The Official Xbox One Thread

[Fingolfin269]

it's not just change. it is change for the worse. there is not 1 thing out of this whole change that benefits the end user. if there is, i'd like to hear how you can spin it as a positive.

Exactly. It's definitely not a positive. At all.

I think we all know it's coming but now I'm more curious about how in the world Sony could release a console this gen without doing the same thing. Seems like this must be a publisher driven change so will impact both sides. Otherwise MS is just idiotic because if Sony is completely unlocked then everyone is going back to the Playstation.

 

[KaOTiK]

I'd like to change the focus here just a bit and ask a question regarding used games. I'm definitely not a fan of this announcement at all. But what I'm curious about is why the hate is so over the top for what MS is doing here but if you go to the PC forums it's (mostly) nothing but love for Valve and Steam.

Why is it different?

This is an easy question. Go check out Live and see their sales, especially for games on demand. Never a sale and games staying at full MSRP for months after release.

Steam, sales out the wazoo. PC gamers don't get mad about not being able to trade in their Steam games because they paid what a rental cost or less would be. When you are purchasing a new game 3 months after release for $17, you accept the trade off. Hell tons of people don't buy anything more expensive than maybe $10 tops for a game with many games being purchased at the $5 level or in bundles making an individual games cost below $2.

You show me any kind of real history of MS doing sales, let alone sales like that.

At least Sony with the PSN have weekly sales and have decent ones for a console (new Tomb Raider was like $25-$30 for a week like 3 weeks ago), they offer $5 off some day 1 digital games. Sony at least is showing they grasp the concept of deals and how to implement them. They offer their sales to non PS+ members (PS+ members simply get a larger discount), while MS has done a few sales and the few they have done they could only be purchased by Gold Live subscribers.

 

[Fingolfin269]

This is an easy question. Go check out Live and see their sales, especially for games on demand. Never a sale and games staying at full MSRP for months after release.

I love the pricing of Steam sales. Every time I see a great price on a newer game I get excited then realize it's a Steam sale. But I guess that also means if hell froze over, and MS started doing sales on par with Steam, then this change would be ok for you?

 

[purbeast0]

This is an easy question. Go check out Live and see their sales, especially for games on demand. Never a sale and games staying at full MSRP for months after release.

Steam, sales out the wazoo. PC gamers don't get mad about not being able to trade in their Steam games because they paid what a rental cost or less would be. When you are purchasing a new game 3 months after release for $17, you accept the trade off. Hell tons of people don't buy anything more expensive than maybe $10 tops for a game with many games being purchased at the $5 level or in bundles making an individual games cost below $2.

You show me any kind of real history of MS doing sales, let alone sales like that.

At least Sony with the PSN have weekly sales and have decent ones for a console (new Tomb Raider was like $25-$30 for a week like 3 weeks ago), they offer $5 off some day 1 digital games. Sony at least is showing they grasp the concept of deals and how to implement them. They offer their sales to non PS+ members (PS+ members simply get a larger discount), while MS has done a few sales and the few they have done they could only be purchased by Gold Live subscribers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7mMp5PXKIk&feature=player_detailpage#t=67s

 

[smackababy]

it's not just change. it is change for the worse. there is not 1 thing out of this whole change that benefits the end user. if there is, i'd like to hear how you can spin it as a positive.

they are basically saying 'this is the new way, and it sucks for you as an end user, but that is the way it is going to be so deal with it."

For end-users, one can't say this will have any positive effects. For developers and publishers, the positives are clear. I agree it could be change for the worse. But PC software went this way a long time ago. It was only a matter of time before consoles figured it out as well.

This is an easy question. Go check out Live and see their sales, especially for games on demand. Never a sale and games staying at full MSRP for months after release.

Steam, sales out the wazoo. PC gamers don't get mad about not being able to trade in their Steam games because they paid what a rental cost or less would be. When you are purchasing a new game 3 months after release for $17, you accept the trade off. Hell tons of people don't buy anything more expensive than maybe $10 tops for a game with many games being purchased at the $5 level or in bundles making an individual games cost below $2.

You show me any kind of real history of MS doing sales, let alone sales like that.

At least Sony with the PSN have weekly sales and have decent ones for a console (new Tomb Raider was like $25-$30 for a week like 3 weeks ago), they offer $5 off some day 1 digital games. Sony at least is showing they grasp the concept of deals and how to implement them. They offer their sales to non PS+ members (PS+ members simply get a larger discount), while MS has done a few sales and the few they have done they could only be purchased by Gold Live subscribers.

Dark Souls. $9.99 on Xbox Live. There was even a thread about it. There are deals and sales, but I understand it is hard to see when you hate something so much it hurts.

 

[KaOTiK]

I love the pricing of Steam sales. Every time I see a great price on a newer game I get excited then realize it's a Steam sale. But I guess that also means if hell froze over, and MS started doing sales on par with Steam, then this change would be ok for you?

I think it would become A LOT more acceptable to people if they couldn't trade in their games because they can buy them for so damn cheap. The catch is, that can not happen on a console without the platform owner waiving or reducing their license fee on each game sold (I'm not sure how their license fee system is on digital games, it is obviously less for Arcade only games).

Thing is, MS could say they will do it and in fact do do it for the first year to look great. After they have amassed a large install base I can see them flipping the fucking you switch on and jacking prices up.

MS's history speaks so much of how they do things. In the end they are looking for anyway to screw you out of money. Granted, they are a company and companies exist to make money, but some are worse than others. MS being a publicly traded company and their history make me place absolutely zero trust in them. Valve on the other hand has a good history and is privately owned. There is a reason why I have 1000+ on Steam.

 

[KaOTiK]

Dark Souls. $9.99 on Xbox Live. There was even a thread about it. There are deals and sales, but I understand it is hard to see when you hate something so much it hurts.

Wow one sale, maybe one once in awhile. How about multiple sales on a weekly scale.

How does it feel to be the MS white knight on these forums?

 

[Skel]

I'd like to change the focus here just a bit and ask a question regarding used games. I'm definitely not a fan of this announcement at all. But what I'm curious about is why the hate is so over the top for what MS is doing here but if you go to the PC forums it's (mostly) nothing but love for Valve and Steam.

Why is it different?

Dude, you never bring up St. Steam in the console forums unless you're pointing out how awesome it is and how all the consoles should just use it.

 

[Skel]

Wow one sale, maybe one once in awhile. How about multiple sales on a weekly scale.

How does it feel to be the MS white knight on these forums?

I don't disagree that the Sales on St. Steam are much much better than most of the online venues, but I would point out that the Xbox has sales every week. Not to the extent that they are on St. Steam, but they do have them. In fact Tomb Raider is currently cheaper on Live than on Amazon. (29.99 for the Live and 34.99 on Amazon)

 

[KaOTiK]

I don't disagree that the Sales on St. Steam are much much better than most of the online venues, but I would point out that the Xbox has sales every week. Not to the extent that they are on St. Steam, but they do have them. In fact Tomb Raider is currently cheaper on Live than on Amazon. (29.99 for the Live and 34.99 on Amazon)

Fair enough. I never see anyone speak of MS sales. What about the games on demand section though? The full retail games that are just digital and not arcade titles?

 

[badb0y]

Microsoft : Solving problems no one has.

EDIT: The price of games must come down to $30-$40 because most of the people that trade in used games usually turn around and buy more games. If you stop that source of funding I doubt people will be willing to spend $60 every time a new games comes out.

 

[Skel]

Fair enough. I never see anyone speak of MS sales. What about the games on demand section though? The full retail games that are just digital and not arcade titles?

Not sure what you mean about the Games on Demand section, I was just pointing out they exist.. they do have sales on it, in fact there should be a "tile" on your game tab that says sales.. though it moves sometimes. One day it's on the main game tab, the next under "browse games".

I agree no one really mentions it, and they're not the best sales in the world. I would also point out when was the last time someone mentioned anything MS has done right?

 

[smackababy]

Microsoft : Solving problems no one has.

EDIT: The price of games must come down to $30-$40 because most of the people that trade in used games usually turn around and buy more games. If you stop that source of funding I doubt people will be willing to spend $60 every time a new games comes out.

The problem is there are already millions of poeple willing to spend $60 every time a new game comes out. MS (and publishers really) figure the number of people who will suck it up and pay full price (without trade in) will at least equal those that will just wait until the game is in the bargain bin. Personally, I think they are right. It will even out and they (the publishers) will get more money.

 

[exdeath]

"Publishers/EA/Activision" are earning themselves the same meaning as "RIAA"...

 

[ImpulsE69]

Now you're just sensationalizing. It has nothing to do with Steam fanbois. Steam is far from perfect, but when you can get AAA (by console standards) for $20+ under retail on PC before or somewhat soon after it's been released, it softens the blow considerably. Then you can get games that aren't even a year old at 50-90% off you can manage that tradeoff even more.

I've been in both scenes long enough to know that trend does not follow to console games. If they do it, more power to em, but it's more than just used games. It's the whole package. They are marketing it like a very locked down restricted PC. Really now, if you're paying that much for the console and games, wouldn't you want a bit more freedom to play it how you wish? On a PC (even in steam) you can mod your games, you can also not have your system connected every 24 hours just to play games because contrary to popular belief, Steam isn't where ALL the games are. Add to that if my internet is down, I might wanna play a console instead. Woops..can't do that.

For example: Your family can also play your games at your house! ..really? this is a plus that needed pointed out?

But but, you can't do that on the PC!!. No shit. That's why consoles are a different niche, except now you are "allowing" me to do that. Right.

The key to all of this is choice. They are taking that away.

I said it many years ago with the original Xbox that the whole "internet on consoles" thing was going to head down a bad path, and here we are. They want control and milking ability. Trying to compare what this is to Steam on a PC is just being blind. They are NOT the same thing.

On the plus side, if this goes like it sounds like it is, I have a feeling the hacks will be amazing.

Another thought is if it all backfires on MS, just some firmware/software updates can change it to something more positive...of course by that time the damage will have been done.

 

[KaOTiK]

Not sure what you mean about the Games on Demand section, I was just pointing out they exist.. they do have sales on it, in fact there should be a "tile" on your game tab that says sales.. though it moves sometimes. One day it's on the main game tab, the next under "browse games".

I agree no one really mentions it, and they're not the best sales in the world. I would also point out when was the last time someone mentioned anything MS has done right?

Ok, thanks for clarifying. Can't blame me fully then for not knowing. I mean all the forums I go to have a deals thread for PSN and the 3DS/Wii U eShop but I pretty much never see an MS deal thread. I could only conclude that it didn't exists or from what it sounds like while it does exists it is pretty pathetic and might as well not overall lol.

Just to clarify, I haven't owned a 360 in years. After my launch one died and was replaced 3 times by MS for RROD's I got rid of it after they sent me the last "fixed" one. I never had a console die on me before or after that and I still have my launch systems for many generations.

 

[purbeast0]

The problem is there are already millions of poeple willing to spend $60 every time a new game comes out. MS (and publishers really) figure the number of people who will suck it up and pay full price (without trade in) will at least equal those that will just wait until the game is in the bargain bin. Personally, I think they are right. It will even out and they (the publishers) will get more money.

it still doesn't answer the fact as to why publishers think they deserve to double dip when NO other market works this way.

 

[exdeath]

 

[exdeath]

Unlike Steam, not only will game prices not come down, they will go up and stay up forever.

I'm a actually going from angry to excited. I can't wait to see this backfire hard. May just be the crash we desperately need.

 

[Pheran]

Fair enough. I never see anyone speak of MS sales. What about the games on demand section though? The full retail games that are just digital and not arcade titles?

KaOTiK, I'm not defending MS's Xbox One DRM because I don't agree with it, but they do have weekly sales including Games on Demand. In fact, they have the new Tomb Raider on sale for $30 and Sleeping Dogs for $15 right now.

 

[Tweak155]

For end-users, one can't say this will have any positive effects. For developers and publishers, the positives are clear. I agree it could be change for the worse. But PC software went this way a long time ago. It was only a matter of time before consoles figured it out as well.

You focus on this but fail to see where you can't know this. Where you see a benefit for the developers, I can see a negative.

Whether it will be an overall positive or overall negative for developers remains to be seen, right now it can only be speculation. Eventually one will outweigh the other. It may be immediately apparent or it may take time.

 

[Alaa]

If they want to treat games as licenses then they ought to allow us to revoke a license and get our money back. Just because I buy a game digitally doesn't mean that I want to keep that game forever.

 

[smackababy]

it still doesn't answer the fact as to why publishers think they deserve to double dip when NO other market works this way.

Because they have the choice to either "double dip" or just disallow it altogether. They could easily just say "all console games are now considered software licenses; and unless a specific floating license is purchased at a much higher price (for rentals, let's say), all licenses are non transferable." It would be exactly like PC software.

But, they are forgoing said "doom" and allowing you to sell your license to authorized dealers (who would then pay a fee to reactivate said license for resale) or transfer your license to a friend with some stipulation.

Yes, it is different than what we have now. Yes, it could create a system in which all likely sales are new. And yes, it could have the effect Steam has had on the market and move more units by having sales after the initial rush of early adopters.

Now, is it likely the new CoD won't drop in price until 6+ months after release? No, because it doesn't have to. It doesn't go on sale on Steam either. People are still willing to purchase it at the original price pretty much until the new installment is announced. Will other games likely go on sale? I would assume so. The games will only bare the price the market values them at. If you don't think a game is worth $60, don't buy it at $60. Don't buy it and then complain about it.

 

[purbeast0]

Because they have the choice to either "double dip" or just disallow it altogether. They could easily just say "all console games are now considered software licenses; and unless a specific floating license is purchased at a much higher price (for rentals, let's say), all licenses are non transferable." It would be exactly like PC software.

But, they are forgoing said "doom" and allowing you to sell your license to authorized dealers (who would then pay a fee to reactivate said license for resale) or transfer your license to a friend with some stipulation.

Yes, it is different than what we have now. Yes, it could create a system in which all likely sales are new. And yes, it could have the effect Steam has had on the market and move more units by having sales after the initial rush of early adopters.

Now, is it likely the new CoD won't drop in price until 6+ months after release? No, because it doesn't have to. It doesn't go on sale on Steam either. People are still willing to purchase it at the original price pretty much until the new installment is announced. Will other games likely go on sale? I would assume so. The games will only bare the price the market values them at. If you don't think a game is worth $60, don't buy it at $60. Don't buy it and then complain about it.

you totally ignored the third option that they could have done - keep it the same since the current industry is the biggest money making machine it has ever been in the history of video games.

EDIT:

your post is actually doing EXACTLY what ms is trying to do with the whole "YOU CAN NOW PLAY GAMES WITH YOUR WHOLE FAMILY!!" as though that is some new, awesome feature, and we should be happy that they are allowing us to have this awesome "feature".

 

[exdeath]

And the developers still won't see the money. Bobby Kotick will just have bigger limos while the developers eat ramen because they were still outsourced for pennies on the dollar.

Activision and EA are as evil or worse than RIAA, leeching middle man stains in the toilet. I hope this is the catalyst that finally undoes them.