I too love STEAM. I was a little saddened last night when playing the witcher 2 on my 360. I had the game installed on my HD an had to get up and switch discs for act 3 still. Oh well, one day we'll get there.

 

[purbeast0]

I think this is the case for many console gamers. They haven't experienced steam, in all of its glory (I love it). So the over-arching design of the XB1 seemed foreign and scary. Swapping discs just feels outdated to me now. I'm also not a collector of boxes/manuals, so the transition was easier for me. But to each his own.

no i mean it would be a cool feature to have, and i've seen it with my marketplace purchases on psn and xbl, but i would much rather have a physical disc that i can do with what i please rather than be tied to a digital copy. hell even for some of the $10 games i bought i wish i could sell them or get rid of em, even if it's for $2 or so lol.

 

[KaOTiK]

Large majority? Really? 'Cause I literally know nobody who that would be an issue for. Especially people who spend a lot of time on the internet complaining about it. It was all hypothetical 'what if I lose internet, but not power from some freak storm that may or may not ever happen' or the tired 'But think of the troops!' BS. Or was that an more an issue in principal than it actually would ever inconvenience anyone?

If you can't see how it is an issue, trying to explain it at this point isn't worth anyone's effort anymore.

 

[Midwayman]

So what happens when I install a disc in online mode and give it to my friend who is permanently offline?

Stuff like this is why they can't commit to a dual mode authentication right off the bat. At a minimum every game would need to check when installed. It would see if they key was in use. If someone had installed it before it could refuse to install unless the key was released from a console. Effectively making it just a variable length check in.

 

[railven]

So what happens when I install a disc in online mode and give it to my friend who is permanently offline?

If I didn't state it properly, it is implied you need to be online.

Each time you install a new game you have to be online to validate it. If you go offline you got a 24hr period before you need to revalidate through an internet connection or a physical disc.

EDIT: if you are implying your friend stays offline after the first validation check, then kudos you got two licenses off one disc. You've beat the system. 😉

 

[jhbball]

Large majority? Really? 'Cause I literally know nobody who that would be an issue for. Especially people who spend a lot of time on the internet complaining about it. It was all hypothetical 'what if I lose internet, but not power from some freak storm that may or may not ever happen' or the tired 'But think of the troops!' BS. Or was that an more an issue in principal than it actually would ever inconvenience anyone?

This. All of the statistically insignificant hypothetical situations where one may not be able to play his Xbox are absurd.

 

[Dominato3r]

Xbox VP denies that they had planned to time-limit the family sharing:
https://twitter.com/notwen/status/348092374842474497

As does cheif of staff interactive entertainment at MS:
https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/statuses/347911202057379840

 

[Midwayman]

If you can't see how it is an issue, trying to explain it at this point isn't worth anyone's effort anymore.

Oh I get that some people have a issue with it on principle, but to call it a large majority is laughable. Mountains of molehills comes to mind.

 

[railven]

Stuff like this is why they can't commit to a dual mode authentication right off the bat. At a minimum every game would need to check when installed. It would see if they key was in use. If someone had installed it before it could refuse to install unless the key was released from a console. Effectively making it just a variable length check in.

And this, people always looking for a means to get stuff for free.